Changing The Way The World Views Agriculture! | Discover AG Podcast

welcome to the plantree MD podcast with Dr Anthony chaffy where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically hello everyone thank you for joining me for another episode of the plant-free MD podcast I'm your host Dr Anthony chaffy and today I have two very special return guests Tara and Natalie from the discovering egg podcast Tara Natalie thank you so much for coming back it's great to see you both yeah it's good to see you thanks for having us back I know it's fun to come back yeah definitely so um for people that haven't seen our first episode and maybe haven't come across you yet can you give us a uh tell us a bit about yourself and what you do yeah I'll get started so um my husband and I are Dairy Farmers so I'm a fifth generation Dairy Farmer and um my path I guess to agriculture is maybe a little unconventional excuse me I started out in egg but I left um when I went away to college and got my degree in environmental science and didn't necessarily see myself coming back to agriculture um but that was you know jokes on me I ended up marrying a Dairy Farmer coming back to a in like a very um I don't know unique way in some ways I ended up Consulting for dairy farms across the Southwest on environmental issues and I did that for more than 10 years and then ended up uh meeting Natalie and uh started sharing on social media and just life took a huge detour my career took a huge detour and started you know full-time into sharing with people about where their food comes from Agriculture and ended up starting a podcast with Natalie called discover act so I'll let her jump in there yeah like Tara we actually kind of have similar stories um which is kind of unique but I grew up in agriculture as well I actually grew up in uh the beautiful state of Montana um on a cattle ranch so uh really great childhood but like Tara I did not plan to stay in agriculture I actually got my degree in Pharmacy and I was practicing as a full-time pharmacist um clinical Pharmacy kind of in the hospital clinic and absolutely loved it and that is how I envisioned My Life um I was close to our family ranch I spent a lot of time there I actually had two sisters on it so was very much involved in agriculture but never thought I would marry a ranch or never thought I would live on a ranch never thought my income would be drive from ranching never thought I'd be talking to people about ranching and Agriculture and and um when I met my husband that's kind of when I went full circle he was a Rancher and so he brought me back to Agriculture and like Tara um I kind of serendipitously found my way online I actually started a direct to Consumer beef business and so that's what I was first using social media for and then through that um you know little few turns here and there and like Tara said I kind of we kind of ended up starting the podcast and that has become my absolute love um and what we've kind of devoted the last couple years to good so um well how's the podcast going what do you guys normally touch on obviously there's been a lot of movement in the health space and certainly in the agricultural space in the last year and maybe some very interesting times ahead we'll see what what do you how's that been affecting you guys yeah it's funny because when we started the podcast I remember thinking so the premise of our podcast is every week we cover you know like three to five trending news articles that are related to food um farming agriculture but they have more of like a pop culture twist they're a little bit more like maybe consumer driven than like say farming driven um but we always tie it back to how things are impacting agriculture Farmers you know kind of the heartland of America and when we started it was like will there be enough articles to cover about like food and farming and like jokes obviously on us now because this entire conversation going into 2025 whether it be politically whether you know just even all of the pop culture world all of the western culture world everything is just blowing up and is so trending and people are just talking about you know where their food comes from you know everyone's wearing cowboy boots everyone's launching a country album like it's just so mainstream now uh that yeah there's always something really exciting to cover yeah it's been a really uh Wild Ride Like Tara said it's been fun to kind of be at the heart of it um luck was on our side when we started the podcast kind of with all of this as tar mentioned like Western culture's always been trending which has been really great you can tie it back to like Yellowstone right or you know whatever kind of was that Tipping Point um but I remember uh last summer when we had actually covered one of our articles was CI means because he had gotten into an ex fight with Jason Kelsey over the Kelsey brothers seral and so we actually covered that as one of our articles and yeah that was um the first time I ever actually came across C mean's name uh was from that and I'm sure he'd obviously been sharing before but that's when he got on our radar and so we covered him and we talked about it and then not maybe two 3 weeks I mean it was a very close timeline I don't know the exact timeline but I was sitting listening to RFK Jr give his resignation speech and in the middle of it he started talking about food and I thought wow this is going to be something right we have a presidential candidate who has the whole entire nation's attention on him and what he chooses to talk about is food and health and I thought this is really going to turn in something and then lo and behold 15 20 minutes into him talking he mentions CI means and I was like we just covered him who is this guy how is this happening and then I feel like from there it has just been article after article Left Right agriculture Health you know Wellness just like this whole Maha movement um and it's been fun we don't cover that obviously every single week on our podcast but I do feel like it has like kind of dominated the headlines lately yeah so what were some of the ones that you know come up recently some of the headlines and things like that you guys covered recently that were interesting yeah oh my goodness I don't even know where to start but I feel like some big ones that in this movie have been like you know the Banning of like the red dies in the United States that's been a huge part of this conversation um you know from that conversation I feel like it gets even more into you know in this whole dynamic you have ultr processed foods kind of at the heart of the conversation but then it goes out from there that is like who is supplying you know the wholesale products to these companies where where's the food coming from then it like gets into the farming practices and so you know Natalie and I talk about kind of like the intri intricacies and the nuanced in this because sometimes I feel like this is such a behemoth of a conversation you do have like food and then you have farming and then you have organic farming you have regenerative farming like it just goes out from there and so getting into a lot of that Nuance on the podcast has been fascinating because you just see it come up and you see you know the headline and it's like how can we dive a little deeper into this how can we look a little further because I think a lot of times you know consumers are going to see some of these headlines or they're going to see the things that you different people are sharing on social media but then like end up with more questions about the actual like farming uh oh okay I was I was like is that me or is that nope it's definitely Tara okay I'm still here yeah okay oh I think I think we lost you there for a minute you're back oh shoot did I get lost yeah yeah okay do I need to say that again it's okay Natalie do you want to answer yeah you had a good pause though it wasn't like you had like a half like you know like blinking one so at least there was that soide um I don't know Natt do you want to jump in do you want to say what you were gonna say I feel like you were looking at something oh no I was just pulled up our articles to see what we had covered lately uh we covered the egg prices that's obviously been one or you know the egg shortages the with Avan flu we covered that um we covered yep red dye recently uh there was a really big lawsuit in California um some Farms were uh sued by environmental a couple environmental groups three of them and they were kind of forced out of um a certain area right out of San Francisco we covered that we've done a lot of water um and then we also do fun things like we cover uh you know there's farmer wants a wife there are you know uh country artists that we're covering there's you know the story behind Hidden Valley Ranch so we we hi to have a kind of actually a meld between uh serious articles like that information side of our podcast and then kind of like an entertainment fun side too so you get the best of both worlds yeah I I actually came across one of those um like a former once a wife sort of thing it was in Ireland they have apparently is huge it's out in Western Ireland and like all these Farmers just come in out of out of the heath and um and they just have this little it's like this um sort of like October Fest like the original October Fest in Germany like that's what that was about you know you go there to like beat a wife or something and and they have this thing they have this like convention like out in Western Ireland and like apparently women just come from like all over Europe to like go meet like a farmer because they're you know they're they have land and they they generally you know listen women marrying a Rancher and farmer is you know the [Laughter] ultimate I just thought it was funny it was just but it was yeah but people just literally big in Australia too I think we had I was gonna say wasn't it big in Australia they have their own like they have their own show even like there's multiple farmer wants a wife in different countries for the shows and I mean essentially it's the bachelor premise but like with farmers and they're