Dr. Anthony Chaffee interviews Lee (known online as Kent Carnivore), who shares his remarkable journey from severe ulcerative colitis to complete colon removal and eventual recovery through a carnivore diet. Lee details how following standard medical advice for inflammatory bowel disease - including high-fiber, plant-based foods and various medications - led to his entire colon becoming riddled with disease and requiring surgical removal in his twenties. Living with a stoma bag while continuing to eat plants caused ongoing digestive issues, depression, and suicidal thoughts.
The conversation reveals how Lee's discovery of Michaela Peterson's carnivore testimonial became a turning point. Within 21 days of eating only beef, butter, bacon, and eggs, his depression completely lifted, and his stoma function dramatically improved. The episode provides unique insights into how plant fiber appears in the stoma bag completely undigested, while meat is fully liquefied and absorbed. Lee explains how his autoimmune condition and mental health issues resolved when he eliminated all plant foods, challenging conventional wisdom about fiber, gut health, and the microbiome's role in overall wellness.
Key Takeaways
- Plant fiber remains completely undigested and causes mechanical irritation - Lee could see whole pieces of vegetables, seeds, and fiber in his stoma bag hours after eating, while meat was completely liquefied and absorbed
- Carnivore diet eliminates stoma complications within weeks - switching to only beef, butter, bacon and eggs made stoma management effortless and eliminated the painful obstructions caused by fibrous plant matter
- Mental health dramatically improves on carnivore diet - Lee's severe depression and suicidal thoughts completely resolved by day 21 of eating only animal products, along with improvements in energy, skin, and acid reflux
- Autoimmune flares may be triggered by plant toxins rather than the body attacking itself - symptoms return immediately when plant foods are reintroduced, suggesting external triggers rather than true autoimmunity
- Medical advice to eat high-fiber foods accelerated colon destruction - following standard IBD dietary recommendations of colorful plant foods and whole grains led to complete colon removal within 5 years of diagnosis
- Hospitals eliminate fiber during recovery because it causes obstructions - post-surgery patients are given white bread, Pringles, and pure meat to prevent blockages, contradicting standard dietary advice
- Kent Carnivore's Ulcerative Colitis Journey and Colon Removal Story
- Medical Treatment Failures - High Fiber Diet and Steroid Medications for IBD
- Emergency Surgery and Living with a Colostomy Bag
- Post-Surgery Depression and Mental Health Crisis
- Discovering Carnivore Diet Through Mikhaila Peterson's Story
- Carnivore Diet Benefits for Colostomy Bag Management and Digestion
- Rethinking Autoimmune Disease Theory - Plant Toxins vs Self-Attack
This is an auto-generated transcript from YouTube and may contain errors or inaccuracies.
welcome to the plant-free MD podcast with Dr Anthony chaffy where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically hello everyone thank you for joining me for another episode of the plant-free MD podcast today I am joined by a very special guest goes by Kent carnivore online um who actually is named Lee so Lee thank you so much for uh joining me on the podcast it's really nice to see you again you too man thank you for having me on oh worries so um I'm sure a lot of people have come across your channel and come across your story as well but for people who haven't can you tell us a bit about yourself yeah sure so my name is Lee not K or Kent I live in the garden of England which is called Kent and I thought you know I was the only guy representing the carnival D over here so that's that's why I came up with that name I'm exclusively on YouTube and I started to make videos because I had such a great outcome with this beautiful way of life uh the reason I went carnivore was because I was depressed um but I I think most people associate my story with having a bag I lost my colon in my 20s after listening to my doctor's dietary advice I took their drugs and in a matter of 5 years my whole colon was riddled and had to go and so that was why I became depressed I didn't really like the outcome of my surgery and I stumbled across an anecdote from Michaela Peterson this is how I found this diet and you know I set out to do a 30-day BBB Challenge and it's been over two and a half years now that's how good this this way of eating is so if I take it back to 2012 when I first presented with my symptoms and my problem it felt like diarrhea and so one day I sat on the toilet it was a little bit faster than normal and it wasn't until I wiped that I saw a load of blood on on the paper and was a little bit of a shock so I went down to my GP in atford and we basically just talked about my symptoms the very first thing the first doctor said at this practice was if you think it's bowel cancer you can forget it so a bit of a funny attitude there there were these adverts on at the time about bow cancer awareness and I think he probably got a little bit sick and tired of seeing people you know coming in after one and another with the same symptoms and I guess he thought I was too young or something which kind of makes sense but yeah um we talked about it and he said obviously we were going to you know we need to do test we need to figure out what this is and so he referred me to my Hospital tber Welles and that's where they ran some tests so a sigmoid endoscopy was performed so it's like a probing device with a camera with little Pines and they take biopsies and I didn't take the anesthetics so I could kind of well experience it all it's a very unpleasant experience um so they went in at the back end and they start to blow up areas of the intestine basically but it was quite low end I think that they could see they almost classed it as mild prop titis actually in the beginning but I was basically in this umbrella term of ultrastiff colitis that when I went went back to my doctor that's what they said that I had and so it's an inflammatory bow disease it's also cast as an autoimmune disease and at the time like I said it was so mild that they didn't even really talk about drugs they just mentioned things like little and often so eat smaller frequent Mills that are colorful lots of fiber and so whole plant foods and Grains was definitely something I remember they they were pushing for grains interestingly I saw a second doctor at the same practice and can you believe one of his viice one of his tips were to uh drink a beer of night one beer every night which is just it's just incredible when I reflect back on that advice yeah I think sorry I think he's thinking about yeah regulating about movement he was talking along the lines of you know let's get you regular and all this kind of stuff one beer might help maybe he read something