Dr. Anthony Chaffee On The ROADSHOW Podcast | FULL EPISODE!

[Music] Welcome to The Road Show podcast ladies and gentlemen welcome to the road show we are here today with Dr Anthony chaffy carnivore entrepreneur how we doing doing well my friend how are you going very very well I actually have um a little bit of a backstory on to why I wanted to talk to you as well um so January comes around this year and I know is Joe Rogan's doing the the carnival month yeah and I was like okay I've got to do something and I'm like up until January uh well let's say February I was a freak in the gym like let's go every day let's get it done lift heavy started the carnival diet gains go through the roof mhm I was like whoa what's Happening Here ni irregular bow movements go through the roof of the first two it was explosive and dude it was bad it was really bad um and then my body kind of regulated towards the whole um uh the diet itself and it stabilized and I felt like I didn't have a lot of ups and downs I kind of just had a lot of uh like Smooth energy mhm like I wasn't having like I stopped coffee and everything it was it was really really good good when I did have any kind of like slight variations on meals like when I would add butter and stuff like that I did have like a a bit of a weird time but at the end of the diet I don't think I came out of it correctly cuz I was I'm just a glutton man I'm the biggest Glutton you'll ever meet so I was eating like noodles and everything like the first day out of it and my body rejected me so much that I got a diagnosis of Crohn's disease from it wow an ulcerative colitis wow yeah yeah that's pretty intense uh but during during that month you felt good though from the sounds amazing amazing lovely so you know I mean that that's sort of the the primer for people to say okay well maybe this is this is something that's good for me maybe I can I should just keep doing this to make this sort of a way of life that's what I did um one of the things that you can find is just like if you you know if you drink regularly you can you can down half a bottle of scotch or something like that no problem but then you don't drink for a month or two and all of a sudden that you you get halfway through that half bottle and and you're on the floor puking right yeah so you know we build up yeah we build up tolerances to things and and there you know besides alcohol as well so there are other things in in you know the different things that we eat they can actually have a negative or even Toxic effect to us and we build up we build up resistances to them and so when we're just in that fighting form and we're just constantly battling this this garbage that we're doing that we're putting in our body you know we do have some more defenses against that so then when you go away from that people do find that they're more s sensitive when those things slip back in because they they don't have that defense mechanism they don't have the tolerance that they used to have and so you can actually get hit harder but you know seemingly especially because you know you now you have the contrast right you felt so good during that month so you felt better than you normally do you probably a lot better than you normally do most people do I certainly did and then all of a sudden you add all that stuff back in you go full hog you know just pasta and noodles and rice and all that sort of stuff and all of a sudden you it really really hits you a lot harder and you see that contrast quite significantly and so it's going to hit you a little harder probably a lot harder because you don't have the tolerance that you did before and you see the contrast so it probably would have knocked you back lower than you where you you started at the beginning of January when eating sort of you know the normal stuff that you were eating um it probably got you lower than that but if you if you ate all that crap and you went lower than you were like in December probably would be like oh yeah I don't really feel that great but in that's in relation to how you normally feel because you normally didn't feel all that great as compared to where you felt when you were on a full carnivore diet because that's how you could you should feel all the time because that's how our bodies are naturally designed to work that's biologically what we're designed to eat and so we're not putting in a bunch of toxins and problems in our body that's going to disrupt our normal physiology they call that hesis right the the state of um uh like if you're having a regular um variable diet of plants and vegetables you're getting a bunch of like hormetic responses from different plants right that's that's that's the cop out of the day by the vegan Community okay so like when I when I first started talking about this I was talking just pointing out that that plants use defense chemicals to protect themselves and that's what they do it's a biological fact H you can read that in any botney book right I'm pretty sure Paul saladino spits that fact a lot he does yeah and and you know he wrote a book on it and talked a lot about this stuff this this is a hard fact in a hard science of biology botany right you just look this up and so a lot oh they don't have well what how can you say that well that's just their own you know them just not knowing that they haven't studied that and they think it sounds farfetch but it but it's not it's actually a hard fact you can look this up in textbooks and you can think about it conceptually right we we get lost in the woods and you run out of food you can't just eat any random plant right most of them will make you very sick or even kill you and that's why and and that's why we call most plants on Earth inedible right so it's edible inedible why is it inedible well because it has poisons it has poisons that will kill you well you know people that smoke and drink well they don't die that day well obviously smoking and drinking but well that's not poison then right but that's the same argument they make about spinach right they say well spinach I had a spinach Sal the other day I didn't die like yeah right right but you didn't die when you smoked a pack of cigarettes either you didn't die when you had a bottle of whiskey either but over the years this will build up and build up the harm and the damage to your body and we can deal with some of it right but we're eating more and more and more of this stuff especially because people are saying you need to go plant-based and so we're we're inundating ourselves with even more and our bodies aren't aren't being able to handle it very well um oxalates are a good example of this we don't can't really clear these things we we have a number of different ways uh you know that that people when they've been poor and they haven't been able to access meat as much as as like the the more wealthy classes they have figured out ways of using plants and detoxifying them a bit more making them more bioavailable in their nutrient Supply and um but not all things can be detoxified so like oxalates you can't really cook them out you can't really detoxify these things what is an oxalate oxalate is a uh is a defense chemical this is a defense that plants use to to stop animals and insects from eating them and or even from pathogens and fungus and things like that that would be invasive and try to eat the plant and so they they release these oxalates that are that are tox to other forms of life that that are trying to eat them so this can make oxalic acid some people have heard of that I have yes so that you eat oxalate that can actually turn into oxalic acid in your in your bloodstream yeah can and it's also it can it can keate different uh minerals right so that so it binds to them basically irreversibly we can't really break that Bond so it will bind magnesium calcium things like that strip that out of your system and so that actually strip out of your bones because you have to to keep a a level of calcium certain level of calcium in your serum and so your oxalates are stripping those out stripping those out stripping those out and then you have to pull from your bones which is a you know huge store of calcium in your body in order to replace and and maintain your serum so you can get Osteo osteopenic osteop pric but that's decades down the line right so this is causing harm the whole time SE what about 75% of kidney stones are calcium oxalate stones and they oh it's because tooo much calcium no it's too much oxalates right oh [ __ ] yeah so you know we make some oxalates is sort of a breakdown product of different things but I mean it's like like 2 milligrams or something like that from breakdown of protein amino acids and collagen and things like that vitamin C people who take an abundance of vitamin C that can actually turn into oxalates as well uh but then the majority of what we get this stuff is in the plants that we eat because this is just a natural defense of the plant So like um it's and we've known about the toxicity of oxalates in the medical literature for literally hundreds of years and and and you're going into the the 1990s and 2000s there have been peer-reviewed publications of people going like hey we are not paying attention to oxalates as much as we should this stuff is toxic we really need to be aware of this you we're calling things you know gout and things like that mean like in in the 1990s you know the um uh head of I believe it was the head of the Journal of American Medical Association you know Publishers own paper saying hey we're we're talking about gout as only being these uric acid Crystal because that's not gout gout is actually has five different kinds of crystals that can form in your in your joints one of them being oxalate crystals and so you can have oxalate toxicity that forms into Gap but we just go oh gout gout gout and then we call it pseudo gout just anything that's not uric acid oh it has to be pseudo gout so they sort of changed the names on that but that was something that that has been well described well documented going back literally centuries and even to the point that we know how much is basically too much so if you get above 150 to 200 milligrams a day that's sort of too much that's that's overloading your system you're not really able to clear it that well is that from the actual plant material itself so 150 200 milligrams of plant material or is that for the actual inest ingesting the oxalates oxalates themselves yeah exactly so how much do they like normally take up in plant material yeah so it's it's different yeah so you know some some plants are go quite low in oxalates you some don't not not all plants use oxalates but most have like a little bit and some just have a small amount is that like polyphenols and stuff like is that what oxalates come from so o oxalates are their own they they're own complete different chemical yeah and yeah exactly and there's different kinds of oxalates but like the you know they they're um uh they're its own class okay yeah and so um but there are certain things that have very high oxalates so like sweet potato I think like a what is it like a cup of sweet potato has you know a couple hundred milligrams um wow spinach a cup of spinach has about 600 milligrams right so this is why like uh Liam Hemsworth put himself in the hospital with three weeks of green smoothies spinach smoothies just every morning and you just Town these things down he gave himself a massive massive kidney stone and obstruction he had to get surgery to get this this removed and so he' been I think based for a while at that point but then there's a certain period that he really ramped it up and so there's that that the idea in the oxalate coming from the oxalate researchers that do a lot research in this and I'm just repeating their work is that you have this sort of background level of inundation you're just sort of giving yourself just a bit more than your body can really handle or maybe a lot more than your body can handle and then all of a sudden you'll have a bam a big burst of something like 3 weeks of just you know 3,000 o milligram oxalates a day in your in your smoothies and it just be okay that's too much and you get overloaded you get this toxicity but it can cause uh deposition of these oxalate crystals in your body in your tissue and even in your brain and you can get uh all sorts of different neurological issues because of that and yeah and it can deposit in different tissues as well and then your body seems to try to sequester this if it can't clear it out through your kidneys it can you start Dam damaging your kidneys but it can start uh sequestering this in cells in your tissue to try to just get it out of your system and so it actually forms like actual crystals and your body has to has to attack these things and break them down and they can start forming these uh sort of in almost like they would with an infection or or a a foreign body or something like that and like it called a granuloma so they would just have this body of of uh defense cells sort of wrapped around this trying to keep that away from the body and so you know even years after you stop eating oxalates you can get these things dripping into your system and and things like that so it has a longterm effect and so yeah it's it's uh it's pretty surprising but you know there are there are these things and and there's about plants make about a million different chemicals most of those are to defend themselves against attack we talking One Singular plant or all them that's a [ __ ] T no but each individual plant can you know easily do over 100,000 yeah you know wow I mean coffee has 150,000 different chemicals in it is that a little kick well it's just it's just something you know just to just something I happen happen to know about so you know it just has has all these things we worry about caffeine but it has thousands of other things that could potentially be of an issue and so you know it's just something it's just something to think about and so I you know I was trying to say this and make this point that this is how plants defend themselves and you know historically humans really avoided plants unless we had to eat them we would eat meat you know we were hunters for 3 million years and then the last 20,000 years after the megafon died off we had to go to more Hunter Gathering sort of things because we couldn't get like all the big yeah we couldn't get the big big game animals that we were used to um especially here in Australia we have [ __ ] all game yeah like none we got scrub balls up north and I'm pretty sure they're on the endanger list and you can't touch them anyway yeah it's not good yeah and you know and so if you just here in Australia if you look at the records from the early explorers the European explorers they came here like in the 1600s 1700s and the missionaries that were here around the same time there I mean there's books written about this and i' I you know I've read them every time I come across one I always try to see if there's a chapter on the diet of the of the Native Aborigines and there generally is and they just marvel at the fact that they just eating meat they only eat meat and in different areas they were eating specific meat now they would say that they knew what plants to use medically and they might use things uh they knew which plants they could eat safely to survive if they couldn't get meat but all the accounts that I've seen were all very clear that they said when they had meat they ate meat they didn't e anything else and in some areas like in Tasmania they were actually even more specific they only ate mollusks and so they would go diving for Abalone and things like that who I didn't know that yeah and the uh and the the European um you know Sailors they were like say we even offered them like normal like you know swimming fish and they were like yeah no no thanks we don't want it now we don't want anything to moves yeah well and and they sort of speculated is this because they didn't didn't want any of it or maybe they were just mistrustful of taking food from a stranger sort of thing you know but either way what they noticed was that they were just eating mollusks they were just eating the Abalone and things like that and they're quite specific for it right yeah so going back on the whole Ox oxalates um Theory well it's not a theory anymore I guess it's fact yeah um how can people two questions can you get rid of them through diet within the body and how long would that take if that is a an like a a strategy yeah yeah it's uh it's really the only way to get rid of it is with diet you just you just have to start limiting or reducing the amount of oxalates you're eating now I I don't eat any oxalates because of the way I eat I only eat meat but you know that's uh not necessarily something that everybody wants to do um and so yes but you do need to reduce the amount of oxalates that you're eating you know try to bring that down below 200 Mig a day then your body can start healing its tissue stop uh having to clear so much out of your kidneys that it's actually physically damaging your kidneys and then it can start at that point sort heal it and then you you uh can reduce it down from there and then you'll start actually clearing it from your tissue so there's a lady Sally Norton who wrote literally the book on oxalates uh just came about last year and uh it's called toxic superfoods like all these superfoods that we talk about love that book yeah so it's just Just sh like hey these Super Foods we call them superfoods they're actually toxic and it's like oxalates are actually and she she put forward so much data in research I mean literally hundreds and hundreds of references I think I over over 6 or 800 references to different studies and things like that and so it's um you know and she goes through that and she actually has a protocol in her book on on how to sort of do this safely and um because if you if you go down to like no oxalates right away your body will say okay great we're going to start getting rid of these oxalates they start sort of getting it out of your tissue and you start clearing it out of your kidneys but that can actually be too hard on your kidneys if you've battered your kidneys for years and years and years with with all this oxalates and things like