like wildly successful I think us was the last to implement it I definitely think like there were different European and other countries that had like successfully implemented cuz when we shared we're like oh this is fun and ever all of our you know like uh Global listeners were like yeah that's very old news MH yeah well and and um but this one in Ireland it wasn't even like a TV show it just like an actual Fair every year and like show up there and there's a bunch of like you know bachelor farmers and just women from all over the place that just said all right I'm just going to go to a different country and see what happens so this is what we have to do to get a man we have to go to another country yeah exactly yeah be there in Wellies and I can't speak like the in Ireland I don't know if you've been there but like um every part of every city have different accents and as soon as you go outside of the city they have different accents and you get into the country very different accents and then you'll get like subsets of the country accent where people like their families have grown up in like a valley with like four other families for like hundreds of years they have their own dialect and so they come in uh to the hospital I remember I was working rurally once and um and uh this guy came in he was from one of those really really small areas and um like the uh the boss was that was rounding I was an inter he just goes he's talking to him he's like hey you know so like you're in good hands you're doing very well now your blood are looking great you know like you're going to be out here in a few days you how are you feeling there sir and the GU is just like and like the the boss just sort of like looked at him looks up us goes anyone get that anyone like no don't look at me I I just got here and like no one can understand what they were saying it was funny and because they would just have even their own dialect inside their own area so yeah I don't know how that worked with like the the meeting a wife thing I Google Translate is not going to work for that yeah that's not going to help you with the dialect at all no so that would be interesting too but that's uh those are fun I was um I was thinking as well you know there there's something weird too with it with egg shortage obviously with Aven flu but you know someone made a good point like why is it that the only only bird on Earth that we're worried about for the Aven flu are chickens you know that we eat and have fegs from and you know the only only animal that we worry about methane from is cows that we eat was like you know nothing else is is a problem apparently and you know that's a bit suspicious in itself but I remember a couple years ago maybe you guys know a bit more about this than I do but I there was at one point there were chicken you know egg Farms that uh were getting burned down and there was at one point like a thousand burnt down in a year or something like that were you have you guys heard of that I'm sure you had do you know anything about that yeah I think that there definitely you know obviously things have happened on farms um we covered like a farm um that was a fire at a dairy farm actually and it was you know it was a crazy story um and I feel like you see those things on social media and especially in the social media World we're in where it like blows up and it goes everywhere and then I think there's obviously like a lot of I don't I don't know if conspiracy is the right word but people run with it right like I think these kind of things have happened for a while we obviously know in these cases with uh poultry they're going to be bigger barns so you're going to hear about like mass mass casualty of chickens and that's going going to make such a headline and such an impact when in reality like you know if there was Farms that were burning down previously it just wouldn't have had maybe the same like it wouldn't have the same National me media coverage as it's going to have now and so I think that is one of the issues with like you know the consolidation especially within poultry industry that is you know that's tough It's complex and poultry Farms are like bigger than they've ever been and so when you lose one I mean it's a big hit to the population yeah I think the numbers in poultry barns are shocking to a lot of people um just knowing that that many birds and animals are in one I've actually never personally been in a poultry Barn so I can't like personally speak to them um but it's pretty alarming like how big some of those barns are and like the numbers they can hold so like Tara mentioned absolutely when you have you know a problem whether it's electrical or whatever the fire was started by I just think that sound bite that headline really shocks people when they see the amount of birds um that were you know part of the casualty part of the problem yeah it's very sad too that's not yeah burning is is never a nice nice way to go so yeah no it's not I just think it teas I mean it just like it just makes her such a sensationalist headline it is horrible it's horrific you know I know when we covered the one farm that we did Cover like you know you had employees that were injured no one no casualty of like human life but still you had like real injuries for people and and you know that just I don't it's such a like shock piece that I think it sticks with us and then like continues to like build out from social media and I know when we covered this one Farm it was kind of crazy to see um the videos that were created from it like AI generated videos and things that were like not even real that then continued like just fearing like making so much fear in people and so I think that was that is a part of the problem too as people wanting to like go viral and like sensationalizing a terrible event yeah yeah definitely well hopefully hopefully you know we don't see too much of that in the future it's very very very sad and hopefully all those people recover well um so when you know with the the whole you know c means been making a lot I've really like to see cie and and Casey's sister making you know the the waves that they have and really getting this out there especially him because it's so interesting coming from his perspective as basically a whistleblower in the Food and Drug companies where he's he's seen this and you know if I you know forgive me if I misquote him but I I I remember him saying something to the effect of um that these these food companies processed food companies know that their food causes metabolic disease and harm and um and then you know and and and that you know they're invested in with these other companies that then treat metabolic illness and diabetes and Etc and um and so they're they're happy to profit off of off of um this even though they know it's causing human suffering they're happy to profit off of it and he said that I know they know this I know they know this causes harm because I've been in the board meetings with them when they said it and that's very powerful you know it's it's it's surprising to me that there haven't been more people before now to come out I mean it took 40 years for um for sort of that to that to come out with the sugar companies back in the 60s you know detailing how they paid off different professors to vilify cholesterol and say that sugar was safe and that was published in the journal American Medical Association they uncovered some old um uh you know minutes and uh and and internal memos and things like that from these sugar companies back in the in the 60s and um no one said a word I mean no one from this industry ever came out and said actually they know that this is killing people and hurting people and addictive and causing hard disease and that there's nothing wrong with meat there's nothing wrong with saturated fat and cholesterol um no one said anything I mean it's it's quite impressive in a way that people can be so tight lipped in such a big organization but it's also terrifying that people can be so evil that they they just have no concern for the massive impact and damage it has on uh the rest of the world they're just you know they just they're worried about their bottom line which is is wild to me and it's great to see cie and Casey coming out and blowing that uh Story bigger really hey everyone really happy to announce a new sponsor for the show and for everybody down in Australia Stockman Stakes who are delivering highquality grass-fed and finished pasture raised beef and other meats flash frozen and vacuum sealed tood door something that I've been enjoying a lot of myself recently as well they also have a great range of specialty items such as high fat keto mints and carnivore beef and organs mints with liver kidneys and and beefart as well so use code chaffy today for free order of beef mints or another specialty gift along with your order at Stockman steaks.com Au and I'll see you over there thanks guys I think what's so crazy is how long too it's taken us to like come back around like I know from the dairy side you know butter and cheese consumption is at like an all-time high um I've seen some hilarious memes and different things you know online about it but it is like it's there's a re Insurgent of like animal proteins coming back around but you think about the decade after decade that we listened to all of that research that said that fat was you know the devil and it was the enemy and that sugar was fine and let's remove I mean I still walk through the grocery store and can't believe how many nonfat options there are or how our school lunches in the United States have to be fat-free milk that's still there and it's like how in 2025 are we still so backwards on Research that we know was you know misguided at at best you know I mean flat out lies after that probably but like there is it is crazy that it it's taken us this long and we're we're barely coming back from it I definitely think though we're like trending into a new uh era of like health and wellness and the intersection of food and I think that that was definitely on like Cali and Casey's side too like they had the audience to support their message they