Dr Anthony Chaffee on the Red Pill Buddhas Podcast with Phil Escott!

okay well welcome back to my latest red pill buddha's podcast and today i have the honor of dr anthony chafee and it's great to get him on uh i came to to see you know first learn about anthony when he became a terrible nuisance on my 100 carnivore and beyond group posting all sorts of terrible misinformation flying in the face of established dietary science and uh posting pics of his abs and stuff i mean the man's obviously completely malnourished but i have it on good authority though that he is uh training hard with uh broccoli trying to get full reps like his hero doctor michael gregor so hopefully it will obtain a proper physique soon but uh no seriously i mean it gives me a lump in my throat when docs wake up and because of what i've done i've just been really really lucky to have got to know a bunch of them shawn and uh zephyr clements and all the other dogs who were just waking up and speaking out about this i think it's so important at the moment to get this message out because um there's a war on meat and you know these these elites are really uh coming down hard on us i i would like this to stay up on youtube so i'm not gonna go too deep into that but um it's uh just great to have you on anthony welcome yeah well thank you very much for having me appreciate it cool so um you did a great interview the other day with our mutual friend bart and i'm going to link that below because i think people should have a look at that too and i don't want to cover too much of the same ground but let us know what happened with the young anthony how did you wake up to this stuff what drew you to being a doctor i have a suspicion that you're one of those weird doctors who actually care about patients and didn't go into it for the money and um and what happened i mean uh in your in your youth were you aware of this did it happen through your medical practice do you have trouble with your colleagues what went on well i i think i'm one of the the few people that that actually wanted to be a doctor ever since i was a kid i remember actually thinking when i was a kid that would be really interesting i always wanted to know just exactly how the body works down to like the molecular level i remember thinking that specifically when i was a young child i think a lot of that had to do with influences from uh family members uh they had some you know very interesting stories of family members my great-grandfather was the you know youngest ever graduate from columbia medical school he finished when he was 20. he finished a six-year program in four years finished when he was 20 and it was like the original doogie hauser of the 1800s because he actually wasn't legal to go start his residency in new york so he had to go home and hang out for a year and then go back and and uh start his residency so very interesting guy had a lot of uh he was in a very interesting time in medical history because this was exactly when anesthesia was developed and sterile practice so he was the second class at columbia taught sterile practice and so this is the very beginning of modern day surgery and he was on the forefront of that and he was actually there looking at things trying to figure out what we could do okay they're trying to figure out surgery trying to figure out making tools he actually had a foundry he could forge metal so he would actually design and make his own surgical tools and equipment i still have some of those and so this is a really cool guy he ended up going to california he was the 13th medical license california ever gave out he ended up in the redlands in southern california because he just really loved the desert southwest and very interesting guy very interesting story and then my father's uncle was one of these original african missionaries where he there weren't really missions set up now there's tons of programs tons of charities to send people all over the world uh to impoverished areas and and so forth there wasn't really uh programs like that a hundred years ago or so i don't know exactly i think he was sort of in the 30s and 40s when he was he was first going over there and uh maybe in the 40s and so he just sort of went out and just started opening up clinics in different areas and and just started just going around hopping around a couple hundred miles every day and just go from clinic to clinic to clinic and and raised his his uh children um you know in that setting my my father said he met his cousins when he was young he said they were like feral animals you know they had no table matters they're just running all over the place wild but what a cool way to grow up and so you just hear these stories and and i was like you know i want to do that i want to do something like that so i was always interested in medicine from a very early age and i was also very interested in in athletics and sports and so i got very heavily involved in that in rugby and training in mma since i was 14. i just got lucky you know one of the top uh gyms and trainers in the world amc kickboxing in kirkland uh with trainer matt hume uh was a few miles from my house so i was there just every hour of every day was open for years and absolutely loved it and so because i always wanted to do medicine i was always interested in the science and i was always very interested in sports i had a natural interest in nutrition and and what that meant scientifically but also what that could do for me as an individual and so i studied this i started all the traditional aspects of nutrition and so forth so i had you know of just just going by the book because i was too young to question these things i didn't know enough to question them and i was always very meat centric i was always always loved meat ever since i was a little kid my my my sister wanted to go vegetarian and i remember hearing that word and it just sounded way too much like vegetables and it just you know i was very nervous about it and i asked my mom you know what does that mean she said well you know vegetarian is someone who only wants to eat vegetables and i was i was like only wants to eat vegetables i was like well then i'm a meatatarian because i only want to eat meat and and i did as as much as i could when i was in university of washington in seattle i was taking a class in cancer biology and we were learning straight away you know the way that plants defend themselves predominantly is by using toxic components and elements and chemicals to deter predation you know make an animal sick or even kill them if they try to eat them and we we know this from basic biology as well actually something i learned in in seventh or eighth grade biology was plants and animals are in an evolutionary arms race plants becoming more and more poisonous so less and less animals can eat them so they can survive and thrive or else to go extinct most things have that have existed have gone extinct at this point animals do the same thing they are evolving and adapting to break down specific poisons and specific plants safely so they can eat that plant or that family of plants and survive and thrive and and then most other things can't ethan this is what of the 340 000 plants in the world koalas one pandas eat one cows horses grazing with wheatgrass and that's pretty much it and you know the leaves that gorilla eats are different from the leaves of the draft eats those are different again from the leaves that it dear eats and so on and while koala's only eucalyptus almost nothing else eats eucalyptus and a koala really can't eat anything else either it will that will make them sick and we know this inherently we go get lost in the woods and we just you know run out of food we try to eat any random plant everyone knows you can't do that because they'll make you very sick and i was asking well why can't you do that like oh well because they're poisonous it's like exactly and this is this is something that's the common theme in the plant kingdom and the fungus kingdom i i always i always think there must have been some um some oh sorry right here i am sorry um yeah i wish i think there must have been some poor dude in the tribe that they um they they sort of sent out to see which plant was uh tried the plants yeah i mean i heard you talking about about this to bar and i've heard it you know honestly i'm very aware of plant toxins but honestly that just covered a little bit of that ground again really drill it into people it was amazing when you said um that there's 160 human carcinogens in um in in brussels sprouts alone yeah i mean tell tell people about this stuff it's amazing yeah so that that was that was that was 20 plus years ago that i took that class in cancer biology and so you know we were looking you know relearning that this is how plants defend themselves is by using you know poisons we were looking at from a car uh cancer perspective so we were looking at carcinogens and 20 plus years ago we had already discovered and learned in this class that brussels sprouts had 136 you know individual known human carcinogens and mushrooms had over 100 spinach kale lettuce salad cabbage cucumber you name it anything that you you could ever buy at a store we were given lists with a number of known human carcinogens that we we already had discovered in these in these plants and i didn't see a single one under 60. so we've known since the 1980s that they're quite abundant uh work from professor bruce ames out of uc berkeley who when they started challenging the idea of using pesticides they said well pesticides these are toxic these are poison we shouldn't use them and he kind of pointed out that we've been using these same pesticides actually in greater uh volume for 80 years and never had a problem but now why are they causing a problem now so he did the science he did the research because he's you know a science minded man and he found that actually there were ten thousand times more naturally occurring poisons in plants than the pesticides we sprout on them by weight and that the naturally occurring poisons were far more likely to cause cancer than the pesticides we're spraying on them so the idea that if you grow it in your own garden or you buy organic then well then that's good no in fact it's the plant itself that causes harm this is why we still have pesticides that's why they're still legal to use because in in respect to the plant itself like spinach or brussels sprouts it's a drop in the bucket it's not it's not bad for you i've been there i've had kidney stones from juicing spinach at the end right ridiculous vegan phase i sent you the pics of my transition and when i was really really skinny i lost all my muscle because i used to have a gym in the late 90s and and then i lost all my muscle and uh on the veganism thing ended up emaciated and it didn't help my joints and i ended up with a really big kidney a kidney stone stuck in the ureter for a long time and had to get it lasered out this is not going back there those oxalates absolutely hideous yeah yeah well and that's the thing too you know we were told by most doctors that a high protein diet is bad for your kidneys so we eat a bunch of plants that have oxalates and other sorts of things you can't process whatsoever and you have to pass them out um either through your urine or some other means and so we we tell people to go on a plant-based even vegan diet in order to protect their kidneys and their kidneys just get worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and and this is and this is what you see i'm certainly not everyone uh every nephrologist nephrologist is doing this but certainly a lot of them are uh i see so many people and so many people reach out to me and and ask me about that exact questions like is this going to be bad for my kidneys and so forth and you know i send them papers and research and so forth because it was thought it was theorized that higher protein would be harder on your kidneys because you have to cleave nitrogen from uh you know the immune group and this gets passed out it gets turned into ammonia and then this gets further turned into urea and we pass out urea and so people think that higher urea means poor kidney function that's not that's not actually the case urea is actually one of your body's strongest antioxidants and so this is actually doing a lot of work in your body a lot of good work in your body to have that up a little bit and it's not a sign i've i've heard this is a quite a common thing that people get very high uric acid levels when they go and often they get attacks of gout and whatever and i've seen um some ideas that that uric acid is is probably pretty similar to cholesterol in that it's the um paramedic at the car crash in there to sort of help stuff out is that is that the way it goes and it's more of a sort of oxalate problem it's um you know it's been a while since i've looked into that so i don't remember the exact details but the the the take-home is is that you know we've we've had studies and research out since the 1800s of of reversing gout by putting people on a pure red meat and water diet so you know this was this was written about by dr j h salisbury you know for for whom the salisbury steak was named he was he was writing about this and he was reversing rheumatoid arthritis crohn's gout um ultra colitis and and many many other things chronic lyme disease and so forth by putting people on a pure red meat and water diet he said that beef was the best lamb was a distant second and so this is something that that we've we've seen and known for for a very long time people are doing this now oh don't eat red meat well if you're eating red meat in the context of all this other crap that you're eating you know sure that that might be a problem but it's it's not the meat that's the problem it's all the other things that are a problem and so if you cut those things out the gout goes away and i apologize i haven't i haven't actually uh brushed up on the exact mechanism of that in a while so i can't describe it perfectly but the