quite recently about that I don't know but it's crazy you think about it's just mashed up grains with gluten and acid alahh in there it's not exactly super fuel for your gut so yeah I didn't listen to that advice um although I did smile and laugh thought oh you know he's given me an excuse to drink here but no no I I was quite you know quite worried about my health and so I took the advice quite seriously in terms of the fiber and the plant materials and things like this and I I went about consuming smaller meals and so typically every meal was based around grains porridge oats in the morning Goji berries and apples and cinnamon and then whole grain sandwiches and wraps come evening times Brown rice and Mediterranean dishes you know grains vegetables more so in the evening and and often like animal protein so just lean sources of animal nutrition like chicken and cod and things like that I did have a little bit of dairy but I did hear that that was also potentially a problem for people like me and so I wasn't going crazy I wasn't drinking milk or anything like that anyway two years goes by and my issue is definitely worse and I'm thinking you know I'm doing all the right things I need to go back to see my doctor to see what he thinks and so it was at this point where they prescribed some steroids it was a very typical treatment I can't remember the name but it was a typical treatment for colitis which obviously only affects the colon so it's different from Crohn's where it can affect gum to bum and so I went away now you know diet apparently was fine I'm doing all the right things with the diet so carry on with that I would even snack on things like almonds in between meals things like that you know crazy like bodybuilder style you know chicken broccoli rice and almonds in between and then lots of other colorful dishes and the drugs which actually seem to work quite well in the beginning I think this is quite common steroids are miraculous when you're on them but they're not sustainable and they're very very dangerous obviously you know long term I didn't know this I just listened to my doctor's advice and went about my life I would typically go in and out of flareups so a flare up would be where I just feel run down my body's like nope can't do this anymore and then the diarrhea would come with lots of blood and nasty symptoms like mucus and and and things like that and obviously the frequency in which I was going to the toilet was ramped up but confidence was down and being a window cleaner is is quite tricky when you leave the house you know you think oh man you know how cuz where I live quite often it's like out in the sticks it's just Countryside and you know nowhere to go to stop to use a toilet and I didn't really like to encroach on people's properties and things like that so um yeah bit bit tricky when I was on a flare up and over time these progressively got worse and so I would say after about a year of taking these drugs along with the diet which I thought was a good thing that I was doing it felt like I was no longer taking the drugs anymore it was just like I was right back to being at the doctors again a year ago anyway continue to go about this lifestyle because they've just kept affirming me this is all you can do it's you you're an unfortunate human being it's in your genetics it's hereditary we have drugs eat lots of fiber that's pretty much it they never tested me for gluten yeah they never tested me for gluten and luckily I wasn't drinking a beer every night every now and again but not not every night well anyway 2017 comes along and I'm now flaring up for the last time and part of me knew because I typically gone in the beginning it would be maybe five six seven times in a day as it progressed you're getting up to sort of 10 12 maybe 15 on a very bad day I had experienced up to 20 times a day but it would be like one day and then it would drop back down to 16 17 times as it was getting really bad but this this time it went straight to sort of like double figures and after a couple of days I was going 30 times a day and I had previously heard looking at YouTube videos of someone in a similar position to me these guys like pretty much living in the bathro from going like 30 times a day and I couldn't believe how severe it was in their case and I was thinking oh I'm so lucky you know feeling sorry for these guys and there I am now in my present moment I'm one of these guys now I'm going 30 times a day and I felt like I should have just taken a pillow into the bathroom because I was at my parents house at the time and by the time I got comfy after going to the toilet I would lay back down on the on the couch I was getting signs to go straight back up and it was relentless I mean 30 times when you I was probably up for maybe because I was pretty exhausted as well say I was up for maybe 12 14 hours of the day try and fit in going up the stairs and going to the toilet 30 times you don't really get time to do much else and um I just felt like I was wasting away and my my muscles were deteriorating I was very dehydrated losing a lot of electrolytes and iron and um it started to look a bit different as well in the toilet I mean I'm not going to go into details but um I rung my nan up um because my parents were in the states and I wasn't driving it was just such bad time and um I I got on the phone I said like I don't this is my situation I really don't believe I got another day in me I think I'm heading for a real like troubled situation she say Okay Co we take you straight first thing in the morning kind of thing and I remember this car Journey oh was just horrible I was holding onto the the bar at the top of the the the door just trying to hold in the toy it was so bad and I was sweating it it's just really tricky and um eventually presented just like an absolute mess in the hospital they they could see I was in a bit of a state they hooked me up with intravenous strip to rehydrate me basically they put me on a different cause of steroids again to lower inflammation so they could perform another investigatory have a look let's explore to see what's happened I don't think that they re I don't think they really thought it would be as bad as what it was based on what they saw the last time they saw me which was just you know not too many years ago again I refused anesthetic camera and device straight up the back end again more biopsies but this time rather than cuz the previous time there were sort of joking with me and keeping things light this kind of stopped after about 30 seconds they could see how bad it was and they kept going further up they were calling other people in for different opinions and things like this they all just look very very serious they kind of like ignored me now they weren't engaging with me at all and I'm sort of like reading the room like this is bad and um they said you know your whole colon is riddled with colius it's a very little chance you're going to get out of the