that you need a bit of time to heal and so uh what she recommends is sort of coming down gradually and sort of you know reducing reducing reducing in getting down to that point maybe half your oxalate uh consumption you know every week and then get down to that you know 100 to 200 you know milligram range do that for a while let your body heal in that range you're not going to be storing more oxalates but you're also not going to be dumping a lot of oxalates and so you can give your body a chance to heal yeah like an equilibrium kind of thing yeah exactly I like it and so you can heal at that point and then once your your kidneys are better and your bodies are your body's better in other ways then you can start reducing the oxalates down even more and then your body's going to start flooding these things out and it seems to happen in in weird patterns like sometimes your body will just dump out like a lot more oxalates at certain times it's hard to really tell um you know how it's going to hit people so there's this idea of oxalate dumping when people go into a very low oxalate diet or even like a just a full carnivore diet which is a zero oxalate diet that they can actually get worse oxalate symptoms they they'll notice like yeah actually I have these oxalate symptoms they go cornivore diet they feel amazing they feel better and then a few months into it they go like woo I'm getting all those oxalate symptoms again and that's you know because their body sort of dumping this stuff out now I haven't uh noticed that myself I I or in my patients I haven't a huge number of those I certainly have seen that in some people that you know a year or two down the line or even six months down the line they're doing great they're doing great and they're like wow I'm having these problems sometimes there's other other issues that we can sort of you know troubleshoot and they get back on track and everything's fine and other times we we do all the troubleshooting we take care of all the all the basics they're doing everything right everything's going great they're still having problem they go okay well we need to think about oxalates because oxalates can the the oxalate dumping oxalate toxicity can affect any organ in your body right and so it's it's very vague and so you know it's it's one of those things that I think that you sort of have to come to you you need to think about it needs to be on your on your differential but there obviously other things that can cause these things too so you knock those things out okay it's none of those things great let's think of oxalates and then you know what put I've put a couple people on that protocol uh that Sally Norton recommends and they got better you know um a lot of the other ones we troubleshot and it it was something else you know but that was in the back of my mind you know what if this is oxalates one thing that Sally said is that if someone's taking having like a high calcium diet um because calcium can actually help you get rid of oxalates because the oxalates bind to the calcium and strip that out so if you're taking in oxalate or sorry calcium supplements or um you know maybe having a lot of dairy or something like that other things that that contain a lot of a lot of calcium that that can actually cause more more oxalates to start coming out and shedding interesting CU combined to the calcium so you can digestively get rid of them through taking in more calcium but it would incur more issues it could yeah espe especially at the level of the kidney right because that's where you're going to excrete it from yes right and so she was saying that there was actually some people who years after they they went like on a carnivore diet you know they started they started like taking in calcium and all of a sudden bang they got kidneys they got these oxalate symptoms and they got these kidney stones and and calcium oxalate Stones yeah right and so that was but it um you know not everyone gets that but it's just something to think about that uh and she was saying uh because I actually actually spoke to her the other day about this but she was saying that um you know having having some calcium that can that can help draw this stuff out okay and so but you could come it can come at at a bit too fast you know and so you got to sort of see but come at some uh cost of feeling it coming coming out yeah but you know for some people but but not everybody not everybody's going to have like a detriment from that right yeah well that's kind of it's kind of interesting how the body can store something for so long and then react to it after the fact of the healing happening you know like you know what I'm saying it's you've stopped taking in um these oxalates mhm and then they stay dormant for a period of time until you add calcium MH and then they start reacting and that's just wild to me yeah well she she thinks that that might be why you know people that go into a cornivore diet from like a plant-based diet which is you know going to be very high oxalate diet that they have a bit of a delay maybe they don't have as big of symptoms because there's not a huge amount of calcium in meat you know if you're having Dairy and things like that then that's a different story but you know some people that that are just doing meat and water maybe they're not noticing things it could be years down the line and then they start start dumping a bit more and getting a bit more out especially if they start adding in calcium or taking a calcium supplement or something like that she said that she's she's seen that you know even years down down the line and then they you know can even even test and they have you know more oxalates in their urine and things like that it's very hard to test for oxalates um you know because they're just it's a bit unreliable and because it's not something that we've really thought of as as a as a main mainstream problem this is known about it's definitely known about in certain circles but it's not one of the you know the thing like the normal things that people would would think about and look for so we don't have you know very robust tests for it um I think it's probably more to do with the fact that you know we just people haven't necessarily thought it was as big of an issue as it is and so hopefully we'll get better testing for that but it is difficult to test for it and also it can be sequestered in different tissues and so it's just like what do you test and all that sort of stuff that's what I was going to say um I've had a uh micro biome test before you know when you send a stool sample for testing they test the microbiology of the stool and apparently in some Laboratories they can test for like illative Pathways and stuff is that real can they actually test for that stuff for like certain Pathways cuz like I went um and used viome have you heard of viome is that a is that like a probiotic sort of thing no a viome is a a testing facility okay um and they they take a stool sample and then they'll give you an a menu of what you can eat because of what you have in your microbiology that's reacting in certain ways and I was like yeah this sounds great the the um entrepreneur that like created the whole setup was very convincing in his argument but well he would be he's trying to sell you something he's trying to sell something for sure yeah so I mean the thing with a microbiome is you know the microbiome of a line doesn't dictate its meals right it's just like well excuse me Leo you know like you this this biome you actually should have like a coriander and chicken you know like it's just like well you know maybe maybe their their biology is set up the way it's set up and you know every single day that you eat if you eat something different you will have a different microbiome at the end of the day because bacteria is turnovers 20 minutes right and so it's it it they rely on what we send down the pipe right and so if you eat different things you'll have a different biome every day so whatever day you take that test you'll have you'll have a different result you know if you eat something you know curried chicken this day you send it in you're going to have a different result you have you know vegetarian meal that day you're going to have a different result you're just eating lean you know just uh just steaks with no no seasonings you're going to have a different result so you know the microbiome that they've tested in in you know carnivores and uh different people that only eat meat or animal products it's actually quite quite a good uh profile so you have uh you know all the different it's very very diverse you have all these different sorts of uh a lot of different bacteria you're not supposed to have an overgrowth of you know a few yeah and they seem to be the ones that are correlated with Better Health now is this because the bacteria themselves play a role in in contributing to our health or is it that what we're eating is has a direct effect on our health and that also has a direct effect on what bacteria are going to be living in our gut I think it's probably both um certainly whatever we eat plays a huge role in our health and it also dictates what microbiome we have yeah right but there have also been studies in mice where they had you know particular gut bacteria and there some bacteria they thought was associated with like obesity and so they put that in these like identical mice these lab mice that put the same exact genetics fed them the exact same things exact same conditions and exact same amounts and the one that had this weird little bacteria in it got fat as hell you know so like inter yeah very strange and very interesting so I think there is an impact that the microbiome has fascinating as well just one slight variation of bacteria yeah so just yeah just the microbiome they changed that and that microbiome seemed to change enough in how that animal processed this food that something very different happened and we do see associations with different bacteria and our microbiome and and certain diseases and generally those are the bacteria that are fed by fiber and carbs and things like that a lot of these ones that feed on fiber and carbs associated with a lot of different autoimmune diseases like multiple sclerosis and so people are saying hm you know is this is this something at that level I don't know but I do know that I have a lot of patients when they go on a carnivore diet or Elimination Diet and they they remove out everything except meat salt and water or even just meat and water that their autoimmune issues just go away MH and there's a lot of arguments for that as well such as the different toxins that are in Plants such as lectins lectins are a huge body of of molecules whole different class of molecules a whole bunch of different kinds of lectin they're actually lectin in meat as well but they don't seem to cause it harm but the lectin in Plants definitely do cause harm uh so this is like uh you know gluten right so that's a lectin and that can damage our gut in a nor a number of different ways uh rysen is also a lectin also a poison isn't it r it is the most poisonous thing that we know of yeah one microgram per kilogram of body weight can kill anybody Jesus and so yeah it's been used as a poison for for very long time and pretty sure that's how they got Kim Jong ill yeah well and and you know and and you get these like letters being posted to politicians and things like that and they have like rice and dust in them you know yeah we it's it's it's extraordinarily de eating that [ __ ] yeah yeah well lectin in general yeah and that's the thing too other beans so that so Rison comes from from Castor beans right and so other beans have a lot of lectin as well and this is this is this makes a bit of sense right because a bean is a seed and a seed is a plant's baby and every organism protects their babies more than anything oh wow right and so this is where you generally find the highest concentration of toxins and in fact it's in the casing of of the the cast Bean so that's the barrier of protection something's trying to eat in and get at that seed get at that baby it like you're going to die right so that's where like the the main defenses are and so these other lectin there's a lot of other lectin that exist in be as well why isn't placenta poisonous placenta you know what I'm saying uh well because the thing is it doesn't necessarily need to be right because you know animals are kinetic we can run away move around fight back uh or or hide and so we our flesh doesn't need to be poisonous I mean know some animals may have poison Sachs and things like that but that's a that's a specific organ that's sequestered away from the rest of the body that defense chemical is move the [ __ ] away from it yeah okay right yeah so so all living things have a defense right yeah all down a single cell organisms and while animals can run away or fight back plants can't so they have to protect themselves by other means and one of the main means they have is that chemical defense now they can be Woody and harsh and have spines and Thorns or be hard to access or they can hide their their nutrients in ways that aren't bioavailable to us like you know like what is what is wood that's that's sell this is fiber right and this is actually what they put in in processed foods to increase the the fiber content they just they put a sawdust that's the true story really yeah because it's that's that's fiber it's cellulose right and so they they put sawest in this filth and and because that's that's been classed as an essential nutrient now so fiber is a so-called essential nutrient you have and what essential nutrient means is if you do not eat it you will die you will die yeah right and so so yeah I mean you tell that to the Inuit right like there's no fiber to eat up there anyway no and so there not even a tree exactly hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option so I like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25% off total all right thanks guys and so you know that's the thing so what what is fiber what is cellulose it's strings of glucose right well you we use glucose that's great sugar we use that glycogen that strings of sugar as well glucose just glucose molecules right logen glucose oh course chains of glucose but but it's it's the animal storage molecule of glucose whereas cellulose is the plant storage molecule molecule of glucose and so the problem with the plant storage molecule of glucose is that no vertebrae animal can break that Bond those glucose molecules are just Bound in just a certain way that we don't have the enzymes to break that bond isn't that what the pancreas was for not the pancreas the appendix the app yes but the pendix is where it is in other primates that are actually herbivorous unlike ourselves like gorillas is that gorillas chimpanzees the the pendix is very long it's actually a seeum and so that's a that's a full large seeum it's like you know 4 feet long or so oh wow and that's where a lot of fiber will pack in and they'll cultivate certain bacteria that actually eat the fiber because they can't break down the fiber either the bacteria break it down bacteria eat it and then they produce as a result basically their waste their feces if you will is short chain fatty acids which are 100% saturated and that's what the gorilla absorbs so that's why they're huge that's why they Jack because they're and and then the bacteria die off and they absorb that as proteins right right so they're eating fiber which are strings of glucose but what they're absorbing is fat and protein right we can't do that right because we haven't eaten these things in millions and millions of years so our appendix is our secum is shriveled down little appendix we don't have that ability anymore and so we need to get fat and protein from something else fat and protein runs the animal kingdom really mostly fat because you know gorillas that just eat green leaves they get 70% of their calories from saturated fat from those short chain fatty acids cows get nearly 80% and primates the larger the brain of the primate the larger proportion of fat is in their diet so gorillas actually have the smallest brain in proportion to their body and they get 70% all other primates get more more of that than more of a higher percentage of fat uh in their diet as a calorie so is that kind of why um the whole fat free thing really ruined the IQ of society probably did yeah well it's not helping and I mean and and uh you know saying yeah don't eat fat things like that I mean when I was a kid was when things were first going oh oh don't eat fat don't eat fat don't eat fat but my parents were still well kids need to drink whole milk but we drank we drank uh skin milk M and and uh and that because not supposed to have fat but my mom would always say like well kids do need whole milk though because they need that fat to grow their brain well you know when you're five your brain's still growing you know so you probably probably still get the fat but you know there's a there's studies Down in Africa and India where they had you know controlled trials they had you know very impoverished kids that you know weren't getting all that much much food and certainly not a lot of animal protein and fat and it so it was a control trial right so they had they studied different kids in the same situation and um and so they gave randomly randomized control trial they gave some of these kids one egg a day one extra egg a day just one egg right and they follow these guys for over a year and they found that the ones who got the egg increased their IQ by 15 points on average what just one egg a day damn right so they they wanted to do that as a campaign to sort of impress upon the parents of these children because people would raise chickens to grow eggs so they could sell the eggs because they were desperate for money and they were like hey you know really hold back at least one egg a day you know this is really important to your kids development and so that was that was what that that was used for but I think it's very useful for everyone else to understand as well that's that's how vital and important animal nutrition is and animal Source nutrients and fat and protein are and and the bioavailability is all there like an