Crohn’s Disease And The Carnivore Diet | Mitchell Thompson

welcome to the plantree MD podcast with Dr Anthony chaffy where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically hello everyone thank you for joining me for another episode of the plant-free MD podcast I'm your host Dr Anthony chaffy and today I have a special guest Mitchell Thompson who is going to be telling us about his story uh with Dy lifestyle and Recovery Mitchell thank you so much for coming on thank you for having me it's great to be here yeah you're very welcome so for people haven't come across you can you tell us a bit about you and and a bit about your story yeah so my name is Mitchell Thompson I'm a health professional personal trainer I started off as a personal trainer like most people that I think in are former athletes that get involved in the health space right um and I took a a big interest specifically on nutrition you're not going to like it but the cover to that book having an apple it isn't the best um but I was I was you know a nut I was a personal trainer who was really diving into the field of nutrition and I was really exploring sort of you know how everybody explores their dietary options and last November you know everything was going normal and I lived a pretty healthy you know lifestyle other than the bad foods that athletes they can think they can get away with because they're able to indulge in it in um without consequence so last November I got diagnosed with crohn's disease I um thought that I had just gastroenteritis it was one of those ordeals where you know I felt the cramping I felt the bloating I felt all the flu like symptoms and when ID went to the hospital they actually qualified they actually diagnosed me saying that they um said I had Crohn's disease given that the first thought I had elitis which again Crohn's is just a form of elitis right chronic elitis and they thought it was maybe an appendix issue and they ultimately concluded that it was Crohn's disease and so you know I throughout all of November and December I lost over 45 almost 50 lbs I went from 198 lbs to 153 lb and I was essentially told to do what most people are told to do I was told to follow a high fiber diet I was told to eat a lot of greens a lot of vegetables I was told to avoid meat and when everything that the doctors told me to do wasn't working I decided to venture out on my own and I came across the likes of yourself Robert um syes um sha Baker Ken Barry all these different actual doctors who were saying things that were in contrary to what the doctors in low little old Missouri were telling me and lo and behold I decide to follow what you guys were talking about and within a few weeks I found symptom remission I found symptom relief and I'm now about 6 months removed from a strict carnivore ketogenic diet and I would now say I'm in the true stages of remission so yeah amazing so how long did it take you on on a carnivore diet to get um uh well recovery from your symptoms of Crohn's and then what you would consider full remission are you familiar with Jordan Ruben from like the 1990s early 2000s I don't know if I am who's that guy yeah well he he was one of the first people that had like Crohn and went about promoting a way to relieve the symptoms of Crohns and IBD okay and he called he had what was known as the maker diet and so I followed his maker diet which was again it was a lot of like carbs and and vegetables and like there was a super greens blend that you had to drink you know and every time I drank it my cramps got worse and I was wondering why and so I followed their protocol for a few weeks and then when I went straight red meat salt and water the chaffy protocol it was about a week that I started seeing symptom relief and after about 3 weeks I saw true symptom relief in the sense that I wasn't having almost I was asymptomatic yeah nice yeah wow and that was just straight up beef Lam in water just yeah not even lamb it was just the fattiest cut of ground beef I could find and then it was salt yep I would just dous it with salt water and then I think it was maybe two weeks in I introduced steak so I started introducing steak about two weeks in yeah nice yeah and then well that's great and um and then did you get like biopsy to kind of to see what was going on at some point as well yeah so they it was the end of the year right so November is when I got diagnosed and December is when they were planning to get me in for an emergency colonoscopy I mean doc you tell me I'm in the hospital when I was in the hospital they had me I had essentially no food no fluid I had no flu food only fluids for two days I I didn't eat for two days straight I thought by the third day I would have been cleaned enough for me to be able to have the colonoscopy but they still wanted to push my colonoscopy out two months because it was the end of the year oh come on what the hell that that's yeah that's that's ridiculous and so what they they essentially were like until we can actually get you in for the endoscopy and or for the oscopy and the colonoscopy I think they wanted to do three different they wanted to do the pill the camera through the top and the bottom mhm and by the time my colonoscopy was set I it was I was already starting to feel as or I was feeling asymptomatic and they said all right we can get you in in March we can get you in for a colonoscopy in March and it's January I'm already starting to feel better I'm thinking all right fine schedule me for March fine I don't care we can do that mhm but if you saw in the documentary by the time March came around I was already back to my full 198 lbs I was in I would say the early stages of remission and so when they wanted me to come in for a colonoscopy I essentially said do I need one yeah do I need to come in there and get confirmation just for the sake of paying you guys and expense and being able to get the confirmation that I can feel myself yeah so I never went back for a followup to make sure that I was actually from a biopsy standpoint cleared of the inflammation in the Crohns yeah probably fair enough you know right um I you know after after three months I have I have had patients that uh similar sort of story if they they go strict red meat and water uh that's a typical sort of timeline I'd see sort of three four weeks people have serious um Improvement in their symptoms if not complete resolution of their symptoms and then you know a couple months later I've seen people get biopsies and colonoscopies and things like that or the colonoscopies are clear there's actually even no sign on biopsy as well so it seems to be uh well the good thing about Crohn's is that it's uh it does seem to respond pretty quickly if you're really strict on it which is good and you've got to be strict because I I was eating eggs for a while too because the eggs for me were going to be a staple but I ended up having a severe allergic reaction to the eggs whether it was the egg white whether it was the egg yolk whatever it was I was having a severe allergic reaction to eggs fundamentally and it wasn't until I said you know what fine just ground beef just salt just water we're going to do this until I can actually see if it end and of itself is effective enough to remedy my symptoms which it was after a week I was able to have enough alleviation from my cramping in particular I mean doc you're familiar Crohn's patients IBD patients but Crohn's and alcer of colitis in particular the level of cramping that the client feels the level of cramping that is endured through those experiences I mean the you know it's the strictures right the intestine the tube just starts getting real tight because of the strictures and when they have you trying to eat fiber going through the small constricted hole it's like yeah the opposite of what it's the opposite of what the body's designed to do yeah or want and yeah after about a week I felt the alleviation of those strictures though I started I could feel the fluidity I my barbar aryy wasn't as loud I could feel the fluidity of the movement of my intestinal tract my peristalsis effectively being able to move without severe cramping like strictures yeah correct and um yeah that's the thing too with with things like Cron's disease rheumato arthritis uh Ultra colitis these sorts of things the I guess the the plus side of having such a responsive sort of uh issue is that when you eat the wrong thing you know about it you know about it straight away and there's no messing around and it's not like this subtle like just sort of buildup over time it's just yeah you've got horrible pain and cramps you've got bloody diarrhea for the next three days straight it's just like yep never doing that again and so it's it's you know very you know people get very highly motivated you know to be really dialed in uh to this sort of way of eating and then they get all the other improvements that you get from being strict on this as well plus the added benefit of not having to deal with your your Crohn's or rheumat arthritis and things like that uh whereas when you get things are a bit bit more subtle like Hashimoto you know you can get your your your antibodies in the hundreds or even over a thousands and uh and you'll just feel a bit rotten and you know you'll maybe be on thyroid medication and but maybe it gets worse and worse and worse you're not on enough thyroid medication anymore you just don't even really know why you don't feel very good and you're tired you have lack of motivation and all these other sorts of things you don't you know tie it in to what you're eating because it's just so far removed it's not like this bam right in front of your face sort of uh reaction uh but when you check their anab bodies they're very elevated and okay well we need to be strict again and um uh so with something like Crohn's I actually find that people find it a lot easier to you know to stay strict because you know they they're they're seeing the the negative results so much quicker and so much more dramatically if they don't yeah staying strict to avoid the strictures yeah exactly so um you mentioned your your