Carnivore Diet: Transforming Endurance Cycling | Plant Free MD Ep 116

hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is just eat meat and that's what you should do but if you're hiking or road tripping or stuck at work and you want something nutritious that is just meat and fat and possibly salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option I like this product not only because it is pure meat but also because I really want the carnivore Market to thrive as well the more we support meat only products the more people will make meat only products and this will bring this into the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to check out then take a look and use my discount code HTC to get 10 off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25 off total all right thanks guys hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the how to Carnival podcast we're joined Again by Dr Anthony chafee the plan free MD Anthony welcome guys thanks Simon good to see you good to see you too and we've also got Sean Seiko sakanovski here who is a South African endurance cyclist who does not consume carbohydrates on extremely long rides in hot South African heat of up to nine hours I believe so Sean welcome thank you very much and thank you for the opportunity to share my story our pleasure uh now what what got you into uh the keto diet particularly considering most cyclists or cyclists that I know are total carb addicts what what got you into this way of eating and living well um interestingly enough I in 2006 I founded a supplement company which um is still around today um and they they primarily um promote the the usage of carbohydrate [Music] um over my involvement with the company uh I think I had a natural predisposition to Veer away the consumption of carbohydrate back in 2011 well 2009 I I established that I was wheat intolerant and keeping intolerant um I battled All My Life um with with going to the toilet um something that people often talk about but uh for me you know being a regular and having a pain pain-free bowel movements was something that only sort of came I only came to realize was possible through the elimination of actually carbohydrate in general um but the the the the journey of um of of eliminating out of my diet was was basically came to a head when my father passed away from terrible terrible part of esophageal cancer which um literally wasted wasted a man who was he was a he was a high carb eater he promoted a healthier lifestyle but just he was a traditional I mean I come from a traditional Jewish background so there was the the the carbohydrates or your your bread your color your and now it's pesacher and his Passover they eat matzo they eat uh they eat um this this ladened flower um food um he he uh unfortunately came to this terrible this terrible cancer and um my both sides of my family my mother and uh and my My Father's Side they all suffered from cancer and they all suffered from uh um Cardiff in fact cardiovascular disease and I just had a light bulb moments I said it's I mean this is ridiculous this is really ridiculous it can't be this way and and I just realized it's in the food you keep on doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is is absolutely absurd it's absolutely absurd and uh and that's that was the journey it was 2013 and um I just I eliminated uh um you know all forms of of uh of clubs there was cops in the in the nut cells eating uh but not not in the on the sense of starches not in the sense of grains not in the sense of of fruits and [Music] um and my health started to to improve and interestingly enough I was born deaf um I was born with uh with a low immune system which which was um which caused my middle ear my ear obstacles not to vibrate and I had 11-year operations and full grommet Replacements and slowly but surely I've got my hearing back but I also do in the first two years of my life and and during my mother's pregnancy um my parents were not affluent and couldn't afford meat so the first two years of my um being in my mother's womb and uh and and uh sorry so I'd say two years and nine months so um there was no meeting I never had that nutrients of meat um so that I I honestly believe that that was one of the biggest causes of of my of my um low immune system and I do and I lived off gamma globulin injections from from the doctor um through my teens you know to to to try and strengthen my immune system um and uh when I when I eventually migrated out of my uh my family's house um I learned to I learned to to sort of eat for myself and my my beginning of my interest in nutrition was I became a bodybuilder at uh 20 20 years ago I did a year of bodybuilding and I couldn't grow I couldn't I couldn't get big and uh eventually was because I was under I was under um feeding myself I wasn't taking any calories and my obsession with nutrition and our stress Obsession began when the results came from wow is this what food can do to you and um so I've always had this interest in human performance and uh and food and and and I think I think the lesson that can come from this is is um self-discovery um I think nutrition once again nutritional science and sorry if I'm waffling too much you need to ask questions otherwise I'm just going to get disjointed um but I I think from the example that I can give to to to everyone is you don't need you you you you don't need actually anyone you don't need anyone to inspire you I think my inspiration came from myself um my my the education in which I received was self-taught um and also not being afraid to really just figure it out for myself I think people are so scared of I mean if you look at the lost the last three years you can see how absolutely programmed people are it's it's it's it's mind-boggling it's in fact it's yeah it's it's almost um I mean I I would say there were days when it affected me so much um and it's not the fact that I was locked up I loved being locked up um I can I can I can go for days in my in my my apartment um watching YouTube documentaries learning for myself um I can do push-ups sit-ups I can I I you know I don't need I don't need people to to to fulfill me and when I when I when I saw what what what happened to people it it depressed me it it it really affected me it um I just don't understand how people can be like that and but in hindsight if you look at what's happened since 1977 um it's nothing really changed it was just it was just a product or a result of what what has happened since this um the slow degradation of of of of nutrition in society [Music] well yeah I'm but there's obviously been a lot of programming over the decades as well and we don't