egg is a perfect protein it has all the proteins that you need in the exact proportion that you need them and has all the fat and cholesterol that you need because it that's all the nutrients that you need to grow a new animal life right it's all right there all packaged and now people are saying well actually all those things are toxic and cancerous well then why doesn't that grow into a cancer cell instead of a chicken yeah right yeah what's the argument between raw egg and because I've I've heard it a bunch of times people that drink raw eggs and then cook eggs is there a difference between how you consume them yeah I mean there there's an argument for you know against you know drinking raw yolks you know because there there's some chemicals in there that seem to be act as a bit of aurn or defense um you know it's um like the rocky thing back in the day look you I've done that you know it's not that bad you know it's it's uh it's it's cold but if you if you break up the eggs and sort of whip them up yeah exactly it just tastes like it tastes like cold scrambled eggs okay so B it's not that bad you know you put it in a blender it's all like creamy not that bad you know and so um I don't have a problem with that some people have problems with that um people that have with autoimmune issues tend to have more of an issue with the egg whites and now is that because of the egg white itself or is that because that nearly all chickens uh you know egg laying chickens are fed corn and soy and crap like that which they are not designed to eat either and so they're not going to be as healthy as they can be and that egg is not going to be as healthy as it can be and there was a was a guy I saw he was a regenerative farmer Joon I can't remember his name but he was giving he was giving a um a talk at Hills Hillsdale College in in the US and he was talking about and he's not carnivore but he's just talking about the importance of raising things in a certain way and how this is actually better for the environment because you can you can grow healthier more nutritionally dense animals and plants in a smaller area if you do it right yeah right the movable cages and that yeah and and yeah so maybe you have like four pastures and you keep your cows and your sheep you know in this one and then after you know a couple days you move it to the next one the next one and the next one exactly and uh and then a couple days later you put the chickens in and there's all these feces all these flies and bugs going after the after the feces and then they go after eat all the bugs and you're upscaling that that that's um one of the methods of polyas farms that's what how they raise all their cattle and their chickens and all that that and apparently like the uh the yolks in the eggs are like the brightest you've ever seen like super nutritious dense eggs and yeah so this guy was talking about that so his eggs he would gave a comparison and I believe uh the numbers were that the amount of folate that was normally like the national average in the US was like 41 milligrams of folate and um and normally people say oh that's a good amount of folate you know eggs have you know good amount of folate yeah his his eggs had over a thousand damn yes it's like just you know more than 20 times [ __ ] the amount of nutrient density and so you see this in in animals as well they'll just get much more nutrient dense so you know is the problem that people are having with egg whites you know from the whites itself is that something that's always going to be there no matter what or if it's actually fed what it's supposed to be fed is it going to be better I don't know do anti-nutrients like soy do they translate into like eggs like would that yeah does that get held within the egg whts and stuff as well yeah and so I think that I think that's certainly a large part of this and so this is why people especially with autoimmune issues is there a good you know Canary in the coal mine uh people with with autoimmune issues because they're much more sensitive to these things because your B their body is reacting to something and they're they're creating antibodies and those antibodies have through molecular mimicry are cross attacking and crossreacting with their body right and so you can actually see this you can actually remove these things put them somebody on a a pure limit ation diet only give them the nutrients they need nothing else and they don't have autoimmune issues anymore that's been shown in in you know large clinical trials in humans and so it does seem that that people with autoimmune issues can still be sensitive to things like pork and chicken and farm race fish and you know but but really in the the normally fed ones that are fed a bunch of corn and soy and crap like that they're not designed to eat this stuff either so they're not going to be as healthy as they can be they're not going to be able to detoxify the stuff as well as they would be able to detoxify the plants uh that they're actually accustomed to eating because all you know animals plants and animals are an evolutionary arms race plants becoming more and more poisonous so less and less animals can eat them yeah okay and animals are becoming more and more adapted to specific poisons in specific plant so they can eat that plant and Survive and Thrive and that's their dedicated food source right so this is why koalas e eucalyptus nothing else eats eucalyptus right but they don't eat anything else either right and then pandas they just eat bamboo nothing else really eats bamboo maybe some insects and things like that but they're very specific animals in the wild eat extremely specifically that's actually a good point I saw an elephant push over a tree in like really dense jungle just to get the leaves at the top of this tree this one tree and it was like a specific tree and it wouldn't eat anything else around it it would it's just one of these one leaves that's a really interesting point yeah um I wanted to ask um quickly how important is folic acid and folates inside of the diet because I didn't eat a lot of organ meat when I was doing the carnival diet and I felt like everyone was talking about it and maybe I should have um yeah attributed a little bit of my portion of my diet to that most people do fine uh with with just skeletal muscle meat and fat I I hardly ever eat organs very rarely I think I've had beef liver or lamb liver you know uh three times in the last decade so um you know but that being said MH some people are going to need a little bit more I think pregnant women or women that want to get pregnant you you don't want to mess around with your your full light and so you you need to check and so that and that's the thing too you know you don't you don't need to guess at these things you don't need to sort of Wonder and guess and like oh maybe I should take these vitamins because just check you can just check your vitamins you can check your minerals you can check all these sorts of things especially if you're coming from you know the standard Western diet which is very nutrient deficient we're overfed but undernourished as as has been said you know we're getting abundance of calories and and aity of nutrients right so most people are nutrient deprived this is actually being reflected in our uh blood work our blood results or our reference ranges because reference ranges that we use are so stupid because they're they're not actually a range for good health it's not like well we figured out that this is the range of optimal uh Humanity right this is how much magnesium that you really need this is how much zinc or B12 that you need no they go by average in the community so it's so stupid what I swear to God so you know the first you know 2,000 or so people that come into a lab that's your reference range oh no yeah what if they're all slubs they are all slubs that's the problem I mean think about who's getting these tests right they're not all well baby checks right they're people that are like I'm not really feeling too well well let's check your you know this person's anemic and they're not doing well and like well let's check your B12 oh your B12 is Whatever It Is Well if everyone's getting their B12 checked who are in that position well then obviously the reference range is going to be low right and so you know when you think about the fact that and this is this is why different labs in the same area will have different reference ranges right and I always wondered that I was like in medical school I was like that's stupid why would you have different reference range it should just be a reference of Health like well they have difference because they have difference is in their Community I'm like but shouldn't be a difference in humanity there shouldn't be a difference in what's optimal for for human life right I agree and so and that's why is because what they're actually doing is they're looking for the average in the community however 90% of Americans have at least one metabolic illness Australia's pretty close to that too and over 70% of Americans are overweight or obese and Australia's right around there as well we're the little brother yeah we're adopting Taco Bell and Wendy's so it's it's heading this way that's it and so you know we you know America was was sort of an early adopter of these uh really stupid uh protocols that came in they said that you know 1977 USDA said that fat causes cholesterol and saturated fat cause heart disease stop eating them so we really got rid of fat we got rid of uh red meat uh and eggs because those were the worst right because they had the most saturated fat and cholesterol well actually it turns out they're the best but we got we significantly reduced those redu those by over a third since the 1970s increased high fructose corn syrup by over three times increased seed oils by over three times increase fruits and vegetables by 30 40% respectively uh and increase grains and all that sort of stuff as well and uh and what happened right the obesity rate tripled heart rate heart disease tripled stroke rate tripled cancer rates tripled type two diabetes autoimmune disorders Alzheimer's Parkinson's even neurod developmental delay such as autism all increased exponentially they almost didn't exist before the 1980s and now they're the only things we treat uh by and large and um you know but then the UK followed suit in 1983 MH and other Western countries followed suit after that so we're we're at the head of aead of that rush you know into into hell but everyone else is close behind right and so if you're looking at reference ranges that's not what you want to look at you don't want to look at a reference range for the average because the average person is sick the average person is unwell and so a lot of people are actually nutritionally deficient and they don't even realize it right so here in in Australia if if you get your B12 check the reference range generally is around 160 to 620 630 yeah and that's normal okay so that's the normal range below 400 you get neurological damage and demolation of of your nerve cells yeah so how is that normal yeah it's nor so 400 to 160 right so 2 30 points 230 240 points that is that is severe deficiency right that is a clear clinical deficiency that you can get brain damage from right and that's the operating levels of the majority that's it and so you go in there and you know you may be a vegetarian or plant-based or vegan or even just eating normal processed crap right which is all plant-based really you know I mean like the meat is the only saving grace in all of those things yes but that's what gets blamed on it you know they do all these studies and they say well if you reduce they they call because Pizza toppings sometimes have meat so they say well pizza's meat and fast food the burger has meat in it fast food's meat right well no but there's a bun and there's sugary sauces and there's you know French fries deep fried in seed oils or even trans fats they did that for a few decades that was fun and then uh and then you know a big sugary drink right or or diet drink that has you know a bunch of nasty stff yeah exactly so but they're blaming meat for the problem right but obviously that's not the only thing so so they say and there's no fiber in those things either so they say oh when you eat more fiber when you eat more whole fruits and vegetables people get better yeah because you're not eating junk food yeah right so yes fruits and vegetables are better than advertisements for it they would like put like sausages and bacon and stuff on a barbecue and then like it would pan to like a lady frying up cigarettes and she's like this is kind of what you're doing with the meats yeah it really isn't it's really not it yeah yeah there was that that was in um what the health that such a filthy filthy rotten here's a question I've got for you I watched what the health and I stopped drinking milk because somewhere near the end of it they were saying that whole raw milk contained I think it was 1,000 parts per million of pus mhm and I I hear information now that whole raw milk is like the best milk that you can get so much so that it's actually hard to find mhm and for some reason illegal you know Australia and illegal yeah right what the hell is that about Yeah well yeah I I don't know why they went with that but why they made it illegal but it's uh no I mean look we're mammals mammals drink milk right you don't necessarily drink it after you're weaned but you know to to to argue that milk which is literally the stuff of life for mammals is somehow toxic and dangerous and oh my God it looks like puss I mean first of all who gives a [ __ ] like like it's like oh you look in the microscope it looks like pus [ __ ] and you know like I mean is that is that does that mean it's bad for me everything under looks bad like you know it's just like who cares you know and the game changers thing you know they say it's like oh this guy had a bean burrito and this guy had a meat burrito and we took their blood and we Spin and we and we spun it in a centrifuge oh look at this one this one looks so good it looks so nice oh this one's gr to to who yeah you know what I mean what objective markers are you saying well this one looks good and that one looks bad but they said this one looks terrible oh this one looks horrible says who and then people watching that go like oh that one looks bad it's who to who because I you know I can tell you that one thing we definitely don't do in medicine is centrifuge these things go a look at that you know I have never once done that you don't do that no I've done that in uh like you know chemistry class in my undergrad you know and then we we looked at these sorts of things but uh no that's that's ridiculous that's a ridiculous thing to say and it's making just a are oh my God it has all this stuff with pus okay what is pus pus are are um I mean this is this is just this is just pissing me off more than I say it but like what is pus right pus are your white cells they're your immune cells what is milk providing to the baby animal it's providing you know IMM yes so so it's actually conferring and passing on the immune system of the mother onto the child and you do this in the form of of immune cells but and also in uh antibodies right so the baby is protected from what the mom is protected from right oh my God there's all this oh CRA yeah it's supposed to be there dude yeah you know it's a environmental thing right because the um the mother also would have an a a a reflection in a microbiome from not even just in the microbiome in the whole system of the cow from the environment that she lives in so like all of the stress hormones everything like that so I'm guessing when a cal cal sucks on the teeth of a cow it's also realizing actually this we've getting a lot of uh um what would you call it cortisol and stuff like that so like oh [ __ ] we're in a stressful environment maybe I don't know well I mean you I mean even yeah well I mean you know a m you know in the wild the mom's nipples is not going to be clean you're going to get you know a bit of like you know the surface bacteria but like you know your your biome we have tons of bacteria in and on us at all times and you know you cultivate a different you know microbiome on you and around you and in your mouth and in your intestines uh you in your your your private parts that depending on on how healthy you are and what you eat you know this is why you know women may have you know like a like a yeast infection candada infection because their microbiome and and their vagina becomes out of whack and they can't sort of hold off these these weird things and uh you get that in your mouth as well people get cavities and things like that that's from having incorrect bacteria in your mouth that then damage and E away your enamel and that comes from eating carbohydrates and fiber and things like that yeah true you know and so when you I mean think about an animal in the wild with their teeth you lose your teeth in the wild you're dead like you can't eat you can't fight you can't hunt you can't do anything all right you're done okay so you know when that happens that's that's a big deal right so you know animals they don't have dentists right they don't have you know a pack of you know benevolent you know Veterinary dentists going around like cleaning teeth and things like that and you know you know tranquilizing every lions and leopards and like scrubbing their teeth in their sleep but they always seem to have really really clean yeah and always straight yeah uh good point because you know why are we the only animal that have crooked teeth yeah crooked broken yellow rotting teeth right because we're eating the wrong things crooked teeth and underformed Jaws are purely nutritional well there's something from like chewing and stimulating that like eating the right things and getting something you know like eating meat and having that that sort of thing not just eating soft you know highly palatable crap you you need that that pressure in the mouth in a certain way to help stimulate growth but also you need the nutrients so you need Vitamin K2 and K1 calcium and D3 these all work together in concert to grow your jaw and your teeth and if you don't get enough of that and most people