take home is that if you if you get rid of all the plants alcohol sugar and so forth that goes away when you go on a meat diet so obviously this isn't uh you know just the fact that you have you have higher you know um you know nitrogen in your in your system and so forth and making more urea and uric acid and so forth so it's not as simple as that and just like you alluded to uh with cholesterol it's not as simple as high cholesterol equals heart disease we know that very clearly because there are studies with hundreds of thousands of patients in america uh who have had a myocardial infarction a heart attack and they found that one half of the of these people have low ldl cholesterol and in fact in two years follow-up the people that still had low cholesterol maintained a low cholesterol had two times the mortality rate of people with high cholesterol so you know and there's a ton of other studies too i was just in a debate on cholesterol and uh you know went against three traditional cardiologists and then argued all these points but you know there isn't even a correlation with with cholesterol uh all the all the major studies have come out recently looking at you know literature reviews and meta-analyses and so forth of all the available literature have found that there isn't even a correlation and we know that there wasn't a correlation originally because the the correlative studies like the seven nations study and uh and other studies that came out in the in the in the 60s and 70s were actually bought and paid for by the sugar companies and we actually know that we have hard evidence of that now the journal of american medical association published that in 2015 and so we have hard evidence we have documentation of this you know the framingham study was misrepresented it actually found that if you reduce cholesterol cardiac death goes up and the american heart association two years later said that it was the opposite said that if you lower cholesterol your heart disease rate went down it was complete fraud they completely misrepresented this study and you think they knew this or or were they just oh yeah still idiots no no no well the the people at the top absolutely knew this they there's there's very clear documentation uh that was reported in that that jama article in 2015 showing that the sugar companies paid off three harvard professors to falsify data and publish fraudulent studies and one of those professors was named head of the usda uh in the late 60s i think 1967 and then he helped author and put publish the usda declaration that cholesterol caused heart disease and and recommended people stop eating cholesterol stop eating saturated fat so this guy was in the pocket we actually know how much he got paid he got paid uh sixty five hundred dollars at the time and that's equivalent of about fifty thousand dollars u.s now that that was the price of his soul and the health of the of the world and um you know you'd think that a tenured professor at harvard would would uh wouldn't be that hard up but apparently he was i i suspect there is a hell of a lot of that going on in the in the medical system at the moment and uh as well you know with all the other lunacy that's going on covering that yeah there's yeah certainly it certainly is and you know it's just a matter of of trying to uncover this stuff it you know it's it's a little late to hold this guy accountable because he's he's passed away but uh we can at least try and undo the damage that he did and he did a lot of damage you know that that declaration caused people to go down the completely opposite route of what they should and and because of it first of all the heart disease rates have tripled since that declaration came through and other diseases have increased obesity rates tripled stroke rates tripled cancer rates have tripled type 2 diabetes increased by 5.8 fold autoimmune diseases autism parkinson's dementia and so forth these have increased exponentially these things almost didn't exist before uh before that now they're the only things we treat people say well when you get old enough if you get old enough everyone will get alzheimer's well they didn't used to that's a that's a very new phenomenon and so you know when we're looking at this we're calling uh yeah no just saying that you know now we're even referring to alzheimer's as type three diabetes because they're there there are metabolic functions going on that even though you have these these very specific plaques that we see on on autopsy in a patient with alzheimer's even if you have those plaques you don't display the disease unless you have certain metabolic situations involved so if you have hyperinsulinemia so high high insulin and high blood sugar and peripheral insulin resistance so this is type 2 diabetes in a nutshell peripheral insulin resistance the insulin stops working as well on your peripheral tissue because you've just been using so much of it for so long it's like any you know drug reaction uh relationship you know you do a bunch of cocaine you get really high but now you you keep doing it you need more and more and more and more and more to get the same high or maybe even less high and so that's the same thing with your tissues with insulin so it gets it gets resistant to that and your brain does too if anybody wants to look into this i think there's some great stuff by i think it's amy berger isn't it and she's done a lot of stuff on on this being you know alzheimer's being type three and and keto diets really turning around the cognitive functions in people when they're starting to show this and you know it amazes me when you look at these tribes and and they're absolutely completely there into their old age and there's no there's great things where it wasn't paul saladino it was um uh it was brian sanders wasn't it and um he went out and uh to these tribes um and recently and he did some podcasts and you know there's like 120 year olds pogoing with the tribes and they're all there you know it's people say oh these people die young you know it's all the infant mortality nonsense and also there is there are some theories aren't there that sometimes they dug these bones up and they said oh you know these these bones are like 30 40 years old you know the person was when they died probably they weren't because they were in such good nick they might have been way older you know so yeah all of this all of this horrible misconceptions coming from that whole vegan thing and the ansel keys thing and i mean ansel keys what did he do when he done all the studies he went often lived in italy probably ate a load of fatty fish and whatever and lived to 100 years old so he ignored his own advice and and benefited from it incredible yeah well i'm sure he well because he flat out knew what was going on so he wasn't going to do it and but unfortunately he he didn't share that with the rest of the world um yeah when you when you look at these you know uh fossil records and so forth you you talk to people about this that you can't actually tell the age of a skeleton or a jaw or teeth past maturity you know you have you have certain points where you can say okay well this is maturing to this point to this point to this point usually we see 18 to 22 and 22 to 26 and you know the lamborgh suture in the back of your head is the last suture in your skull it's used usually about 35 so that guy still had it so he was probably just under that or that one's fused so he's over that but that's all you can tell you can't really tell more than that if you're just going off arthritis and so forth all you can tell is that that person was diseased and they had a problem that you can't necessarily say that they were old or anything like that and so past maturity you can't really tell you just know that this person made it to to physical maturity and and that's it you have no idea how much older they got and so uh and yeah you're right you know with the mortality you know i think i think probably you know uh you and i and other people in this in this category who've basically had people challenge different sorts of things we've gone and looked these things up probably only ones who know this but i have on my phone just a list of different different resources and links and things like that one of them are the census data from the united states going back to 1850 looking at by you know uh 10-year increments the average expected uh average life expectancy of americans at that time and so you look back at 1850 and the average average age from birth was 36 and so this is where everyone gets that say oh well people are only living into their 30s like no they weren't just dying in their 30s this is an average and on average three out of five children died in infancy so you need to actually get pretty old to pull that average up to even 36. and every 10 year increment the the average age can increase dramatically so if you made it you know it was 36 from birth or if you got to 10 it was 56 if you got to 20 it was 66 and so you get into adulthood you get past these uh you know early early causes of death you actually live quite a lot older and so you know they go up to 80 and so in 1850 if you made it to 80 on average you'd make it to 86. well in 2017 which is the last time uh this was updated um that i saw in you know in 2017 if you made it to 80 you made it 88 so you know is that really that much of a difference um you know we have we have all sorts of different uh you know historical figures that live to great ages and this was this was a normal thing it wasn't like my god that guy was that was crazy that was just methuselah making it to 60. no these people regularly uh live to great ages if they made it that far in the first place you know if you didn't die from some exterior force yeah there there is a lot of talk now i mean i don't know if you've been down this deuterium rabbit hole but um you know really but i've heard about it yeah yeah yeah but it's fascinating you know that this might be at the root of aging and it also points to the efficacy of the carnivore diet because when you're eating really high fats from animals that have been fed their proper diet then it's very low in deuterium and actually causes the cells to produce their own deuterium depleted water and um you find that in a lot of these blue zones where the the vegans lie and say that they're on plant-based diets which they aren't obviously you know there's a whole load of deception about that but they're quite often in areas where there's very low deuterium water supply and whatever and apparently you know we should be living to 120 or so and if the if the mitochondria aren't blown up by the deuterium that's you know in the fruits and whatever um and in all the processed food and in the water that we get from the tap or the faucet as you guys say but um i you know i i think it's a great one if anybody wants to look into this or dr laszlo borosh and he's he's done a couple of interviews with us but um he's also a 1962 gemini drummer like me and so i understand him he's uh well not not when he goes into the science but um he he is he's very cool and he said something really interesting when we last interviewed him which was um i think more and more people are realizing the real dangers of seed oils and just how horrific they are and they were never designed as food in the first place but he was saying that you know to deplete deuterium in the body um to to reduce the the chances of autoimmunity cancer whatever it's possible and nature has ways of doing that if it's taken in through carbohydrate sources like berries and you know fruits and nuts and whatever in season but when it goes in by seed oils you can't get it out and it just stays in there and you have to sort of end up doing like i don't know an 11 day dry fast or something if you're lucky but it i mean the huge rates of cancer since the seed oils came in um yeah and it just seems to point it it's just one of those other things ways of looking at it if you look away from all the diet gurus suddenly you can see you know you look into anthropology looking to deteriorate look at it and it just seems to explain why it is that you've stayed so healthy and i've regained my health from multiple autoimmune and metabolic diseases right yeah the logic isn't there is there because where are the studies yeah well yeah and that's the thing you know uh alan savory pointed out um you know that people are saying you know you won't study study study where's your study where's your disorders or that and he said that you know that's not science that's not what science is that's academia and if you're if you're the only thing that matters is a study then then you're not really doing science and there are so many bad studies out there i mean they're just terrible you know in the humanities this is a good example in the humanities eighty percent of the studies and the papers published have zero citations zero so that is insane i mean you're talking about probably millions of of papers and studies that people in in that field just look down like that's useless like there's there's nowhere to go with that eighty percent that's wild so studies mean f all really but a well designed study is very useful you know you have a properly controlled double-blinded study uh with placebo group and so forth you know that that can give you a lot of very good information but they don't they don't always and you don't always design them very well and also it's very important to understand that there is evidence that exists outside of of the randomized controlled study you know we had going back to the ancient greeks we had the you know the idea of logic and and so forth being able to figure out what is fundamentally true just through logical thought and and and and uh and debate and you know just like there's no uh there's no randomized control study to show that parachutes work there are also no randomized control trials to show that the pythagorean theorem works but it does it's been it's been mathematically proven it's been