always see it you know obviously when you're when you're in it you can't you can't really tell and there's a lot of people that that uh you know like your father and your parents they're like well this is how you remain healthy you eat low fat you eat a bunch of healthy carbs and vegetables and things like that and and um you know it's just a matter of of recognizing that and seeing the evidence for yourself and then just relaying that evidence and it's great that you've been able to do that and and and hopefully other people will learn from your example um how long have you been on this train of doing doing the low carb what will first of all what exactly is your diet now and how long have you been here well well I I like to do a lot of self-experimentation um and I've done some radical thinking you know as I looked it like was I've been involved in a certain industry for even in my bodybuilding days so I I just get on I shouldn't be allowed I shouldn't be around I shouldn't be allowed to be in a laboratory where the other like maybe bad things or perceived bad chemicals actually it's really slow stay people keep me away from that because I just I'm just so fascinated by by um the influence of of of of let's say nutrition the settlements so um my diet preferably is full Carnival um now with that being said I I love macadamia nut butter I really really do um but it affects my bowel movement and uh um I I used to really I mean I love English cucumber I absolutely love English cucumber in fact um because my my sweet tooth is so sensitive English cucumber is if I think to my youth English cucumber is as sweet as watermelon when I when I um eat it um and uh I stopped eating that because I it makes me feel completely um heavy it makes me feel gaseous like you cannot believe um and I just I've just come up I mean speaking you must understand that as an individual one of almost eight billion people I grew up constipated I grew up constipated so just to tell you a story when I went to Israel as a youngster my father he was a also a pharmacist gave me some Imodium which is a which is prevents diarrhea and I said Dad what's this so it says if you get if you get diarrhea so I said dead if I get diarrhea it's a blessing yeah that's a blessing yeah and uh um so for me um uh being regular or I should rather say being pain-free and having and being without having this permanent like wind Breaking Wind all the time is a sign of being healthy for me and when if I if I if I incorporate any form of plant food and this is just me and this is once again why I say I don't think science and nutrition should be in the same sentence because there is none um because we science puts and and and I don't think medicine and new science should be in the same sentence either because there is none and um there might be a smooth but unfortunately there's a there's a balances a lot of non-science here and there's a lot of science there but it's it it there is none you know um and that's just my opinion in my experience and uh um and I think maybe if I'm lucky I'll be around for another 20 30 years and uh um and uh but that's that's the journey that I'm on however just getting back to to what I was saying um you the the plants fruits that that there I don't think I just don't think sorry it's just I I have so many uh I have so many thoughts when they come into my to my my mind and to sort of narrow it down into like a choke to get the the right pattern that I want um I just don't we we are such a primitive unevolved specie the humans we are so programmed um and that's the problem so you we don't ask questions we take everything that the priest the rabbi the Imam says the doctor says so you go to a doctor and he says to you say look for United he says names have five five five cups of fruit and vegetables a day and all you do is this and he says that you must you know you you go you sorry you first you first go to the doctor I'm not feeling well what's wrong sore throat um I feel a little you know if you're lucky he'll he'll tell you how you must eat and then he will prescribe the the typical fruits and vegetables in a cup you know firstly um and then and then you and you must take this uh whatever it is and you just uh yes I can um so if that's that that in itself is just be programmed there is somebody who was smarter than us that came along and said right this PC is you know we can just tell them what to do and they'll do it they'll lap it up okay we'll lap it up so getting back to you to to me I aren't if it works for me I will do it if it doesn't work for me I won't I'm just I'm not going to do it um I won't push my agenda on you and I I just don't don't do it to me um I I you must you must be free um I believe I believe completely in Freedom um and I believe in the right to to choose um and I don't believe in imposing my my I have been polarizing polarizing in the past I I have been very um uh uh wrapped a bracer with regards to My Views and my opinions but I've learned to to temper it um I I would like and why I do what I do which I'm sure we'll come to later is because I want to I want people to ask questions that's all I want I want people to ask questions I don't want people to slap it up I want people to ask questions why does this why can this this bloke do what he does with and you know how can you do it so let's Sean let's let's get into it tell us about what you do tell us about this there's extreme fits of endurance Okay so okay I think I think just to to understand it I never ever set out to do what I I did um I work I I I've been involved many businesses and I've been isolated a lot because a lot of my the stuff I did was surround myself around social media and I I lived in a bubble um I kind of still live in a bubble but I live in a more sort of a uh I've started to brick for bubble in certain areas and it pops and I see things and and I thought I started to ask questions um and so I I have never ever been an endurance person I've always been a sort of a fast twitch orientated muscle person I was a ballet dancer I've done Combat Sports um I um when I when I started cycling I lit I just did time trials really and and and my maximum distance was 40 kilometers and um I used to make a joke at 41 kilometers my wheels fall off uh you know for for me to to eventually for me to do a 100 kilometer ride was like maybe once a year I might go and do 100 kilometer ride and um but in 2018 um I I went to I went to France and I did I did a grand funder which was a 178 kilometers of many many mountain passes and and I just kind of enjoyed it but what I did notice is that the the food that I ingested was I worked it out I I I did eaten I