are not getting enough vitamin K2 which is only fat soluble it only comes from animals people say oh there's a whole bunch of vitamin K and you know kale and things like that they have vitamin K1 we need Vitamin K2 and there's only about a 1% conversion from K2 K1 to K2 and So you you're just not going to get it and um vitamin K also makes vitamin D3 more bio bioavailable correct uh yeah it has a lot of interactions with with calcium as well as as Vitamin D as well this is why you'll generally see vitamin D3 come with K2 EX and so very important uh vitamin right also has to do with coagulation in our blood this a precursor to our our coagulation factors in our blood right and so like warrin counteracts that knocks out vitamin K2 and that's and so we can't make as much coagulation factors so that's how that works and so if you're not getting enough of this stuff you're going to get crooked teeth you're going to get smaller jaw you're not going to get your wisdom teeth in yeah all the fossils before the Agricultural Revolution big wide Jaws yeah all had the wisdom teeth all had full sets of teeth in fact some of the the remains that we have are really only teeth you know because everything else went away and the teeth were were there there's the hardest hardest part of the body and they they didn't rot they didn't go away they didn't get cavities they didn't get crooked teeth and then Agricultural Revolution came there's a clear split so archaeologists can actually tell the difference between a skull before and after the Agricultural Revolution damn based on that yeah wow yeah just had rotten broken crooked teeth right so it's not genetic it's not genetic you know what animal in the wild has crooked teeth none no none do you know Ben Greenfield have you heard of him I don't know name I don't think I've I've come across much of Ben Greenfield he's like um biohacking genius like the guy just biohacks everything um and he came across the book breath breathe breath and it's all about what you were just describing how the Jaws are actually getting smaller since the Agricultural Revolution um and there's a pallet divider have you seen this before no I don't think so it's actually kind of crazy um there's like a it's almost like a reverse Vice that you put inside your jaw at the top and you turn it and and it breaks open the palet and this guy's got like an extra five nickels worth of bone in his face just from these thing and like he did it after the age of 21 oh wow what am I doing trust me having to Google like Norm have a dude sitting there but we're moving this whole studio so I was like don't worry about coming in today I can always uh edit this out yeah yeah so it's like that oh crazy yeah crazy right just like from eating tender steak they yeah we don't have the separation anymore um yeah and this guy has like he he kind of has broken it down if you can get your children to chew like hard things like they have this a type of gum and I can't remember what it's called I'll I'll put it on the screen if I remember to um and it's it's non- nutrient based and it doesn't have any kind of like I think it's like proper for carnivore people you know um and you just chew it only on the one side apparently if you chew on both sides at the same time it can be a stress response um so you chew on one side for like 10 minutes and it's like a really hard gum kind of thing and it develops the children Jaws because we don't have the like you don't cook a rump steak for a kid and just like just child grow the [ __ ] out of it you know kids won't ate it yeah well but you know but soft veggies you know you boil all this crap and they're just eating you know just just vegetable slurry there's no chewing involved right they're just they're eating very very soft things so even just eating meat that's actually a lot harder than these other things which is funny too because that's why why we actually have smaller Jaws smaller teeth than than other Apes right like like gorillas and chimpanzees because even though we came from a similar background we started having more adaptations to do with Carnivor right because we were eating softer and softer food right so so a gorilla is just chewing on sticks and leaves all day you know I mean that that's very tough it's just this big fiber thing there're just chewing and chewing and chewing they're eating something like 60 pounds of leaves a day so chew chewing tons of this stuff because it's very nutrient pores it's it's horrible nutrients nutrition it's so poor in fact you people say like oh well if you just eat dirty leaves you can get B12 no sorry um that's not real no you're not going to get enough maybe you get a bit but like but I mean again you know like a vegan sort of has a has a B12 of 200 oh it's perfectly fine with what I'm doing it's not and so gorillas they're eating dirty leaves all the time right they're not spritzing this stuff you know and and cleaning it off before they eat it uh but they don't get enough B12 from what they and eat 60 lbs of leaves a day damn these vegans aren't eating 60 lbs of leaves a day um but it can take like eight nine years before you completely deplete out your your B12 to get to the point that you're actually in in a state of of Crisis so that's why I'm having hemp oil man what that bro fine then that's perfectly fine yeah yeah that that's obviously what we evolved on was hemp oil and get all the nutrients you need from that and uh so yeah so gorillas they don't get all 12 that they need from eating that um so we're definitely don't going to no and and one of the arguments that people Mak like oh well actually there's there's some bacteria in your gut that that can make B12 so that's fine okay that bacteria is in your colon you absorb B12 in your small intestine just like a gorilla does right so a gorilla actually eats its feces as well because it has to get through round two because a there's you know cow digests its food you know multiple times because they chew this stuff up they regurgitated it up they're they're eating that chewing that it's called chewing their cud that's called cud and that goes back down they swallow it back down goes into another part of the stomach and and and continues the digestion process on from there gorillas don't have that ability and so the prim the system Prime the system and they get that out and they eat their feces wow and they eat their feces and uh you know maybe that's why you know like chimpanzees and gorillas that throw their feces at people maybe they're just sharing they're like hey you know you look like you need some B12 why don't you take you know you reckon that sense it and um you know so it's they have to do that and so you know I I just highly doubt that these people a well a you know the gut bacteria in your colon is whether it makes B12 or not it's too little too late right so because it's past the point in your gut where you can absorb the B12 so you would have to eat your feces I don't think that they're doing that too often and I hope not and uh you know and then uh you know getting oh some some journal on that that's something that's been that's been asserted but never proven something oh well this is this is what it is um there's no actual hard evidence for that and you know when people are saying well my B12 is fine well okay how long have you been vegan how long have you not eaten anything with B12 in it how long have you not had any B12 shots you know because again it takes eight nine years before you if you have a good level it can take eight nine years before you get down to to a point that you're like you're getting serious neurological problems and symptoms and you're getting anemic and all that sort of stuff and so you check your your B12 and it's so-called normal but it's anything but and it's and it's going in the wrong direction as well yeah is it is it more harsh to the body to have like an exogenous B12 like a like a shot of B2 that's your water by the way if you need it oh than um if you need a like if you if you're deficient in B12 is it better to go and get a shot of B12 or make the adjustment in the diet straight up obviously over time it's going to be better for the diet because then you're not going to need shots all the time yeah uh yeah well you should you might need both right and so you know if I if I have a patient and their B12 is under 400 I'm giving them a shot yeah okay yeah and I'm telling them change your diet but you know you you need to get that level up because that's actually at a point of of actual deficiency where you can cause neurological damage there's even an interesting study out of Oxford in 2008 where they found uh they followed a lot of people and one one of the co HZ was a group of vegans and they just started veganism and they followed them for 5 years after they gone vegan and they found and they did MRIs and they studied their brain and their spinal cord and they actually found that their brains had shrunk in size by over 5% on average right and so they they attributed that to to the reduction in the B12 right because this this below 400 can cause demin we actually see this in neurosurgery you you know which I I work in neurosurgery we actually see this so like vegans and vegetarians have these like thinned out cords spinal cords and things like that yeah the long-term vegans too yeah is that because of like lower amounts of Omega sixes and Omega-3s as well cuz you're not getting as much fish oil and all that stuff as well yeah so yeah the the Omega 6 to3 ratio is terrible in Plants absolutely wretched and you know the more Omega sixes you have so you need Omega sixes you need Omega threes you die without either but you need far less Omega 6 is then than what we're actually getting and it's the same enzyme that processes both omega-3 and Omega 6 and if you have an abundance of Omega 6es you can actually use up all of those enzymes so even if you have omega-3s and maybe enough Omega-3s it's not getting processed because you run out of that enzyme because it's been used up by all the Omega sixes and maybe you have even more Omega sixes that's still drowning things out and so in meat is a much much much better Omega 6 to omega3 ratio much better and uh so that that's that's a major problem because the the downstream products of Omega 6es are extremely pro-inflammatory I think cause a lot of issues in fact the the end Downstream products of Omega sixes are actually what like the Cox inhibitors Target so like you know ibuprofen uh napasin and you know and uh gosh what do you guys call it here I'm blanking neuropen right so all those anti inflammatories they block the the end products of omega-6 uh production right so that's that's what they do and you need those you need those molecules to a certain degree right but but you get an abundance of these things you can cause increased inflammation you cause and increased pain so these inflammatory factors you know go into like aitis you have like an injury or something like that or you know even like a low grade injury maybe you have like a bit of you know arthritis in your back or something like that and that that those inflammatory factors go up they cause more inflammation in that area and it causes increase pain expression in those areas you get more pain and so then you take these you know Cox to Inhibitors and that you know blocks those those things and so that reduces that inflammatory response and reduces that pain signal so that's how that reduces pain is by reducing that inflammation but if you didn't have that inflammation in the first place you wouldn't have the pain I heard like um for Toleration as well like over time if you continued on with those ibuprofin and urin and whatnot it actually causes more inflammation than it prevents H yeah I um have you heard that I I have and I but the thing is too is that I've I haven't looked too closely into that but one thing I did hear was because it's an anti-inflammatory and because it can sort of block out part of our immune system which is what yeah inflammation is it's our immune system sort of acting up that can be normal right and so our immune system and our inflammatory system has to do with with healing as well and so there's some suggestions that if you're if you're taking these things long term you can actually you're taking for like say arthritis pain mhm that that can actually speed up the degradation of your of your cartilage and cause worsening arthritis so it's it's sort of a patch and it takes care of you for a while and it helps with the pain but because your body is not able to recycle and heal and repair certain things you know your tissues are breaking down a bit faster so that that's been a suggestion I haven't looked too far into that research but that that is something that that uh that I've seen would it be correct in saying that the body's response well to let you know know that something's wrong is inflammation and by reducing the inflammation and not curing what's happening it's going to let you know in a different way like it would show inflammation say if we're talking about arthritis if you got bad knees and you're taking these ibuprofen for long enough and it would start I don't know maybe hurt like hurting in your ankles now because you haven't fixed your knees you know you've just been kind of like let's push that to the side would that be a correct kind of way to say it yeah well I mean even even physically I mean you can get compensation for like if you have arthritis in your knee and you're not dealing with that then other other joints and things like that overcompensate and they can get worsening wear and tear as a result of that right um but you know also if we're focusing on symptom management as opposed to root cause treatment mhm then the problem's still there and it's getting worse and we're just covering it up right so you know the idea is if there's smoke there's fire right yeah but if I blow away the smoke well there's no smoke there's no fire yeah right just well no you just you just blowing the smoke away fire is still ranging and actually you're blowing on it worse yeah you know and so and so that can happen too and so you know that that's unfortunately a major problem with with modern medicine is that we're in symptom treatment and management we're in disease management as opposed to disease prevention as opposed to cures and fixing things and I think that's a fundamental problem and that that's why I found it so important this uh this whole how diet and nutrition relates to chronic disease because I I think that that is that is the root cause I think that we are animals and the type of animals we are are carnivores we're biologically designed to eat meat and animals eat a very specific diet especially when they're eating plants they eat specific plants we are not eating specific plants we are eating all sorts of plants and if you could you could argue that maybe we were eating plants 50,000 years ago 100,000 years ago 500,000 years ago maybe maybe you could argue that but you can't argue that we're eating any of the plants that we're eating now because they didn't exist back then yeah right and so generally what we ate is meat and in the ice ages when people were up hunting mammoths there was no plants yeah you know and so there were no plants yeah that's it and so there's no plants to eat there we were a lot of humanity was living as the Inuit do today or the nette do today which is like up in Siberia and they just they just ate meat right and so so our ancestors did that as well and you know some were more towards the equator and that's great but not all of them were when the ice when the ice sheets started coming down people say oh well people just moving towards the equator and we just never dealt with that there was always plants available there are so many things that are just they're just thrown out there without any evidence either being asked for or provided yeah and this is one of them they said oh well you know people just move towards the equator because it sounds good to them it's the only thing that would would make their story make sense M right but that's exactly the opposite what we see in the fossil record as as ice sheets were coming down humans were going into the ice right yeah and so that's where the big game was that's where the meapa was and so we were actually going into it right we had fire we controlled fire and we had we were hunting we had these these prey animals these big mammoths that was it that we wanted we scared them off cliffs we have evidence of that going back millions of years where we would like do something spook them scare them over a cliff they'd fall and die and then we'd use stone tools to to cut them up and that would be food for years you know and you know Mammoth goes a long way oh yeah especially if you get two or three off yeah exactly you know so so this is something that we've been doing for a very very long time and and really just eating meat and so we have been biologically adapted and designed to to get this and again we need fat and protein and certain nutrients well meat has all of those and they're perfectly bioavailable so we get everything that we need for meat in the proportion that we need them and we were there long long periods of time where people really didn't have access to plants and you know maybe some people somewhere were eating some plants sometimes maybe but you know the best evidence shows that there were periods of time that people were living in you know ice locked areas yeah right you know I mean what what were the people that that crossed the the land bridge from Asia to North America and populated the Americas what what what what sort of plants were they eating you know during the middle of the Ice Age where they could walk across Bearing Sea yeah exactly and so you know it's um you know so there's certainly times and areas where people were exclusively eating meat and so we know that as Homo sapiens we can eat that right because we are Homo sapiens Homo sapiens sapiens right and so if you had a a large disparity in the optimal diet between two animals you're talking about two different species right I challenge anyone to find any example in nature of two members of the same species that have different optimal diets yeah and now and now that's not you know