had the audience to listen to it and want to like dig further and like Propel their message forward and that might have been lacking in Generations before you know I actually just saw a really interesting post on social media that was talking about how gen Z their consumption of alcohol is dramatically less than every you know the the Millennials the Boomers like every every other generation is outpacing them from alcohol consumption from a very vast amount granted that was just like one post right um so take it with a grain of salt to double check the numbers but I do think that there is this whole new wave of people that are looking at their health and their wellness and their food in a completely different light than like the generations before were or have been yeah well to that to that end um how are you guys feeling about the the Maha movement and and what do you how do you feel that this is going to go and do you have any any sort of predictions or hopes for for that you know it's funny as Farmers I feel like for probably the last two decades we have been like we've got to bridge the gap we've got to connect with consumers we've got to have them understand where their food comes from and I think we as Natalie said we're finally in this place where people are really curious where their food comes from and that's really exciting you know for the Maha group it's just this it's opened up this whole conversation do I agree with everything the Maha group says absolutely not do I agree with a lot of what they say absolutely um a lot of the processed food things Natalie and I I feel like pretty strongly agree with them on we're both in our households just like believe in Whole Foods we've talked about it like I don't worry that much about food dies because honestly a majority of my kids diets is whole food so on the off chance that they get like handed a ring pop or something you know I'm just not that worried about it because it's pretty pretty rare and so we we align I think in a lot of that conversation when it goes to farming I think that there's just like dialogue that needs to be had and like I as farmers and ranchers we're hopeful that like farmers and ranchers will be invited to the table to have these conversations about what makes sense to move the industry forward I think there's a lot of like lwh hanging fruit and really big loow hanging fruit that need to be taken care of and I think when you start digging into the farming side there's a lot of really good things happening in farming that don't always get highlighted you know we are using less pesticides you know less herbicides lots of farmers are moving towards more regenerative AG practices I mean I'm a conventional farm and I can list five practices off the top of my head that are moving us in a generative Direction and the same for Natalie and so I think there's a lot of exciting things and so it's just opening up those conversations that I think is going to be important moving us forward uh especially this year you know I think this is a big year for this conversation yeah definitely I think that um you know with with all the conversations that that you know you guys have been having I've been having we've been having for years now I think I think now we've sort of hit that critical mass of ground yeah sort of Grassroots mve this has caused enough of you know enough attention that you can speak about it on a national platform and actually have some support behind it it's not people going like wait what I've never heard of this what are you talking about there's not people going yet finally let's do this and so I think that's that's very hopeful you know one one thing that I I'm you know concerned about is is sometimes you see you know uh you know sort of the scapegoat or the sacrificial land and then and then nothing else like broadly changes you know they got rid of you know red Dy three I think it was and so okay so that's good okay but what about all the other dieses and the red d red D 40 yeah and the elepant in the room yeah and so they they throw out one out oh this is so horrible oh let's just get rid of that and but there's like you know the it's just the tip of the iceberg you know main event is behind you and there was you know they did this with high fructose corn syrup they started figuring out how bad fructose was and they were able to do a slide of hand which was you know all this research came out with with the problems with fructose and so because high fructose corn syrup had fructose in the name they were able to just pin it all on that and you say well this oh this is what it is it's high fructose corn syrup it's not sucrose good old sucrose table sugar natural sugar you know or whatever even though they're they're basically the same you high fructose corn syrup is 54% fructose and and 46% glucose mixed together where sucrose is just a disaccharide where they're bonded 50/50 exactly right so it's it's it's the same stuff right so you get the same amount of fructose essentially then um but I remember it was like I don't know the president of cocac colola or something like that and they were talking about how they switched to high fructose corn syrup in the 80s and then all these problem started happening and they just pinned it to that and it was such a setup interview too I don't know was like I don't know what news program it was but the lady you know great actor you know it's just like so why why did you do it why did you switch the high fructose corn like oh he just we just didn't know oh he just had oh he just had no idea oh we didn't know and so you know only we knew if you knew you wouldn't have done anything differently like shut up and um and but they blamed it all on high fructose Coran Sy and then so they went to Coca-Cola and now you start seeing these little little decals on it with like a little leaf going with natural cane sugar you know and so it's just this this you know slide of hand where they they bring fructose is bad so they say oh yes high fructose corn syrup let's get rid of that yucky fructose and we'll go back to Natural Healthy sugar it's like no it's the same stuff and so I'm I'm hoping that we we don't do that that we don't let them sort of bait and switch us and do a slide of hand and sort of do some things that we like but fundamentally the entire system stays in place and so I'm I'm really really hoping that this actually drives forward and get some actual meaningful changes yeah no I totally agree actually when we covered red dye three on the podcast uh I actually gone shopping I went into the big city so I drove an hour and a half to get to my you know uh Sam's Club so I could do some research and I picked up like Marino cherries I picked up some Gatorades like I picked up some very like what you would you know the Maha group would absolutely hate um to have in their grocery cart that was obviously red in color and not a single one of them had red three in them they had all already had red die 40 right because these food manufacturers knew that this was probably coming and they' been making the switch ahead of time and so you know when Tara and I discussed it it was it's always a hard find line balance because you're like well you don't want to be a Negative Nancy like you have to start somewhere with the food industry so I guess like this is considered a win but at the end of the day we kind kind of feel like they're just throwing us a bone and pacifying Us by being like sure we'll take away the one red Dy that no one is absolutely using right now that doesn't change any of our formulations and we'll you know be the good guy at the end of the day and be considered a win um and it's the same thing with um we talk about all the time it basically falls under the category of greenwashing which is what you're talking about is that they'll play the words and the verbage on the outside of the packaging to present themselves as a certain way to the consumer when at the end of the day like you said whatever sugar is it's still having the same effect on the body right or whatever um natural they put in front of a non-natural product like it makes the consumer feel good like they're getting something better um but they're not and so I think I mean we've talked about this a ton on the podcast and it's like a small little Soap Box I have but like we have to take care of like labeling and marketing and greenwashing on food packages because it's absolutely a problem and thankfully we kind of are like on the podcast we've covered a handful of different lawsuits now of people who are um you know food corporations that are getting sued or like having to reord packages like I think they're starting to pay attention to it cuz it's pretty wildly out of control yeah I was um I sort of thinking about that too you know we're talking about these these Dives you know these dies that aren't allowed in in Europe and elsewhere because they're they're harmful and I mean I've I've um I've spoken to pediatricians who talk about how that like that that diey and I believe it's red die 40 in in some of the the liquid kids um you know whatever cough medicine painkillers whatever they they they are well known to cause behavioral issues and kids can get really you know agitated and upset and it's like that's exactly what you need when a kid's sick already you know is just you know piss them off and stir it up but um you know so that's something that's been noticed so you know I I do think that those are positives but you know one thing that you know thinking that again is um looking at the like the oh the the high fructose corn syrup that's so bad what about the rest of the stuff in the coke you know and what about the rest of the stuff in the Froot Loops you know we're arguing over the dye that you use and yes there there are better D to use but Froot Loops are really bad you know like and so you know that's the main thing and and we you I know it's been said a lot and I know RFK has said it that you know Americans are the sickest people in the world but we're really not like we're actually very sick but we're also on par with a lot of other Western countries and we're not as bad as some places