documentary but you know that's something that would' be great to talk about you you actually you actually documented your journey on this and and and showed you know how sick you were and then uh when you were coming through it you know your recovery can you can you tell us about the documentary and and walk us through that as well and what made you decide to do it in the first place yeah so I've been a a documentarian we'll say not in the sense of making documentaries but just document stuff all the time I'm a video editor I've been U I've worked in like media for a while since I was in like high school so as soon as I started realizing the severity of the situation I mean the doc the GI specialist came in to the hospital after a day when they were doing all the tests and they were trying to figure out what was wrong with me the CT scans came back negative they didn't think I had aend this all these things came back negative so the doc came in and flat out told me like I was about to die said this is a life-changing thing I'm about to tell you you have Crohn's disease and it's something you're going to have the rest of your life you'll probably need to be on medication the rest of your life so let's let's prepare for that lifestyle change right now so you can you can live the best life that you essentially have left wow and I'm over here like oh my go like it legit dropped my heart when I'm thinking like I'm assuming what people experience when they have something way worse like cancer right like I thought I was so far gone I had never heard of Crohn's disease so when he says you have insert disease I just I was I was so taken aback that I thought the only thing I can do is document this whole experience wherever it goes and it led to me documenting first the initial stages which was me losing all the weight being really sick and I didn't have motivation of what the end narrative would be of the story until I started coming across to everybody in the carnivore community and Doc I'm G tell you you in particular you and sha Baker and Dr Robert syy you you guys spearheaded my introduction into what the actual remedies could have been for me without the medication and it gave me such a positive life at the end of the tunnel that it inspired me to see well maybe this could at least be the testimony at the end of The Narrative let's see if what has been proposed to help overcome this disease let's see if it's actually let's see if it holds Merit and so I figured by documenting it we would truly be able to discover if that n equals one had married or not yeah and after four months lo and behold we got back to where we currently are so yeah nice and so so so walk us through that so what does the document cover documentary cover and and what are some of the things that were uh you know found in that and also uh would would probably be surprising to some people as you are familiar with there's the chance within the document well throughout the entire experience I decided that I was going to record as much as possible because I wanted everybody who had Crohn's or all sort of colitis or IBD fundamentally I wanted them to see that their Journey could at least be related relatable in the sense of what the doctors are telling you how hopeless and helpless you may feel as a result of what the doctors are telling you and I figured if that's the case I'm going to record and document all of my conversations with the GI specialist that I'm assigned to and as you saw in the documentary those GI Specialists were very revealing in their own limited knowledge we'll say so I recorded these these GI Specialists and I was asking them hey could diet could nutrition could lifestyle have any effect on my Crohn's in my recovery and I had two different GI Specialists who were from two different clinics who had the same exact Spiel when it came to the efficacy of food and lifestyle in remedying any inflammatory disease let alone inflammatory bowel disease and so what I was able to do is expose their ignorance for what it was which I essentially they didn't expect a personal trainer and a guy who was literate in nutrition and who could have a basic enough understanding to to read the methodology the stat the statistical significance and the actual um and the actual like uh the different significant measurements you would measure to qualify a study they didn't think somebody like me was going to be able to come in to question the Integrity of what their approach just was and you end up hearing one of the Specialists say the only way that you can get better is through medicine yeah lifestyle diet will not be able to they said we have Decades of research to even prove it they were using language like this to try to truly get me to buy into the you need medication the rest of your life yeah and so throughout the documentary I was justop posing the blatant ignorance of what these GI Specialists were saying in contrast to what the likes of geniuses like you Shan Baker Robert cyes and the likes CI means I had him in there the difference that you guys are able to express through your own clinical practices were able to be the direct contrast of what they were claiming they had in their clinical practice and throughout the documentary you see that you see what are the GI Specialists saying and what is Mitchell following on his own independent research and as a result you see by me following the independent route what it ended up becoming in the end because I documented like you said the entire experience from the time I lost the 50 pounds all the way to the point where I gained it all back awesome hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option so I like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off which also applies to subscriptions giv you 25% off total all right thanks guys yeah I I do remember that and those conversations with the GI Specialists you know I mean you know to to be fair to them you know this is just this is what we're taught and you know and and when you are taught ex that this is this is the best way to treat these things and you treat them in that way and you just see that that's those are the results that you get and that's you know it's inside the Box thinking you know that's always what they say don't think outside the box all these sorts of things well now we're we're really telling people to think Inside the Box don't look outside the box oh it's a scary place you know just nice here in this nice warm box you know just stay here and just do what you're told now with with with that though do you think that there is still a level of you didn't you didn't stick with what you were told sea Baker didn't stick with what he was told so what's the difference then in your willingness I well it's almost rhetorical I would say the difference is you actually adhering to the hypocritic oath actually thinking about doing no harm right well yeah I mean I'm sure they are too it's just that they're this is what they they've seen you know the thing is is that is that before I knew about this I I didn't know what I didn't know and uh you know so I wouldn't have known about this you know I I came across this uh in a very secutus way where uh I just wasn't going to eat plants cuz I I knew how toxic they were and I just wasn't going to do that and then all of a sudden it was sort of clicked was like well hold on second this is what we've been doing for millions of years is this is this is there actually something to this and they well we're actually carnivores and then you start seeing Sean Baker and he's only eating meat and he's he's helping patients and they're getting better I'm like oh hold on a second this is there's something to this and you start looking into the details of the studies saying hey is there is there more to this what what do we know what can we prove and are there studies using you know meat-based approach approaches um actually there are thousands of them in fact um they're all in this order of ketogenic diet um sort of model where you're cutting out carbohydrates and replacing with fat and protein typically from meat and so you're getting these high fat meat-based ketogenic diets which a carnivore diet is and and you're seeing these massive improvements and so it's like hold on a second and so you know I was just in a position that I was able to spend eight hours a day reading papers for for months because I was taking time off um in the middle of residency never would have happened you know but right that's fair you know but so so would you say they're just too busy then to continue their education to a sufficient enough degree to almost reverse some of the preconceived notions they have through their field of study big the biggest thing is they is they don't not only do they not know what they don't know that's um they there there's things that they they you know it's what Mark Twain said is it's not what you don't know that gets you it's what you know for certain that just ain't so and so they have been taught that this is the best way to treat disease X and so well why why would I be told that in medical school and in residency I'm now a specialist I'm board certified obviously this is this is the best body of knowledge for this specialty the problem is that those that curriculum is set by individuals those individuals may not know what they don't know about and um but also that curriculum is also heavily influenced by the Food and Drug companies heavily in influenced and so it's this model of here's a problem here's a pill and and I swear to God I've seen like some of the like the this is sort of a problem that I have with some of the six-year programs that um teach medicine they don't give you a fundamental science degree you're not taking all the biology and in organic chemistry organic chemistry biochemistry genetics look what I'm look what I'm doing notes on yeah there you go you don't learn that until year five in medical or in Biochemistry yeah so you know and and you know when you're learning these things in medical school it's very superficial you're just being told about these different Pathways and things like