of of you know at the same point in the life cycle right because a tadpole is going to be eating something different than a frog you know a baby giraffe is going to eat something different than than a grown-up giraffe right but you know in mammals but the breakdown of amino acids is still the same requirement pretty much yeah pretty much and so and and yeah and so but like a a mammal is going to drink milk and then it's going to start drinking what the parents eat and then it's only and then it's eating that for the rest of its life yeah right all the way across cheetahs eat what cheetah eat lions eat what lions eat anywhere you go right and that's what's best for them because that's what they're biologically adapted and designed to eat we're the same thing right we have been gen pretty well genetically conserved for about 300,000 years and so there have been some changes but not not vast changes now some of those changes actually to do with food people that have had agriculture in the last sort of 8 to 10,000 years have built up a little bit more resistance to these things but I mean a little bit because it's not optimal so Europeans people from you know the the Middle East and you know Samaria and Northern Africa these are very early places that had that had agriculture have a bit more defenses right native Australians they have like no defenses because they didn't have agriculture until Europeans showed up and for hundreds of years they were still just like yeah fine we're we're we're fine eating kangaroo thank you and as became more westernized and and you know and more of this stuff became and they became exposed to more and more of this they started adopting more of the food and the alcohol and the sugar and things like that that we eat or that the Europeans were eating I don't eat it but but uh it no and they got very sick you know so so a lot of these a lot of these uh testimonials and and books and things like that written about you know in the 1800s 1600s 1700s of the Australian Aborigines or the Native Americans and even suban Africans they were like you know the these primitive people with like bright white teeth and extremely healthy lean and strong like the Messiah are today just these big tall on average 6' three dudes yeah big big and um I remember reading an account about the Aborigines in Australia and there's some sort of conflict in like the 1800s between the the British and and yeah there was a little conflict a few of them at different times but but there was there was a particular one in Western Australia and they found subsequently they went and looked at the bones of like the dead Aborigines and they found that like some of their forearm bones dense as [ __ ] right but longer than their whole arm right there some big bastards right so and and again that's not that's not purely genetic you know there's epigenetic effects and so you know you're you're eating the right thing and you're going to develop to your genetic potential right if you're not eating the right thing you're not going to develop to your potential and and areas that are you know undernourished and Mal malnourished and mfed you know places have gone through periods of famine and starvations like you know in across Asia and the communist countries communist socialist countries like Cambodia and and Northern Korea uh China all these places that had very short stature and then they go those parents go into Australia or to England or to America they used to have have an abundance of food available their kids are 6'4 right and they're and they're you know 5 foot something right yeah and so you know the average height of a population denotes the average health of a population interesting yeah and so and again we're homos saans right and so we should have a similar genetic potential for heightened development and brain capacity and since the Agricultural Revolution not only our Jaws have gotten smaller our brains have gotten smaller they've reduced by 11% since the Advent of of Agriculture right because our brains are not developing what do you see that going if if if advertisement and stuff is getting so compelling now that like you know McDonald's advert just boost their revenue 100% over the next year yeah what is the meat industry doing you know like Farmers coming out and saying look we need to really look at this or is it just too much of a farmer fight like the grain Industries kind of pushing us back or you know well the big Food Industries are multi-trillion dollar Industries and they uh are heavily invested in pharmaceutical Industries as well and vice versa and uh cut that out no I'm kidding well but you know but think about that I mean that's that's a conflict of interest right there you know I you're investing in something like the food that we eat that can cause these diseases that the pharmaceutical industry is treating right and so that that's a bit of a conflict of interest right there and so especially because these people are all the ones making the guidelines on the health and nutrition guidelines as well and so you know and and everyone that goes from you know the CDC and the FDA and USDA and all the the heads of all those things all end up working for fizer and Merc and and all the different sorts of uh big private companies because there's this I'll scratch your I scratch your back you scratch my back so you know I let your drugs through I don't I don't look too hard at all this sort of stuff and we'll let this stuff through and we'll make these things sort of favorable for you and when I retire in in 15 years I get this Kush board position where I basically you know show up for a zoom meeting once a month and I get paid you know a million dollars a year sort of thing and I get stock options you know that's what the money is and so you know or whatever their deal is but it's a bit suspicious that you know all these these uh you know people in the in the public sector that write the guidelines and allow these things to go through are also just getting these big cushy jobs in the Private Industry as soon as they're out of there it's a bit it's a bit concerning now I mean these people have a lot of experience they have a lot of experience working with the FDA and the CDC they have experience in making money that's what it is right yeah that's where like all of the the the greed and like the want to be the best comes from did you see the the pyramid the food pyramid of this year that came out I think it was uh January no it was like what the um uh I think it was the World Health Organization what they recommended for food and they said a bowl of Captain Crunch cereal is better for you than a bowl of beef mints and three eggs yeah right I did see that yeah so yeah I saw that so that was the thing you know so people are saying that this is this is something that um that like from tough's uh University it came out and um and some people are are are saying that well that was that was a utilization of those sorts of things they're not necessarily saying that well this is better than that and and they people that sort of the apologist for it will say well that's not what they're saying you can't compare things out of the different they're saying that these sort of carbohydrates things of the carbohydrate sort of things these are these are better than the other ones and that of the meats these are better than the other ones and all that sort of stuff but that's actually a bit silly because they color cord these coordinated these things so things were like green was just like these are a go green is a go eat as much as you want these are great these are really good for you and then yellow was like yeah you know eating moderation and then red is just like you shouldn't have this stuff ever so whether or not that's in the same category or not one's green one's yellow one's red and so Captain Captain Crunch and lucky charm Lucky Charms right so like you know so these things with with like sugar marshmallows in it right yeah literally sugar chunks you know they that was in the green group eat as much of that as you want that is perfect nutrition go right and then eggs and ground beef were in the red right so it's kind of like like one one sector is like a little like to the other sector you know what I'm saying like a little [ __ ] you kind of thing and then like the mate industry has to fight back against that but the thing is that there is no meat industry as there per se you know because it it's it's disseminated it's like all these ranchers I mean they don't they they don't have like a big Union you know it's not like Nestle you know Nestle is is a multinational multi-trillion doll instit institution that owns dozens and dozens of other companies are very well in control of things so with Coca-Cola Pepsi Co things like that it's basically those three they just they just run the food industry right Tyson is a major one as well but Tyson you know and all these different Food Industries yes they make money from meat but they make a lot more money from everything else and there's a huge huge huge markup on plant-based foods and like sugar and things like that Sugar's addictive sugar sends the you know the fructose is the sweet part of sugar and sweetest part of sugar and that gives an add a dopamine hit to the addiction centers of your brain Just Like Cocaine heroin and meth and there are MRI studies showing that fructose kills the same areas of your brain as meth to the same extent as meth whoa all right so this is a drug and they are putting this in this is this is the opium trade at the moment right so they're they're just flooding this stuff in and people just using they don't even realize it and they're giving it to kids and they're saying it's good for them and you know and they and they're you know saying the these these Lucky Charms are okay and then like even like honeynut Cheerios you know was ranked above normal Cheerios I was like what it's like the sugar made it better yeah you know come on man like what the hell and like you know it's it's absolutely anything is better bro probably true [ __ ] up and so you know and and and fructose is degraded and broken down in the same byproducts as alcohol so gets turned into the same chemicals as alcohol does yeah all all that tons of different different junk uh that it gets turned into so it goes down the same pathway oh so fructose gets broken down into the exact same byproducts that alcohol gets broken down into now they do different things before they get to the liver but once they're and then broken down they it's exactly the same wow and so it causes the same problems gram for gram right so fatty liver disease therosis diabetes heart disease even implicated in cancer and Alzheimer's right so you know there's a link between sugar and Alzheimer's right so this a degradation of an adult mature healthy brain to the point of severe dementia and death you know what's that doing to a developing brain what's that doing to a fetus it's not going to be good no right and so you actually see this this large uptick in neurodevelopmental diseases such as autism and I think that there's I think there's a cative link there I think yeah well there's certain there's a hard correlation yeah but coration I think I think there is um you see this in and a number first of all you just there's a lot of interventions that just put people on a ketogenic diet and autism reverses or at least improve significantly in adults when they've already developed but in kids if you get them young enough their brain still has a chance to develop oh wow more properly and that's what autism is in my view is is it's a mdev of these neurons you're getting neurons that aren't quite developing properly and they're just not working properly in some some cases they found that there were like different parts of the brain they actually had like three times the number of neurons that you normally find like oh wow well maybe this is just a different variant and it's just sort of expressing where no what it is is that those nerves th those brain cells aren't doing the job that the brain needs it to so it's stimulating more of them to grow saying hey no we need more of this we need more of this we need more of this but they're defunct and they're not working properly so they're NE transmitting properly exactly and so you know but if you get that early enough and you sort of get rid of all that crap that's harming them MH then they can recover and those those neurons can develop properly so there you know with with um there's a professor Chris Palmer from Harvard he's a professor of Psychiatry at Harvard and he wrote a book called brain energy and i' I've had him on my podcast very interesting guy but he is reversing schizophrenia depression OCD bipolar what and ADHD and autism by putting people on ketogenic diet damn and he's sort of shown the research behind why he thinks is working which is the mitochondria the mitochondri lot of things come down to the mitochondria cancer comes down to the mitochondria most things come down to the mitochondria and disruption of the of their normal functioning they don't just produce at so if people don't know mitochondria are organells in your cell that produce ATP which is the energy for life that's that's what all life runs on adrenal triphosphate uh yeah Denine triphosphate Denine triphosphate yeah and so you know that that is what cells run on that's the currency of life right but don't just sit there just pumping out ATP they actually move around the cell there's these different structure and lattice inside the cell and they actually run up and down these tracks and they go to this part of the cell membrane and they release ATP so this releases this neurotransmitter at this time at this exact location in this amount right and they go over here and they release it to this organel so they can make this protein they can do this and then go to this and go to this and you've got thousands of these little things buzzing around producing ATP now if those things are just a little late and they're not producing quite enough then you're going to get the wrong signal it's going to be delayed [ __ ] or it's you know some sometimes things are are you know sort of suppressive so it's not getting there and now you're getting too much of a signal yeah right so you're getting too much of a signal or not enough signal but either way you're you're out of balance and so when that's happening in your brain that's a big deal yeah especially because you have anywhere from 400 million to two trillion neurons right and you got hundreds to thousands of these uh mitochondria each one of those things that problem starts to escalate quite severely yeah and so when you start damaging these mitochondria you get serious problems when your insulin is up this blocks autophagy this blocks mitophagy so autophagy is or autophagy fagy meaning is like is to eat right so this is autopages your body's eating these cells recycling them turning them into new cells New Bright bright-eyed bushy tailed cells that work better but you can also do that with your specific organel within the cells so the cell can actually recycle its internal parts and keep itself running and optimized right like your mitochondria so your mitochondria start running little get a little bit decrepit a little bit broken down all this oxidative stress and so they need to break those down recycle them for parts make new ones and what we found in various studies is that when you go on a ketogenic diet you within a few months you will increase the number of mitochondria you have by a factor of four wow and they increase their efficacy by a factor of four whoa so you get this multiplicative increase and also you're getting the right response at the right time and that's very important when you're talking about neurons and so he found that this was really to do with that that these psychiatric diseases were actually metabolic diseases and so you fix the metabolism you fix the mitochondria with diet and and other sorts of interventions that this can cure schizophrenia OCD bipolar major depression anxiety ADHD and autism if you catch it in time adults with autism can be significantly improved in their in their symptoms and and their functioning of their of their brain and body but in kids it's it's even more dramatic you can actually reverse the damage there's um a number of different studies that I found when I first got curious about this and I remember looking into it and thinking wait a minute you know well when I started thinking about like well started thinking about medicine from the standpoint of we are humans and the kind of human we are is a carnivore and animals have a specific biologically appropriate and designed diet and we're not eating that and I start and then just everything in medicine just started slotting into place I just started digging into the research and seeing okay what do we know what can we prove and I I spending about 10 hours a day for I don't know six months just just reading studies reading studies read reading studies reading studies and so I I found quite a lot I started asking questions and I started saying okay you know if if this is true we should see something in literature you know that expresses this okay let's start looking for that and I I would just start start looking these things asking questions and looking for what what you know because if you have two competing theories you should be able to find evidence with with which to test them against and so that's what I I I tried to do and then I came to sort of the the idea that maybe autism was to do with nutrition maybe it was tied up in Sugar maybe it was to do with not eating enough meat and so I said okay well if that's the case we should be able to see something in it well what about so how can we see about you know sugar are there any studies about specifically does sugar cause autism can find anything so you have to ask in a sort of a secuest way and so I thought okay is there a higher rate of autism in kids that are bottle-fed o with formula right formula has a lot of they take away oh Fat's bad we can't give that to kids even though it's in breast milk you know that's like literally exactly what they need such a stupid argument so dumb and so they they replace with sugar they know