wasn't I wasn't I didn't ever comprehend the fact that you could do this without refueling but I I had six 691 calories on on on on the ride and um the one the the one of the reasons why I ate was because amongst one of the stocks and they were giving out all these sports gels and all these uh there was fruit and all the there was bread and everything one of the because it was a big event um there was a stand that was giving salami uh uh salami pieces and I just thought how or how um it was completely like bizarre so when I you know I ate that just for the you know for the joy of eating something which was just completely out of out of uh out of place in amongst all of this sugar Fest and uh but what dawned on me was the the the the the the the Indonesian I was writing the paralympian but he was he needed Coke he bonked all the time um and and uh his he he just he was completely the energy not to take away from his physical abilities and of course he had he did to have a disability but um he he he just couldn't I was astonished that I was fine I was writing the same the same exactly with him side by side and here was a a person that just completely um don't but what I did notice is that I really enjoyed spending an entire day um on the bike in in the saddle um I came back to Cape Town and then I just started I just started doing more and more rides that that started going into three hours started going to four hours and um so what I started to do was I started to ride in in circles it sounds really bizarre but that's that's what I did I found a four kilometer Loop and I just started riding around then still running 100 kilometers every single day and I never ever felt like I needed food or energy and I one of the reasons for also using that one Loop um was because it was close to home so should I get hypoglycemic I was I was I was I think was about six or seven kilometers away from home and I could easily just come back and uh and uh um um but I thought myself well how how far can this actually go you know so um in 2019 um the Jordanian the Jordanian tourism board invited me to go to Jordan to do a race um they were they were they were helping put the promotion of a race that ran from the Dead Sea to the the Red Sea and um and I took my brother-in-law along with me and no I I hadn't I hadn't competed in any events oh sure 10 10 years and uh I I honestly I I never I don't ride with anyone I really do not ride with anyone I I don't have anyone really to measure my um my ability with really anymore I kind of can look at somebody else's data I know I know about power um I know about average speeds and so on and so forth so I just I just said to my brother-in-law who second seconded me in the race which was 198 kilometers I said look my goal for this ride is to not eat I want to I want to finish 198 kilometers um and I think by that stage it was I think 198 was one of the longest rides I'd ever done and uh I I just went I was just so I think the energy in the beginning of the race just got me so excited and and I broke away for about 40 kilometers right from the word go and I remember my power output was I think around about 300 and 19 Watts which is not Pro standard but it was it was well above Market it was not well above but it was above slightly above my FTP and uh and I did that for I think almost um almost 90 minutes and um and I felt fine afterwards because eventually the the group the report me and I remained with him and then the only problem I had was I was going to finish with a group of ambassadors behind me but by that stage from the first the first time Checker there were 15 minutes back and by the second time check they they were only um they were over an hour and a half back so and but also I thought there were 15 minutes back so I sent my vehicle to go and just get a time check and I only had a half a half a bottle of water left and I'm riding through the bloody Jordanian desert and and often our lady they Rock up and I was I just decided Well I don't I'm not going to die of dehydration here so I'm just going to keep going you know so um I I I I finished a credible fifth overall on on the day but what was surprising what to my to that my absolutes I was absolutely elated I was not angry at the end of the ride I didn't four thousand three hundred four thousand 500 calories and the only time I ate was a handful of Keto nuts um which was just basically a macadamia nuts and uh I think there was a beacon nuts in there um at the hotel two hours after I'd finished I'd really packed my bike away and I was just completely bewildered by the fact I've ridden so hard such a long distance and I was fine I was not hungry yeah so that was that was the first kind of this is incredible so now I'm thinking to myself how far can this actually go so I came back I came back to South Africa and I just it was just I felt like I had a new toy and I just started writing writing writing writing writing and uh and of course um the uh the social experiments it's it's hit the world and we were locked down for I think I think in South Africa we were locked down for like three months or four months and uh I didn't have an indoor trainer at that stage there um three days later when acquaintance came and gave me a as a gift a set of rollers which are are a device which you use on in track cycling to warm up so you put the bike on these rollers and your bike create centrifugal force and you can you balance your ride and it's generally people generally use rollers for for um warming up 45 minutes uh before before an event and um so I I was locked up no one really you could just go and buy groceries and you can't write you weren't allowed to ride in the road um so I just started running on these rollers and first it was 45 minutes you know then it was an hour it was two hours and then I was riding three hours because you know you've got it you've got a balance you've got to concentrate um because it's you can't you can't lose your focus because you just slide off um you really have to focus you it's it's not something where you can stand really stand on and relax you've got to keep peddling otherwise you'll fall over so um I just started in three hours then I built it up to four and I started in six hours and then a friend of mine um wanted to do a promotion to give give back to people who've helped out in the in the issue that we were facing and I decided to see how far I could go for nine hours and there was the goal was to ride for nine hours which I I did uh the reason why I say uh the the the event afforded me the opportunity to have witnesses to see that I'm not eating and I'd already done a nine hour ride in my flat um in