hospital with at least not some kind of surgery and um they they were going to troll me on this very potent immune supressant drug this was like last chance scenario you know I think they said it could be around 50 that you'll get into remission we'll put you on some drugs and maybe you can go home but we don't know we don't think so anyway I can't remember how many days I was on this drug but they kept me on it two days longer than they should and eventually the guy came in with about six women or something all like pulling like these faces and they started putting their hands on my leg and tapping me as if like I was like like what's going on it's all right it's all right and they you know the doctor the main guy there he broke the news you know first thing in the morning we're going to have to take your entire colon out this isn't working and he explained to me that what was happening and that why some of the residue was bit different I was shedding line lining of my colon it was just coming out of me slowly but surely and I was on my way to perforation so I don't know how far away from yeah I don't know how far away I was from that but it felt pretty pretty bad it felt like being poisoned and your body not being able to get rid of it it was like just Relentless very weak um and it started to kind of almost cause pain like different in a different way I I never felt too much pain it was more discomfort and inconvenience where this time it was definitely something different and of course inevitably I had to have this surgery so um stom nurses came around so if anyone doesn't know what stom is it's basically the last part of your intestine that you able to keep on to that protrudes through the abdominal wall which then would you know you'd have a bag fashioned over the top of this around the stomach so that you can empty you go number two into a bag and that was basically my future and so these stom nurses were taking me through the concept giving me these booklets and showing me pictures to try and you know help me understand this thing and different foods can you believe they gave me a list of foods that promotes loads of gas and right at the top there's all like mushrooms and onions and there was no no meat on there or anything like that I think they did put Dairy on there but I don't I don't know why um yeah it was just basically all plants and um yeah to to just very very slowly you know when you get back to back to your life you can eat everything but just very very incrementally get there you know very slow step so and another funny thing is as well when I woke up after the surgery it was about two two and a half days before I ate it could have even been three days before I ate anything obviously they're very keen to monitor you on food to see if the bag and the stoer is working properly interestingly they don't give you any fiber none zero because it could block things up and so you think like that's kind of interesting you know I've been advocated to to eat loads of fiber and now all of a sudden I'm I'm not allowed to eat any fiber so they gave me white bread with butter they gave me Pringles this this was a very popular one um I think a lot of people have been through a similar surgery they yeah Pringles are like the superfood because it's it's great you know you got salt you got this starch there's no fiber and it's going to allow you your output to studge up because apparently we just want really stodgy output um and this kind of stuff and I was having a lot of these pure Ade vegetable meals these strange dishes they almost like make a carrot shape out of mashed up carrot it's really weird um and so yeah I don't know what that's all about it's almost like quite patronizing the way you get oh look some carrot there you go you know so um yeah a bit of a strange um experience the whole thing but I felt at least I was in the right place I was in the hospital and everybody accepted me you know because they seen this time and time again they're all professionals anyway I couldn't wait to get home cuz I'm I'm pretty rubbish at sleeping certainly under sort of that amount of of assistance and Care like they come in constantly every 3 hours to take your blood pressure and it's like 3: in the morning they're waking you up so um sleep was terrible I couldn't wait to get home just to get back to my bed and um I did I get I went home with my parents again and they're back from the states now they already visited me in the hospital before I I I got home and um the very next day they all went to work and it was really quiet so I woke up and it was just me in the house just with my thoughts and no kidding it was just like in Stant depression just it hit me so hard so fast I realized where do I go from here like it just felt like a strange dream I woke up from this dream and now but now I've got to face this actually not a dream it's reality like I've got this bag attached to my stomach and it doesn't look good I don't like the way it feels I don't like having to deal with it or change and and it affected my sleep definitely I was I felt restricted to laying on my back um and all I wanted to do was turn over but it's on the right side so if you turn over on your left it kind of pulls too much and if you if you're if I'm laying on my right for whatever reason things move faster so it was just like I felt restricted to just being on my back and I think the combination of the way I naturally was I think I was quite um bit of a pessimist I suppose more of a gloomier Outlook than than the average person anyway I've always been quite neurotic but I do think that that's also to do with diet hey everyone really happy to announce a new sponsor for the show and for everybody down in Australia stock bman steaks who are delivering highquality grass-fed and finished pasture raised beef and other meats flash frozen and vacuum sealed to your door something I've been enjoying a lot of myself recently as well they also have a great range of specialty items such as high fat keto mints and carnivore beef and organs mints with liver kidneys and beef heartart as well so use code cha today for free order of beef Mint or another specialty gift along with your order at Stockman steaks.com and I'll see you over there thanks guys and um just yeah the aesthetic of this thing and I'm I'm a bit of a comfort person I certainly was and there's like there's no comfort you can't go and seek comfort with this thing you can't run away from it you can't take it off it's just always there and in the initial periods I couldn't really take my mind off it so I couldn't get comfortable with it and I'm now trying to go back to work and it just changed everything it actually just put a damper on everything you know because I Wherever I Go it goes with me and um it almost became my body I had to ask my bag like can I go to sleep or do I need to empty or change can I eat now or do I need to empty or change you know can I go for a walk can I do this can I do that