logically proven and you can take a little bit of logic to realize that parachutes are probably a good idea as well if you're going to jump out of an airplane and so the people that get stuck on like no no no i want to say well you don't have a study that shows this exact thing about carnivores so what yeah but anthony i mean you know in the last little while if you if your parachute didn't open you still died of covered yeah well that's true or or you could have yeah exactly and uh or there was there was a great one um where uh this late i forget where she was from she was a medical examiner uh in the u.s somewhere and she was just pointing out that that there were so many more cova deaths being reported than an actual being she's it's a small town she's the only uh you know pathologist there she's like um no excuse me that's that's not what i put on my form and you know she she said that there was there was one there was it was an actual murder suicide very tragic uh case of of of a guy you know killing his partner and and then killing himself they put it down as covet deaths and she's like i'm sorry that that is not what that is and so um and god even knows if they even were positive with covid but they were you know they they didn't die from that regardless and so yeah you see you see a lot of that and so again you know perfect example of why you really can't necessarily trust studies or data and so forth and again you know we we just touched on multiple studies that were you know world-renowned and you know very very highly uh thought of and we're complete bunk and you know tenured harvard professors head of the usda and so forth that we have documentation showing that they were corrupt actors and and purposely pushing out false information and so forth so when you when you look at these things and you and you add these things up together you don't necessarily need a study studies are great i think i think it'd be great to start doing more studies there's a harvard study that came out that showed actually quite just yeah yeah yeah so you know it was it was an epidemiological study and a lot of these things can be uh you know pretty crap but if they're very well designed and very carefully done you can actually get pretty good information from that and they found that that everyone improved and everyone found that their uh different sort of medical issues diabetes autoimmune disorder they improved it significantly all of them so that's that's quite interesting and i and it was with you know 2 000 people and you know these are epidemiological studies these aren't perfect these aren't there aren't controlled but it's it's a very very good uh you know proof of concept and and uh you know a grant proposal for for a larger actually controlled study to actually look at this sort of thing and so i think that that's going to start opening the door and the more that this becomes mainstream because people can you know can see evidence that doesn't exist in a randomized controlled trial that more and more people are going to be reversing their own issues and getting better and getting healthier and and people are going to have to start taking notice and with this this the advent of this harvard trial i think that that legitimizes things quite a bit and so people in academia can actually start doing bigger studies as well because you know it's it's it's fresh it's unbroken ground you know you could really make a name for yourself putting out you know big publications and big studies on this because no one else has so you know the the everyone knows about this harvard study because it's the only one of really really looking specifically at this so these guys you know their names are enshrined now and you can really make a name for yourself if you do this and i think people will now that that's out and more and more people are showing clear benefits and we're rediscovering things because there were studies just in the hundreds going back to the 1800s showing all of this stuff like like nothing i'm saying is is new like salisbury knew pretty much all of this except for you know maybe the molecular details of all these sorts of things but you know he wrote an entire book about you know called the relationship the relation of alien mentation and disease and lamentation being you know what you eat your almighty track is your digestive tract so the relationship between food and disease and you know i'm i'm writing a book at the moment basically arguing the exact same thing that you know these so-called chronic diseases that we treat are not diseases per se but toxicities and toxic buildup of species and appropriate diet and a lack of species-specific nutrition so namely too many plants not enough meat and he wrote this book 150 years ago you know you probably don't even need to hear it from me i'm just talking about any more of a of a current context i think i think this has been covered up for so long you know the stuff that you were talking about there and some some of that is new to me and i'd love to love to hear more about that well i'd like to get you on maybe into our members area where we can talk about lots of the stuff that we probably couldn't talk about here you know but but um you know i i used to write sort of plant-based books and i used to be very um keen on ayurvedic medicine and looked into that an awful lot and even that has been horrendously perverted when you look back into the old texts that are thousands of years old the bhava prakash the cheruk samhita they're saying that the most nourishing food for the body is the meat of freshly killed animals and they're saying it's like amrit like nectar and nowadays all the ayurvedic practitioners at least in the west are saying oh no you have to be vegetarian they're all living on rice and dal you know just grains and pulses and they're all sick and i was you know obviously when i at that and it was funny my son i have a son who's 32 as well and uh we brought him up veggie and it didn't do him any good in fact his neck x-ray now is incredible it's just all titanium he had a whole third of rectangle because he had an aneurysmal bone cyst at about 11. and i'm sure this was probably autoimmune and diet related you know um everything is to a certain extent but he went out for a panchakarma treatment into uh to kerala in india and um uh ten years ago maybe or more um uh no ten years ago would have been ten years ago or so and he said to the divider there would you have um what would you have done for my dad you know because he's reversed his arthritis on meat and fat and stuff like that and um and the guy said absolutely spot on it would have been brains and meat and lots of ghee i just still don't think completely ideal but still it's right there you know and these guys you know who are in touch with the real old texts and and i think it's been covered up for years i mean we did this red pill revolution book recently but that was just to show really how the elites have sort of fooled us but now we've just we've just on the edge of publishing the red pill food revolution book and we've gone into is five of us who have co-authored it we do it in a crazy way with zoom calls and ben the hunt but wonderful writer writes it all out that we say but um it's it the whole thing has been covered up about food and how it's happened and and then even to sort of reflect what's happening now the possibility of the rise of the psychopath um with with agriculture because in a hunter-gatherer society there's no real place for these psychopaths to be at the top the whole thing you look at the depth of it and how we have been controlled by food and horrendous misinformation often through the religious and spiritual channels you know has been incredible over the years but it's all there in the old texts it's even there in the bible isn't it i hear you know god didn't like the props from cain and everybody he wanted the fatty meat yeah yeah exactly and uh you know speaking about you know the the traditional sort of indian uh views on things i have a friend of mine who was uh you know nurse surgical uh resident with me and has had some subsequently uh moved on to a different different specialty but uh he was he's ethnically uh and traditionally indian his parents are very traditional they you know they only i think they're overlapped vegetarians but they you know very very plant-based and he was eating that way as well and he was he was strict vegan for a long time and he was doing it for health reasons you know he was being told well this is the healthiest thing you can do and so forth and he was very sick he was very weak he's taller than me i'm six three he's probably six four six five but very skinny very lanky and and quite quite pale didn't you know sort of sickly pale wasn't didn't didn't look vigorous and healthy and he was he was um you know just just sitting there chatting with me after uh you know a meeting we had on a saturday and we just started got into talking about all this and nutrition and so forth so i just you know started telling about it and why i only meet and avoid everything else and he was you know very interesting like wow that that's crazy and you know i started just you know quoting texts and quoting studies and and and uh saying like yeah i can i can send you a bunch of resources i can send you a bunch of studies like yeah yeah please do and so i send all this stuff you know he's a very studious guy he really really digs into these sorts of things so he really went after this and really started researching his stuff everything i sent him he read and and continued on reading more things himself and he went full carnivore after that went from strict vegan to full carnivore he was saying at the time uh at the hospital that we're at he said just just walking up from the ground floor up to two floors two flights of stairs up to our office he he would get out of breath he'd actually have to stop he'd actually have to stop and catch his breath he's not fat he's not overweight he was underweight if anything and and a young guy you know he's in his late 20s so this is not something that should have been happening to anybody at that at that age and description as soon as he went on on carnivore diet just completely reversed all that just felt amazing started lifting weights guys huge now he's just jacked and like you know and he must have stacked on like i don't know i've got 20 30 kilos of muscle you know the guy just got got ripped and his brain fog went away his brain started working again just everything got better so one of the things he was researching was the history that you're talking about and he said that there was a switch around i think 1100 a.d where it was it was almost like a sort of a political commercial sort of move there was another religion coming in and sort of competing and they were like taking followers taking followers so they wanted to basically have a gimmick to you know make them more unique and and get people back and that was what they came up with say oh you have to be kind on animals it's all spiritual and you know you know sacred sort of thing before that he said the original text was like you know when you have someone you have a special guest come over you must sacrifice a bull and and have a feast and and he said all these relig all these rituals and all these traditions all revolved around slaughtering a bull and and having a feast it was always a feast of meat feast of meat peace to meat piece to meat it was it was that that change for you know political popularity purposes you know whatever it was that that actually switched over this was not in the original text this was not part of the original doctrine and so you know that's that's um that was very interesting it's been going on for a long time but i think you're right that things change and we don't necessarily know why we don't always ask questions and and you know the same thing happened with cholesterol and so forth we completely change the entire course of humanity by by just saying ooh cholesterol is bad so what does that mean that means you have to be healthy you have to stop eating meat especially red meat and eggs you have to eat more things that don't have cholesterol because that was the only thing that mattered was if it had cholesterol if it didn't have cholesterol it was good for you by definition that's why they had bags of candy that said fat-free okay you know heroin is fat-free okay go try survive on that and you know so you know we have we have that change the things that you say about about that guy the vegetarian lacto-ovo vegetarian i mean i see the same thing so much up here because i moved up here where i am at the moment in the north of england from the from the south of england to be a part of this transcendental meditation community you know i thought right i'm going to give up being a musician i was sick of it i want to i want to just be a yogi the rest of my life so anyway i moved up here and at that time they were all reasonably healthy you know and then the the the slide down into ill health has been so marked and now the guys you know i'm i'm 60 this year but some of these guys are like 5 10 years older than me most of them and i have lost so many friends to cancer i'm not really part of this like you know there's as much [ __ ] in the spiritual community as there is in the diet community so i'm i'm right on the fringes of it but i still know these people they've sort of grouped up a couple of streets away from me pretty much but there's quite a lot of them i don't know maybe four or 500 at a certain time but there's there's a video i've got on my channel on my youtube channel it's if anybody wants to look at it it's called why spiritual people still die of cancer and it's not all dietary but you know the only two people i know in this whole community who've reversed a serious illness is me and my mother you know i sent you that vid of her breast cancer reversal and in her 90s and um but they are sliding down i've lost so many of my friends to cancer you know