that but you don't know where they plug into right you just just learn about these things on their own so you don't know the you don't know the terrain and um you know and so when when you know to be let's be fair you know Medical School is is a is a trade school you're learning a trade you know it's you know the professional schools you're just learning about a profession or a trade right um if you take an undergraduate degree then you have a science background and you have that superimposed trade school on top of that if you're going just out of high school it's really just a trade school and you don't have the Science Background some try to incorporate that into it some do better than others but I have full on scene because I think they have to sort of dumb it down for 18-year-olds that are sort of coming into this you know that that haven't really you know done high level stuff um I swear to God it was like third grade sort of assignment where they had a list of different problems and they had the medication on the other side and you drew a line and I saw these kids homework in in the librar in the sixe program and he was like actually just drawing lines on this I'm like are these kids like in third grade like what the hell are they doing here this is this is this is some weird stuff and uh but that's it here's the problem line it up with the appropriate pill and that and that's how we're taught because that's how the curriculum is set and they don't realize that there are thousands of studies and randomized control trials in humans with thousands of patients showing a very different side to this the problem is is that there's no money in a ketogenic diet right so it's not there's no big keto I mean the keto is an absence of carbohydrates right right so you're not going to have a big industry that that deals in the absence of something right and so you don't have a product to sell now they're having keto snacks and all that sort of stuff but that's garbage too you know a lot of those things have a bunch of you know artificial ingredients a bunch of you know weird you know things that you don't want either um some are better than others but either way you know you can get very bad stuff as well and so you know the money is in Pharmaceuticals the drug companies and the food companies and they're and they're the ones funding these sorts of things you know when you have you know the American Diabetes associations their biggest funders or like cocacola and Nestle and these sorts of companies like or the companies that you know that that make insulin and um you know all these other medications for diabetes Well that's that's what you're going to be doing you know that's what you're going to be pushing you're not going to say carbohydrate restriction because your main sponsors sell sugars and carbohydrates and right if you carbohydrate restrict well then you're going to need less insulin hold on a second these guys who pay us they make insulin and they don't want us to say that so they don't so it doesn't get in the curriculum and it doesn't get taught in residencies and it certainly doesn't get taught in medical schools and then the conferences are sponsored by these companies as well and they absolutely have a say over who gets to talk and what they get to talk about which is why you have to go to to these other independent um uh medical uh conferences that uh you know typically are um you know the are are better science and um and and doesn't have the strings attached to uh the studies that that are involved but the studies exist I mean I've spoken to people I don't know if I I mentioned this to you um when we were talking on online but uh when I was on a um general surgery rotation um I was years ago I was sent to go uh talk to a uh you know do a consultation with a lady who had Crohn's and she was being treated by the you know the GI Specialists and they were on all these different drugs and meds and everything like that and nothing was really working and she was getting worse and worse and worse and and you know they wanted her worked up for surgery to get reect you know part of her bowel and so I was talking to her and she just made it very clear she's just like I really don't want surgery you know is there anything I can do I was like so you know I know about all these studies that um that have been done in humans randomized control trials in humans showing that diet nutrition plays a huge role and like why wouldn't it you're talking about your digestive tract you know I mean that's like that's like saying that you know like um you know that that like something you inject in your heart isn't going to affect your heart has nothing to do with it you know like what it it it's literally organ that's affected you know and so it's um you know it's very funny that they they even think that but um but yeah so she was just like is there anything I can do and just like you know I know about these studies you know and she ask me directly you know it would be unethical for me to withhold that information it would literally be malpractice right right um because I'm I'm withholding information that could help her um you know carry out her wishes which is which is avoid surgery and so you know I told her about it and just like well actually there's these studies that you know people have been you know you know uh you know know this Elemental diet randomized control trial and humans showing that if you put people on this Elemental diet which is just your Macros and micros in a shake form it's ketogenic because it was designed for epileptic kids that that's been shown to be a better treatment to get people out of an acute flare up of Crohn's than prazone steroids right and so just not eating certain things was a better treatment than steroids the gold standard to get this suppressed and um and settled down another one that just got rid of carbohydrates and fiber in Crohn's patients again and said how long can we keep them in remission without medication it was up to 51 months you know which is over four years and that's just just carbs and and fiber okay well when you take away carbs and fiber okay you need fat and protein and and where's that going to come from that doesn't have fiber right it's largely just going to be meat isn't it and so you know unless you have processed weird stuff but um the point is is that they stayed in remission without medications up to 51 months and then the control group stayed in remission on average zero months which is less months right and so you know when you know that and you know there studies showing that and there there's actually way more studies in as well that actually you know compound this uh this argument um you you you have to tell them so I told her that and I just said look you can look into this here are the studies here are some things to look up and she was really excited she's like yeah I'm going to look into that I'm going to check that out and U and it said and just like look you know you haven't ruptured anything this isn't an acute emergency you know you don't have a fistula you like leaking you know bowel contents into your abdomen or something like that this is just it's not an acute emergency it's just the GI guys are like yeah this is going in that direction you know and so um and so it's just like look if it doesn't work you don't want to do it surgery is always available you know that's that's always going to be there there's a problem we're always here you know you make your own decision she said yeah sounds good um so actually giving the patient informed consent and and inform patient on what the available options are uh that apparently just just pissed these people off so there's one of these little guys on the GI team there was like eavesdropping like outside of the room and uh didn't didn't come to me and ask me about this going like oh what was that about just went and and went to his boss and was just like you won't believe what this the surgeon was saying to this lady um and they didn't even come to me they didn't talk to me going like hey what are you talking about you know we haven't heard any of this like what are you talking about they went to my head of the department and said you know we're really upset about this what the hell is this about and we're going to we're going to report him to the medical board like whoa easy like what the hell's wrong with you like you know and um and so they're like why don't we just talk to him and find out what he was talking about so then talked to me and I was just like well look there's they're all the you know they're like well you know and they said well there's no studies in this there's no studies that actually show that this work and I was like yeah there are there's actually quite a lot they're like what do you mean I was just like yeah there's like there's like half a dozen I can email them I can send them to you right now I have them on my phone and I sent it to them and they're like they had no idea they no idea because it doesn't get taught in residency and if you don't know to look for it or you don't have an idea of something to look for you're not going to go look for it but I had an idea and so I said are there any studies on this sure enough there are actually quite a lot um but they don't get publicized they don't get you know drug reps coming in to say hey here's the new research on ketogenic diet and you don't need our medications anymore I'm going to go find a new job thanks you know it's they they don't do that right they come and they display the the you know the studies that back up their product you know and and doctors don't get that all the time they think that that's like the research wing of the hospital or something like that as opposed to a sales rep and I I I swear I I I've seen um doctors in my department uh like when I was an intern uh that that would be there and they had these you know catered lunch it was like on Tuesdays you know we'd have like uh you know the drug rep would come in and you know buy you know have a have like a you know bunch of little buffet lunch sort of thing and give us their spiel