I've not been in a swimming pool since um you know I would never dream of taking my top off there's a time and a place I don't want to just offend people I felt like I had a freakish body now like an old Granddad or something you know I'm in my 20s and I feel like a 70- year old guy with bowel cancer and so um it just all affected me um in a real big way mentally it became a mental thing thing and uh developed a LoveHate relationship with food because every time I ate I had to process it but I loved eating and I loved my food but after about 3 hours now I've got to kind of like go through this process of of feeling the process like I could feel when food was now coming out kinking into the bag and I slowly but surely picked up on things so over here we have a roast dinner on a Sunday and I would go back to my parents so I'm I'm now living in my own house with Lucy um and we go back to um around my parents house to have like a Sunday roast and typically you've got like some maybe some lamb or maybe some chicken and then spuds and then vegetables and then gravy and slowly but surely I was like going around there saying do you know what I don't really want any more of the broccoli because it's just causing me such a nightmare in the bag I would get obstructions and it would really struggle and then I was like you know what I don't I don't even think I want peas or carrots this time and so it was kind of like meat and then just potatoes which is starchy it wasn't so bad and I actually guilty I thought I was getting rid of all the nutrients like no I'm just getting protein and starch like protein I just looked at it like protein and carbs so now I'm missing the vitamins and minerals I didn't really know I thought I knew about food but I certainly didn't and um yeah it's interesting because I kind of naturally backed off there with certain foods um but I kind of continued to eat a broad spectrum of everything in some ways and for the first time I'm now noticing what food looks like as it would enter your colon which is where I had all this disease so if I was like eating seeds and nuts and things like that or a seeded bread sandwich and you got tomato in there and maybe chicken and avocado all this stuff you're just chewing on it it's not like I'm not chewing my food right I'm just chewing it down I'm happy I can swallow it right good 3 hours later you can see bits of green like from the avocado just chunks of it you could see fullon seeds and big sections of tomato and the skin just hasn't changed I could see like all the broccoli florettes and the colors but I never ever saw any evidence of the meat like the chicken the fish the dairy every now and again I'd have some red meat but mostly in a form of a burger so you'd eat the burger and you see sesame seeds from the bun see like parts of chips and stuff like that like fries and you'd see like bits of salad and tomato seeds and skins you never see any beef it's just liquid and so it's like the plant material was swimming around in what is normal store in a sense and of course if I had my colon once that food reaches there where I had the disease that would have aggregated that would have aggravated the ulcers and things like that you know those sharp bits and pieces the SK they tell you like remove the skins and seeds from apples and cook your apples like it gets to that point where you're so bad they're like yeah don't eat the skins and seeds but they don't realize that the stalks and the stems and all this it doesn't break down whatsoever you know and um obviously for most people they would reabsorb the water and so it's not going to be like this super liquidy output so it's not like I was if you just eat meat you're going to have Di it's obviously going to be um metabolized properly and thoroughly I just don't get the opportunity to do that but I'm seeing how food would enter the colon and so it kind of fascinated me but I still fully believe that I should be eating this stuff because that's where the the nutrition was I just thought I was getting the macros like protein and some carbs and so every now and again I would make myself eat some plants and different colors from the plant world just to tick all the boxes you know um but anyway I just became more and more depressed because of this whole relationship with the bag food relationship you know sleep work everything sex everything it affects absolutely everything and um I was just getting worse and worse mentally and it got to the point where I became suicidally depressed I was thinking about every day in some way shape or form I would come home and if no one was here I got to kind of just be myself as in I didn't have to fool people I didn't have to put on a fake smile or pretend like I'm okay in front of my family because I felt guilty um I could just be me and and and funny thing is in those moments I would absolutely freeze I wouldn't even be able to move cuz I didn't know what I wanted to do with that like now I get to be me like what do I want to do how do I be me and I just froze like I don't I didn't feel like I could take steps forward because I couldn't see any future with this bag it's like how am I ever going to get out of this rut and anyway I I I actually went back down to my GP not really willing to take drugs but I just I felt like I couldn't handle this anymore on my own and so we had another conversation different doctor same practice and um he then said right there's another number you call this this is like a unit a care unit and they will help you you know resolve with therapy drugs whatever so it was called where with you it was a very long number and it's like a one-sided thing so I could call these um they sorry you could book like an a call thing and they call you but you can't call them back it's really strange and um it was like a 45 minute conversation and it made me feel quite good because I shared absolutely everything you know just openly about absolutely everything and they were then going to get back to me um you know figure out you know therapy what drugs whatever this kind of stuff and I was just waiting on that call days went by wasn't too worried weeks went by now I'm thinking should I you know and this is when I tried to call them back and you couldn't call this number back anyway two months goes by and I'm just sitting on the sofa what you call the couch and um watching YouTube and uh Michaela Peterson's anecdote on the low carb down under Channel came up don't eat this I was like okay I'll watch this that's what I watched and it just blew me away I was like this might be an answer it's something you know I was on my own again I don't know I don't want to just start drinking alcohol I quit alcohol I got off this phone call and they said do you drink and I was like yeah um it's not like I was crazy on it but they said it would help if you can cut that back that day I put the phone down so two months before seeing this anecdote I quit alcohol but I wasn't right in the head still