like India India has three times are diabetes rates right they they don't have red die 40 in their fro Loops they don't they can't afford Froot Loops it's very different sort of demographic so there's something else going on as well but you know it's it well you know processed food sort of gets everywhere but I mean I was in doing humanitarian work in like the jungles of Bangladesh in the refugee camp and and we'd be you know driving in it would take a while to get into the refugee camp you're going through jungles and there's just little Villages every now and then no one has shoes but they've got grass like roof Huts selling Ruffles potato chips and gummy bears and things like that I like how the hell did that get into the middle of the Jungle and how are you guys affording this you know you you don't even have shoes and um but it it's out there because it's stuff so addictive it's so pable they they want it they they what money they get together they get for that as a treat they have no trash they they they're not equipped to deal with plastic in the middle of the Jungle they don't have a garbage service so they burn it they burn all the the plastic trash the air quality there in the middle of of Virgin jungle with wild elephants is just it's like black tar smoke everywhere and it's it's really nasty and um you know but but I think that's like a major thing you because like 90% of the deaths in America are from these non-communicable chronic diseases 89% of the deaths are from non-communal chronic disease in Australia it's about the same with other Western countries so we're all getting very sick and we're all having problems and yeah I'd say that that America's way up there but you know it's it's not because of the red die 40 that contributes to it but it's all the rest of the process garbage and and so we need to get through that first that first layer and really get through know this whole industry is is is really just morally bankrupt and we really can't let it uh continue in this fashion yeah that's a big thing we talked about actually when we covered red die number three was like removing it doesn't make whatever it is healthy and also as consumers we have to take some responsibility for the fact that we vote with our dollars like there is evidence to show like Froot Loops removed the dieses and people were so mad that the colors were ugly that they put them back in right like that's that was like they showed that in their data that like sales decrease so like we're also telling these companies what we want and there is like obviously it's hyper palatable there's other things at play there's food deserts like all these things but like we are voting with our dollar and I actually was listening to something the other day that was like talking about Coca-Cola's fastest growing product right now is actually a milk-based product and it was a good reminder that's like we can actually do some really cool things as consumers if we vote with our dollar but it's like getting enough of us to do that and going back to like I think as we've said like this is that moment where a lot of people are taking notice a lot of people are changing their buying habits and I think it will like you said I hope it's not a bait and switch and I hope we actually see real change because of this you know this movement and what people are buying yeah definitely I mean I I know that that these things can be bad I mean there was a there's a video that started making the rounds of um of a of a doctor you know re researcher I think it was back in the 60s or the 70s but they they showed videos of these kids that were just very calm nice happy little kids and then they would give them some sort of processed food substance or another and they say now watch the change and all they just start getting agitated they start throwing tantrum start throwing things and screaming just throwing a fit just being a kid but is it is that being a kid and just a a misbehaving kid who's just throwing a tantrum or is there something going WR long you know chemically that's that's screwing with them because of what they're eating and they're ingesting and it's damaging them and then we see them well this kid just acts out okay let's medicate them and that's that that next step is that you're giving them something that causes harm and then you're also having to you're manufacturing a problem that now you know go need need to go um buy a cure for um there was another gentleman he was a he was a um chemist I can't remember his name but he he sort of a whistleblower a while ago as well and he was saying he was a chemist for um these pharmaceutical companies and he thought that he was there saving the world and helping people and and um really what they were doing was just trying to treat symptoms they're like you do not look for cures you say you were told this you do not look for cures you treat symptoms you treat manage symptoms and um and the thing is is that you know when you run out of problems to treat you know with patentable drugs you need to start like inventing them and this s was like in Psychiatry there's all these different problems that they sort of just manufactured and oh here's this for you know restless leg syndrome and you know do you sometimes feel sad when you see birds try this pill you know and like it's like it's it's you just make up all these different conditions and then here's a pill and you start loading people with it um so yeah it's quite it's quite remarkable but you know those videos of those kids freaking out you know that really makes you think about you know the problems that we have now and could this be very explainable just by what we're giving them yeah I think sorry I'll jump in I think that another piece Natalie and I always talk about coming from like the farming side of things that we maybe don't talk enough about beyond the food is like our activity levels how much time are like we and our kids getting outoors um you know we've also like changed so many things about our lifestyles Beyond just food right like just how long are kids in front of screens and in fluorescent lights instead of being outside and and I think that has to be piece of this conversation too Natalie you were gonna say something yeah no I forgot oh sorry Natalie so that's okay I'm like what was I gonna say you only talked for literally like five seconds I no I tried to keep it short and sweet so you could cut back in no but one thing I was thinking about um when you were talking with the kids in the dies this is a little bit of a side tangent but it made me think one piece that I think will be very very interesting to watch onplay moving forward um is state regulations so I feel like again since tar and I have been paying attention to the headlines in a way we haven't before I mean maybe this has been going on you know before now but um now that my eyes are on you know the headlines every single week I think it's been interesting to see different states step forward and try and ban different things I just pulled up on the podcast because I wanted to double check I couldn't remember if it was Alabama or Arkansas but it was Arkansas we just covered them on the podcast maybe a month ago that they trying to implement um Implement a Statewide ban on you know they called it like junk food but who knows what it would actually be into you know uh California has obviously been leading the way like with different um Bannings of dyes I saw a headline that Oklahoma was looking at being one of the first states to actually ban red Die 4 you know we've covered Florida State who wanted to ban lab grown meat and so I do think it'll be interesting to kind of see um if people are so convicted if you have especially you know policy politicians like people in governmental positions that are very convicted in this you know Health this intersection of health and food uh what will we see come out of some of these different states trying to do it if you can't get it done on a federal level right like what are we going to see with each individual one well that's a very very good point you know because doing this at a state level is really important you can't just wait for you know the federal government that that's not how you know our system was set up in the first place was supposed to be local you know your community say what's best for our community on up and and at the state level these are sovereign states they're supp I mean I didn't I didn't get taught that as a kid you have to like drag that out of people um my parents were my parents were were were taught everything about the Constitution and how the the country was formed and and functions and then that goes away and you sort of taught that oh everything comes from top down Federal this that it's not the case you know we can do this at the state level and the more states that start to do this state at the state and local start level start to do this you know then that that can f fill Dr you don't need you don't need um you know Federal legislation for this it can you can just do this on your own and um and that will affect the the markets as well because once we're voting with our pocketbooks once we're you know getting local legislators to um affect these changes they're going to have to shift gears and they're going have to say look this this isn't a viable um know business model anymore we're going to have to we're going to have to switch gears and do something that people actually want and doesn't kill them you know that I mean you know like that's simp yeah so um you know just it's something anyway but yeah doing it at the state level is very good I I did see recently with Cali Cali means again he was um he was arguing in front of the state legislature State Legislature in Arizona for getting um soda out of the snap the um the food stamps budget because he worked on this on the other side of that apparently like he like worked as a consultant um to try to uh you know get like the end of ACP and other sorts of communities to basically say that um you're racist if you took you stopped people from using food stamps to buy soda right was just like no that's that's um this just