about whatever drug they were Hawking and um what kind of food would they bring in how much food no what kind of food would they bring in oh sometimes it was decent you know had like okay fair enough you know it was it wasn't it wasn't anything good good but you know that's the point though right like deep fried shrimp and things like that that was probably the best one you know maybe be like a bit of like a you know some Sherie or something like that but then it have you know just just garbage really but uh right you know at the time when I didn't know any better you know and you're just like desperate for food because you just don't have time to breathe you know during your intern year and um you're just working crazy hours and things like that you're just like food Yes dear God you know give me that and I think that goes back to the idea though of why those doctors don't do don't have the time to go through their continued education on their own Merit outside of that boxed curriculum to then discover those sort of things that you inevitably discovered Yeah well yeah and and and they and they you know we're so used to being spoonfed we're so used to having a curriculum we're studying for you know our our school exams we're studying for the usml we're studying for boards we're studying and studying and studying we're just being spoonfed this is the stuff that you need to know okay well I don't care about anything else because this because I need to pass that test and um and so you just get you get you know very um you know very narrow narrow Focus very monocular in your medical perspective that's it yeah yeah tonal vision and so yep uh and then after that you you you that's just how you've been trained and so you don't know to look outside and until someone opens that up for you you don't you don't go looking on your own and so you know I had that sort of aha moment when I like holy crap like there's there's just a mountain of research out here that no one's even talking about no one's looking about okay you know let's get into it um and it's like a whole new world but you know the doctors like this one one lady she was um she was there she was just so excited every Tuesday when the drug rep would come oh I'm just so excited like oh why because there's lunch that's why I'm excited like no we're got to learn about studies we're going to learn about science oh I'm just so excited and it's just like they're not the research Department you know this is a sales rep they're going to tell you the studies that they want to tell you that push their product in a way that makes their product look the best possible like this is this is not real research and imagine if that doctor's if that doctor's eagerness could be properly channeled in a way where she's now being able to indulge in the right type of research cuz I feel bad for that I mean imagine the eagerness that lady had she was really excited to learn all this stuff just imagine if she was able to learn it in an uncorrupted domain in a in a field where she could actually take that eagerness and do something good with it yeah absolutely you know it's uh it's one thing that you know we can take on ourselves when we see this you know we give lectures you know to each other within our own department and you know do you know Journal clubs and Grand rounds and so you know when I'm doing grand rounds and and uh and presentations and things like that like I do it on this stuff you know ketogenic metabolic therapy for the treatment of gbms and things like that that's something that you know my Neurosurgical Department had not come across before and they and they were actually quite you know taken back by that they're like you know and some of even said like yeah at first I thought this topic was going to be a bit weird I didn't know where it was going to go but yeah this this this might might there might be something there I think we should do uh you know studies on this I think we should you know um actually you know try to try to carry this forward so um you know the interest is there I think you know it's just people don't don't even know to go look for it you know and uh yeah and I remember the guy uh that you were talking about that said just like oh yeah no we have all this proof we've proven this over years I'm like no you haven't buddy no you really they you oh we've proven that that diet doesn't do anything I'm like uh no you might might want to check on that one again a GI specialist saying that a GI specialist saying that the the things going into your intestines don't affect your intestines I know yeah that one that one that one hurt but um yeah I think sometimes you just when you're trying to get when you're trying to get somethingone across to a patient sometime I you know sometimes you just you know you you you try to word things in a way that's convinc that's going to be convincing to them but you have to you can't do that in a way that includes something that's you know that's not strictly true like if if you if you haven't if there haven't been studies that you've read saying like oh they tried all these different diets and there's no improvement if you if you have not read that study then you cannot say make that statement you know even if you believe that it does that diet doesn't affect you because you were taught that DED doesn't do anything oh yeah no no it's just medication that's it um no you need you need to actually know that there haven't been studies to do that and there are studies that do that you know and so may maybe maybe you know play Devil's Advocate maybe there's some study looking at at certain diets and oh yeah we had these Chang these parameters we didn't see too much difference okay but that's not every diet so you can't necessarily say that but that's not food fundamentally right because that's what they were saying they were saying food doesn't affect your immune system essentially and it's like what yeah exactly or your gut right yeah now what you eat doesn't doesn't actually affect your body no no it's completely by the way both both of those GI Specialists were clinically overweight but one of them was probably veering on the numbers of being obese so yeah did you did you see them subsequently with your recovery no no I I was I was almost willing to uh go either go back and actually schedule a consultation or just send them the documentary but I got too busy with things well you know it it might be worthwhile you know it's it's obviously not going to help you but it might help other people you know if you can get them to open their eyes because a lot of times um a lot of doctors I know a lot of doctors I know um who have come to this realization it's from a patient it's from a patient who's actually come in and actually you know basically showed them up and um not necessarily done it in a way that was mean or aggressive but just saying hey you missed this you know I asked you a food would help me you said definitely not the only thing I did was change my diet I'm off all medications I'm completely recovered you know this is something that thousands of people around the world are doing this is your this is your specialty you know it it you know it is imperative that you look into this you know you you you have a duty to your patients your future patients to at least look into this because you can say you know well that's just that's just lucky you got lucky that's just one person but there's are tens of thousands of people around the world improving this and there are doctors around the world um doing studies showing that these that that dietary interventions like the elemental diet and like the carbon fiber restriction makes a massive Improvement in in Crohn's disease in particular this is something that that you it behooves you to check out for your patients and you know if you didn't know about it before that's fair enough now you do and so now if you don't do anything about it that's on you and um and so you know that that you know could you know you could be harming patients from here on out there's actually a um case series that just got published with 10 uh Crohn's disease patients you know and and with clinically objective markers and studies and all these sorts of things showing that this just went away in all 10 of these uh patients so you know it's um you know something that uh I'm sure will probably you know do uh more clinical trials on like specifically a carnivore diet and try to do like an RCT or something like that be super easy I mean only have to do it for a couple months and uh it wouldn't take that long you know but uh but that would you know that would really really um rock the boat but I think there's more than enough evidence to show to to support attempting it it's not going to hurt them first Do no harm well eating meat doesn't cause harm right oh you have to eat fiber you have to eat fiber do you what happens when we we have appendicitis or we have a bowel reection or we have diverticulitis you say eat a low residue diet what does that mean no fiber things absorb and you don't excrete okay so that means no fiber because you know just eating meat you liquefy and absorb 98 plus percent of the meat that you eat and so you know why are we saying now for Crohn's that you know with strictures that you want more bulk that's fiber heals everything no it damn well doesn't it makes things worse and um you know and so you know that's that's the thing you know it doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is and it doesn't matter how smart you are if it doesn't agree with experiment it's wrong so they told you to do X you did Y and you got a completely different result than they predicted so their theory is not able to predict outcomes very favorably so that means it's a bad Theory our theory has been working pretty damn well so far you know people been taking this on themselves and they've been just saying okay well this guy's telling me one thing you know Anthony's saying something else give it a I've tried this guy's thing that sucked all right let's try this one look at that it's better so lo and behold you and it and it and