i mean two on the same day a couple of years ago and it it's just crazy the cancer rates among the people who are eating like that are um are higher than the local sort of mcdonald's eating population as far as i can see and what they do quite often they go they sort of start to crave a bit of protein so then they go oh well i must add a bit of chicken and fish and they do that and it's it's it does nothing once it's all there with all the lectins from the from the grains and and the pulses that they're eating and so oh i can't eat that it made me feel even worse yeah of course it did right the thing is what i keep saying it's not about eating meat this isn't the magic medicine it's about cutting all the plants isn't it but it's so hard to get through their cognitive dissonance even when they kind of accept it quite a lot of them they just still go on they still die autoimmunity and cancer running rife among the spiritual community because they they're influenced by that it's indian diet you know yeah and and you you you know hit the nail right on the head with that you know it's not just eating meat meat isn't the cure meat isn't curing anything it's just basic sustenance um the cure is removing the poison and that that is what this is that's why that's why i call this a you know a poison that's why i call this a toxicity because it is you know when you have exposure to lead you get lead poisoning we could look at this in a molecular level and and see exactly what's happening biochemically and figure out some novel molecule and drug to you know mitigate these reactions and have you die slowly over 40 years or or you could figure out that this is actually a poisoning this is not a disease and you remove the offending uh offending agent and all of a sudden you know the issue goes away and that's what we see when people when you remove the offending agent these people's problems go away diabetes goes away heart disease goes away autoimmune disorders go away i'm not saying that it's going to cure every single problem out there but it's going to cause it's going to cure every single problem out there that's being caused by these poisons that's that's definitely true and you're awesome i i have a um an auto immunity course out there an online automatic course for that 30 video thing and it's called the subtraction method because this is what it's about and it's my favorite expression about that is you know if you're sitting on a nail don't take an aspirin for the pain get off the [ __ ] nail right yeah absolutely yeah because with that that's exactly it you know we're treating symptoms we're not treating the disease mostly because people don't know what the hell is causing the disease but instead of actually trying to figure that out you will just go like ah well you know it's something something happens and so let's suppress the immune system well the immune system's going ape [ __ ] for a reason and you know you may want to try and figure that out and when you have a cause and effect relationship of you know these genetically susceptible people getting uh you know rheumatoid arthritis or gout or crohn's or whatever and you you you all of a sudden you get you can reverse that by removing something from their diet something from their environment that that's a very straightforward relationship and it's and it's essentially one to one i mean i i've i have yet to meet a patient or someone who i've who's reached out to me and and i've discussed this with has has failed that i mean i'm sure there are people out there but i would i would argue that there probably haven't they probably haven't eliminated everything out of their diet yet they probably haven't eliminated everything out a lot of people they go carnivore or they think they go carnivore because it's just about eating meat right so they eat a lot more meat um that's not carnivore carnivore is you know the subtraction method like you say it's not eating all the other crap and that's why i try to stress to patients and friends is that it's eating meat is is definitely good but the real trick is not eating all the other things because it's the other things that are causing the problems in the first place and so it's it's really important to get rid of that and a lot of people have had that have a really hard time getting really just pure down to just meat and water and a lot of them will say like oh well you know they're doing so much better everything's great but oh they're still having this issue or that issue maybe they have diarrhea or maybe they don't have the exercise tolerance that you know i have and they say oh why isn't it working for me and and every time i pick at it and i pull out it it turns out that they're using stevia in their coffee which you know neither of which you're supposed to have and or having you know sweetening things with like monk fruit you know sugar and stuff like that and oh why didn't i wish carnivore would have worked for me because it really helped my autoimmune disease but you know i didn't lose weight and i didn't really feel that great like well you know you you haven't actually tried it yet you know you've eliminated most of the poisons and so you've gotten rid of most of the poisoning but there's still stuff in there and there there's still uh room to improve you know exactly i i think one of the most common things i get when i when i do a console and and you know it's it's it's funny because i sort of sometimes have to pinch myself at the amazing results i get because i'm a drummer right you know like i said to that oncologist when i'd seen cancer reversals and he hadn't and i'm a drummer but i do these consoles because i've kind of been through it and i've taken all the wrong turns and most of the of the uh things i see are people who come to me with autoimmunity either at the start and then they're fine you can get them on the track but if there's a problem it's like i've tried carnivore and you know when you are very autoimmune you know when the gut's very leaky and everything's really kicking off and flaring it's like sophia clements told me when it was our last carnival conference in spain and sophia from paleo medicine you know she came along and and um she was saying even a few molecules of dairy can keep these things flaring up sometimes and just tiny things and then i realized that people are eating a load of pork chicken and egg whites and that's fantastic if you've got a healthy gut you know or you're just somebody who's got diabetes because that's like that shouldn't even be classed as an illness i don't think it's so easy to get rid of but you know when you're trying to get rid of the the autoimmunity i know that when i was really sick if i ate an egg white or if i ate some chicken i'd be in agony and you know to cut that out for a while i can eat it now now and again i don't really base my diet on it i'll eat it maybe once a month or something like that but it's lamb and beef basically it's still fatty lamb and beef and that really seems to be the sweet spot you know with the high fat as well often they're eating too much protein and not enough fat you know and they're saying oh well sean baker eats all that or whatever you know and you're going yeah but he doesn't have a leaky gut and he's training hugely right now you don't want to be focusing on training and getting huge you need to you need to just get sorted out in fact that was one of the most amazing things that made me realize that my gut was the the my gut was now but also that all of dietary um knowledge was was nonsense because i ran a gym in late 90s and i got pretty big and i used to train people i used to write for hard gain and magazine and whatever which i loved because they'd sorted out the sort of abbreviated training rather than you know let's follow the flex magazine things for the steroid boys and all that which doesn't really generally work for people and i got big but i never got lean you know i wasn't fat but i was never lean i never got a set of abs and then i got my first set of abs at 202 in 2012 at 50 years old lying on the sofa eating nothing but fatty meat trying to recover from rheumatoid arthritis and yeah and i got a set of abs and i'm like hold on everything's wrong here everything's upside down yeah well i think that's what they say you know abs or abs are made in the kitchen and it's very true you know you can have all the musculature that you want but if it's covered in a layer of fat it doesn't matter doesn't matter how many sit-ups you do after that point um you know i i often say that it's the last five percent of going pure carnivore that gives you about 95 of the results and and there's a lot of reasons for that because you know it's not you know every gram of something bad doesn't give you an equal response and and degradation to your health if you look at carbohydrates for for instance when you eat just a small amount of carbohydrates this raises your insulin your insulin stays up for quite some time insulin you know blocks proteolysis it blocks lipolysis um in layman's terms it forces energy into your cell it doesn't allow it to come out of your cells and so when your insulin goes up you have now locked down your fat cells and so you can't you cannot access them and so now you have to keep eating carbs keep eating carbs keep eating carbs to maintain your blood sugar because your body can't do it for you now your body's very very efficient at maintaining its own levels and and taking care of itself so just the the idea of that you have to you know micromanage your own blood sugar levels that doesn't that that seems very off to me anyway just knowing how the rest of the body works and so when you don't do that your body takes care of it when you eat carbohydrates even a little bit of carbohydrates and it raises that insulin up and that stays up for generally around 24 hours 18 to 24 hours it's it's shut down your entire metabolic system and so you feel like crap and now your blood sugar is going to be low all day because you know you're not eating any more carbohydrates to give you the energy and your body can't produce them and so you feel like crap so just that little bit of carbs actually derailed you significantly it completely kicked you out of your main metabolic state which is where all of your heavy machinery comes to bear biochemically and it's where we have tons of studies showing the benefits of fasting and so forth the benefits of fasting are not food deprivation the benefits of fasting is not eating stupid [ __ ] and not specifically not eating carbohydrates because then you get into a fasting metabolism and we find that people in a fasted metabolism have the same benefits of people who fast and so you have to ask yourself well maybe that's our primary metabolic state debt and maybe the food that keeps us in that that state are more in keeping with what our we've been biologically designed to eat and so just a little bit of carbohydrates keeps you out of that you know dairy has has some carbs as well it can screw you there too so just getting rid of that last little bit it is such a huge hurdle and as far as your health is concerned it does so much for your health you know uh artificial sweeteners and so forth people don't realize this but that can also raise your blood sugar they think oh just because oh i'm not eating carbs i'm not eating carbs and that's fine but you're eating something that emulates carbs and elicits a similar reaction in your body as carbs and so you're getting the same damage in so far as you're changing your metabolic state which is very very significant and so just getting rid of those last little things uh just makes a massive difference massive difference it does yeah yeah and i i mean on the fasting thing i when i one of the reasons i think i ended up so skinny particularly apart from the fact i wasn't taking any proper nutrition on that vegan thing was that every time i ate i'd get horrendous pain because obviously i was eating all the crap and the plant toxins so i'd end up fasting for longer and longer periods and i remember the longest i i did was 11 days on just water and now there are which you know nowadays you know when you see these fasting groups that's actually kind of baby steps that is supposed to be according to the russian literature the way to blow up any type of cancer is to do an 11 day dry fast you know to really get the stem cells going and to get all the autophagy and apoptosis kicking in and apparently on the sort of i think 8th and 10th days you have something called some acidotic crisis or something and that blows up every it's extraordinary research it's it's very interesting there's a a youtube channel called um uh the the phoenix protocol the august dunning in his book but he refers back to the russians who who've done this stuff very very interesting stuff but i tell you one thing that we are having quite a lot of um success with is is something that we were inspired by with um this is uh dr jeremy ayers is is doing this um a lot as well who i work with in in the red pill guys and the human unleashed thing i'm sure you'll meet him at some point you must come on with it with all of us it'll be fun yeah but um he's he's been doing uh these protocols we we learned about it really from a guy i won't mention his name because he's he's kept himself very much under the radar he's fixed so many people's cancer over the last few decades that you know he's kept under the radar and hasn't ended up face down in a swimming pool for doing it you know and uh he he had this protocol where he was feeding people for one day and then fasting them for three days and then feeding them for one day fasting them for three days and he was getting all sorts of things beautiful results where he was having the uh he was uh taking pictures of the retina of for people and seeing actually new blood vessels growing back into the retinas on his clients and everything and all sorts of reversals of of all kinds of things but he came along to the carnival conference because he realized that it