what they're doing stuff is addictive and they're getting these kids addictive and they overeat and yeah well but also they just eat more formula yeah true right because I just want more want more want more it's addictive moish yeah and um and so there that exactly that exact study has been done and so they have found that kids that uh are bottle fed are more likely to get autism and that study didn't particular didn't specifically look at look at uh formula it was just bottle fed versus breastfed right but a lot of people who do bottle feed use formula at least in part and so now people can express and then put that in the bottles you would imagine it would be like that because they can only synthesize so many chemicals oh even nutrients right there's only so many nutrients UT that you can synthesize before it it doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense as to why they would even make that distinction between just bottle and breast it should be formula and breast oh it should be yeah but but the good thing about that is that most people who bottle feed aren't expressing and then giving a bottle some people do but most people will give formula or or at least some formul but people who exclusively breastfeed they're exclusively breastfeeding right and so but even then and I I think the disparity the difference would be even more Stark if you were like formula versus exclusive breastfeeding or breast milk feeding I think that would that would show that the difference is actually even worse a lot more binary you could just say we have like this and this but but there's already a difference with bottle fed and breastfed right right there's already an increased assoc increased correlation of or increased uh incidence of autism in kids that are bottle fed right mothers who eat more red meat in the 3 months before conception MH lower rates of kid with kids with autism mothers we have higher LDL cholesterol and higher saturated fat intake during pregnancy lower rates of kids with autism what right so this is getting the necessary nutrients to grow and develop their brain properly dude that's wild yeah uh there even more wild one there's a study out of Texas A&M that found an actual causitive link between food and autism or at least a particular kind of autism right autism spectrum disorder it's a spectrum of symptoms I think that means that there's a spectrum of causes and different sorts of parts of the brain that this is affecting to different levels and degrees and they found and so that was that was the thing I was asking that I was like okay does the absence of meat you know do you need meat in order to get uh you know a proper brain development I would say so um and and that was the thing I asked I was like hm you know is autism to do with nutrition and I so I thought about it and I and so I looked back and I looked at the the prevalence and incidence and the sort of the increase in autism and when that started going up it was at the exact same time as the heart disease obesity and diabetes and and cancer rates all started going up and it perfectly tracked up with all the rest of the diseases so I was like okay this this could very well be uh a you know a gene someone with a genetic predisposition and environmental trigger but because we were eating a lot of meat before they're not getting that environmental trigger so the the genetics are the same it's just it's becoming more apparent now because people are radically changing the way they're eating yeah and so I thought okay is Less meat a risk factor for autism okay look into that if that's the case vegans and vegetarians should have higher rates of kids with autism yes and in fact they do and so their kids are have a much higher rate of autism what kind of factor I don't I don't I I don't recall it at this point but yeah but it but it is higher oh I'm L looking into this and uh and Texas A&M actually found a reason one of the reasons why yeah so they found that you actually have to have carnitine for proper neuronal development and in fact talking to Chris Palmer he was saying yeah actually carnitine is integral for mitochondrial Health in the brain as well that's a median train triglyceride as well it's it's an amino acid it's an yeah course it is and so it's uh and it's considered a non-essential amino acid because we it okay cartine carnosine carnivore car Latin for body right so this comes from bodies it doesn't come from plants I remember taking uh cartine before going to the gym and just feeling like an animal well you know even taking yeah taking carnitine that actually increases the testosterone receptors in your cells so whatever testosterone levels you have yeah if you have more carnitine you'll have more receptors you'll have more of an effect from your from your testosterone so yeah you you will do that and and it will have long-term effects right so these things these things kick off epigenetic sort of effects that affect you weeks and months and years down the chain and so yeah sorry to interrupt oh that's okay and so specifically in autism they found that carnitine was essential for neuronal development and and just the normal workings in your body now we consider that a non-essential amino acid because we make it but actually only 70% of people make enough or even any at all some people don't make enough and some people don't make any and so literally 30% that's a big number that's huge right and so depending on what you're eating you could be in trouble because carnitine does not exist in Plants right you have to get it from meat it exists in most animal products most Dairy but it is most abundant in red meat red meat what's the first thing the vegetarians drop red meat red meat right because that's the worst Chan chicken that's it well again it's the best right and this is another reason why you know yes we make carnitine but actually having more carnitine is actually beneficial in a lot of in a lot of ways and you know I mean we we make uh you know uh other things that that we you know have and makes all what's non-essential but we actually do better when we have more of it and we get a lot of it from meat and things like that so vegans and vegetarians are becoming more prevalent and rates of autism is becoming more apparent and one of the reasons is because of this lack of carnitine so this is not going to affect everyone you have to have the genetic predisposition and the environmental trigger so previously when everyone knew that meat was really important to get this is where the nutrients were this is you had to have this in your diet they went after meat and they and they they tried to get meat and so this you didn't really see this as as much in the population so it was quite low but now that people are purposefully avoiding meat it's starting to become more prevalent and so if you have a kid that has this issue and they're not making enough carnitine uh let's say they're vegetarian and they're getting a bit of carnitine and some chicken or fish or maybe some eggs or dairy but they're not eating too much of that and you know and they're mostly eating vegetables and they don't make any carnitine at all they're going to be deficient and they're going to have they're going to develop this form of autism then the vegans they don't eat any animal products at all so even if they're slightly deficient in their ability to make car because they're not getting anything in their diet you know they'll still they'll still get this this type of autism and this is this is completely preventable and reversible hey everyone really happy to announce a new sponsor for the show for everybody down in Australia Stockman Stakes who are delivering highquality grass-fed and finished pasture raised beef and other meats flash frozen and vacuum sealed tood door something that I've been enjoying a lot of myself recently as well they also have a great range of specialty items such as high fat keto mints and carnivore beef and organs mints with liver kidneys and beef heartart as well so use code chaffy today for free order of beef mints or another specialty gift along with your order at Stockman steaks.com DOA and I'll see you over there thanks guys it's also ethically wrong I think so right if if you're a human your urge to have children is there obviously you want to procreate do you want to give your children like the worst like rate of Advantage at all like what what is going on there yeah I think I think it's completely unethical and immoral to to do that to your child you know you want to you want to you know ruin your own life that's your business but you don't get to do that to another life that's that's under your care I think that's I think that's parent neglect and I think that's that's criminal neglect and in fact there are there are people even in this world of like oh vegan so wonderful and plant-based this that and the other there are people that are getting their kids taken away from them because they're they're vegan they're pushing that on their kids and their kids are getting so malnourished that it's actually damaging them and and it's dangerous kids are kids have died and and the parents have been prosecuted for murder good because yes good because they have been you know giving them a fruitarian sort of thing but that's the problem is that they they they really believe this they've been sucked in by these vegan gurus who are work for Steve Jobs it's not going to work for you well there's that exactly you know what I'm saying yeah and there's even mothers that are that are vegan that whose kids are dying from their breast milk what yeah because their breast milk is so deficient in Nutri and potentially passing on you know harmful level of oxalates and other toxins or lectins and whatever that to the calcium it bind to the calcium but but it does a lot of other things too and you know oxalate Po and you you can you can die from oxalate poisoning it can C it can cause an acute um cardiac arrest you know and so I think it's like over like people that have had over I think like 4,000 milligrams of oxalate in in one go yeah have died right that almost certainly in the context of someone eating you know more than they should going on and then they had this sort of build up build up build up and then all of a sudden you know the hammer came down and uh and they got very sick and they died and uh you know there's a ton in in the case uh published case studies there are a ton of those examples you know um and Sally Norton goes through several of them in her book uh talking about you know in this case this Happ and there was diagnosed this was acute oxalate poisoning you know from eating this this whatever that had 4,000 Mig of oxalates in it and things like that wow you don't absorb all of it it's like 10% maybe you absorb but you eat 4,000 and you you know you're absorbing 400 that that that's what we're talking about we're talking about how much you're eating not how much you're absorbing so you know spinach is going to have like 600 milligrams of oxalates but absorbing 60 that's that's what's causing the problem so you don't want to eat more than 150 200 a day right but you're only going to absorb like 10% n at all where I'm where I'm coming from yeah and you know to just to just H hop back uh to when you first talking about hormesis like you know again this is this is just the cop out of the day from the vegan Community is that uh it it started with like you know plants don't have defense chemicals that's just crazy we're in the Garden of Eden didn't you know haven't you read the Bible right so um you know they people think that they actually think that that plants are 100% safe and it's like okay well then why do you go to the grocery store you know why do you why do you yeah why do you buy Lettuce why don't you just go to the park get a bunch of random ass leaves you know and so you know it's just like it's it's a silly thing to say you know and to deny you know this is just this this is a well-known phenomenon that that plants use toxins to defend themselves right and so you know they they tried arguing that for a while but I mean the evidence is just frankly there and So eventually they actually read a book and went oh crap all right yep all right they're here all right so what's our what's our cop out now oh well I bet you they're good for you you know hold on a second so these are designed in order to kill and deter animals and insects that is their purpose and yet you're saying that they're good for you why would they be good for you you know are we biologically designed to eat them are they are we biologically adapted to you know get you know maximal nutrition and benefit from these things that did not exist 50 years ago some of these things didn't exist last year and we're saying that yeah exactly this is all made up broccoli I mean that that's all comes from the mustard plant right it's all like the same thing yeah yeah and so yeah a lot of those things are and so you know they just breed these things and going different directions you know Swiss chard all these tons of oxalates in Swiss chard and so you know you would never guess it right CU that would just look so healthy yeah know and they taste so good you know it's not that they're bitter and disgusting as hell you know and that and that's that should tell you something you know that bitter taste is your your tongue in your brain which are sophisticated machines telling you a warning saying hey there's something bad here don't eat this your natural instinct when you put something bitter in your mouth is to spit it out yeah right that's the survival mechanism and so when you give kids those those broccoli and the spinach and things like that they spit out you know they they're disgusted and horrified by you know because they're they're closer to their genetics than we are and so they haven't they haven't been inundated and and pressured and and brainwashed into thinking well that no that horrible taste that's good for you have to eat it you have to eat it it's good for you it's good for you it's good for you um and now they're like and I it's like Stockholm syndrome right they're like oh no I like it when he like no you don't stop it you know and I used to always spit out my onions and capsicums I hated them like when [ __ ] are night shades those are even worse they're the worst things you can eat yeah were very bad anyway of of the so-called edible plants right but they can kill you you know I mean solanine can kill you in in a high enough uh you know levels and especially things that are that are still green those seeds aren't ready they do not want you to eat that that's one of their highest levels of defense chemicals are in there this is why that traditionally they say that that green tomatoes are poisonous right and that's because those seeds are not ready and that's where the highest levels of of saline and other toxins are in there because the tomatoes in night shade as well interesting and so have you heard of the mild model virus the mild model virus yeah I don't think so it's a a type of virus that grows on uh night shades like capsicums and bell peppers same thing and um jalapenos and stuff um and it only grows on agricultural grown H um like in fields like one crop single crop Agriculture and apparently it gets into your microbiome and it acts like an anti-nutrient okay and it just stops the absorption of like I think a lot of um amino acids and stuff which is very strange yeah interesting I'll check it out yeah but yeah so I mean you know the then these people go and they say well you know I bet you it's good for you well based on what well based on the fact that we have these epidemiological studies that say if you eat more fruits and vegetables you know it's better for you like well that doesn't actually first of all that doesn't say that that's better because of hormesis yeah that just says is it's better than what you're comparing it against but what you're comparing it against is the standard [ __ ] diet right because that's where these things are done there's like this is the standard diet you're just eating the normal processed food diet 70% processed food or still plant-based and most of that's processed food and you know kids are like literally eating like 70 80% of their their calories come from processed food which is nuts and adults you know in America and Australia and the West you know 30 40% of their D process yeah it is a lot of [ __ ] s yeah and so you know they're saying that just like okay so that's what you're comparing it to right because you're comparing it against the norm you're comparing it against the society so when you have this intervention you say okay well what about these people that are eating less of that you're comparing it to to a processed food diet right okay yeah no one's no one's arguing that no one's saying that that's not better um but that's not what I'm talking about I'm not talking about uh a processed food diet I don't I I agree processed food diet is terrible what we're comparing here what we're talking about is a whole food meat-based diet with a whole food plant-based diet your best vegan vegetarian diet versus just a steak right and that they have not done and so all of their studies these big epidemiological studies they're extremely flawed and we I mean that's a whole other rabbit hole but the the whole field of dietetics and nutritional Sciences was founded by the 7th Day Adventist Church in 1917 this is a fact this is a historical record people can look into the first textbook on uh nutrition and dietetics uh was written by the sth day Adventist I think 1925 Sally Norton actually talks about this so she has a degree and a MERS in uh nutrition from Cornell University ivy league university in America right and she's been a professional researcher and uh you know and academic for decades right and she was plant-based the whole time she like oh my God plant-based so great so great so great and she basically killed herself with oxalate poisoning she was she was in a wheelchair you know she was like in her 30s you know what I mean she was so sick and so you she you know was on a crusade about this because it it literally ruined her life and and she's seen it ruin so many other people's Liv And so she's she's written that book but she