this stuff is horrible this stuff is terrible for you you know and and you can't buy alcohol you can't buy cigarettes with it why should why should you be buying sodas as well yeah we actually covered this on the podcast too it was one of our articles one week um and it was actually really interesting one of the things we do on our podcast um that we love to do is obviously the podcast episode is tar and I and it's our opinions and what we think of it and um obviously kind of stops there and we love to I mean we have such a um we call them discos but they are just um I would say like in tune like they're very interested they have like diverse opinions they're coming from different backgrounds and so it's really fascinating actually to like kind of pull our audience so usually you know the week after the podcast and sometimes before if we talk about an article before or tease it or whatever um but we're always carrying the conversation over to like our Instagram page and so a lot of times in stories we'll pull them and we'll ask them like what do you think of this you know give us your opinion and I was actually shocking um how split the opinions were um on soda being allowed under snap um and it's kind of interesting to sit back and here people will write you very long detailed explanations of why they feel one way or the other we had people who message in that were you know grew up on snap and so they're like I feel like I can actually talk about this and they gave their opinions and it was alarming because I felt like you know me going into it I kind of thought it would be one way and most people would say no I don't think it should be um but again it was kind of shocking to me how it was like such 5050 um when we pulled our community no that is interesting what what were some of the arguments for keeping sodas on the snap program um a lot of it was usually just about like free choice um that we shouldn't have the right to like coming back to food Choice essentially that we shouldn't have the right to dictate what someone puts into their grocery cour cart or not um a lot of people give examples that like they're predominantly eating healthy but they love to have a treat too or you know they're eating a balanced diet but that doesn't mean they don't enjoy a Coca-Cola themselves so like why wouldn't someone else be able to also do that um so I don't know it was really like I said it was um pretty fascinating yeah I think the food Choice was a big piece of it and if you look at it from like the flip side like if you think about school lunches kind of like think about that they like mandate meatless Mondays you know as a Dairy Farmer I'm obviously not thrilled about the you know no whole milk in school lunches and so I feel like some of the conversation too was like where will the decisions be made like where will lines be made that like this is ultra process this is process so it's okay or like what will happen um what will be the strict you know guidelines and so there was some conversation around that too that was like I don't like people the government like telling me what I can and cannot eat um I don't always trust them they've led us astray before and so like obviously I don't know that there's a strong argument that coke is healthy for us ever but like I I could see where someone was kind of coming from that like okay first it's Coke like what is next and what's the product after that and where does this conversation go um when ultimately like should people be allowed to have food choice and so yeah as Natalie said I mean it was really split and every time you'd hear an argument sometimes you would be kind of like okay like I guess that makes sense um and so it was an interesting discussion for sure yeah I think that's the importance of having the discussions you know because we we form an opinion based on you know the the facts and evidence that we've seen and we think well yeah this has to be this has to be the way based on what you've seen but then you have other people looking at from a different point of view and they and they give a different argument I didn't think about it like that okay and yeah exactly so you know that was the um that was the the famous quote by John Stewart Mill in his book on Liberty um where he said that um if you only know your side of the argument then you don't know much that you have to listen to the other side of the argument in its most compelling form from its most Ardent um you know Defender not just listening to you know someone on your side saying well this is what the argument is and this is why they're wrong which is what most people do um you need to go out and look at the other argument and say okay because otherwise you don't know what the argument is you just know what somebody else said the argument is but you don't actually know what someone else is saying and um and also I think you know Thomas Soul said this and I think it's probably the definition of of open being open-minded is he said that you know it it actually is possible and normal for two people to look at the same piece of information and intelligently and honestly come to different conclusions and you have to accept that um as far as the soda is concerned obviously I don't want people eating things that are bad for them um and then we say well you should have food Choice can we really call soda food you know is it is it really is it providing you know nutritional you know um EMB betterment a lot of these arguments come you know are EMB bettering the food companies I mean that's why they put Cali means on it in the first place to go and and list the NAACP to call everybody racist if you took that took it out but you know there there are people that can certainly say well you know I'm just going to have one every now and then there's others that can't it's designed to be addictive it is a drug and so okay is this there for food to get people who are having a tough time so that they can get proper nutrition or is it to provide them ENT mment and do whatever the hell they want it's not an allowance this is this is an emergency safety net for people that aren't able to afford food to survive and so you know that they get helped with tax money to survive it's not there to just you know you know do whatever they want with um and so I think that's that's a good argument too is that you know that's that's not what that money is for it's not just an allowance it's not just your salary and you know you're not being told to not buy something with money that you earn this is something else this is this is meant for this and I think that in those circumstances they do get to say what you can't can't they say you can't buy cigarettes you can't buy alcohol you can't buy those sorts of things it's it's food or food adjacent products such as Coca-Cola but um you know but it's always interesting to hear other sides of the story as well and and to see how many people think you know very very differently than you for you know very good reasons sometimes I love that quote I'm gonna stick that in my back pocket you'll probably hear me say that on the podcast all the time now but I really love that if you don't if you only know your side of the story you don't know much at all I think that's um very well said yeah it's a it's a longer quote it's brilliant yeah you should definitely check it out it's it's a his book is called on Liberty and it's a it's a longer quote from that but it's yeah it's it's absolutely you know brilliant to point that out that you if you don't know if you haven't if you haven't gone to a lecture or something like that from somebody else who you hate and actually listen to what they have to say and and and be open to it okay what is this guy saying yeah then you don't even know you have no idea what the argument is in the first place it's quite it's quite nice when you see people do that there's so so many people that you see sometimes that have have a public platform and they were ardently on the other side and they were just like oh you're so horrible and evil and I hate everybody who thinks differently and so they they did that they went to somebody's talk or something like that who thought was just was just awful and I'm going to come here and I'm just see all the ways that they're wrong and they're like God damn it they makes that makes a lot of sense and and then they start coming around going like oh have I been looking at this the wrong way and then they start looking into it deeper and and they come to the conclusion that they have and so it's it's nice to see that I think it's it's definitely within human nature to to do that it's just some people have closed themselves off from the possibility of even doing that and you know that's obviously the definition of being close-minded yeah and I feel like with social media it's not helping because you're going to get fed what you want to see right like in some way some of these conversations get narrower and narrower um because of you know our algorithms and so being able to have those discussions I think is an important piece yeah absolutely it's Al it's also kind of crazy too I think about this a lot and we've like talked about it on the podcast before too but um and I don't know if this is society in general or if like uh social media has kind of like spread this into society a little bit but I feel as though it's no longer um almost okay for someone to change their mind too you know we saw this a lot with people that were you know plant-based before and then switching to uh meat and obviously that's like a little bit different because it has like a whole a whole other complex of like feelings and thoughts and kind of Dogma around it um but you you know it's you you had said earlier that it is uh human nature and it should be to hear other opinions and I believe it's nature and it should be to evolve your opinion um and we're just not seeing that anymore so I feel like whether it's a social media account that feels like they can't because their followers are going to be upset that they have like learned something and changed their mind or it's a social media account that feels like they can't say something