in that period of time that I I had the roller rollers I wrote 4 000 kilometers on on rollers and the reason why I couldn't the reason why I I I I could um I could equate that was because the power meter I was generating the power so the power meter was that was uh was giving the information to the indoor platform which would work that up according to weight and you travel on this indoor program called zwift and and and uh and I rode four thousand kilometers on on a set of rollers over that period of time so I wrote 300 uh 370 odd kilometers for this this event um on on the rollers and uh the the coffee machine was broken I remember the coffee machine was broken in I went to an office block and I rode in somebody's offices to do so I had Witnesses you know to see that I wasn't eating um because anyone can really go out and say yeah I don't eat so I can also do that I ride 400 kilometers and I don't need you just have to say that I mean how do you prove that um so you need Witnesses of course you know you need um and to even in the uh the the racer didn't in Jordan the the commissares the referees said the others I didn't like you know he there was just no we didn't see him eat I mean because when the when the when the group comes they call their vehicles and you can see them giving the gels and giving their sugar water and I'm just riding along watching all of this go down you know and they're writing philosophany you know they don't they don't uh they aren't performing better than iron you know it was almost it was it was actually like you know I actually got amused and interestingly enough I took two other athletes with me uh in 2021 one is my partner and she became ketogenic um uh a a a year a little over a year prior to that she um she wrote a faster time than I did in my first event okay she wrote a fourth time and I okay we did have a Tailwind but on the paper she wrote a fast time she didn't have any fuel she wrote 198 kilometers yeah wow and she won her category and she beat some of the elite men and the the they it was quite amusing because they all like you know she's she's a very attractive young lady and and they all came to her help you can help you you know like you know you can and eventually she was like at 150 kilometers she was passing those Oaks that were so like for a Bravado and you know and those guys would just throw packing down the sugar water yeah we took a we took the gentleman with us um a really nice guys uh an Italian bloke and and uh he couldn't believe it he couldn't believe it because he was he was he was getting dropped you know I had to push them both you know um eventually at one stage you know I was a good I'm a good teammate um but he could he just kept on saying it's unbelievable he's never ever seen it before unbelievable because he experienced low blood sugar and a few times during that that that that that part of exercise and he actually became ketogenic after that wow he could he could not believe it no Sean on me on these days when you're doing these really long rides are you just eating one big meal at night time or what and what exactly are you eating I I really do damage myself with what I do because it's not easy doing what I do and with regards to my meals um I've let there be so one of the I've just finished a kind of like a an ex an experiment with some full fat creamy double cream yogurt which stated it's got stabilizers in it but destabilizers to my understanding are of um plant nature or plants they're fillers or whatever and if they have affected me like it cannot believe as Believers if I was eating food um vegetables and fruits wind gas bloatedness bad bowel action and the reason why I bring this up is because I do a lot of experimentation I will add that I will add food food types to my diet just to kind of figure out I might have to get up and put the lights on because I said we're getting some overcast weather um but I I my main meal before I if I want to go and perform well I will have a little load of butter butter for me is it's like high octane fuel eggs um depending on the my intention if I'm gonna ride for six hours I'll have between six to seven eggs look it's like not even 600 calories six eggs um but I think the the eggs the better I also have full cream uh also some food actual cream um not always but I I find that's a lovely fuel source but it's 100 green cream it's not there's no carbs in it chocolate assault yeses um like ridiculous amounts so I I go through grinders I think every two three days I'm I'm filling up a uh like a big Grinder like this I'm I don't I don't measure I just I just do this when I say again in India you put it into water and then drink it or how you I I put it in my water bottles I put it in my eggs I put it everywhere um I eat raw meat um so I just I just poured all of the raw meat and I dab that I dab it in the raw meat and uh and you know I I eat it like that um and then uh I like to use a raw whey protein a very uh I get to know sweetness no no um I use RAW Protein and um yeah and that's and that's and that's it and for me for me it's nutrients for me it's I don't eat for taste I eat for I know this is energy and I know there's good it's nutrient dense and that's what I eat for um I don't go out I don't frequent restaurants uh if I do it's a steakhouse um I know the steak just I go to one Steakhouse because I know that they're going to give me good meat and I know there's no basting sauces with sugars it's it's uh it's it's just steak um so that's that's what I eat there's nothing complicated about what I do it's the same sort of thing a line goes out there he doesn't go well what am I going to eat today I feel like I'm gonna have some baths you know what rabbit will be good today uh nah nah actually we had rabbits last night let's have the you know they go out there and they get what they can get um and and and and I think I think oh I'm terrible at a conversation because we've used food we've used food as entertainment you know we don't realize that food is food is not to be it's not entertainment food is is merely there to sustain life it's merely there to sustain life and it's it's not something we're supposed to have every single day it's it's it's uh we're not designed um you know our digestive systems as well it's like We complain about worn out elbows and wrists and knees what about your digestive system you know that's not that's not designed to be attacked every single day five small meals a day you came up with that nonsense you know that's just nonsense it really is so um yes so I think at the end of the day I I I formulated my ideas what works for me or I've applied my ideas into into practice