was an awful lot more effective if that feasting day was pure carnival and it was working a whole lot better than even his previous protocols that have been reversing the cancer because it was getting some nutrition into them and we've actually seen uh some some weight increases in sort of ms people who are doing the fasting and feasting thing when they weren't increasing their weight every day i think sometimes the gut is just so incredibly delicate at a certain stage it can't take meat you know but i just even meat you know too often but i just say to people where did our intuition go you know eat when you're to the autoimmune people eat when you're really really hungry eat a load of fatty meat until you're full and then wait until you're hungry again because we've got how many times do i eat how much do i have to eat how much and it's like where do i did our intuition go even when you're hungry stay full and don't eat too late at night and that's it really isn't it it's kind of simple yeah i i get a lot of people uh asking you know for a you know meal plan if i you know if i do individualized meal plans and so forth and they're you know they're they're trying to you know pay me to do this and i just i can't i can't do that it's like look it's it's really simple i'll just tell you for free it's just one paragraph just you know eat fatty meat don't eat all the other crap drink water to thirst eat until you're satiated listen to your taste if if meat tastes good that means you're hungry your body wants the nutrients keep going until it doesn't taste as good and then stop and that's it that's your meal plan you know whatever hell animal that you want whatever moves and how to face like just do it and then whatever you prefer and whatever you like and enjoy makes you feel the best um you know and and so you know i direct people to my my instagram because i do a lot of posts just talking about little things like this and talking about you know meal plan i was like well listen i'm happy to help you and and do this with you if you really want to but why don't you read these posts first and if you get the information you need then that's great and if not and you want more then then we can we can do something uh i you know most people don't come back they're like yeah no that that's it because it is very simple you know you know exactly what you can eat you know exactly what you can't eat you can eat whenever you want doesn't matter time of day or night it does it really doesn't matter unless you're eating carbohydrates if you eat right before you go to bed um and and you know and you you have whatever portion feels right to you and so this is this is very very straightforward and so i'm like i can't i can't take your money just to tell you that i've already told you that like i've got nothing else like that's it you know and so i'd feel like a a fraud to like just sit there and just repeat the same thing again um you know talking about the the gut you're right you know some people have very very damaged guts and this is something that salisbury actually found out this is why he made the salisbury steak the salisbury steak was a way of grinding down beef in a particular fashion that it filtered out the gristle of of the beef so it only got just the meat and just the fat and all the gristle stuff was filtered out of it and this was because you know he was treating people that had extremely poor guts and you know i mean this is a hundred years before we had any any feasible treatment for crohn's and ulcerative colitis people having you know copious bloody diarrhea and just so much pain and so this was something when you took the gristle out you would absorb basically 100 of it and so none of it would go out through your colon and so this this completely rested your bowel and and you can do this in other ways as well but um you know even now we use this a low residue diet when we're trying to rest the bowel when you've had bowel surgery or you have diverticulitis or or appendicitis or something like that we're treating conservatively we're not removing them operatively and so people get put on a low residue diet so things that don't have fiber things that don't you know make you excrete waste and this helps this helps your body rest and and heal and so forth well that's what meat is and the and then you know as soon as everyone you know things get healed they go oh now you need to eat a bunch of fiber because that's really good for your gut what was good for your gut why wasn't it good for your gut five minutes ago you know shouldn't shouldn't it be something shouldn't something that's good for your gut be beneficial in in times of of stress and strain you would think so you know and you know you don't take antibiotics every time you don't have an infection you know oh they're really good for you antibiotics are really good for you oh but you don't want to take that crap when you're actually sick you know just i mean that it's just backwards and so that's what salisbury was doing and so you get these these things you have basically no residue you just weren't passing uh passing waste and so you completely rested uh rested your bowel and uh yeah and so you're right you know these people that were and he actually i read an article of his uh in the late 1800s when when someone was talking about the salisbury steak and basically misrepresentative just is just sort of ground beef and he and he wrote a letter to the editor and said no this is really important this is there's a very specific way of doing this this is very very important because there are people that have such bad guts and so much pain and such a hard time you cannot just eat ground beef you know you have to grind this in a very specific way so that that it takes out all of the gristle he called it the the fiber of the meat and so he was he he found this as well that you really really had to be some of these people are so unwell that you any residue what was too much and so like you're saying you know you know dr baker or you now or or myself maybe we can eat these sorts of things without a problem but the people that are that are still recovering that are still quite sick you know they really can't and so um you know it's uh uh something that you you we've been seeing for 150 years and that's and that's again another treatment with the carnivore diet and specifically the salisbury steak is is just the end-all be-all this is how you rest your gut and recover from these sorts of things that's fantastic i mean you know they still misinterpreted it these days though haven't they i mean i remember a good friend of mine um called me up from hospital and he said i've got such bad ulcerative colitis i'm in here now i'm in tremendous pain and they got me on watch because they think it might perforate and they might have to take out my mic and all this and they said but they've got me on a low residue diet i said what's that he said well i have to have white bread rather than brown bread and i went back this is not a low residue diet i'm going to bring in some some stuff for you so we took him in some thermos you know with warm bone broth with sort of ground beef in it and some fat you know some extra tallow and whatever and he went this is exactly what they told me not to eat he said give it to me [Laughter] daddy and he went on to eat that and got out of hospital and he didn't have to have any surgery and then he he carried on eating like that and he went back and they put cameras up and they said only tiny patches of information now and and now and then it went and like beautiful results and uh you know he was in there and they said okay well you got to eat a lot of white bread like come on yeah no and yeah exactly and and so um you know they got they got one part right it was you know fiber bad but you know there's there's more out there and you know we get very myopic uh people do we look at you know just there's just one thing and that's it that's one stop shop this is what's bad cholesterol that's it as long as you don't need cholesterol nothing else matters then you get you know the ketogenic sort of things carbohydrates as long as it's not carbohydrate then it's like well god damn it guys there's there's so much out there that is actually really bad for you and so you know it's it's more than that and you have to you know recognize that uh to your point i have so many people reaching out to me um you know because i did a talk on on youtube and on my my podcast on spotify that you know specifically about autoimmune and looking at the history of this and you know there were multiple books and you know just hundreds of studies talking about this since the 1800s and you know as recently as 1975 uh there's dr um vogtland it's a v-o-e-g-t-l-i-n um you know he was a gastroenterologist and he was basically writing about all this and just saying oh look you know where there's a book called the stone age diet and he basically argued that you know these these diseases again are just being caused by the food you eat and you know he's basically argued that he didn't need to exist as a profession as a gastroenterologist as long as you didn't eat plants and and then you know 1977 hit and that all got thrown out the window so this is actually comes up right up to that mark and then it just gets tossed but interestingly um there was several studies recently looking at specifically crohn's and then some with ulcerative colitis as well most of these were with crohn's that um an elemental diet which is basically you just break down you think it is like almost like pet food like an ensure thing where you're you're just getting the basic nutrients that you need outside of the of the plant or animal that it came from and you just you just take out this is how many calories this is how many this is how much vitamin this and vitamin d and fat and so forth so you get this elemental diet so it has those core nutrients and i'm you know obviously gonna have way more carbs and then you're gonna want but at least it didn't have all the other crap that came in in your garden salad and they found that when putting crohn's patients on an elemental diet this had better efficacy for acute flare-ups and for keeping people in remission then steroids so steroids are the mainstay for these sort for these autoimmune diseases and they found that just putting people on this diet was better than steroids and that people put on a you know low residue low fiber low carbohydrate diet they found that this was able to keep um people out of on remission with crohn's on average of 51 weeks so you know and only like a 10 uh sort of recurrence rate per year and contrast that with the control group that you know was a normal high fiber diet and things like that they kept zero people out of remission for any period of time so you know this is this this is very very strong evidence that again it's the food causing the disease and if you remove that you you get rid of the disease and there's tons of people have been reaching out to me and i'm sure reached out to you saying that you know especially in in response to that autoimmune uh video that i did talking about how you know they went carnivore and they reversed their crohn's reverse their ulcerative colitis reversed their rheumatoid arthritis and so forth they had the colonoscopies and again they found no evidence of disease no evidence of inflammation and so forth and and again this is just completely counterintuitive it goes against everything that we've been told to think and believe and to do but it's right and you know when you have people doing the wrong thing but getting the right results you really have to question the the advice you're giving to people unfortunately not many people are i have a friend of mine who had kidney disease he had chronic kidney disease he was like 35 and he had something like 19 kidney function and he sort of made a couple comments on instagram several years ago about how you know he was dealing with this and his kidney function is just getting slowly worse he was eating it was like you know low protein eat a bunch of plants he was a huge power lifter he did strong man competition so he you know previously eaten a lot of protein oh that's what did it that's what killed your kidneys you know you really got to get rid of all that crap and they put him on all these medications and his kidney function just getting slowly slowly worse and they're like oh well imagine if we if we weren't giving you all these this great advice and medication imagine how fast that would go and he sort of commented like you know this is sort of a you know a slow progression to the end and you know i may not be able to see my daughter graduate high school you know and and so i just sort of reached out to him and just just early on and my research into this and just said hey look you know there's all this research showing me all the oxalates and so forth it's actually bang up your kidneys these are these and other things are found in plants and they they really screw you up scrub your kidneys in a lot of different ways and that you know there are these studies that actually show that no protein high protein diets don't actually cause kidney dysfunction and damage to your kidneys that's been debunked that was a a speculation and it you know sounded good at the time but when you actually did the studies found the exact opposite results and so and i was like yo and and you're avoiding these plants you're giving your body something good and you humans actually are carnivores this is how our body's supposed to work you know i think you you would find benefit from this and i've seen people in different carnivore groups on on facebook and so forth who had literally come off dialysis by going on a carnivore diet which is crazy like that i don't think that's really ever happened before outside of that and so i told him and he said you know what screw it like i've got nothing to lose and you know you've been you know um sending me these articles and things like that it all makes