differently than what they said a month ago because then they'll be like well you don't even know you were confused like why should we listen to you and it's like we're kind of taking away that basic right we've always had to be like I don't know everything I learned a new piece of information and now I have formed a new opinion and I think that happens a lot in the food space online and I think it's like another barrier to having like um essentially like solving some of the bigger problems to the food system or doing things that actually move the needle um because we're having um some of these like inflammations I think like put on us from social media a little bit yeah very true and you getting little your Echo Chambers and things like that and and you know yeah your algorithm and the people that you follow but and then the other other side of that is is what um you know these companies like meta Etc what do they want you to see and sometimes they they'll show you only the things that you want and they'll black out others or put a warning like oh this is false information or something like that i' I've actually seen that recently sort of seeing these fact Checker things saying this is false and then you click on okay so why are you saying this is false that information is not available at the moment okay so you're just gonna you're just gonna say that it's false but you're not going to say why it's like okay you know did you listen to uh Zuckerberg on Joe Rogan talk about uh Facebook and like checking the analysis the fact Checkers and everything uh I'm I didn't watch the whole thing I saw bits and pieces of it but I don't think I saw that part it was really interesting to hear him talk about um and you know there's lots of people saying reasons why he you know has come out to now have this like quote unquote change of heart about you know Facebook meta's um approach to this but it was really interesting to hear him talk about um how essentially they were wrong to do those fact Checkers like some of the pressure put on them for fact Checkers um was actually really interesting to hear him talk about it too from like a almost um technology standpoint where he was talking about he was giving an example talking about how you have this misinformation and if you dial it in too tight then you are getting fact checking on things that aren't don't need to be right so you're getting false factchecking um but on the other hand if it's too loose he's like you're letting too much misinformation go so it was interesting to hear him too talk about kind of like some of the things we wouldn't even think about like when it comes to like logistically setting fact Checkers um but he also talked a little bit about how like uh you know X is now a free speech platform and I think you're seeing a lot of people love that and so Facebook is kind of switching to adapt to some of the ways that um you know ex's historically handled it with like uh they have Community notes I think is what it is or something and so I don't know it was a fascinating discussion um that I will again be interesting looking forward to see because that I mean media is how we get social media is how we get news now it is how we converse and carry forward and so it does play a really big role like you said when you are having things whether it's false not being fact checked or true being fact checked um the way we get our public knowledge and the way we're like having conversations and approaching changes we want to make um so it'll be interesting looking forward to see like if that makes a difference or not yeah I think one of the crazy things on social media I know I've been like fact checked especially when it comes to environmental impact of cattle that every time if I say something I'll get a fact checked on it and I followed it through to like fight it before and one time I was quoting directly from EPA of how much cattle's like greenhouse gas Admissions and it was like well according to Australia there was this study that said and so it also like that like thinking about the back end like it's like okay so who which fact Checkers get to be right like so Australia holds more you know weight than like EPA in the United States like and that was I was like this is nuts like this is accurate information and I got yeah I got fact checked and like put in you know Facebook jail so the joys of that and so it is kind of crazy um thinking about like yeah where where the fact checks are coming from hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option so I like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25% off total all right thanks guys yeah and and and I think it's a it's a beauitful weapon to try to platform people and say well this person's been fact checked multiple times I I was on uh 60 Minutes Australia and they were interviewing me about the carnivore die and things like that and um you know it was classic sort of hitpiece sort of thing wasn't too bad but it was um they did set me up and paint me you know put me lump me in with all these people they're like selling supplements and things like that and like during this like three-hour conversation they took five minutes from um and it was a decent five minutes I have to give them that but I explicitly said you know this is a way to get people off supplements off medication they don't need to spend a bunch of money this is just they just need to eat properly and they they can just be healthy they don't need a product for this they get them away from those products and they lump me in this category of all these people just trying to sell these supplements they just make up this problem and then sell you the the I'm like that was exactly what I was saying this gets away from you know and they lump me in with that but um you know in that too they're like oh this you know this you know perth-based doctor been fact checked multiple times you know these Jesus you and the fact checks like I I I pursued these as well and I fought with them and it's just like it's they're you know it's just complete nonsense what they say like I had one thing where I was talking um to someone we were talking about you know like methane and things like that I pointed out I was like well it's actually not cows don't make methane this is part of the ruminant process this fermentation process from the bacteria so it's not the cows doing this it's the bacteria doing this and the breakdown of this plant material happens um in or outside of the cow and there's oh well you know the the conditions inside the cow gives a you know it's the bacteria doing it and if they're going to break down out in the nature as well it's going to be from this bacteria and it's going to be the same exact amount of methane is going to come out because that's how chemistry works you balance the equation you have this chemical with this chemical goes to this chemical right that's how that works and so if you if you complete that um chemical process that you you finish off that equation out to the end with use all the substrate you are going to have the exact same amount of methane at the end of of the day and you know so I pointed that out and they were like and there were just you know they said this is false and all that sort of nonsense and that well actually in cows it is not NE some places are dry and it's not GNA was like oh just shut up and there was like and there was like a number of like um academics and things like that they came out and said my my exact same thing and I said like Hey listen there's more and more people saying this this is what I'm saying you know I want to I want this to be retracted I want an apology and they were like well we looked into it and we still think you're wrong like and that's it that's end the conversation yeah and so yeah it's just ridic but if you look at what I said all I said was that cows don't make methane bacteria make methane that is a factually true statement like there's there's no disputing that and um but yeah they just they want to they want to stick these labels on you because they want to shut you up and they want to they want to make it they want they want to discredit you and make it look like this is not this is not a credible source that you should listen to they've been fact checked but now because that they've just done that too much they've overplayed their hand um on my first i' had two fact checks at this point which is actually shocking that I haven't had more but um they're always on environmental stuff though and and um but on the first one that that that happened it um I had just a a Litany of comments that just said well now I trust you more you know it's like this is better if you're getting fact checked you must inedibility now I was gonna say at least you're saying something worth factchecking you know like what are the other people saying well there's that too yeah I um I I did see uh someone someone like made a meme about it or you know short clip about Zuckerberg trying to like you know relate to Joe Rogan and you know some people think that like maybe he's just she's trying to claw back some credibility after doing some messed up things and say oh no it was really you know I'm cool now I'm cool Zuck now and all that sort of stuff and U and one of the things he was talking about how cool bow hunting was and how that's really like the best way to do it and so he's talking to like an avid bow hunter it's just like yeah and so Joe R oh yeah what kind of bow do you have he's like forget well yeah it's been such a while I haven't really gone this year like do you know one name of one brand of Bose Zuckerberg and it's like answer was no couldn't think of anything it's always funny to see that um but a meeme going around right now of like you know Zuckerberg from like 10 years ago and then Zuckerberg now um obviously like you said big difference cuz he has gotten into like um one of the martial arts I think and I can't remember which one so he has like beefed up a little bit just from like physical appearance so the photos you know were quite a ju position and I'm sure whoever made the meme like chose the the most jarring differences they could