it works so you know but you know like David Unwin Dr David Unwin he's a GP over in in the UK so he's like a you know Family Practice physician um that that was his his sort of moment as a patient came into him she hadn't been in there for a year and he sort of saw that she was offer diabetes medications and and Metformin and things like that for like nine months so she he you know called her in to you know make an appointment so he could basically give her a talking to about not taking your medication what a naughty patient you not taking your medication and she let him have it you know she said you know why the hell didn't you tell me that eating carbohydrates and sugar and things like that is going to spike my blood sugar you know I have diabetes and diabet I'm trying to control my blood sugar and you never said once that cutting out car carbs would control my blood sugar better than medication that eating carbohydrates would would slam up my blood sugar you know it's like I don't even think you're qualified uh to practice medicine you know if you don't even know that you know and um and he was just like oh hold on a second and so he started looking into it and he started like he said and she said I haven't taken my Med my diabetes medications in the last last nine months because I haven't needed to because my blood sugar is perfect I don't have diabetes anymore as long as I eat like this and and why don't you know about that and uh and that and he was the you know the type of person that you know that is going to look Inward and not try to just defensive yeah exactly oh Jesus have I been completely wrong this whole time he started looking into it like I had no idea but there's tons of studies showing this why wasn't I taught this why wasn't you know because it doesn't pay you know it doesn't pay the bills and they don't pay reps to do it and things like that so you know who knows you could be that your experience with those doctors relating those to those doctors could be that Catalyst you need or they might completely blow you off and ignore it but you know what it's out of your hands at that point you tried and that's a good perspective I never looked at it as the being able to potentially change the being able to change their mind for me was already far gone when I rewatched the documentary back as I'm editing it hearing their ignorance repetitively yeah well but I didn't think about the the wisdom that you're kind of ascribing which is yeah but think Beyond just the limitations of of how you think they're going to be close-minded and try to imagine a world where if they were open-minded how that could then actually affect other people yeah and and even their own department and if you know they see this and they start looking and finding these studies like oh Jesus hold on a second well maybe we should do more studies and bigger studies maybe we should do study in this department you know maybe and then start talking to their colleagues about it as well and um and you know if and if their colleagues are like you're crazy but then you start doing for your patients you start getting good results better results and they're coming off medications you know you know you once once you see these results you can't unsee them and you know so that's why you know I and others are are so passionate about this is is because it works and you apply these these principles to people and their their lives get better and you're actually doing your job as a doctor which is making them better not just papering over their symptoms with pills that are actually going to make them sicker in the long run and um and that's that's it's very satisfying work as opposed to just this defeated sort of profession that we're in now that no matter what you do people are just getting worse and worse and worse your bodies are just decaying and decaying and finally dying and um and we're just desperately trying to tape them together and use Bondo and duct tape to sort of strap them along and it's just all falling apart and and most people burn out you know there's a huge burnout rate among doctors is's a huge substance abuse problem and suicide rate in in U doctors one of the highest for all of those in of of the professions and um I think that's probably why because it's just you spend your entire life you work extremely hard study for a very long time and doing these grueling exams and all these sorts of things and then you're there and your brigh eyed and bushy tail I'm going to help people and you just you're seeing your patients just get slowly worse and slowly worse and slowly worse and they just they just all die and they all get worse and then you start having health problems and you're overweight and your blood pressure is up and you're pre-diabetic now now you're diabetic and you're doing all the things right you're following all your own advice and you're just still getting worse and worse and worse and it's just it's depressing and um you just just hearing that depressing me and uh you know and then when they sort of see the light and they like well actually there's there is a different way there's a better way um and it actually works then you just you you just have to bang that drum because um you know the alternative is pretty bleak so do you think we're just early in this transition phase in this Paradigm shifting from let's say the medical industrial complex the the the special interests involved that have had a vice grip on our nutritional literacy do you think we're just so early in this transition is that why there's still so much uncertainty uh yeah we're either early on in that transition um well we are early on in that transition and but we can only call it a transition if it actually changes fair enough fa enough so you know as long as we don't get completely shut down you know by the multi-trillion dollar powers that be uh uh then yes this is this is an early stage of that and that's you know and and that's normal you know because it takes a while for these this information to get out but the truth will out and um you know lies get around much quicker usually because people pay to to circulate them you know the more that these meat-based diet carnivore diets ketogenic diets uh improve people's lives and get more information on this and more people trying it and speaking about it and going Hallelujah this is so much better um the more you see these really weak garbage epidemiological studies coming out places like Harvard and Stanford from these you know vegan propagandist such as Dr Gardner and Willet um who say that oh well eating red meat oh that that's you know that's has this association with cancer or something like that and um and you look at it and it's just complete garbage um but then the the you know the media outlets and things like that whose major sponsors are the Food and Drug companies and one of the reasons that they pay the most money is because you have have to back them up in other stories um not just run their ads but they own you and so when people are coming they so you're not going to be able to run ads or run um news stories and things like that that be smch those Industries or challenge those Industries and when there is a challenge you're basically you know you're beholden to them to go out and make make these garbage sort of paper you know reports about oh red me can cause diabetes and this and the other well except that we have we have clinical trials in humans showing that putting them on a high-fat meat-based heavily meat-based ketogenic diet reverses diabetes so why is it now causing diabetes in this epidemiological study that you know you that you did from a survey to a bunch of people and asked them what they ate in the last two years it's like how would you ever know so an actual experimental design study is obviously out you know uh trumps that sort of garbage but you know I saw the Wall Street Journal come out with this the other day and they're just talking about all this epidemiological uh studies that show X Y and Z it's like I'm sorry but there are experimental there's experimental data that shows the exact opposite and so that is just ridiculous that they're even putting that out but they're being paid to they're not necessarily being paid to write that article they may be but because the media companies incorpor ations their largest um uh you know um you know advertisers are the Food and Drug companies they can't you know I mean mean people have spoken about this like CEOs different news this St call mean talks about right c mean was c mean his biggest thing I mean they just went to the US Senate and they had a whole confrontation on trying to shift a lot of the uh standards that we have in our ingredients and what did the Atlantic write about it oh yeah exactly it was it was woo woo me a meeting of woo woo science that's it that's it um I I forget who it was but they were saying that um uh oh no that was it um so I was actually interviewing Gary TBS yesterday so he's uh you know he's uh you know a science journalist and writer he's an actual investigative journalist he actually does actual journalism instead of this you know propaganda stuff and um and so he was telling me that he he spoke to was it Roger ALS that uh founded box news and box news is the only one sort of talking about the Senate here you didn't see that on CNN or MSNBC or or NBC or ABC or any of the major networks so it at least someone did you know people have various opinions on Fox news but uh that's not really the point the point is that almost no one uh aired this you know you could only watch it on One Source but uh he was talking to uh Roger alss or telling a story about this where he said that you know he he knew that there was all these problems with you know health and this that and the other but he he was saying that even he's like we could never run an a story like this that would go against the drug companies because they they're they just are major advertisers and if we if we ran a story like that they'd pull they'd pull their ad dollars and it would just you know sort of tank the the uh the network um you know now they