so it wasn't like it was just alcohol um anyway I was sold on the spot after listening to Michaela Peterson's anecdote and my partner Lucy was sitting to my right and um I was like I'm going to do this thing like I feel like I have to you know it worked for her she had autoimmune conditions and she had severe depression sounds a bit like me right so um I thought what have I got what we got to lose and Lucy ended up kind of being really supportive and and just jumping on the BBB challenge overnight like the next day with me so we went down to the shops and stocked up on you know beef butter bacon and eggs and that was it you know it was just a 30-day challenge overnight my acid reflux went after a week my skin improved like I've always suffered really badly with my skin and I'm quite marked up from the pl but the moment I adopted this diet all of that kind of stopped and acne on my back was almost completely gone in a week so I was like that's pretty impressive that's kind of crazy wasn't trying to address these things at all of course but my energy was stooping quite a bit and I would say within those first two weeks I was struggling because it was just brand new I switched very fast and I wasn't used to just fat protein I was used to carbs carbs five times a day right so um it was a bit of a slow turn around in terms of feeling optimal with energy but on day 21 everything just kind of aligned I didn't eat breakfast that day it was a beautiful day and I went out and cleaned windows and after a few hours I was just I realized I was smiling constantly I was just like appreciating nature and the wind and the trees and the birds I was talking to people like I actually liked people you know like I liked life and I like to be alive and it just everything changed in that moment I couldn't help it I pulled over on the side of my on the side of the road in my van and recorded my testimony um and I was kind of like I don't know it's like I believed it I believed that that was it it fixed it and I made this video like my depression is gone you know um all this stuff has improved and I'd already learned a fair bit like I even said in that very first video that I put up on my YouTube I haven't burned in the sun I'm not sweating know this and it was like summertime and I'm look at me I'm really pale i' usually really burn in the sun I haven't burned at all I don't use any sun cream or anything like that so so many random benefits but 20 day 21 depression gone and um the rest is history so yeah well that's amazing I I think that um it's well I'm just really glad that you you came across that it's really nice that this was was out there and had this sort of serendipitous moment where you you you saw this when when you sort of really needed to see it yeah and um and it was it was very helpful for you it's you know from the from the mental health side of things you know we we're seeing this more and more we're seeing this in in controlled trials and clinical trials and we're having randomized controlled trials showing that you can improve mental health with these sorts of dietary interventions the food that we eat as it as it turns out food affects your body if you eat it and your brain's part of your body it's uh strange but true but you know it's um it makes a huge difference for people and you know and I I would imagine that it it also helped with your with your issues with the stom as well um I've heard you mention and I've certainly seen other people within the similar situation that it's just it's it's a very different uh experience having a stom on a carnivore diet is that right yes definitely so I've pretty much stayed away from all plant materials for over two and a half years boring one time where I personally I ate some local blackberries I thought you know let's see let's just see what happens it's local I picked them myself it was off the road so there's no pollution no glyphosate I picked them I gave them a little wash and I ate them never again just I just hated it the experience after like I say after about three hours it hits this sort of area and my abdominal wall spasms and reacts and contracts because the food is is not broken down the fiber it's just like cellulose it's not broken down it's it's now struggling around the corner and I'm having to even like Aid the output I'm having to push above my stomach to help the food come out it's like always on the verge of being blocked and sometimes my stomach looked a bit like blown up over the top of my stomach couple of times in the night I've had things where you wake up and you you feel like it's not painful but it's kind of like it's not quite right and then you feel your stomach and it's just almost like overlapping I know folding over your stomach and you're having to kind of push the stomach back it's really strange and this is how obviously how robust these fibrous structures are and I think obviously we got this corner and if you know you put a load of fiber in there all in one go and it's like oh it's a nightmare and so I did that one time I have to say I mean that these blackberries smelt and tasted great saying that after about a couple of mouthfuls you know you chew this stuff and then you you can you just got fiber in your mouth and it's like it's not even that fun anyway you know so it lasts about two seconds and you're like it's just fiber just like no taste left and you swallow that it was a nightmare so that was the very first summer it was only after maybe two or three months I can't remember now but um yeah I've never gone back to anything else again because it's just so it's effortless I can't feel when food hits the bag and I know that that might sound funny to some people they might think oh it might fill up or how do you know you know you just check you just have a look or whatever but it's it's a breeze it's um it's a pleasure digesting food in fact I don't feel like I'm digesting anything you know it's like it's like you've eaten air but now you're no you're not hungry anymore you know and it was tasty air so like you enjoyed the experience of eating it and then you you just stop when you're full and then there's no problems afterwards it's just liquid and people don't a lot of people don't believe me but I've swallowed chunks of red meat and once it hits that stomach acid it's liquefied it's just it's easy and you you're absorbing it and of course mine is going to be more liquid because I don't have the opportunity to reabsorb that water in the colon but I would take that any day you know over fibrous materials whole grains I mean if I had to um if I had to eat some kind of plant material and and suggest something just say someone had to eat some kind of carbohydrate and they have a bag I would say white rice you know um if it had to be a fruit I would say maybe a banana a soft banana cuz they're more pliable but I'm in the UK I've never seen a banana grow here in the UK okay I've never seen any white rice grow here so I think I'll just stick