sense i'm going to give it a try he went near the carnival i think he went all practically fully carnivore maybe full carnival for a while but anyway started doing that his doctor lost it absolutely lost he's like you're going to die you're going to kill yourself you know if you don't do this you know you have to take these meds you have to eat this way or you're that's it for you and he said you know what screw you you know your advice has been getting me worse i'm going to try something and in three months he was back up to 80 kidney function and his doctor was still trying to get him to take the damn meds and still trying to get him off okay well you know you got lucky but you know you really got to get all this stuff it's like dude this is not you know this is not vegas it's not just like oh you got to be careful get out of there now you're going to crap out and you're going to lose all that you get no no it's it's what he was doing was giving him the benefit and again you know like cognitive dissonance like you're seeing the results in front of your face happen in real time and you have that contrast with all your other patients that are only getting worse by your advice you need to think and have a bit of introspection and insight into your own practice because what you're doing is wrong it was a guy we talked about with um with bart uh garth davies like that jackass like this guy you know he's a bariatric surgeon and we got into it online and guys just he's just i don't know he's just not very smart him and nodowski like i just i was not really impressed with these guys arguments and they got around my arguments by blocking me and then responding to my thing oh yeah well what about this and so i found out about that and so i made other accounts and went on be like well [ __ ] all this and um and you know this guy is a bariatric surgeon so this guy does surgeries to you know gut people so that they can't physically fit as much food into their body and so they force starve themselves and this guy's pushing a plant-based diet and so forth and and i just point out to him i was like look buddy if your diet was such a good idea your your and your recommendation to your own patients works so well you should not have a job you should not be able to do any of these surgeries these are extremely expensive surgeries they cost thirty forty thousand dollars just for the surgery uh you know not to mention all the follow-up care and the complications and re-operations and so forth they're life-threatening all surgery uh is but this is uh particularly dangerous in a lot of a lot of ways carries a lot of high burden of side effects and morbidity after the fact and so you know you're causing harm and you know your your recommendations are pushing more people into harm's way and so you're either extremely dishonest and and you know knowingly pushing people into uh the wrong thing or you're just an idiot because you can't see what's in front of your face you're telling people eat this way and we won't have to do surgery and they get fatter and fatter and sicker and sick and go they must not have been listening to me nadowski did the same thing he said that you know i was like oh i've been i've been cutting my calories but you know i can't lose weight and he said yeah well that means you're lying he has a stupid little me the guy does a lot of memes they're really lame i mean you're a grown ass man you know it's just like no we should be like no you shouldn't be making memes all day you know like a child and um and that was it it's just like it's like oh you should cut your cows just say no oh i have cut my calories but i can't lose weight and then the response was you're lying great that's really witty you're an idiot like that's my response to that is because you know your biochemistry is a little more complex than that you know there are calories that exist in you know tablecloth okay your body can't access those the same as it can from from a glass of juice and that doesn't you know get carried out the same way as a fatty steak or bacon or lettuce these things are chemicals they have different chemical responses in your body and anybody with with any inkling of biology you know as any doctor really should because you had to take a lot of prerequisites in the basic sciences uh to just get into medical school you should understand that and so just saying that calories in calories out is nonsensical and uh and and their results are bad they're getting bad results and so i you know they're either uh you know bad actors and intentionally misleading people for their own profit or their idiots and like either way you should not be trusting these people with your health exactly i you know when i uh when i kind of i really started to fix myself i hadn't cut all the plants but i cut most of them and things got dramatically better and it was i think 2012 or something like that and some um appointment popped up with my rheumatologist you know it was just a repeat checkup thing i hadn't booked one because my medical file is like that thick up to 2012 and then it stops it's gone because i don't want to go to these people but i went back and i thought oh i'll just i'll take that appointment just to show him what i've done because i'm jumping around i'm absolutely fine you know and um i went i went back and i was sitting in a waiting room among all these very overweight people with their joints bandaged up they were on crutches they were eating chocolate bars and biscuits out of their handbags and whatever you know they're in a terrible state i was the only one in the waiting room who could actually get up and sort of run around and i went into the office and i showed him i said check out what i've done do you want to know how i've done this and he goes you should be taking methotrexate and i said why and i mean well because it's just even if you've done that it's next it's going to go to your heart and your lungs and that'll kill you and then you've got risk of of um malignancies and then and i was like what and then and then he got so angry with me because i wouldn't take the methotrexate he was actually foaming at the corner of the mouth and i said to him you know if that happens it can be a sign of heart disease you know and he went absolutely and i just had to i ran out of there and i've never been able to so i've been i've been really wary of docs but there was one point my mom a couple of years before we noticed the cancer um she had tremendous reflux and she had all sorts of gastro issues reflux she was you know she the food would just sort of come up as soon as she'd eaten it and she was in a terrible way and so i said well we better check if this is nothing horrendous you know and so i thought she would she's not going to put up with a camera so she did this barium swallow thing you know and they said as they always do oh you've got hiatus attorney i mean they told me that years ago i never had any trouble with it since i cut all the plants but and they said yeah you've got high attorney blah blah and so we went to the gastroenterologist and i'd heard about this guy he was a real sort of well-known high up gastroenterologist around here renowned for being really sort of outspoken and strict and whatever i thought i'm gonna have trouble with this dude and and i went in there with my mum and you know however old your kid is however much they they know they're still idiots you know if they're your kids so i was sitting there and um i said to him look you know um what what what is your view of it you know and i i was um um i was saying look i i've reversed my rheumatoid arthritis i've seen a lot of these gut issues go we're taking out all the plants taking out the fiber getting on bone broths and fatty meat and that kind of thing and he was looking at me i couldn't really tell what he was thinking i thought he's going to have a go at me in a minute they always do and my mum sort of interrupted me and said look so what are you going to do for me because obviously the stuff i was saying was an idiot and he just he just turned to my mum and said if you do everything your son said you won't need me at all and my jaw hit the floor heard your hair and it was like that's why she trusted me i think with the with when she got the breast cancer because she thought well okay it fixed that and that doc said so because you guys are held up as absolute gods aren't you and i mean some of the guys out there so putting out such misinformation how do you find it is with your with your colleagues there particularly i mean you're in surgery right but if you run into um in into dietitians and things like that who are quite often the fattest people in the hospital how what sort of reaction you're getting do you keep it quiet or do you talk to them about it what what are you getting in in your where you were uh is pretty well known uh you know how i think you believe and you know i think it helps because i you know i am in good shape and i played you know professional sports and so forth so uh even though i don't always get the chance to work out i still because of my diet maintain that physique and so it's it's quite hard to argue when i'm i'm you know hands down you know the person who's in the best shape in the entire hospital and no one denies that or or can even claim otherwise even though i work out less than all of them and that's that's the part that really blows their mind they're just like oh yeah you work out twice i was like i haven't been in the gym in three months okay yeah sure yeah you know work out a lot like literally not never and so um it's um you know i i've i've been been questioned on this and challenged on this so many times especially a few years ago four or five years ago when just really no one was talking about this you know dr baker was sort of the first that started coming out really sort of mainstream there were there were definitely people around especially in ketogenic sort of communities talking about this and the benefits of it but it was very early on and so when i was talking to people about that they really hadn't even heard of it and they were just blown away and so i had to explain this a lot to people i had to defend my ideas to a lot of people i had a lot of people that were challenging me um you know because they were plant-based and so forth and that was you know friends of mine who were dietitians friends of mine who were getting their phd and and nutrition and so forth and we're all plant-based and and so we just you know just discussed it and challenged him when toe for toe um you know you know study for study argument for argument and so forth and and i ended up bringing all these people around one of my you know my friends that was uh finishing her phd in in nutrition you know when i finally got her to the point where she just like had this sort of stunned look and everything's just sort of sinking in and she just said my entire education was a lie and you know and she's like and it is it was a lie it had to be like you you've shown me that you've shown me the evidence you show me the studies and they're they're right um now i'm pretty well well-versed in my in my arguments so i can i can generally uh you know defend defend my position quite well and so if somebody's willing to take the time and listen and discuss and ask real questions and not just say oh you're wrong because you know i feel better on a vegan diet um there's usually usually good engagement on that now that said i am in a hospital and this is in the public system and so forth so i'm not i'm not at the liberty of of saying all my views to to my patients at all times um that i would like in a private in my private practice when i see you see patients for you know functional medicine and preventative medicine consults and so forth um so i i do i you know when someone asks me like well what else can i do is there anything else i can do to help with my condition i'm in neurosurgery so these people are very very unwell a lot of these people are getting you know you know brain tumors and so forth like is there anything i can do and i i don't feel that it's ethical to just mum up when i actually know for a cold frozen fact there's quite a lot that they can do to help themselves even if it doesn't reverse their cancer it will it will improve their health and will improve their body's ability to maintain their health and maintain uh their fight against the cancer with traditional methods as well and so i don't feel that it's ethical for me not to say something and so and so i do but i'm careful about it and i just say look this is this is my opinion this is not the department this is not the hospital certainly and whatever i tell you i'm going to give you resources i'm going to give you studies and you look it up and you decide for yourself i'm not telling you what to do um and that's and that's been okay so far there was one time um when i was when i was first here and and i just got asked by a patient who had crohn's disease and they were talking about you know the general surgeons um were asked to to talk to her about no she was under gastroenterology and and they wanted her to get surgery and they were like well you know medical treatments have failed and she's in a lot of pain she's having these problems and we think she needs surgery and i remember she asked me you know is there anything else i can do because i really don't want surgery you know and i was like well yeah actually you know and i told her about the elemental diet and i told her about you know and then there's uh studies with the fasting mimicking diet which is fasting mimicking you know just basically putting on a ketogenic diet not even basically it is putting you on a ketogenic diet and and this has better efficacy than steroids than these medications which are very expensive and very hard on your system as you well know these god methotrexate is just nasty bastard you know a guy's talking about like oh you're gonna get you know cancer and so forth if you if you don't take methotrexate