they might have other sorts of you know Revenue sources and things like that it may not be as as impactful but uh that you know that's a major that's a major issue that people uh have to contend with in the media they you know they they bought their silence basically they bought their support because you know if you if you piss them off and they pull that ad Revenue you just take a huge dive and um you know it could it could sync could sync your organization and if you don't mind me asking so what why do you think then the let's say the nonclinical practicing doctors the the social media doctors that have PhD or MD next to their name yet aren't practicing and seem as though or behave as though they're being paid by these special interests if they're not being paid what is the incentive for a lot of these people is it just the immediacy like if we're talking about like aane Norton is there the immediacy of them just trying to get this information out and espouse their expertise in a in a domain without actually doing the research and just espousing ignorance or is there special interests in line that keep that sort of narrative going what is the incentive for certain people to espouse a lot of these wrong wrongly noted studies we'll say hey everyone really happy to announce a new sponsor for the show and for everybody down in Australia Stockman Stakes who are delivering highquality grass-fed and finished pasture raised beef and other meats flash frozen and vacuum sealed tood door something that I've been enjoying a lot of myself recently as well they also have a great range of specialty items such as high fat keto mints and carnivore beef and organs mints with liver kidneys and beef heart as well so use code chaffy today for free order of beef mints or another specialty gift along with your order at Stockman stakes. comom and I'll see you over there thanks guys well they could very well be paid to do it not necessarily all of them are some of them will be you I mean they do go out and pay social media influencers especially ones with big um accounts and you know when when asame got put on the the carcinogen list for The Who there's a huge out out outcry from all these influencers and things like that at the same time going like oh no no this is ridiculous and and um uh a lot of them got um you know got were shown to have been paid to say that and some of them didn't disclose it properly and so they tried to sort of sneak it under the radar that they're actually being paid to do this they didn't say who they were being paid by the American Beverage Association the ABA so like oh yeah ABA no one knows what the hell that is uh you look it up and it's uh okay American Beverage Association okay what does that mean well it's a lobbying group for uh you know the the co colas and Pepsis of the world that are that are pushing their their sodas and all that sort of stuff and um and so you don't know that and so you know some of the people got um warnings from the FTC you know threaten that they could be fined $50,000 that's up on the FTC website that's public information um so they had you know written public warnings about these sorts of things and um so that does happen and um you know some of these people you know they just want to be relevant you know they just want they they're clout Chasers and um and uh you know it a lot of them because they're not working you like I have a job I just you I just worked you know 12 hours and um you know so I I don't I don't I don't derive you know the bulk of my income from my online work you know that that's just this is purely a labor of love because it's something because it works and it helps people and that's what I care about and so I I spend extra time in the middle of the night doing these things because it helps people and yeah I get some ad Revenue now because my channel is big enough but I I did not for a long time and so um you know this was just this was this was purely for that and I I worked I got you know I make way more money in my job than I do from this stuff and I I like it that way you know I'm not trying to make this online stuff my job these other guys are and girls you know they don't they don't they're not practicing do s you know they don't have um a a real job and I think that's probably a major thing they don't have a real job so they just they think that Instagram and uh you know social media is is the real world it's not the real real world it's ridiculous um and so you know how do they get paid you know people pay them to make certain you know Tik Tok videos and this is and that and um you know they'll get ad revenue and so on but uh you know a lot of it they're being paid to do this sort of stuff because when you get when you build up a channel that's big you get paid a lot I mean you can look this up you if you look up if you just Google you know what what would you get paid for you know if you had an Instagram channel of 100,000 people on it or something like that or Tik Tok of this that and the other you'll find websites that tell you like well this is the sort of the average earning for this size of a channel right and so if you're going to do a real or you're going to do a post or you're going to do this you should be charging within this rage it is insane how much you can charge like so so for my size of an account you know on on Instagram or or YouTube or whatever um it's u i I looked this up and it's just like you know it'sing from like a th to $5,000 a post uh just for a post you know it's it's like a real it could be more and things like that so you know when somebody does like a multi- you know minute reel you know talking about the benefits of this product and you're being paid by the American Beverage Association I can only assume they're making thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars and if they have a you know two million people on Tik Tok and half a million people on Instagram like you know uh some people have you know me you're making tens of thousands of dollars potentially and uh doing that sort of thing and you know so you know if they're not working as a doctor how else are they making their money you know and that was my biggest concern my biggest concern is the do that are out here actually boots on the ground affecting clients oneon-one and seeing the effects of the words that they say on other people's daily lives the difference of that versus hiding behind the screen and not having to see the implications of your words yeah that's a big one is that if you if you don't actually have to deal with the the repercussions of your advice then you know should you re really be giving the advice probably not you know if you if you're not seeing patients saying oh yeah this is good this is what you want to do and all that sort oh that's dangerous you don't want to do that well if you're not actually treating patients how the hell do you know you don't know it's all theoretical you know oh but I have a study [ __ ] your study I don't give a [ __ ] you know because I actually see real people in real life and their health gets better and their lives improve and they come off medications and their blood work and their exams and their and their um Imaging improves so I I really couldn't care less what um what any given study says because you can get a study that says anything doesn't matter methodology statistical significance all of that you can manipulate you can manipulate all these sorts of things and at the end of the day if your study says that you know eating meat is going to cause cancer and diabetes and yet you're reversing diabetes and it's going to cause high blood pressure and all these sorts of things and yet the and and autoimmunity is going to get worse they're trying to say this now too that meat causes autoimmunity well I'm that's funny because you know when people go on a and when they only eat meat and nothing else a lot of times their autoimmunity goes away exactly case and point so um that's the only thing that matters and so you know you have the um uh you know the the the vegan doctors of the world saying that if you eat meat you will worsen your autoimmunity and so you could believe that you could believe that information they have you know studies or some sort of epidemiology to to back up their what they're saying possibly I you know it's not going to be very good evidence but you know they have something something that they can hang their hat on to lie to you about um but it doesn't matter because you did it and it did the opposite so it doesn't matter what their study says it just does not matter because it doesn't apply to you you know even if it even if it applies to everybody else on Earth it didn't apply to you so study does not matter to you and when you're seeing as a doctor more and more of your patients completely reverse here to for thought to be irreversible diseases you you know You' be committing malpractice if you did not at least tell your patients about that who were suffering from those same issues if I have if I I've seen so many cases of diabetes reversed that if I have when I have a patient that comes in with diabetes it would be malpractice and unethical at that point for me not to tell them about these dietary interventions they would never even have to take medications in the first place or they could come off their medications eventually for most people you know that that's unethical it's immoral it's it's malpractice and um you know so they're not doing these sorts of things they're just talking a lot of trash hiding behind a screen most of them are just pissant little you know weaklings you know and um and uh you know so and so they have to stay behind their their screen you know even Lane Norton when I came up to him uh at at a Denver conference I I tried to be nice to him and I tried to like you know Pat him on the shoulder try to shake his hand be like hey man how's it going whatever he was just like dude couldn't speak he was just like you know I was just like yeah you've been talking a lot of [ __ ] it's a little different when you're standing in front of me isn't it you know and uh you know