she is people oh you can't talk about this because you don't have a degree in nutrition I'm like thank God I don't have a degree in nutrition nutritional Sciences have been founded and indoctrinated by the sth Day Adventist Church since its founding because they founded it and they are still heavily involved in nutritional sciences and and teaching throughout the world the seventh day ADV fasinating yeah the Seventh Day Adventist Church is religiously anti- meat because they think that meat causes lustful feelings people who eat meat want to have sex more want to masturbate more what because they're healthier they have better hormon and but in 1800s they were just like well lust is a sin therefore meat is a sinful and they had their this prophetes uh who it's just funny to think of that as a prophetess she had a dream and in that dream God told her that we should not be eating meat meat is sinful for that reason and her Protege was a guy named Harvey Kellogg who grew up to be Dr Kellogg of Kellogg cereals and he was a very influential scientist in America very influential I think he was even a congressman at one point and he was he actually teamed up with Edward Benes oh did he mhm yeah you know who that is um father of propaganda yeah oh Jesus yeah he started the breakfast Revolution yeah yeah yeah and it was for that reason it was to try it was Kelloggs Kelloggs yeah Kellog cereal so so Kellogg cereal Kellogg cornflakes was first denied uh designed to to to meet that end to try to basically castrate you know aeric chemically castrate them and suppress their their natural urges to procreate because he just thought it was just so sinful and I think he bragged that he like he was married for decades he like never banged his wife he was just like oh that's great was just like I bet you she wasn't sticking to that sticking to that story hell confident from all the M hopefully hopefully she wasn't anyway and uh and that was the thing this guy this guy was was had big Hang-Ups on sex you know he this is he was the one who pushed through the the recommendation that that boys should be circumcised because this was better for their health in some reason no it was to make it more difficult for them to have have sex and to masturbate and then people figured out lube and that was the end of that but like but the idea was still there people were still circumcising their kids you know even though it didn't meet the end that that he wanted it to but that that was what that came from and he and he tried to push through these these dietary measures as well try to put all breakfast is the most important meal of the day um and it was is to try to get people to eat more of this crap in order to suppress their their natural hormones you know wild if you actually just think about this right like cornflakes is a guy trying to push C celibacy on me yeah yeah it's funny you know and and and it's and it's a guy who was a bit of an inventor and uh thought that Animas were great um and you know some some Animas can be good for certain reasons like coffee Animas actually seem to to be beneficial in some uh uh different not when you have KS don't do that no don't do that i' I've done that not fun it's no fun and so you know he had this machine that he just this is so gross you designed this machine that you basically stick this this enema tube up urectum and it it it would pump in like 60 or something what was it it was something like 20 gallons water in and out over the course of 60 seconds so like shooting it in yeah it was like shooting it in taking it out shooting in taking it out and he was reported to do this every day for his health and not for his his suppressed sexual urges or anything like that I'm sure and that dude was coming all over the floor so that's that's the first ever dildo machine that goes my that funny side note when I was when I was probably like 12 or 13 I my parents had a you know big library in the house and there was a there was a big encyclopedia was a medical encyclopedia of medical instruments and tools and things like that big bastard and these historical ones I was just sort of flipping through it because I'd always wanted to be a doctor and so everything medical was just sort of interest me so I'd opening up and sort of flipping through it wasn't actually looking for anything particular but then all of a sudden something caught my eye it sort of looked like these sort of like those back massagers like the big head and normal stick you sort of reach behind you and it had that sort of angled head um you could sort of reach back and get your back I was like oh that's interesting what's this about so I read the article and it was on the first uh vibrators like the vibrating sort of massage things and uh what is for swear to God true story people didn't look this up was people used to think that hysteria women would get hysterical right well well what is hysterical and hysterctomy right why do those have the same Roots right so they thought that hysteria was like a like a chemical or hormonal imbalance from the uterus they thought the uterus was just pumping out a whole bunch of crazy woman hormones and so and so they needed to they need to somehow stimulate the uterus and and make it calm down so they made them come yeah and so yeah so they they by by by uh you know digital manipulation they would they would you know the you talking digits yep really yep yeah so like a digital rectal examination that's uh finger up the bum and so this is this is actually what they were doing I I I I don't know for sure but I just have a feeling this may be where like the term Dr Feelgood comes from you know you know and uh [ __ ] and so you know some and so they just go in there and and I remember reading this they said honey I'm feeling Moody I'm going to the doctor or just be yeah exactly just be I guess bu like you know you need to go to a doctor just sort yourself out like yep I'll be back they're already out the door and um why'd you take the L and I mean I mean and this is like 80 years before like people like generally recognize the female orgasm was a thing yeah you know what I mean and so well it's just hysteria you know so these these women are not getting their needs met and they're just like this is [ __ ] and it's just like you just need to you need to go see the doctor whatever that's why women love doctors yeah just just just like a just like I see what you're doing just like a hereditary thing is just like pass down it's like no these are the good ones guys The Good Men yeah yeah yeah they look off to you yeah and so in the article they said that that the doctors might might take like an hour or more to like get a result and to cure the hysteria and the nurses were saying yeah is it behind closed doors I mean this is before like they had chaperon and things like that she's like I'll be back cancel my appointments you know and they're saying and the nurse were saying was like well no nurses should be doing this procedure because you know you know we we're women we we know the body better we can get we can get a result in a few minutes whereas like you know the the male doctors it takes longer and the doctor said did refuse that was like they were just like no absolutely not this is my job this a doctor's job you're not qualified for this so I'm on their team and so and so one all the women trying to take men's jobs over and yeah I think this is this is one that that was fought for making a stand on this one you know and under certain conditions something's just like you know what you you take this one I bet you would and um but yeah so one enterprising doctor just you know what this is just taking a long time we need to we need to do this faster and so they they invented the vibrator yeah and it was for that reason so it wasn't a back massager wow it was a you know it was a a lady massager and so that was the first vibrator was was to you know give these women an orgasms to to fix their hysteria and what I mean what a time to be alive yeah you know your a hysteria at home yeah ex well yeah and um you know that's so I saw that I was just like well I was like no way and I always stuck with me and so when I was in medical school I remember it sort of came up I was like well actually like this is what is [ __ ] that can't be true and I was just like look it up actually like a Wikipedia article on it too like yeah they're talking about it and they like holy [ __ ] this is real I like I'm telling you I studied this [ __ ] man yeah and it was it was so funny though yeah I mean bit of a distraction but it's just funny you know what we what we've done historically as people to try to fix different different problems that all of a sudden are just like yeah that wasn't that wasn't the problem we thought it was no no I think there's probably and looking into the future I feel like uh with like take crisper and stuff we're going to find out things that we had no idea and things that are going to seem like so Elementary like they probably seem so [ __ ] Advanced right now but they're going to seem so Elementary in say 10 to 15 years we're going to be like oh no we were just like targeting this little niche but it was a completely different web of yeah science that we would think of yeah and and there's a lot of that you know there's a lot of that that comes and I think I think we will you know and I think that um hopefully most people get on this understanding that that we knew for thousands of years that you need to eat meat that's what we're designed to eat that's where you get nutrition from and you know and and the idea I mean you know since I was a kid we were taught that humans are apex predators top of the food chain we hunted maybe hunter gatherers but really hunted and apex predators don't right top of the food chain they eat animals they you know great white sharks aren't eating kelp for roughage right Lions don't eat grass right apex predators eat animals they eat meat and that's what we were doing that's what we've been doing for millions of years maybe we eat some plants here and there certainly would use them medically uh when we needed to but generally we ate meat unless we were in a position that we couldn't get meat and then we had to eat something else and it's good that we were able to do that that's a survival U mechanism right we were able to survive you know it's not like you know you know cats and and wolves and things like that you know felines like lions like they really can't eat any plants they they will die and the people this Movement Like You Know vegan cat Movement Like get out of your mind and so you know and and same with with they like it man dude and I mean they're just they're just trying to they just have no respect for life is really what it is the most unethical thing that you can do is force an animal to like regulate to a different diet when it's you know for a fact you know that once you open that little can of tuna they go [ __ ] mental they go mental but it's probably hormetic probably them dying is hormetic oh yeah for sure yeah I mean that's the thing too you know I mean we're talking about lectin and beans like there's if you don't cook and prepare beans properly like we have to cook these things in very specific ways because the lectin can kill you um that's why sprouting has become a thing now yeah yeah it can be and you know that's like with when you ripen a a a fruit it decreases the amount of toxins in it so you have an avocado and a tree ripen it'll have about 50 milligrams of oxalates in it if you pick that thing green has over 200 right and the all the other all the other defense chemicals in there are you similarly raised right saline and tomatoes same thing right if there's green way more saline as toxins in there if it's Vine ripened then there's a lot less there's more in the skin because that's barrier protection so you take the skin off that's what people used to do they used to blanch it take the skin off take the seeds out because the seeds are the plants babies that's where it has a lot of toxins in it so they just ate the pulp but only when it was Vine ripen now we're picking all this this stuff green and rting it off the off the and there are studies showing that they don't detoxify if you do that wow and we're not taking we're not taking the skins off we're not taking the seeds out right so we're we're we're adding a lot a lot more toxins to our body that we didn't used to do and so one of the things that we would do is we' cook beans soak them in water for number of hours boil them that's that's an intensive process you have to do a lot of crap to do that and you can't just do that naturally right you can't just just like look at it and Flame it with your eyes no you need to like use chemical means uh to to boil that to cook that you don't need to cook meat you can eat raw meat it's totally fine steak tartar uh you know yeah and and sashimi things like that people I I eat a lot of raw meat or just very rare meat and um you know and so you know but we can eat raw meat we have the biological ability to eat raw meat we don't necessarily have the biological ability to eat a lot of raw plants and uh you know something we have to cook them prepare them or do something chemically to them like corn normally they would do something called nich talization which they would like soak it in lie for like 24 hours and and do a whole bunch of other things that would chemically extract some of the nutrients get some of the niin like what we're talking about with fiber those are that's glucose that's bound up in a way that we can't access because the plant does not want us to benefit from eating its body right it does that with a lot of other nutrients as well and so they're not bioavailable so it may have a lot of iron it may have a lot of you know vitamins but they're not bioavailable and that's one thing with nasin corn has a ton of nasin but it's not available to us yeah and that's why in meeso America they they would go put the corn through this process of nalization what does that consist of I I think it's lie I think they they soak it in in lie which is um uh you know base right so it's like sodium hydroxide I believe and so terrible for you it's yeah but but they soak this in the corn in that and then wash it off and things like that and that seems to break those bonds with the nin because it's bound up in a way the plant can use it but we can't use it yeah right because we don't have the biological ability to do it because we're not evolved to do it right so if you have to put something through a chemical process to extract the nutrients and detoxify it then well you know we're not designed to eat it probably shouldn't be eat it well yeah but but we're certainly not designed to eat it so the argument oh no no we're designed to eat this then why do we have to something through a chemical process obviously we can't we we don't and so there's actually a thing called pgra which is nice and deficiency which actually killed millions of people and we didn't know why and they figured out it was to do with corn because it was a very cheap thing to produce and to and so a lot of the poor people were eating just a buttload of corn and they were dying of niin deficiency and they and they thought it was like you know an infection or something like that but the the guy who they commissioned to say hey find out what infection this is he's like I don't think it's an infection I think this is something to do with corn I don't know what it is and he figured out that it was a vitamin deficiency and and the irony is is that corn has a ton of nin yeah it's just not bioavailable yeah also known as vitamin B3 right N I think so yeah yeah doesn't that sound way more healthy yeah right Pack full of vitamin B3 yeah and so yeah and and so yeah so the the idea you know that we're design to eat this stuff is is insane to me you we're saying we're apex predators top of the food chain that was never argued but people were saying well you don't want to eat fat you don't want to eat meat okay well fine we we've discounted that too that's been completely debunked that cholesterol does not cause heart disease it's actually fact does not cause heart disease it's actually really really important for you as it's an essential nutrient we need this we need to eat these things don't get them from plants and you know and then they were saying well ethically we don't really like hurting animals and all that sort of stuff hey look fine you know I mean I don't I don't like the thought of that either but when you're only growing crops you actually have to kill far more animals to grow those crops because you're destroying entire ecosystem you're you're you're you're plowing these you know uh Fields everything like that where animals live in and they're getting churned up and and chopped up and everything like that you know the Kangaroos and deer and pigs and things like that that come in to eat your crops they have to shoot them right they're pests there you know they have to sort of kill those things um you know dumping a bunch of chemicals and fertilizers that washes off in the rain gets in the water supply and chokes off and kills tons of fish and everything like that so there actually a huge ecological disaster growing crops right but that's that's one of the one of the drivers they say well you know we don't want to we don't want to hurt these animals and that was the argument for for decades hey you shouldn't eat that the Peta argument was that hey you shouldn't do this it's not morally correct to do this right and they do a lot of pretty immoral sort of things in their in their you know to to push their message but you know that's an aside but they never no one ever had the tarity to argue that no actually humans are herbivores actually just you just walking cows you know like two-legged cows and things like that it's it's like no one no one ever made that claim because that is strictly against the evidence but now they're starting to make that that argument and and and that's where it ties in with hormesis oh actually this you need this stuff this gives this hormetic effect it's like okay no there's a and first of all there's a difference between hormesis where like exercise where you push yourself and you sort of maybe damage your body