between one human um but it was like Zuck on seed oils versus Zuck on beef Tallow and so it's funny but yeah he's getting a lot of FL wi rightfully so I've actually I listened to an interesting conversation and people could put this in like kind of conspiracy not totally but they were talking about how they uh believe some people think that uh meta Zuckerberg uh hired almost essentially like a brand strategist for him to like redo His Image because as you said he had like strayed so far and seeing again how popular X was and some of the different things with meta and the backlash and like at the end of the day he's afraid of losing his platforms 100% And so it was interesting to think about like gosh is like is this like a brand strategy campaign that he's you know like rolling out with like new and improved 2.0 Zuckerberg or the people yeah I would I would be willing to bet money that that is definit yeah and um and even if it wasn't even his his will his marketing department probably came to like we need to do something about no one likes you all of this yeah and U you know like you know you know getting back to the fact Checkers too you he's talking about well so difficult the fact you know who put you in charge you know who put these people in charge of fact checking like who who are these fact Checkers who decides who gets the fact check them who made them the Arbiters of Truth you know I mean some of these I mean I I do they have an education are the these people that they're factchecking people who work in you know the agricultural Community who's a who's you know licens and practicing physician talking about our fields and you no fact checks I'm like who are you you know like you someone with like a sociology degree and you and you just got out of college and now you're you're factchecking people you don't know enough about the argument to ask the right questions to to know who's right or wrong about this you know it what they do is they they for some reason Target someone that they don't like and then they try to find reasons why they can say this was false right and that's what they they did with me I'm and that's what they did with you too they said well this is a quote from the EPA oh but you know the you know some guy in the outback named dingo Dan he said that you know something else and let's blame everything on dingo Dan that's yeah exactly and um you know but it's just like okay well then don't fact check me fact check the EPA right yeah and um you know but they don't do that they they find they just try to find some reason you know and for me they found some guy who made some you know Twisted convoluted argument about you know in different humidity levels and and places and this and the other the the release of methane might be quicker or less or this it's not what I said it's not what I said I just said the bacteria make the methane because they they're the ones with cellulase and they're the ones that can degrade fiber and so I don't I don't think that they're doing this honestly I think they're they're targeting people directly and then trying to find reasons why they can fact check them and and it's just it's just you know just an excuse It's plausible Deni well no we we found this this thing that you you could argue fact checks it but it's it's I don't think they're trying to keep things you know keep misinformation out because i' I've you know reported people that blatant lies like verifiable d dangerous lies and oh we've decided this is this is fine because they're not you know somebody that they're concerned about have you talked about um environmental things lately you know methane like have you had any of those conversations lately not lately I had I had previously I feel I I asked because I'm so curious I feel you know one thing that Tara and I talk about or have you know on different articles is like um we would venture and be brave enough to say that you know the people behind some of these movements are really large activist groups right like there there was absolutely like in our in our belief um a proponent to um the cows conver uh climate change conversation that wasn't coming from you know like environmental Advocates that was coming from like animal activists who were using this you know to further press uh push their you know their agenda right like that's that's the Trojan Horse for them essentially um and I'm so curious because I feel like l you know when we used to guest on podcast we' get asked like we want to talk about cattle and carbon footprint and methane and all these things and I'm like lately no I don't feel like people are talking about that anymore and I'm like did did those the money essentially the driving force realize that like this sugarcoated sentence wasn't going to work like they weren't able to pull the eyes over on people or not you know like that I'm so curious if that is like what happened on the back end cuz I'm like I just don't I don't see people talking about it I don't see fact checks on you know environmental claims anymore like all of a sudden it's gone and I'm like why like what what happened there it's a it's a very good question I mean I I you know people are still making those arguments but yeah I don't think it's as fervent and well they still are making it I mean I definitely see vegans still making that argument that you know that sort of that three-pronged argument that you know nutritionally meets bad for you plants are sent from God we're in the Garden of Eden and you know and um uh besides apples everything's great right so and um and then like the environmental argument and then the ethical argument they say however you look at this everything points to never eat meat again I would on those same three principles I would come to different conclusions that you should only ever eat meat again on on those exact principles you know you kill more animals to grow one kilo of of plant-based protein that you do animal-based protein that's long before you get into um uh you know bioavailability and quality of that protein and all the other nutrients that come in into it but just raw raw data and that's um that's from a study from University of New South Wales you know Australia and Australia is always right all studies from Australia right so obviously that's fine and um um that was in 2011 and then um so that's ethically environmentally you can you have to destroy entire ecosystems to grow one single crop whereas animals replenish the land they they give manure they recycle nutrients they're part of the environment and they make it better if you do it right and then nutritionally you know for all the reasons I talk about so you know um but I think that the arguments have been made well on our side to the point that that people have taken those and are there there it's it's not like a highlevel argument now with you know like the adults yelling at each other like this has gone out into everywhere like you'll see in the comment section on something where this is talking about me like oh well this destroys the Environ this blah blah blah blah I mean I don't even need to wait in because there's like 50 people to just jump what the hell are you talking about and they just like all the all the arguments that you know we would want to make they've already made for us and so I think that that's that's quieted the noise a lot well because yeah they're not making ground on that they're just not making ground they were that was a good tactic for a while and now they are just not uh getting anywhere with it because people know the lies they know the facts now and and they're and they're pissed they're pissed that they've been lied to and been manipulated and they're they're willing to say it yeah I think that also people like inherently care about themselves like more than the planet like I know that sounds terrible but I I do believe that and so I think people felt not good like eating plant-based diets and when they reintroduce animal protein they feel better and so it makes other arguments like null and void because they feel better you know like that's the ultimate test for them is how it impacts their life you know they can't you can't like tangibly like grab a hold of if cattle were even the problem right like you can't feel that problem in the way you can feel like feeling better inside your body and so I think that's a piece of it too and then on some level I think like 10 years ago we got very like away from nature and this whole thing of like where your food comes from and getting back to Nature and grounding and like red light and all of the things that are happening are also setting us up that people are like maybe all the things that we've introduced into Our Lives is like creating some of the problem like the foods we've never eaten before and now we suddenly are versus like animal proteins that we've been eating a long time so I think there's like a few things at play but I agree with you with both of you guys that it's just we're in a different landscape now than we were and it's just not working that messaging is not having the same impact as it it was even 10 years ago yeah definitely like when when I moved to Australia six years ago now it was it was wildly um moving plant-based like it that that really had a strong strangle hold on Australia and everyone was just going plant-based plant paste plant paste and so when I you know when people ran into me and they found that I only eat meat I mean I people's heads were exploding like I had I had this conversation where I had to give the entire spiel about you know why I I do this and what you know and they always ask the same well what about cholesterol what about cancer and what about this and are you missing by I'd have to have that conversation two to three times every single day there wasn't there wasn't a single day it was less than two times it was two to three times every single it was it was like it was tiring you know it's like everyone you meet people you work with and um and it was just it was just on and on like that it was like that was everything that that I was talking about for a while and because people just so blown away by that but