I should rather say and they work for me and um and that's because I'm a Loner uh I don't and I I'm an excellent learner I don't really subscribe to Vanessa's at all um I have some very far far out theories and ideas um so yeah but I mean look I mean the results speak to themselves you know and people can say that's all they want it's like no you can't do distance I get so many people saying that you you can't do what you do uh either way you do it you have to be car you have to do that I mean that's been proven false in a number of different studies I know you're affiliated with uh with the notes foundation and Professor has shown this conclusively and he was and he was the guy telling people for 30 years no no you have to have carbs you have to have carbs and now he's going oh gosh guys I was wrong and you know I've done it and like and and the science is there to support it well um so so that that also you know I what happened to to notes um was absolutely and absolutely disgusting how here isn't here's a man that admits I'm wrong I'm sorry I'm wrong I admit he has he took accountability he he admitted it takes it takes a very rare individual to admit fault even Carl Sagan says that science must be approached with the atmos skepticism and the most open mind to not discount anything okay and it's what happened to and I watched that case I watched what happened I know some of the people that just turned their back on him and I grew up in a generation where we were made to be made aware of what happens when authoritarianism authoritarian bodies dictatorships people who want to control other people I was I I I've been made aware and so I'm of the person that can't be quite I refuse to be quiet and also my life is I've got nothing so you can come and see me you're gonna get nothing really I have got nothing my bikes given to me Partnerships I have zero and my I've made my life that way I and it's not like I set out to be that way I'm a capitalist I I I I I I I like there's some things which I like um but I'm I can't be quiet what's happening to what's happening to people is is I can't I can't be quiet I'm not like you I'm not a philanthropist I'm not a humanitarian I'm a I'm a moody person I will not be quiet I just you can't because if you are quiet 1959 to 1945 will just happen all over again and if you think I'm wrong go and look at history yeah if you think I'm wrong go and look at history human beings have the shortest memory in the entire universe we cannot look further than our cell phones from our mobile devices from yesterday we've to get we forget everything but the problem is there are people who with with with malevolent um malevolent intentions um ill intentions towards other people that want to control us and manipulate us and I believe that no yeah no Sean you're a you're a deep thinker um can I always read one of your Instagram captions um because it's pretty pretty it's out there it's almost spiritual most often when I ride especially when I go deeper into the state of ketosis things seem to to be more Vivid lucid and at the same time I feel like I am transcending space and time and for a moment the ash felt that I travel over seems like an endless Cosmic body yeah and uh that's that's pretty out there but at the same time I don't think anyone who's done particularly ketosis and then hard training and exercise can relate to that yeah I I think nothing comes from you know there's an old fashioned saying everybody uses nothing comes from aesthetic from a from aesthetic Comfort you've got it you've got a guard or your comfort zone um the some of the greatest minds of our of our time I mean Pythagoras wouldn't allow his students to come into His lectures without them being fasted um yeah so Dr chafee that is up Anthony that's up your alley yeah yeah um the uh the the person who wrote the um the Kabbalah uh the the Jewish mysticism uh there were states he lived off a berry but he was primarily fasted when he wrote the the Cabela which is which is one of the most sacred mystical Jewish Doctrine doctrines um it uh all the great religions all the great religions of our time whether you whether you believe that they are just basically talking about um extraterrestrials or not um they all they may differ on politics and or religious politics and various things but they will they will agree on one thing and that's fasting there is fasting in every major religion uh Western Islam Judaism and Christianity in Christendom um the the Knight template they they they were they were almost ketogenic if the the history some of the history records of the Knights Templar they they they implemented Okay small amounts of meat um they weren't but they they were there were times when they restricted food food intake um and and they drank they drank wine in a way that it was almost medicinal it was almost um uh only read one but the the the the the the the the the the way it was mentioned there was obviously some reason for it um and that is it it I I believe that we are we are this vessel and in order to trigger certain mechanisms we we use chemicals the drugs work on us but we have this internal mechanism that creates our own chemical um Clockwork that is triggered via VIA a lack of and that is the lack of food we have this I think we have this incredible vessel um and only if 99 of the world could happen to death can you imagine how society would be can you imagine the homeless people unfortunately we have homeless people specifically in South Africa not wanting bread eliminating carbs they would become ketogenic they wouldn't be they wouldn't be hungry enough and desperate enough to pause Prime to because they are so hungry they need to they it it leads to to to to bad actions hunger and is the most debilitating um a feeling a human can feel it's scary when somebody goes into hypoglycemia it's terrible it would it would change society if you had to change the way people function but we are programmed to be handy we have nutritional bodies which tell us this is what you should have it's carbohydrate um it's your right to have a lunch hour it's you're right you must have lunch okay yeah and you know um we all it is is just feeding it's feeding one industry to another industry that's what it is it's just a conveyor belt of giving to to one to another um 600 100 percent I grew up in a pharmacy I at the age of 13 I got my last two end pocket money a week and my father said to me this is your shift from one to six and from from one in the afternoon to six in the evening you and I work at the chemist I mean I learned about medicine from a young age um I learned about upselling from a young age and and uh and I worked