I I have no problem you know being nice to people and bearing the hatchet and things like that I mean he's one of these guys that's going around saying that I'm a fake doctor too so that's going to he's going to you know he so he's heard from my lawyer as well that he does that again his ass is getting sued you know but you know these sorts of things it's very different when you're you're in front of people and you're talking to them face to face people are actually a lot more cordial because you know there's real chances of something happening when you're when you're sitting next to each other you know or at least there's that you you're you're there in reality you know back in the day you know problems were you know it so much cordial people were much more more you know professional this that and the other because if you started speaking out of line someone's going to pop you you know they're going to knock you in the teeth and uh and everyone's going to be like yeah well you know deserve it don't act like that you know now you got all these little you know you know beta crybaby losers that like they just talk all this [ __ ] do all this sort of stuff and when someone kicks their ass oh you're not allowed to do that like well maybe we should though you know so throw them on the Rugby field you know well that's it like um yeah you or you know do what they used to do you know throw on some boxing gloves go on the ring you go at it that's what I and see that's the thing when you're talking about being a boots on the ground clinician clearly I'm not a doctor but as a personal trainer especially coming from a more educated at this point perspective on How to Train people like the last four years five years really being engrossed in a different approach of training has been one of fixing their biomechanics their posture right making sure their fascia is is properly hydrated so they can circulate blood nutrients they can hydrate more properly so for me when I'm training people it feels like malpractice if I don't immediately address the Baseline things that they need to fix whereas they come in and they're thinking I want to gain I want to gain muscle I want to lose fat get me sweaty get me healthy and I go slow down there's an approach to this that requires a level of due diligence if we're going to actually get those results that you're that you're looking to achieve and so if I'm sitting there just trying to get a paycheck saying I can easily make anybody sweat for an hour let me just make them sweat for an hour get done whatever don't worry about their results don't care if in a month they come back and they haven't made any improvements and so I feel like I'm almost engaging in malpractice if I wasn't at least contributing to a certain level of Baseline changes in their foundation and those always come from a understanding first and foremost of what needs to be changed and I didn't understand as a trainer four or five years ago the implication of posture fascia connective tissue I just didn't understand all that I thought it was all isolation just hypertrophy bodybuilding muscle stuff and the more I got engrossed in the science and did my own independent due diligence outside of the curriculum that was given to me as a personal trainer again not trying to compare medical school to being a trainer but the idea though of just being boxed in and then having a prescribed set of protocols you can give any person that's coming to see you for a specific outcome it takes more than just being in that box and it wasn't until I found myself outside of that box that I was really being able to do the thing I had set out to do in the first place which was actually help people and if you're not even in a clinical setting and you have PhD by your name or MD next to your name it's like what are you actually doing when you're trying to help people online if you haven't in your own right helped people directly boots on ground yeah that's it you know mean you can give this this advice but you're you're not following it up you you're not seeing these patients day after day you're not following them up you're not doing their blood work you're not talking to them and and you know and going through their issues and um and and seeing what's going on you know you're you know you're just you're just saying whatever you're saying and you're yelling at anybody who disagrees with you and you know you're you know uh Mob liking all the people that you know uh you know toot your horn so it's um a lot of confirmation bias it's a lot of you know different you know confir you know different uh little bubbles that they're in uh you know they they say that carnivore people are in a bubble and you know I'm sure you know to a degree that's true but you can't be in a bubble in a clinical practice exactly because you put people on a carnivore diet or a ketogenic diet or whatever you do some sort of intervention um you're going to have to deal with the negative cases as well if there are any and so you know you can't just hide behind confirmation bias where just everything you're seeing online is positive positive positive because that may not be the case you know and so if you're interventions really aren't working very well and the majority of people are getting worse not better you will see that in a clinical practice and if you keep doing it well then that's malpractice isn't it right um but at least in my practice that doesn't happen it's the exact opposite and you know and I I I talk to people I tell them exactly how what their bloods are or looking around why they're wrong why they're um you know off like that I can tell them I can I can point at the things that they're eating and show them on their blood work you know what this is doing to them uh you know in in certain respects and uh and and you talk about it and you just say okay if you change the way you're eating this is what's going to happen this is what you're going to feel this is what you're going to experience and this is what is going to happen to your your weight your lean body mass and your blood blood results and then it does you know and so you know it's and everybody's sort of different and and they all have their own indes things happen at different times but they all sort of improve you know if they if they weren't they were just getting worse they wouldn't keep coming back you know and like my my Paradigm and my medical practice is not like you know these other things where like why we just need return customers we need to seam as many times and milk as many office visits you know things no I don't want that you know I I you know the whole point like if you go to a doctor you have a chest infection and you're just like all right you're gonna have need to come back to me three days a week for basically the rest of your life or this is just it's never going to get better um you get a new doctor right you know so um my whole model in my medical practice is I'm going to give you the the the skills that you need the tools you need to not need to come back and that's the doc I'm telling you this right now self-sustained training is the company that I made for my personal training and I named it that because I want to train my clients to never need another personal trainer ever again nice you teach them to get educated enough in their own right to be their own sustainable healthy coach to where they then don't have to Outsource that any longer yeah that's not a good business model as a personal trainer though because for me well well well this is where I'm glad you even hesitated because for me where where is the good business model the product in it of itself is so quality that my client I I almost hesitated calling them patients because I'm dealing with a doctor my clients they all have been with me for the majority of my clients 80% of them have been with me for over four years not because they need to but because they actually appreciate the product that they're getting in regards to seeing the results from that service they're seeking out and I have clients where I'm again not a doctor but I'm looking at their blood work I'm looking I'm measuring as much as I can from a non-clinical side markers that can actually be gauged for improvement or the opposite which I've had zero clients at this point that haven't had some improvement in their markers when I utilize keto as a metabolic therapeutic almost all of my clients that come in I tell them look I whether you're an ethical vegan whether you're somebody who is just blantantly ignorant and doesn't know what food you're eating whether you're just on a standard American diet as a result of conveniency whatever it is I'm going to explain to you how we need to reset your metabolism open up your lipolytic Pathways and we can get into the Nuance of the nerdiness of it so we can hyperactivate the the ability to burn fat in the first place while turning down your body's over production of insulin and its dependency on carbs but before I can say that I I have to explain to them right the entire biochemical model of how we get ATP and when I'm getting into the nuances of really trying to describe to them what's happening biochemically you can see it on their face there's this look of like I didn't know I was coming to school today I didn't realize I was going to be learning science but every single client has understood the necessity and The Importance of Being educated on those sort of fronts enough so they can eventually become self- sustained so they don't ever need another personal trainer ever again which is great and the thing is too is that uh I you know I I try to affect that as well people do keep coming back to me um but I don't need to see them all the time it's like you know once a year twice a year it's like a Well Baby check and they come in like hey I'm doing great this is awesome you know check my Bloods again awesome you know they're just it's just they're happy about it um but I get I get a lot of new patients you know I get a lot of people that keep coming in keep coming in because they keep hearing from other people that like hey actually this