to the local beef of the lamb and stuff like that yeah definitely and I mean it it really I mean just just shows Point Blank this this weird lie that people make I mean this is something we've known for a very long time that that that meat is very bioavailable it breaks down very readily in our digestive system we absorb it in a small intestine before it even gets to the colon and you cannot break down fiber so it's like just right there right in front of your eyes it's like okay okay plants 95% of it's going to be fiber roughly and um and you're not going to be able to digest any of that 95% of that's going to come out and meat you can get I mean I found I found papers from the 1950s saying that infants eating solid food for the first time could absorb 98% of the meat right so 98% as an infant first time eating food not like fully developed right um and then fiber you I mean plants you're getting you're getting 5% right so I mean we know that and yet and yet people say and it just gets repeated and with no evidence either asked for or provided that oh your body has a really hard time breaking down meat and sit there for 10 years it's a tube it goes One Direction I mean you know you know something comes in it's not supposed to be there like you hear about it pretty quickly and it's not there's nowhere for it to stay for 10 years I mean that that one you shouldn't like no one should should buy I mean that doesn't even pass the smell test I me you just obstructed you die you know if you get an obstruction for 10 days you'll die you know let alone 10 years so you know just it just shows you know the evidence for that and what what's really interesting is how you're saying there was still sort of in whole form wasn't even like broken down to like a fibrous MH or something like that because we see things when they come out of the colon after the bacteria get a hold of it and the bacteria start eating the bacteria start breaking it down and and that's a very different thing but we can't break any of this stuff down the bacteria can eat it the bacteria can break it down people say well meat purifies in your colon no literally plants purify in your colon because they they are the ones getting broken down by bacteria now there's putri action and fermentation there's different sorts of processes but that's what people mean when they say purify they mean that it's being eaten by bacteria and the bacteria are breaking it down um and that only happens to the plant material right and because the meat's already absorbed so you are able to absorb meat break down meat absorb meat not able to do that with plants it's the bacteria that do that and then all that stuff comes out uh in your waist as well and and then the other the other thing I've been thinking about recently you know we have all this talk about how important the microbiome is and that's in your colon you don't have a microbiome because you don't have a colon and well you need fiber to feed your microbiome like no you don't yeah I've thought about that do you think it do you think maybe it partially relocates or I mean I guess we have a biome everywhere and it's obviously different from the biome we have in the colon yeah but think because like I've also thought about this I was depressed and i' I've suffered with depression before in my life but this was really worse way way worse this was after I had my colon removed and so you think about this gut brain access and it's like often the problem in the gut is why have a problem in the brain but I've now had this problem removed and I'm yet I'm still depressed you know so it's interesting you think well have I lost part of my biome is it well most of my biome is it partially relocated in the terminal part of the helium I've thought about this stuff it's it's strange but either way I was depressed eating a plant-based diet post surgery and I had to cut that stuff out to be happy healthy you know virile energetic everything yeah yeah well it's it is interesting I've sort of posed that question to a couple people and um you know they were they were quite interested in it saying yeah that's something we need to look into they were thinking yeah maybe something you know gets into the small intestine realistically I mean you know you know there is a sphincter you know between you know the seeum and the and the um the terminal alium right so um realistically it's not supposed to be going back into the small intestine things from the large intestin not supposed to go back in I'm sure there's a bit of crossover I'm sure there's a probably a bit bit of bacteria in there but it's not it's but you know when you get a when you get a a significant amount of bacteria in your small intestine that's sibo right a small intestinal bacterial overgrowth and so you know that's that's typically not what you want and would typically have um you know quite severe and delerious symptoms so yeah I so so it's interesting and then like yeah you're saying you know the gut brain axis you with the the microbiome like well you have to have these certain bacteria and that's going to do this and that's going to affect you this way you know you know some large percentage of your serotonin is exema in your gut and then that's sent up to your brain but you clearly got serotonin because you're not you're not depressed and miserable and and functioning so it's it's a very interesting question um and and it either well it it it it poses a very interesting question you know for the relative nature of a microbiome you know how important actually is it you know what what exactly is its role because if you remove it entirely are we seeing too much of a difference I haven't been able to find any studies on that i' I've actually looked through I haven't found too much on that there are some differences you know people that um you know get their colons removed I looked at you know different mental health issues and things like that and um I found a couple things where was like a very slight difference in you know mood and depression scores and things like that but you have someone who just said their colon removed they're not not going to be as happy as as every if you didn't have it I would say yeah it was a very slight difference it wasn't like a massive difference either so and then you know what about schizophrenia and and OCD and all these other sorts of things that that you know serotonin and dopamine and all these sorts of things have a have a role to play and so and we and we say a lot of this comes from your gut as well so it's interesting and um I think that that's probably really the way you want to look at at least an important part of investigating the microbiome is is getting a lot of people like yourselves that don't have a microbiome anymore and seeing how different are they from other people and so like oh okay well overall fairly the same or you get a whole bunch of people with stomas that are now on a carnivore diet and you're like actually getting