in you know in in in pharmacy you know do you know what's interesting and and likewise for today we go in we buy it we we buy a product we just put it in our trolley or in our basket we never pick it up and go what's actually in here everybody does nobody does yeah well when you talk to me you start pointing out that there's all these different ingredients on there and they start looking at them then they they start getting their mind blown because I always tell that about this more about this well just look at the ingredients you know if it says it's all then don't get it and and then or people uh you know we'll get something like oh look this is a carnival thing because it you know has some meat in it and it'll just like look at the ingredients and it's just a laundry list of of nonsense and and you know unpronounceable chemical names and things like that like well there's all these things you don't really want you know the second ingredient is sugar and the next one wheat so you know maybe maybe you don't want those and and um and then you start pointing that out like I had no idea they just put all this crap in there and it's like yeah basically anything you don't cook is going to have sugar in it you're gonna put something in it and well it's it's it's it's it's 100 what you're saying and when we came back from um not Dubai when we came back from from Jordan we stopped off in in Qatar uh and uh we went to we were looking forward to something to snack and the same old same old walked entire if it's Dubai or or Doha it's um just walk and walk walk fine trying to find a place which which resembles some sort of raw ingredient that you can eat and we came up we came past and you can see it keto restaurant Quito restaurant and there's no ways I can't believe it I looked at my at my girlfriend I said let's let's let's just go come on listen and we're looking and we're looking in the ingredients and we're looking and we're looking and there was nothing that they served which was Kita I'm not joking they're I'm not called the manager over I had to ask so I said but there's nothing here it was bread it was and it wasn't it wasn't um like gluten-free you know I don't know I think there was was gluten-free paper because there was the other ingredients which is carbs but it was there was nothing there was absolutely nothing and that's the problem we can literally package something call it what we want and it must be that it must be there I mean I've seen keto bars that have got proper sugar sucrose um you know um proper success in this and I also I said but it's not keto so no it is because it's got less than the 50 Grand you know if you work it I said no but it's it doesn't matter how much you can have one one gram of success you know it's the worst sugar ever yeah so um people just have no they have no idea no sorry I was just I was gonna say I guess a stick keto too because that's less than 50 50 grams of of carbs right and so yeah yeah just like no it's it's like you know if you go into the I said you know you get a green list an orange list and a red list you can just see that like the number one thing on the red list is sugar sucrose sugar how can you call it keto you know yeah it's it's it's like it's it's unbelievable you know so if you you know you get you to get different schools because I thought they say name is capability 25 grams a day keep below 50 grams a day of carbohydrate of total carbs but the one thing they all agree on is that the number one sugar yeah yeah that's crazy yeah I was gonna say too um you know you were talking about all these guys refueling um you're eating by all the the sugar gels and all that sort of stuff which is a very common thing for people to do especially athletes and endurance athletes um but you don't really feel at all and that's one thing that you know people will ask me is so what what do you refuel with what you refuel with and to me I wouldn't reveal with anything but had have you come across that have people spoken you I mean I guess you eat you eat the butter and things like that if you were to read if you were to suggest someone would just be just like just have a stick of butter and just you know Chow on that um so so um well I've done I do I do like kind of um you know what my body would want my predisposition what what I'd naturally be adorned is a when when I have bunked many times when I say Bond it means I've gone through low energy and I feel like I need to eat but what happens is I I calm down I don't panic because the average person would think holy I need sugar it's it's just a game over so it's almost as if I when it first started happening I I had to put a um I had to sort of take the leap of faith that's saying okay Sean calm down calm down soft pedal and then 10 minutes later it's like it's like it's like the engine starts to kick in kick back in and it's all it's almost as if people a lot a lot of discussion around car burners once you bonky bonked it's game over um but so many times I have I'm gonna say Bonk and I just ride through it it's like it's like I ride through it but what do I eat um I I have I have eaten probably on now out of 730 rides I have eaten on 20 of those rides I've worked I've worked up the other lot at the beginning of this year so I suffer from chronic fatigue from I actually said okay you're gonna sound really crazy now I I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia in 2017. wow yeah I got my first I got my first part of of a training syndrome in 1998. um I used to do to the extent the intensity of exercise I used to do 660 push-ups and 880 setups in one hour oh what it worked it up 660 660 push-ups and 880 sit-ups in one hour so 660 push-ups is that uh that's more than 600 and that's a combination of white and diamond is that like it's like 10 per minute yeah 60 Minutes it knows even I think it's even more than that yeah um and I used to get welts in my palms and I used to use my Knuckles and then I used to get like um calluses on my on my coccyx area uh I'll I I was really strong in those days um in 1998 and then one day and and I had a rule I had a rule that there was 20 files in the day and I had 25 hours and they'd do my set I seduced the point of vomiting one day I came back from work and my bed wasn't even made with sheets was just mattress and a bombed and for two weeks I couldn't do anything I was and that was my first kind of over trainings kind of symptoms I remember there was nothing there was absolutely nothing exhausted and then in 2009 I got Epstein-Barr virus with uh with infectious mononucleosis and uh and and uh proper proper I was I couldn't believe I actually was diagnosed with this you