then it just started sort of Shifting and moving and uh and now you know I I mean this was even I don't know maybe months8 months into having a podcast I started getting patients recognizing me in the hospital at 2 a.m. you know I'm there admitting a patient who had a block um you know V VP shunt so ventricular perinal shunt where you have hydris you have to shun that excess fluid down into your abdomen so this is part of um he was one of our Neurosurgical patients he had a block shunt so I'm seeing him and then I came back to like get some of his notes and he just asked me he's like hey can I ask you a question and I said yeah sure he said um do you just like only eat Meats I was like yes like why why do you ask and he's like well actually you know I follow you on social media you know really like your videos I've been thinking about trying it myself I was like oh that's great and um and and since then you more and more people have started to do this and and more and more doctors that I worked with started started doing this and and finding benefits in not only in their own health but in their patients health and they started really getting excited about it and I think that this is a this could be something very positive in the medical community because a lot of people I've spoken to were were really burning out as doctors because you you work for decades and everything you're doing is going nowhere you're not helping anybody they're just you just see them getting worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and then you know dying of horrible illnesses you know decades down the road and and you're not helping anyone you come to the and then you start getting sick and you start getting the diabetes and you start getting all the problems that you're seeing your patients die from and you realize yeah I'm I'm not helping anybody and I'm not even helping myself and it gets very discouraging and depressing and you're seeing more and more patients I remember one guy was telling me that you know after 40 years every single year he had more and more people on his docket and he had less and less time to see them and um and then then they figured this out and they just Revitalize and regener like wow I can actually help people I can actually get them better and um so so that was really positive and I I get a lot of messages from doctors saying that this has helped them get the the love of medicine back because they're actually they're actually helping people again and they can use medicine as an adjunct when something goes wrong but the Baseline the basis that 90% of mortalities in the western western world are coming from you know chronic diseases that they they have a handle on now and um and then you know to your point uh with patients I had U I've had a number of patients that were very you know you worried about doing like a meat only diet you talk about all the different sorts of things and give them resources and uh and and some of them um like one lady in particular but this has happened multiple times her daughter really pressured her to go onto a plant-based diet and she had a lot of excess weight she was actually putting more weight on on this plant-based diet and um and not feeling well at all and her daughter was just so like no you have to do this this is this is terrible it destroys the environment it's killing things all these sorts of things and were able to convince her uh I was able to convince her or my um colleague and I were able to convince her to um to just try it and just go on for two weeks and see what happens and and she really struggled with her weight and she was like okay how' it go were you able do yeah you know I did do it but oh I don't know I don't know if I can do this and this that the other and um and he just said you know before we go on why don't you just hop on the scale we'll see how you've done and you told her you know don't step on the scale until you come back she dropped like 15 pounds 15 16 pounds in two weeks you know she she'd been really struggling with her weight prior to that and all of a sudden you just see this change in her face she's like well I think I think maybe I just need to focus on my own health you know I think that's what's um that's what's important I just need to not worry about saving the planet right now I need to just you know make sure I'm I'm alive and at the end of this and you know sometimes that's enough and then you start and that opens the door say okay look actually this works and I feel a lot better and I'm getting a lot of health benefits you know tell me again about how the environmental Parts and you know and then it's it sinks in there as well so um thankfully I think this is this is moving in the right direction hopefully we can keep pushing it in that direction yeah I think for sure we are I mean I have followed more bloggers and seen them go from plant-based to talking about you know their meat Bowls in the morning and you know their colostrum they're taking and you know the raw milk that they're drinking um I mean I think we're absolutely coming kind of Full Circle back around and it's really cool to see animal protein at the center of that and kind of get you know the Limelight it deserves and you know had at one point um and obviously we're biased in saying that because um we're and not because I raised the animal but because I feel like I'm biased in saying that because I have grown up eating protein my entire life right like I didn't realize that that's not what people do is like create you know their meal around animal protein almost at every single breakfast lunch and dinner like that's just how I grew up eating for 37 years of my life so you know I'm biased in being like I'm so glad animal protein's getting you know the Limelight again because it is good for us it is good for women it's important to have in our diets um so yeah it's cool one of the things we do on the podcast uh every once in a while it's kind of like a fun little segment if something's going viral we'll like taste test it or you know drink test it if it's a drink and uh I don't know what was it like six weeks ago um uh bone broth hot chocolate was going viral on Tik Tok and so we obviously tried that on the podcast but I remember you know as we're talking about it just you couldn't have I mean I had seen tar and I talked about a lot like the pendulum swinging like we could see people were starting to shift away and make some of these changes and like understand you know environmental claims aren't there and you know I am feeling better like this is how we should be eating but I don't think you could have paid me to believe you that you know viral uh Tik Tok would be bone broth hot chocolate like you would be having you know influencers and bloggers con like consuming uh bone broth and so it's been kind of fun to see something that is so good for people like come back into our diets and kind of like the social media line light so that's actual hot chocolate in bone broth uhhuh yeah you use it as has like the base instead of you know water or milk I hate to ask but what was what was it like it was surprisingly good I would say if you were used to having Starbucks hot chocolate it was not that like it was not as sweet as that um but you know and it had a little bit of like the bone broth flavor but it actually was not terrible like I feel like if you are looking for like a morning like I don't drink coffee and so I feel like if you are looking for like a morning warm drink it was right before Christmas I feel like that it was going viral so like very very much like that feeling of you know Christmas you know having a warm glass with something in the morning and so I don't know it wasn't terrible it wasn't terrible surprisingly that is surprising I had to J mine up though I think because they definitely took some Jing like some cinnam the bone broth I had on hand was like a turmeric you know it had like some flavoring to it and so I think I remember pouring like Fair life um chocolate I had kind of in there with it so I kind of you know I I made a concoction but L terrible that's funny I I yeah I'll you know I'll leave list to you all believe you girl she's like no thanks take your word on that yeah that's funny well um thank you both so much it's been an absolute pleasure is is there anything else you guys uh you would like to say or tell us uh how we can find you and follow you and see more of your work uh yeah definitely if you are listening to this you're probably like a podcast person um so go check us out on our podcast discover a podcast we're also over on YouTube and then you can find us on all the social channels so our podcast has um an Instagram page and as Natalie said it's a pretty fun place I think to hang out and have these conversations our comment section is like usually a very interesting place to see good discussions like back and forth um of people within agriculture outside of a like giving their opinions about different like food related topics and so that's at Discover a podcast and then you can also find us on our personal channels both Natalie and I um have our personal Instagrams as well um Natalie's also pretty big on X so you can find her over there as well on the you know Free Speech platform lovely all right well thank you both so much it was great to see you both again and um yeah thanks for taking the time it was just lovely to see you both I'll put um links down in the description where people can find your work and please do go find and follow them both and uh see more of their stuff because it's great thank you both so much great to see you and hopefully see you again soon yeah thanks for having us good to see you no problem hey guys thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say if you like it then please like And subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcast and if you're on YouTube then please hit that little bell and subscribe and that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out which should be every week if not more and if you could share this with your friends that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing thanks again guys