it's like dude you're gonna get cancer if you do take methotrexate and so these are these very harsh medications and very expensive and so it's just like look here are these studies like you don't have to take my word for it um don't take my word for it here are these studies here here are these resources you take a look and you decide for yourself and and you know if you want to try these sorts of things out and that helps you that's great surgery is always an option you know you're not going to lose your spot you're not going to you know you'll be like no no you had your chance um some little bastard overheard me and like reported me to uh you know like the head of gastroenterology and um and this little smarmy bastard um you know rattling on me i don't even know what they told told them but i told them enough to get this this uh her consultant all pissed off at me and basically he was talking to um you know my boss and saying well we're just gonna report this guy to the medical board and they were just like whoa why don't we just you know talk to him first you know and just say like hey you know you know we'd prefer it if you didn't didn't say that to our patients which is fine it's your patient but like i'm not gonna i'm not going to lie to someone's face and say no there's absolutely nothing else you can do i'm going to say here here's the research you'd do it um and so you know it was um it you know it was i got into a bit of a of a pissy mood as well and so this is this is why i actually looked up tons of these studies that i knew about about some of them obviously knew about salisbury and so forth and um but i just i just really started digging into this and because i was like this guy reports me i'm gonna pour his ass you know because this guy's this guy's a consultant and he doesn't even know uh all these studies they're in his damn field this is even my field i've had nothing to do with this you know this and and this [ __ ] knows less than me and he's also putting more pressure on the public system trying to get the public system to you know do a forty thousand dollar surgery that doesn't need to happen you know and you don't all these medications all these surgeries all sorts of things so this guy is you know has a fiducial responsibility and he's not meeting that he is you know wasting you know taxpayer dollars and he's harming patients this is malpractice this is malfeasance and i had this whole argument i was just going to absolutely go for this guy's throat if he tried anything um but you know he didn't in the end but um you know that's that's sometimes how i have to live my life is like is uh you know i have to i have to know my [ __ ] because you know this isn't the mainstream this isn't the you know the the accepted dogma or narrative so i need to i need to be on my toes and you know i i think it's fair too because you know when you when you're challenging the mainstream narrative you know the burden of proof is on you and so i understand that burden of proof is on me and i'm happy to meet it you know and you know but if you try to you know sort of go after me you know i'm going to defend myself as well so i've had to do that i've had to uh know how to do that and i've had i've had to be very well versed in the literature in order to be able to protect myself as well but most of the time it's very amicable most of the time people actually quite interested because you know i am in good shape and you know i look like i'm in good shape and so i'm doing this and people get interested and in fact you know when i'm around people a lot they they always end up at least eating more meat and and starting eating the fat on the meat and a lot of them have actually gone full carnivore like my my friend uh you know the the former vegan but actually several people uh in my department went v it went to um carnivore as well not everyone stayed on it uh but they they've all started eating a lot more meat as well so mostly it's it's very favorable but you do sort of get some people going like what is this about and so you have to you have to be able to back it up which you know i'm happy to do so do you think do you think people look at gregor and say you know i really would love to look like that and they get that confidence from him my god if only you know oh you could and um buddy isn't it i thought when you first put up that pic of you next to him i thought that's a bit unfair you know because absolutely obviously in his early 30s you know well it wasn't unfair anyway you know put anyone up against uh gregory and then i saw your 42 or something and i thought that's that's pretty good man and then i look at i look at what gregor looks like and i'm i'm 10 years older than gregor you know and i i look at his hands that have got like parchment thin skin with with other spots on them you know and and he slurs his words and he can't really even sort of hold a serious conversation anymore are you there your screen is frozen i don't know if mine is as well yeah oh there you go what what happened there i don't know i was gonna try to message you there i don't know that was weird where did we where did we lose it where did you lose me and then i wasn't sure yeah you were saying about his parchment thin uh skin on his hands yeah he's just got that that really thin skin and and his um inability to string a sentence together and um you know he's slurring his words an awful lot and the the physique i mean i remember there was a picture of him sitting there next to a nine-year-old girl and her arms and his i saw that but i was like you know how's this guy i understand that he is he's uh you know alleged to be financed by some uh saudi billionaire and all of that but i'm amazed that people are still listening to him you know people just you say well just look at greg you know and there's all these i i do love the gregor memes you know they they're marvelous and you bang them up to a vegan and they just say oh well it's not fair because he doesn't train there you go come on you know well he does so like on all of his videos he's on like a treadmill like a walking treadmill like it has this air of conceit that is uh that i think is is the most uh obnoxious part of it he's like well yes you know we do i was just like don't talk like that like you know it's just so disingenuous and and um you know they say you know they say you'll never debate anyone money no god no no no absolutely not and um you know and and you people got i got i got as much um you know uh positive feedback as the negative feedback for that that post because there were a lot a lot of people loved it they're like yes you know screw that guy and uh and others like wow that's not fair this time yeah i'm like well i don't know i think it actually kind of is fair because he was 43 in that picture i was 42 in that picture he works out legitimately more than me now and i was fair i was like well and and to be fair i've i have a long history in being able to work out at to a high level and when i work out i'm definitely working out a hell of a lot harder and better than he is that's a given and so i'm going to get more more out of it than that but then he is but you know it was just really you know he looks malnourished and sick and 20 years older than i did at the same age and you know i'm not trying to be mean to the guy but this is he is a he is a public figure who espouses a vegan diet and and tries to promote it by you know you know showcasing his own good health that he thinks that he's in and so he's saying look how healthy i am i'm so great and hear all the positive things about you know my health and well-being and so well if you're going to do that you're opening yourself up for a comparison you just are and you know you then you have you know me who's the long-term carnivore long-term mediator and i i don't have those aging problems you know my um you know my girlfriend actually said she was looking at my hands she's like yo you have the hands of like a 20 year old you know just like the skin and so forth because that's the thing that you know that's one of the signs that's a very good marker of aging that's one of the things i've always found is that you look at someone's hands that's that's one of the first signs uh to go and that that starts aging even if their face and so forth is still pretty well kept together their hands seem to tell age quickly and and so and and you do notice that uh that people that are on a carnivore diet they age much more slowly or even like reverse aging my parents just aged backwards when when they went on this four years ago and and they you know they look great and they're doing great and people who go vegan aren't necessarily and you have these i was telling you exceptions yeah i was definitely older 10 years ago yeah when when uh i i think you're absolutely right you know to we we have to take the mickey out of these vegan dogs you know there's no need to be aggressive they get very aggressive towards us you know the vegans i get death threats on my youtube channel so it's better yeah i think you know i mean you should have your kids taken away for abuse you know all of that and so i put this video up with with these two you know a couple of years ago and they were eating just sitting there eating meat and talking about being carnival and um i called it vegan uh carnivore kids dying of malnutrition and uh yeah the vegans loved that they started sharing it they were tweeting it all over the place and then they realized what it was about you could see these tweets coming down and these shares you know yeah as they realized it wasn't to do with that at all but that's great yeah and then they just shared it without even without even looking at the data yeah yeah yeah they thought that was you know but i i think um i think it's real fair game to go for these people i don't think it's fair game to go for the people who've been fooled into it no no people need some serious help and they need some you know some of the people who've threatened me have come to me a couple of years later when they go right my thyroid's blown up my knees don't work my ass has exploded you know something's happened yeah and they say you were right and then we become friends you know so whatever aggression i get i don't give it back peter come here come here all right i'll make an appointment um yeah so so i think it's important to show up these docs because you know i love these memes where you've got the carnival ducks on one side and you've got the vegan dogs on the other it's just so obvious isn't it and then of course they will always put up oh but look at this vegan bodybuilder and you go now he built that on meat and then he went vegan for a year and then his performance tanked and he didn't tell you when he stopped being vegan you know yeah yeah absolutely but i mean this this little chap right peter if nobody's met him is not familiar with my channel but he's um he's sort of he's sort of a mini you with his top off and he's just like you know the the muscle he's got and and he's so solid and heavy he's got no fat on him but you pick one of his friends up who's sort of fatter and they're like they're really light they're all full of cocoa pops and pizza he's just he must have the most amazing bone density and muscle because he weighs a ton and yet he's got actually eat a bit of chocolate and he always wins for that but basically when he eats a meal it's meat and that's it nice and listen i want to call you up about this peter because when you've come on this come on before and i've said see he's never eaten any vegetables you go yes i have he's never had any broccoli where have you had broccoli now i'm putting you on the spot like three years ago where did you have it because i never it at home in this house well who said that to you you wouldn't even recognize it as a food item you wouldn't eat it did you actually eat it yeah did you what did you think do you really crave it now do you think i want broccoli every day no yeah cool so say talk about kids for a sec you know i mean we've been on for just over an hour and a half now i have to wind it up soon i guess i'll be respectful of your time but you know a lot of people say oh but what do you feed your kids i sure are they're human beings or what do you think yeah yeah it's it's always it's always the same is this is this like oh it's good for guys but you know i don't want to you know what about women is this good for women too it's just like yes why wouldn't it be and well i don't want to get all big and muscular like you like well you're not because you're not me and so you're you and so your body will optimize for you and so you know if you eat meat you eat in in the way that your species evolved to eat and that you're biologically designed to eat you'll be the healthiest version of yourself that you can be genetically and if you eat anything else it will detract from that you know even if you're eating you know you know low-fat chicken breasts that's less nutritious than a fatty steak it just is and so you're going to lose out on that and then if you go to something that's a negative like broccoli you're really losing out so you know i i've so many people just so wrapped up in all of the old uh you know sayings and so forth that uh you know like everyone uh everyone is different everyone has a different diet everything's different for different people well you know there's some people that are more resistant to species inappropriate food but no one has a different optimal diet and and i get people you know you know know-it-alls and things like that um they're just like oh well yeah sure blah blah blah and i just i just asked him very very simple question okay well then you provide me an example of one example of two members of the same species who have a different optimal diet just one in the entire animal kingdom just one no one can do it because it doesn't exist and so you know when they say well what about you know kids and so forth okay what what do you what do baby lions eat milk okay what do