know like me kind of vibe and I was really in a bad way and then I I got over that and I ended up winning up provincial time trial championships um after coming back from that um and then when I started my business in 2014 I was awake uh there's nowhere to a lie uh I was awake for 20 hours a day and I was on social media I used to sleep two hours in the afternoon two hours in the morning um because my market my main Mark was actually Australia so I knew that I had to be awake for the Australian Market and uh and then and then I got I got really ill in 2014 uh sorry um I got it before that I was I my father lost his business and that was one of the reasons why I also he the stress the stress also basically killed him but we would he he couldn't afford to keep in him in hospital so my siblings we we he he wanted to die at home well he had no choice really but we nursed him for six weeks and I worked during the day and I had the eight hour shift with him at night because he had a he had a drain coming out of his um out of his land that permanently trained with this terrible infectious like mucus Gunk that came so I had to carry him into the toilet we need to go the toilets and he had to be medicated all the time and so I never slept on I never slept for six weeks really yeah and uh and that burned me out and then um I've got another and then with the business I would burn out then and then I lost my business in 2017 owing to a bad partner and uh um that's when I that just destroyed me um as well anyway so um so so what happens with my how I manage it well the diet has been amazing I really believe that the wholeheartedly and I do crash I I the the days where like 48 hours I had a really bad start of the year it was probably at the worst I've I've had it because I I couldn't perform like I did last year last year I put so much into my physical my I was so passionate about showing that right you don't need carbohydrates to do anything really okay but this whole misnoma that you need carbohydrates to form at great intensities that's also nonsense for this the first six months of last year and you can go into my Strava and the rides I've done I am burning almost a thousand calories an hour for six hours down and there are there it is that you can and I put not just the Strava data I put the stages cycling data there and uh and the morph no one no one no one sees that I mean people they just give you Kudos but no one reads the captions really nobody looks at the data nobody looks and and when I say zero refueling required so if I'm burning a thousand that's what the pros are burning at full gas stages a thousand to between 900 to 1100 calories an hour I'm a 50 year old male who is I'm not I'm not even taking any food forget it I'm not taking food going on the on the age thing perhaps a final question um you know you're 50 years old now how's your how's your performance tracking relative to your younger years well it's a unfair um thing to sort of comment on because I've never ever done endurance until the last real five years of my life okay um so I've always been a like I said I've always been a a a a fast twitch muscle fiber person um and but I think the only I honestly believe that carbohydrates stifled me and my progress in in life it really did it prevented me from performing at the highest level it prevented me from performing at the highest level I recall when I used to ride when I was 16 16 years old um I would be twenty Cloud 20K is from home and I could smell the macaroni and cheese that we're going to eat at night I could smell it I remember in those days there was no cell phones no um foods that we could like quickly quickly eat you know that's that's a long time ago I remember lying in the long grass outside of Cape Town because I was scared you know it was like an unsafe area I was hiding away and I remember pulling out the long grass and sucking the the the roots I was so desperate wow I was so desperate I would never consider like I said before I'd never consider riding longer than 40 kilometers I I had a I've got I had a loop the loop from from my house to the top top where I used it was 43 kilometers okay but going for you know going London that was like just like I just called that thought yeah not on and the reason for that being as honestly is because the food creates an energy the energy will give you ultimate purpose if you're if you're giving your food sorry if you're giving your body bad energy your body's not going to really want to do things how does how does how does an individual go from she's going 45 40 45 kilometers yeah that's like my limit and I'm happy with that where I'm now at a point where I'll go go out and I'm not content if I haven't got 110 K's on my on my uh on my device I only warm up after three hours hmm yeah people can ride up I'm riding the same same road I mean we've got some beautiful scenery in Cape Town I'm riding in the same road over and over and over again and there's many reasons why I do that but wow I should be getting old I should be getting slower I shouldn't be you know it is the energy that because I really believe my I'm giving my body what I believe to be what it's supposed to be given you know people people will say well it's not that it's not and it's not isolated to me I've got a a a German Swiss girl who there's no relation there's no we've we've never ever met before she became kids so it works for her you know um yeah I think what about what about the what about the Bushmen the Bushman who go and hunt for eight hours oh yeah yeah if there's nothing there's nothing we speak about macronutrients in the Tour de France they used to eat steak and meat they used to package meat and eat that but we forget about that why because somebody figured well let's give these guys sugar do not I'll tell you what cycling is the some of the most it's the the most addictive quality cyclists have some of the most um their abuse recreational narcotics you just have to go and read the book by Paul kimmich called the Rough Rider and if they aren't this inhaling of gels it's not about feeding your energy it's about feeding our dick it's about video addiction it's how how you know you then you've got people telling you that there's there's a thousand papers telling you that you perform better on carbohydrates so you need carbs for a coffee ride do you yeah yeah you know understand what I'm trying to say so you need that croissant for a copyright yeah get out of your mates laughing joking as you ride stopping having a croissant running back tell me have these guys figured it out that your body can only store so much glycogen that it's a new message once it's set to once