your col and Tak it out seems to improve people you know get their their depression goes there's another thing that's quite interesting about this as well you think about say like fibrous materials obviously they ferment in the colon right and then you've got mushrooms which like contain chit in instead right um now they're like super gas promoting but either way I've eaten an Indian takeaway with this bag mushrooms onions I wake up in the middle of the night and it's like a balloon stuck to my stomach so isn't that interesting that it's also still fermented and and created all this gas without a c yeah right like what what is going on there yeah so yeah there may there may well be some bacteria in the in the small intestine that you know before it gets to you know SE levels of uh I mean this thing was like blown up there was probably 80% air and then just like 20% output and I would struggle to open it it was so packed out like blown up so tight you can't even open it to empty so you're having to like spray the top of the bag to pull it off with like an anti-adhesive spray just to allow some air to come out so you can empty and then of course I would just change the bag but it's like you're in this pickle where you don't even know how to how do I get out of this this situation I've got a a bag blown up like a balloon there's no room at all to do anything but I've got to get this thing off and change it you know and that that was just from mushrooms and onions in one meal the night before I would wake up every day like that after a meal like that and it would just be like a balloon so you who wants that yeah no no thank you yeah hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want a nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option so I like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25% off total all right thanks guys one of the things I was thinking about as well I've been I've been you know really wrestling with this idea of autoimmunity in general because it just it doesn't make sense to me you know when I was taking Immunology it was it was very clear and even said this in in the Immunology textbook was a postgraduate you know graduate level um uh Immunology course and um and it was very clear like your body your body actually can't is is designed not to attack itself when your your immune cells are maturing in your in your thymus mainly they're tested against every single antigen that in your body that's every single molecule your body can possibly make and if these immune cells react even slightly or make antibodies or have the ability to make antibodies even they attach even slightly to your own molecules they're killed they're just killed and so in the textbook even says you okay autoimmunity this has to be a breakdown of that maturation process so that you actually can attack your body but we have no idea why or how and we don't understand why that would be but you know that makes sense if if you're going with the idea that it is your body attacking your own body that would have to happen but I actually haven't said no no we see this this is what's happening they're saying well logically that has to be what's happening because your body's attacking itself and this is the only way your body would be able to attack itself and but we don't know why or how or what the hell is going on but the thing is is that I don't think that is what's happening because when your body does attack if you have a if you have an infection or if you have a foreign body or something like that your body mounts an immune response and it is full court press right if you have an abscess or you have a pneumonia or you have something like that you know you're not going to have flares of your immune system attacking that um pneumonia or infection because when it's flaring okay that's attacking that infection and then it goes like oh yeah I'm just going to take the weekend off and then and then that that infection is going to kill you I mean when people have immuno deficiencies like serious immune deficiencies you know uh a cold will kill them you know and so you can't let you can't let um an infection just run rampant you know and if your body is treating your colon like it's an infection like it's a like it's a pathogen and bacterial infection you you can't you can't be fighting that infection for years and years and years and years it's going to be just full core it's not going to be just ups and downs and ups and downs and ups and down it's just going to be like this has to go this has to die this is over but it doesn't you know and it doesn't do that for any autoimmune issues there there are some that they're overly aggressive but even even they you know do have es and flows you know they don't just completely you have multiple sclerosis even have like primary Progressive multiple sclerosis it doesn't just you know go out like analitis and just melt your brain which is what it would do if it thought your brain was an abscess right so that's not happening so that's not a breakdown of of that maturation process and you're making cells that are now killing yourself and thinking your body is an infection so that's not what's happening I think of it more as like Celiac Celiac is considered an autoimmune disease but it's um it's gluten mediated right so so if you if you don't eat gluten you don't get the autoimmune disease it's like well that doesn't really make sense if it's an autoimmune disease it should just be attacking your body it shouldn't matter what else is happening but what Happ with gluten gluten is eltin which is a plant Toxin and lectins are highly associated with autoimmunity generally and also plants come with glyphosate which is highly associated with autoimmunity generally but glyphosate sorry gluten specifically binds to urine parasites and damages them and cause leaky gut that can cause other things to get into your body which is a problem but just on the on the Celiac side of things when these gluten when these gluten molecules attack and attach to your intestinal cells they cause damage and your body does exactly what it's supposed to do which is try to defend against that damage so it makes antibodies towards that but this thing is stuck to your inter terasite so now it's getting attacked but it's stuck to your cells and so now your cells are getting hit in the crossfire and so it's like and so they're getting damaged it's it's just like civilian casualties in War it's casualties of War so but when and you can look at this on on biopsy it's just horribly flattened V and micro causes a lot of damage and and um issues with Mal absorption things like that but then if you take the gluten away problem goes away and within four to 6 weeks those intestinal cells have completely regenerated and it's completely normal even though Celiac antibodies can stay up for over three years after your last exposure to gluten so what's going on there that's obviously not an autoimmune disease because you