this this actually works you know actually losing weight I'm coming off medication not going on more and uh and getting getting better and healthier and all these other sorts of things and they're finding things that other doctors aren't even looking for you know and uh and it's really helped and so I get I get a lot of people and so you know I mean even just today you know I I saw someone for the first time and she's like yeah I need to get I I need to make an appointment for my mom and actually my sister too I'm going to make appointments for them they need to come hear this stuff um you know so it's it's actually difficult I've got I got a very long waiting list uh for new patients to come in because it's it's you know it works and so you know I get people you know see them on the front end see them several times get things going get things on plan some people need a bit more uh handholding and that's fine and other people are a bit more self-sufficient uh and that's fine too and then but you know we get there in the end and then I see them every few months and then once every six months and then once a year and you know then just get Christmas cards saying doing great you know so uh and I like that I want that you know like I I don't you that's the thing the thing is it's a great it's a great business model because if you actually have demonstrated results that work and allow people to you know get get Real Results they they're excited about it and they talk about it and you get more new people coming in all the time you know if we're the only ones doing this like there's plenty of sick people out there you know and so you know we're not going to run out of new patients and clients anytime soon uh even though I hope we do you know I I would love to get back to just doing you know trauma surgeries you know for people that have had accidents and and things that were unavoidable and uh you know this avoidable stuff this this has to go this isn't real medicine you know this is just this is just basic living you know you just need to know the basic skills to to live your life and be healthy uh and we've forgotten that we we actually we've had that driven out of our head and our and our living memory that's what we've done that's what's happened but you know once we correct that when doing things like this and and getting us out there and you know c means and everybody going you know to to Washington which is amazing um you know then we can get back to doing real medicine which is all the accidents emergencies traumas I'd love to get back to that I love doing surgery it's a lot of fun the idea the idea of to me surgeons like are so of the most we got to protect them at all cost because the idea of you guys like going in and actually performing the surgery from a practical standpoint that is I mean you guys are just Heroes to the 10th degree I was thinking about nurses when I was in the hospital nurses in and of their in in in and of themselves in their own right are such Cru are such crucial components of even the most basic uh part of going into the hospital just making you feel comfortable giving you that reassurance but to actually go in and perform is that what you did like were you an orthopedic surgeon no no I'm I'm uh you know been studying neurosurgery so I've been working oh neurosurgery that's right that's right so like you know traumas blood in your brain you're doing so craniotomies craniectomies and you know letting the swelling pump out getting blood off the brain you know sucking out you know big massive clots and things like that dealing with aneurysms abms so that's mainly what you did before you started going into more just like a more of a like a general practitioner sort of Private Practice or is that what you still do um I still do that but more part-time so I do more private work so do sort of like private surgical assisting in neurosurgery at the moment and and then I have my private practice just because my friend who had this practice uh was sort of forced into retirement and uh and didn't have anybody to take over his patients and I didn't want them to just sort of not have anybody and so I and it's also very rewarding you know seeing this sort thing and I've sort of been there part-time and come in all my days off and see patients and just help out just because I enjoyed it uh for free um you know for the last five years you know and that's amazing you know I I knew the patience you know I knew uh all these sorts of things you know that he'd been pushing a carnivore diet on his on his patients for five years because of me and um you know I would come in and talk to them about it and and give them help and all that sort of stuff and um you know so you know it was I felt that I it was something that you know I should do and that's amazing yeah but the plan is is to to continue on and finish up neurosurgery see because I I have so many people that come to me as a trainer Health consultant health professional at this point I do more in office consultations than I do actual training I'm actually opening up a gym next month which I'll go back into the training yeah it's more of like a you're talking about people don't want to fight they don't want to put the gloves on I teach people boxing in Muay Thai so I essentially use combat as a form of cardio to get all of my patients in the gym to do the bare minimum from a biomechanical standpoint that is actually going to fix the Baseline problems like in their walking mechanics let alone in their posture and so by utilizing something more anthropologically appropriate like the idea of throwing a punch is similar to like throwing a spear or throwing a rock right so the biomechanics of utilizing that as an outlet on top of the decompressing of stress right of punching and kicking things out I have so many people that tell me you've changed my life Mitchell oh my goodness you're doing God's work and I'm sitting here thinking like but do you know about Anthony chaffy do you know about the Shawn Bakers the Robert CES like do you know about these guys that are doing actual God's work in the sense of being able to have more there's more on the line when you're in somebody's Cranium and you're having to do neurosurgery than you are talking to somebody in an office about not eating peanut butter so yeah well you know I mean when you're doing neurosurgery it's just sort of you know horses out of the barn like there's just a problem there's an emergency sure something has to get done you know and so um but you know the hope is that uh if more people start getting onto this they'll stop having those chronic changes and issues and degenerative spines and and Cancers and things like that hopefully that will will go down we'll start to Reed and become more rare and uh you know when if if they're needed they're needed but hopefully they're uh they're not needed nearly as much and we just have a lot more free time to like read studies that we were never taught in medical school I think that would be uh that would be a great uh great change um Mitchell uh thank you so much unfortunately I have to have to um run to another meeting but it's been absolute pleasure man it's been great to talk to you I'm really glad we're able to do this thank you so much for taking the time out uh to do this um and uh please uh let us know where people can find you on social media find your documentary and uh and uh you know find more of your work again I appreciate you having me it's it's surreal because I was debilitated in a bed watching the likes of you Robert cyy Sean Baker everybody Gary fety was another one that you got me on actually great yeah oh yeah amazing uh he was actually all of you guys were in the documentary which is awesome so like there's always for me this nostalgic like I have my teachers always there with me to prove that their efforts are actually substantial in where I'm currently at so my documentary you can go on YouTube and just type in um how keto cured my Crohn's so it's how keto cured my Crohns the reason I use keto not carnivore is just because I did add a little almond butter in there in the beginning stages so it' be disingenuous I know listen uh one of my carnivore people is like you've got to change the Apple to a steak like that's the first thing you've got to do on the book that' be good yeah so um yeah you can find me on Instagram at mitch. Thompson MIT c. t m o n um but yeah the main thing is go watch the documentary especially if you follow the the carnivore community and the holistic approach that carnivore and keto can be used for as a metabolic therapeutic is specifically for debilitating diseases like IBD and crones uh take a look at the documentary and see it for yourself so you can actually understand the effect of the actual weight of the words that everybody in the carnivore Community namely these doctors um the weight of it that it actually holds it has changed my life and without the without the work that you and the likes of other doctors are doing Anthony chaffy I wouldn't be where I'm currently at I would probably be on antivo or pregnazon or one of these immunosuppressants and I would probably be as helpless and hopeless that a lot of people before this point had probably felt so find me on YouTube self-sustained training that's where my documentary is find me on Instagram social media it's it's all there awesome we'll put that in the uh in the show notes and uh people can find you there Mitchel thanks so much man it's been an absolute pleasure and uh great talking to you and and really really glad that you're sharing your story with people I'm sure it will help a lot of people thank you thank you for having me hey guys thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say if you like it then please like And subscribe to my YouTu YouTube channel and podcast and if you're on YouTube then please hit that little bell and subscribe and that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out which should be every week if not more and if you could share this with your friends that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing thanks again guys