your muscle was saturated once you're a little bit saturated let's stop eating it no just keep on eating it they're not feeding the energy they're feeding their addiction and tell me I'm wrong tell me I'm wrong well you know in previous I've been prove it a million times I'm right yeah yeah well also I mean just which is with your I mean like 730 rides now and you've only done plenty of them with eating and when you were eating you're eating like you know butter and meat so you certainly don't need carbs and that's you know that is something that we are talking about chemistry in our undergraduate degree not everyone takes biochemistry but um a lot of people did and doctors in America are supposed to it's part of the prerequisites for medical school and and yet they are some of the leading people saying no no you have to have carbs it doesn't work like that well think back to your undergraduate degree in Biochemistry and your biochemistry when you stop eating carbohydrates for 24 hours you start making carbohydrates you start making liver glycogen muscle glycogen and ketones and you keep doing that doing that until you run out of fat and and then we run out of fat you die or you actually run on your your muscles and you start breaking that down once you run out of all tissue you die but it takes so it takes a long long time to to run out of your fat cell fat stores and you know like you're saying putting out you know around a thousand uh kilocalories per hour is you know professional cyclists League okay so not many people are doing that and so even even high level endurance athletes like that you know maybe around where you're you're look you can maximize who doesn't have 6 000 calories available of fat in their body I mean I mean there are probably some people that are on the verge of death that are so emaciated and starving so that's it you know so I don't care what sort of endurance race you're doing like you have enough and it doesn't matter how skinny you are unless you're like actually truly emaciated anyone who's healthy and it has a has a healthy level of low lean body fat you will you will have enough energy without eating and I mean it's nice to have numbers on that because if you're putting out a thousand an hour and you're going for six hours or 12 hours well you know 12 000 calories like might definitely have more more than that I definitely have more than that me too well well one I also believe that my muscles is a source of energy I also believe um and and the one thing that that I know that doesn't affect me is my fatigue levels when I am fatigued I I I I feel that my body does want to produce the energy or what it does is it stops my body from producing the energy so it's almost like a parasympathetic nervous response so regardless of what fuel you have it's you it switches off the mechanism it says no you've done you've done too much so I I've I've had to learn to kind of cool it down um because what I call it when I'm metabolically fit my maximum my maximum burn rate is six is actually six thousand although I've done six thousand seven hundred um which was incredible and I do believe I can go a further distance I've just got to tape it taper It Off but I really and I really hurt myself when I got out there um I remember I did three big rides two two weeks or two and a half weeks ago and my eyes were like blood red from the one the one right I I don't know I don't know why that happened but I mean I I literally felt like I was I was I was pushing myself so hard well because of the the cumulative training that I'd done it was you know the last ride I just because I I just I'm so passionate about getting that information out plus you know just one person it's the one person if they if they can say you know what this is I've got to try this I've got to try this if one person just wait for me then then you know one person um Sean where can people find you where can people learn more about your stuff um I have a website um swansecco.com um I'm on Instagram I'm on I'm on Twitter um be wary my Twitter is um it's not like my Instagram um it's I I have I have some yeah I'm very passionate I'm very passionate about politics really I can't imagine it okay um uh and there are um I also believe wholeheartedly that in a in a universe with it in the known universe where I believe there's they understand it's over 700 quintillion planets that we are probably the zoo of the universe you know either and the uh I I'm a big believer in I think you're the you're the Prime lion at the moment they're watching this madman ride 6 000 calories worth without eating look I mean I don't do it all the time yeah just yeah I am a human being and I do suffer and sometimes I've also got a scoliosis that I mean that I I sometimes it takes me on my back just goes seizes it and I and I I I I can't get up and it takes me like two hours to get up now I mean I really do damage myself yeah but I I'm I I it's not enjoyable in it but I I I kind of lived you know I no excuses it's kind of and it's not I do complain I mean I I I I'm not a I'm not a I'm not this the Sebastian of I just like I want to be like I'm I'm a human being I hurt I have issues I have my own fears anxieties um I'm just I'm just a human being I'm I I just I just wanted to find out for myself and I want people to ask questions well it's a it's a cool Mission um and I think you're going to inspire you are inspiring a lot of insurance athletes and people in general um so Sean thank you so much for joining Anthony and I today um it was a really great chat and we really appreciate your time and and everything like I I really appreciate you guys reaching out to me and giving me the opportunity and yeah and if one person can uh one person yeah well it's awesome yeah well thank you very much man I think I think this this is a very important uh you know piece of evidence for people because a lot of people are hesitant to try a keto or carnivore because they're like well what about endurance athletes how do I re-feed what I do all about these things and I you know I tell them from my experience I tell them from the different studies that I know about uh but it's great to see someone like yourself who's really doing something relatively you know just putting out just tons and tons of effort and not and on on just the fuel that you have already available in your body which on paper in the biochemistry textbooks is what is supposed to happen but you know it really matters what happens in the real world as well so it's great to see you as an example for that for others yeah well thank you very thank you very very much I really I really do appreciate that thank you thank you