they eat after that same thing that adult lions eat fine what what about for females what does the female lion eat same thing that a male lion needs what about a female cow female giraffe female gorilla female dolphin they're you're the same species you're going to eat different amounts it's going to do slightly different things to your body based on your genetics and your and your you know hormonal system based on on what you are but you know that's still the optimal diet that's still optimal for you it's the most important for kids because you only get one chance to develop and then that's it you grow into what you can and then it solidifies and you try to maintain and be as healthy as you can uh in that in that vessel but you're not going to grow anymore your brain is not going to grow anymore it can it can develop and it can become sharper and so forth and you can become more athletic or or or you know more pain and so forth you can change a lot once you in your in your adult form however you're never going to grow more you're never going to develop more you're never going to uh get longer bones bigger brain bigger jaw you know you either have have eaten the requisite nutrients to grow a jaw that can fit your wisdom teeth or you haven't and and that's it and once your wisdom teeth are out they're out they're not gonna you know you go back and start eating enough you know vitamin k2 and so forth it's too late your jaw is what it is and so for kids it's it's the most important for them to get just fatty meat and and nothing else now maybe your your kids can be really healthy i mean you know we all grew up in the time of of omnivory where we were eating meat and plants and all that sort of crap and being told that vegetables were good for us and and fighting that with with all we had at least i did um but you know we we grew up fine but we did not develop to our genetic potential none of us did because our our mothers weren't carnivore when they were gestating and you know uh they weren't carnivore when they were breastfeeding and we weren't pure carnivores when we were growing up and so we did not develop torah genetic potential you look at the average population size of the average height of the adult male in populations all around the world that denotes the average health of that civilization and so you look back at these prehistoric um you know homo sapiens and and so forth the areas that had you know you know through the fossil record was clear that they had a lot of access to a bunch of mammoths and so forth and they just had an abundance of energy at all times available to them they were on average six foot four on average i'm six foot three so i'm below average for for an actual human so you know for my genetics and you know maybe i would be taller because my my father was very tall his uh father and and their brothers were all like six foot nine six ten you know just monsters 100 years ago these people were born and you know and they were way the hell taller than anybody else around and so you know if i had actually developed my genetic potential i'd be a freaking monster and i'm pissed i'm pissed that i'm not i should be another six inches taller and another you know 50 pounds heavier of muscle just be just a great beast what's that sorry you agree debugger i know yeah but i i want it you know i was like i feel it's mine it's mine by rights you know it's that i should have had that and um you know so that's the thing that's the difference you know um just a just a you know n equals one sort of sample like my younger brother was a very picky eater and he just wanted to eat white rice with tempura sauce and he just like and i remember talking my mom was like mom you know you need to get him to eat good things well i can't he has to eat something i have to get him eat something he won't eat anything else except this i'm like no he doesn't have to just eat anything if he's going to eat crap that's not good for him he needs to he needs to eat good food if you well but he's not going to eat well then don't feed him you know like he'll come around like he doesn't want to just die you know like he gets hungry he'll eat you know the proper food but you know she she gave into his you know terrorist tactics and um and so he just ate that it is difficult it is difficult when kids because my my daughter's 13 she's at that sort of age where she can go get stuff on her own you know and this is so hyper palatable and so addictive you know she knows everything about how you know the mixture of carbs and fats never happens in nature and that stuff you just can't stop eating and all that so but it's still addictive and at that age you're you're immortal aren't you but it is interesting to see that you know she's put on a bit of fat since she started eating that um you know in the last couple of years and she's aware of that she's cool you know if i cook for her it's always me i won't do anything else but she gets her own stuff but what is interesting is is between the two of them like uh my mrs was pregnant with her when she was vegetarian and then when she saw me heal after that she she got out of that went carnival when she was pregnant with peter who you just met nice and his jaw is his jaw is definitely wider than hers you can see the differences in the facial structure you know yeah so that's like an n equals one in the family all of course just useless anecdotes yeah of course if it's you it's your actual life and your child you know it's not it's not all that useless yeah yeah so one thing before we wrap up what what do you think about um you know we're finding an awful lot of stuff um the other sort of disconnects the other sort of ancestral disconnects and we're finding huge results with people when they put everything together you know they get a light right they get some grounding together they get some sun they get rid of the wi-fi at night things like that just all the sort of ancestral disconnects i think most of the of the um uh sort of misconceptions are around diet and so my friend dr jack cruz you know he's always saying to me will you stop being a diet guru and start being a light guru you know start talking about life they go yeah fine and we do but there's most of the misconceptions around that i mean some vegan comes to you and you say hey listen you know if you turn your wi-fi off at night you might get rid of some of that effects maybe don't watch the tv too late without some blue blockers get up in the morning get some sun in your eyes that's fantastic annie eat some steak [ __ ] off yeah yeah they won't listen right so um that's that's why i talk about that but how important do you think it is for to be looking at all these other things and do you address it the thing is it's often so tempting when someone goes on a carnival diet they get such great results but then if you add the other stuff it seems to kind of put the edge on it too well i think i think you're right you know the closer that we get to our uh you know our genetic heritage you know the better the better we're going to be and you know we were designed to live in in a certain certain environment and when we go outside of that environment we're going to run into some trouble you know we're basically the same genetically as we have been for 300 000 years and yet we live in on a different planet basically and we were not designed for these sorts of things and so you're going to get a lot of turmoil um it's not something that i've i've looked into as much and you know really dug into but i certainly recognize it as just as important because this is this is part and parcel of of our native environment obviously food is a big part of that because that's literally what we're made of and we're recreating ourselves on a daily basis with that but everything else is is absolutely an integral part of that i certainly notice you know uh when i go out camping i get away from all technology and so forth and i'm you know i just naturally like when it gets dark i'm just i'm going to sleep and i wake up as soon as it's light and i just feel so much better for that and i i um i know so many people when they the more they get out in nature the more they want to be out in nature and so you know they they get out and they experience that and they start living the way that we were biologically programmed to live and they're like this feels right this is really good and they get so many unexplainable benefits to their their health and their mental mental state especially even when they're not doing carnivores this is something that's you know very common in in society at large is you know getting back in touch with nature and so forth it's really uh you know healing in a lot of ways and i think that now that people are more you know sensitive to the fact that they're that our environment makes such a big difference you know the food that we eat and so forth and we've just been sort of fed a bunch of crap for so long people i think are starting to pay attention to that and say like okay how can we how can we again like like you say fine-tune these things to get even better i think that's absolutely the way to go i i think that um that's something that that's you know i need to pay a little more attention to but i do the same things like i try to avoid screens i try to avoid lights uh towards the end of the day you know i try to get up you know in the morning with the sun my schedule is a bit screwed so you know i'm doing like 130 135 hours a week sometimes when i'm on call and it's very busy so you know i could just be working you know 36 hours straight sometimes you know 60 hours straight with maybe an hour of sleep you know catching an hour of sleep you know a night for 64 hours and and just absolutely blown um it's hard it's hard to keep a natural rhythm like it it just shows the benefits of the carnivore diet to make you that resilient still in such good shape while you're doing that that's that's amazing now i would i wouldn't really be able to do this as uh as well as i am you know if it wasn't for that you know a lot of my colleagues it's hard on it it's definitely hard on me it's very it's very difficult when you get those crazy calls you know on call is not always like that but you know you hit runs where you're just working the whole weekend and then you're working the monday because you can't go home post call and and it's a rough weekend and you're just just go go go go the entire weekend maybe get an hour sleep saturday night maybe get two on sunday and then you know and then you're working for 14 hours on your normal day and then you have to go to work in the morning you know so it's like you know it's it's uh and it can be very draining and even even if you're getting eight hours of sleep after that you still feel like crap because your body needs about 16 to recover from all that um if i wasn't eating like this that would not be very uh you know possible and i don't envy that i mean i i i have to have a kip in the afternoon a little nap when i have a late gig you know just to make sure the body shop body clock is is resetting you know but anthony listen thank you so much man i'm gonna i'm gonna wrap it up now just because i could go on forever but i'll keep it under two hours then if i do get it on youtube then it can go over to my other channels as well and i'd love it i'll also really love to get you if you if you'd be willing to come onto one of our red pill discussions and have a chat with you guys about about the ins and outs of the of the the medical corruption because this is interruption in medicine and in diet is amazing and we can keep you in the past about it so that you don't get in trouble with you with your colleague man you've been amazing thank you so much and and please listen tell everybody where where where they can get uh in touch with you and see your stuff because please go and have a look at anthony's stuff it's brilliant it's got great little shorts on on youtube and stuff that you can just send to people when they don't have much attention span and and and go and check him out he's he's fantastic great info well presented so let everybody know where you can be found uh yeah well thank you very much first of all um uh yeah so i have a youtube channel that's just called uh anthony chafee md so chaffey spelled uh cha double f double e uh that's also the name of my instagram account so just anthony chafee md and i do a lot of posts there obviously post when i'm posting putting something up on my my uh youtube channel or my podcast um but i also do a lot of posts where i i just do a short sort of dialogue almost like a little blog post on just different sorts of things that that i think that are you know people can find helpful in little things on cholesterol things on you know fat and fat adaption and and different sorts of things that that people ask me about and i actually find that people ask me about different questions and i give them a long answer and i go like well actually that'd be something useful for everyone to go on and i post that and so um there's a lot of different things that people can find there and different resources that hopefully people find helpful and they seem to have so far and then i have a podcast that i just sort of started a couple months ago called the plant free md and that's on spotify it's going to be on google and apple i'm just waiting for approval to come through but uh yeah so i have to have that podcast in the youtube channel and i post most of my stuff there and then everything sort of coordinated through instagram excellent and if you ever fancy a chat on that about the sort of ins and outs of what it's like to go through autoimmunity keep me in mind yeah absolutely i would love to no it would be great to have you on no that would be absolutely awesome i'd love to anyway thank you so much so um thanks everybody for getting this far i'm sure it wasn't difficult to get this far with the amazing stuff that anthony's come out with and see you next time so see you soon anthony have a good one