have the antibodies there they're not an auto antibodies they're not attacking your body it's only when gluten comes in attacks your body and they attack the gluten so I think that's what's going on with the rest of them as well and that fits that pattern these es and flows and these ups and these Downs when you're getting this crap in your body and that's causing problems and you know that's certainly Michaela Peterson's experience if she just eats the wrong thing bam she's got a flare up of her rheumatoid arthritis and that's what I mean I see this reactive like you can check this on lab tests with my Hashimoto patients you know they'll they'll be going through just just eating you know beef Lam and water doing great great great their antibodies are just slowly coming down same thing with Celiac it can take um you know it can take you know years for those antibodies to come all the way down to a very low level or non- detectable level and all of a sudden you know they go to Italy and and go on vacation for two weeks I'm just going to I'm just going to enjoy myself they come back and I'm you know feeling wretched you check their antibodies and slammed up and then they're slowly coming down again and that and that's exactly what happen so it much it much more closely fits that sort of pattern where you're getting something in your body and your body and it's attacking you it's damaging you and then your body's responding to that attack and that's what I think is is going on with autoimmunity said wonder what you think about all that yeah no I I actually agree um although I did I do also think at the same time it's well I guess maybe you've debunked that I actually used to put like gluten intolerance like Celiac IBS IBD all of it I was just like it's the same disease it's the same just just different levels of Destruction from different angles based on an individual that's a complete unique being um I just I just thought it was like autoimmunity is underpinned by in intestinal permeability seal the gut and then your auto immunity goes away you know and so again like the same things the lectins gluten being one of them fight hemog gluten and um fiber I stand isn't electing but that's not going to help CU that's not breaking down um what else casine from dairy alcohol seed oils glyphosate that would be the list I can think of medication certain medications um yeah that kind of stuff and I mean regardless of what it is specifically you know whether we really know 100% when you cut that stuff out you get better you know and I I I don't really want to do many experiments I accidentally had sea dolls once on a ski holiday and I didn't feel right for a couple of days that was one steak one time right I had this burning tingling heat like warm sensation that all of a sudden I could feel something in my digestive tract where on on a on a clean Carnival diet I don't feel anything in my digestive tract I eat I'm satiated I get on with my life I forget about it but if I if I deviate if I a little trace of anything it's like I know this there's a problem with that thing I can feel it so um yeah for me it's just like eat red meat mhm restrict plant and dairy massively if not 100% seal the gut get out of trouble it's up to you whether you want to do some personal experiments I wouldn't touch whole grains I wouldn't touch seedar you know alcohol if you want to wear and roam it a few times a year that's up to you um but I would rather drink like a brandy or a rum or a rodka than beer or red wine you know so yeah yeah definitely um well Le it's been it's been a pleasure I really appreciate you coming on I know you I know you've got to go here in a minute um you know just just um just very last like you know um well I I guess you just did I was going to ask if you know if you had any advice to someone who was in your position you know coming into this and they're just sort of like well what the hell do I do where can I go you sort of you sort of answered that there sort of just eat this way but you know what what would be something you could say to your your former self that may convince you to maybe give this a try and and and sort of deviate away away from what um you know mainstream medicine was telling you I would keep it really simple and think just imagine you exist 15,000 years ago and before then think about what your lifestyle and diet would look like do that as much as possible and restrict everything else restrict blue light get outside revert back to Natural Whole Foods but not just oh it's a whole food like there's an apple no no I'm talking about what is available where you live because right now I'm in the UK I don't see any fruit I don't see the grains I don't see you know unless it's like man has created this monocrop and this is available and there's one crop here forget all that it's not natural go back 15,000 years 50,000 years whatever eat ruminant Meats the most nutrient dense and least inflammatory eat once or twice a day no more don't snack mineralize your water ground natural light limit artificial stuff technology out of the bedroom that's it everything natural enhance your natural you know and and and get away from all this so socalled progress absolutely well I think it's great advice and and definitely something I follow as well uh lee thank you so much for coming on it's been a pleasure it's great to meet you again and uh please tell us where uh people can find you and support you and follow your work appreciate it so I'm actually exclusively on YouTube I should probably do something about that get on other platforms and things but if you want to find me I'm under carnivore I try to keep my content quite entertaining I approach things with a common sense approach you know I like to try and appeal to just a lay person who may not know or might just want reassuring or you know this kind of stuff so I I don't get too deep in the science I do touch on it here and there but I try to keep things light and playful um with you know series like vegans losing it and things like this but I'm not anti vgan I'm pro-human my issue there is you know if you're an activist or an influencer spreading a dangerous narrative I will try and you know negate that with um helpful and accurate information yeah perfect well I will uh I'll put the links for your channel in the description people can go down and check that out and obviously if you start any more social media let me know I'll put that in too greatly it was a pleasure great to see you man and have a great rest of your day you too than hey guys thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say if you like it then please like And subscribe to my YouTube channel and pod and if you're on YouTube then please hit that little bell and subscribe and that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out which should be every week if not more and if you could share this with your friends that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing thanks again guys