a bit but then you give your chance your body a chance to recover and it does and you get stronger as a result of that you call that cycling right yeah and um and the thing is is that when you you know but there's a difference between that and tolerance right so you have a tolerance to alcohol you drink alcohol you build up a tolerance right and so when you drink alcohol after that well you've built up a defense towards it that's a hormetic effect right your body's built up stronger no it's built up stronger against alcohol yeah right and so it's not really helping you necessarily in other other ways and it's harming you in other ways so that's like okay well you can do a bench press and that's great and now you're getting stronger well you're getting stronger as far as a bench press is concerned yeah great okay that makes you stronger in other ways too maybe it has other benefits vascular benefits and stuff but if you if you do too much you blow out your shoulder well that's a net negative yeah right but with tolerance you I mean there's nothing hormetic about that you're just building up a tolerance against alcohol and there's there's no real other benefits in your body and there's a lot of d damage being caused to your body you know after years and decades we get all sorts of very serious illnesses from long-term alcohol abuse right is that that's hormetic now so good point you know and and so so the hormesis is they build up a resistance to alcohol okay well that's only beneficial if you're going to keep drinking alcohol but you're and even then you're not negating the harmful effects of alcohol you're just sort of reducing them a bit right and so that's not really the same thing and you know when they say oh well I bet you it's hormetic it's like okay well again there are like a million different toxins in in these things in beans just kidney beans who actually says and they're they're like crazy Pro plant but there's different people that work in the W and some of them are actually real scientists and there's a whole web page on the who's website going through all the different natural defense chemicals and toxins in foods that we eat on a daily basis and talking about if you don't prepare these things properly if you don't eat them in the proper proportion you can die and they are car they can be carcinogenic they can be mutogenic they can be directly toxic and cause malnutrition they can cause serious health adverse effects and even death in humans and livestock that is on their website and they talk about the only issue is the next page over will be like yeah but eat all these well you know and then at the bottom they just say youo but you know most people just eating a balanced diet it's you know it's not that hard but okay but what the hell is a balanced diet right so and they even say as little as five kidney beans that are that are not prepared properly can put you in the hospital and have put people in the hospital kidney beans kidney beans are a normal thing that normal people eat yeah I'm pretty sure I've got a can in the pantry and and most people would think of that as healthy oh yeah kidy be oh legumes oh they're so good for you no no they're not they're really not and uh and if you and you'll know about that if you don't prepare them properly and soak them and boil them and cook them in in certain ways and so you know these people have gone to the hospital because of that it okay so that's that's a hormetic hospitalization right I mean like what what what is hormetic about that you're getting so sick that you have to go to the hospital right and uh and there people that you know like cassava rout right so you go to the tropics you know people go to Indonesia you'll see like or southeast Asia you'll see those bags of chips like cassava chips right so cassava root is the number three calorie source for all the tropics okay and it's the number one calorie source for 500 million people in the world whoa right there are two kinds of cassava bitter cassava sweet cassava they both have cyanide bitter cassava has so much cyanide that it's very bitter and it can kill you with the amount of cyanide that it has whoa right and so it has to be specially prepared and if it's not prepared properly you can get you can die from from the amount of cyanide that's in there [ __ ] but even low-grade cyanide exposure is not hormetic it causes thyroid def thyroid dysfunction and neurological impairment right right and especially in people it seems to be mostly in people that are um protein deficient they're not getting enough protein but like who are we talking about we're talking about people in the tropics they're not eating that many animals well and then they're most a lot of them are impoverished and the reason that they're eating cassava and especially you know maybe getting cassava as their main nutrient source is because they're quite impoverished and so most people around the world are eating less than the minimum recommendation W recommendation right and we look at that recommendation it's like oh well that's that's something to shoot for I'm getting around there no no no that's a bare minimum Jesus and you're shooting for that you know it's like no this isn't this isn't a speed limit on the highway this is not like don't go here this high but don't go further it's just like no no no you are not allowed you should not go below this and most people looking at this for as a Target as a opposed to a bare minimum wow and so a lot of these people are going to be in that situation they are going to be protein deficient they are going to be nutritionally deprived they are going to be metabolically unwell and they have this stuff in their body is less able to take care of this is same with oxalates as well you know the the more metabolically unwell you are the harsher oxalates are going to be on your body your body's not going to be able to handle it that well and so you know people keep arguing that oh it's hortic hortic hortic okay which ones okay so cyanide is that hormetic at what level at what dose how much can you eat and put that in Practical terms how much cassava can I eat how much bitter cassava can I eat how much you know sweet cassava can I eat how many almonds can I eat because almonds have cyanide too bitter almonds are the inside of a of a peach Stone right it looks like an almond it's like it shriveled up almond that's called a bitter almond and that's used in like baking they extract the almond extract from that they put like marsipan things like that to get that really strong uh almondy taste that's cyanide yeah so it's you so much sign so you know one or two of those bitter uh bitter almonds can kill you damn now the thing is is that it it it it's and and you know this is a defense mechanism right because it's actually sequestered in in ways that actually not just sitting there with a whole bunch of cyanide in there's separate chemicals that when the plant is crushed it releases those two chemicals they bind together and they make cyanide and so that's how and there's a whole bunch of different different things like that like in um oh Christ it's it's it's the chemical in in broccoli that say it's just so good I'm just dropping yes exactly and oh this is so good for you it causes you know it's a you know causes this uh uh effect to bring up all these uh um you know antioxidants and things like that like yeah yeah right those things are responding to the sulfurane to try to clear it from your body all right so that's that's not good I mean maybe there's a there's an added effect bonus after that is it sticks around for a bit and maybe clears up some other things oh maybe you could cause that hormetic but no one's proven that you know your body is responding to this to try to clear this stuff away from your body because the stuff is toxic and it's so toxic that the broccoli doesn't keep it just floating around it's again in two different molecules and when it's crushed so when it's being eaten and murated by an animal it releases and those form the sulfurane to poison the animal that's eating that bite that's so interesting because you bite that bite and you chew that up and it releases s theophan right there in your mouth have you heard of um uh you know Dr Ronda Patrick Yeah Yeah my fitness she says when you cook broccoli the sulfurane dies out and that you should add mustard seeds to get more yeah so you know said that on the largest podcast in the world by the way yeah I know yeah so I I saw much of that on on Joe Rogan and look all due respect to her you know I mean it's like she I mean she's I I don't think she's um you know coming at this from like bad intents or anything like that no no no no but I think that that she's a bit misguided in some of these things I think you're correct in saying that I think this is this is a good example of of inside the Box thinking yeah the box is the you know the textbooks and all these sorts of things and it's just like this is this is this is how it is and you're you're just learning that and so you know um and it's just like well this is this is what I learned in my PhD therefore that's the only thing that could possibly be true spreading the science of the path that you've already taken yeah exactly and so you know Innovation and Discovery and you progress comes from outside of the box thinking thinking like okay well what if this isn't actually true yes or maybe there's something else that changes the story right and and you have to do that so her you know little dissertation on how bad you know why the carnivore died isn't a great idea uh you know just struck me in a number of different ways what was the most unic part so so the thing is you know some of the things she was saying was that um she's a big calories in calories out sort of person which is insane because I mean these these things are well I mean the the fact of the matter is is that these things you cannot you cannot you know uh uh reduce these things down to their caloric content right first of all calories or you burn something and you and you get out heat energy and that's not how we're not combustion engines we're not like putting in fuel and burning these things these are complex organic molecules that have complex or chemical interactions in your body mhm and so you know different amino acids have different interactions in your body it's not just like four four kilo calories per gram well that's all that is like no some glutamine some is carnitine some is all these alanine all these sorts of things they have different responses in your body and they trigger different genes and epigenetic effects in your body and and breaks down in a certain way too yeah yeah so you're getting different density of calories inside of the body of the breakdown of the food that you're eating in the first place yeah and I mean think about fructose fructose is is a carbohydrate what a sugar well four kilo calories per gram that's all that matters right well except that fructose is broken down the same way to the same byproducts as alcohol the other sugars don't do that right so that is a different thing yeah right and all the different fatty acids you know like well just fatty acids or just fatty acids and that's why you could argue that no canola oil is the same as beef Tallow like the hell it is you know is anybody arguing that those idiots yeah yeah oh my God I mean not maybe not all of them but I mean a lot of them are are saying oh no it's not that big a deal right I think there's enough evidence in the literature there's a ton but the problem is is there is there's is there's con conflicting data in the literature that's produced by the industry like industry research and one thing you can trust with industry research is that it will support the industry that that funded it uh because if it doesn't [ __ ] man well because if it doesn't support the industry it doesn't get published of course right and so they'll designing it a way to get the the desired results yeah and if it doesn't get the desired results they just won't publish it anel Keys did this he was an absolute bastard he he was bought and paid for by the sugar companies and uh and and falsified and uh falsified data and published fraudulent studies to make it appear as that cholesterol was causing heart disease when it was really sugar and tried to exonerate Sugar and say it was safe it was an empty calorie and a bunch of Harvard professors did the same thing and they were LDL yeah and one of those professors was named head of the USDA and he was the one who authored and published the 1977 USDA declaration said that cholesterol caused heart SE that was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association 2016 their actual contracts were in that we know what they got paid they got paid $6,500 which is equivalent of $50,000 today so they got a midsize sedan out of the deal and they they completely screwed the health of the world right anel Keys was one of these douchebags I absolutely hate him and he still alive no thank God but actually I'm unfortunately so we can't kill him you know so well you can't you can't well he can't he can't stand uh you know and and uh be held responsible for his actions I mean he was an absolute monster that's a you know I think he's probably responsible for millions and millions of deaths and certainly hundreds of millions of people getting sick that never needed to and uh and it really pisses me off and he did some studies where he actually okay we'll do an intervention and we'll reduce the amount of LDL cholesterol and cholesterol and putting you know unsaturated fats and you know exchange that out and they found that oh that's funny we reduce LDL cholesterol and um heart disease went up heart attacks went up cardiovascular deaths went up and so what did they do they responsibly publish that and go like Gosh guys it looks like this I was wrong about this no they buried the study oh yeah and they buried it for decades it's only been recently uncovered and there was a number of studies some was like you know buried for like 17 years some buried for like 40 years and so you know some of these things were only came out in the last 10 years but there have been large randomized control trials showing that if you reduce LDL cholesterol that it doesn't improve health and in fact some cases it actually makes things worse and causes more heart attack strokes and death and um that's with tens of thousands of people cuz they just carryer proteins right yeah that's right and we make them they're important and you can damage them yeah you know you can damage them with high blood sugar with seed oils and other oxidative stressors but that's not the cholesterol causing the problem that's you damaging your body and it damages the cholesterol I think of it more as the smoke and not the fire as an indicator of damage and harm to your body just like hba1c is is a marker of your metabolic health and your sugar control uh over the course of three months is is how we you know test diabetics and things like that to see how good their blood sugar control is and in fact even with the damaged cholesterol so there's a ton of studies that actually show no correlation literally no correlation between higher LDL cholesterol and heart disease in fact some show an inverse correlation so higher LDL cholesterol the lower your heart disease and heart attack rate is and uh saturated fat the journal American College of Cardiology actually published in 2020 a very large review looking at all the major met uh recent meta analyses and all the best evidence going back decades and they they showed that saturated fat there was no upper limit safe upper limit on the amount of saturated fat you could eat you just eat as much as you want had no correlation with heart disease and in fact they found an inverse correlation with stroke I believe that so more the more saturated fat you eat the lower your stroke risk is wow the low less saturated fat you eat the more your higher your stroke rate is and so you know and so a lot of these studies a lot of these big studies and meta analyses and randomized control trials show that LDL cholesterol is actually good for you it's actually beneficial for you and and can be harmful if you reduce it right and people with um you know elderly people over the age of 65 the higher LDL cholesterol that they have the longer they live the healthier they live and the Lesser less chance they have of getting dementia Alzheimer's and uh and less uh less likely they are to go to a nursing home right so and it's just directly correlated with longevity yeah right and so this is just not what we've been told that it was and so um I sort of lost where where I started with that but like it was a bit of a riff but yeah you know um but the thing is is that uh that is wild though man yeah but but there mean so many just falsehoods perpetrated on the world and it was for money you know the sugar companies trying to protect their interest and they paid off these researchers to do that for them do you think it's still happening do you think that Jesus Christ yes no more so more so now more journals are like pushing Publications through yeah just to get certain things that oh like Pharmaceuticals yeah well I mean think about that think about new FDA the USDA the CDC you know people that that work there high up in those institutions they all end up getting very cushy job jobs in uh in the in the private sector uh for these for these uh companies and you know um they they've already they've already sort of invaded Academia decades ago literally I mean like nearly hundred years ago and those large academics are the ones getting these government appointed positions right and so they they have these sleeper agents in there you know and that was the thing one of those was Harvard professors that they paid off was named head of the USDA he was the one who said that cholesterol causes heart disease stop eating it right and so that changed the dynamic of the world right and he was bought and paid for we know that we know that this was fraudulent not just false not just a incorrect but fraud bought and paid for fraud we have hard evidence of that that is not up for discussion that is a matter of record it's it's the the thing is uh appointed liability though right it's like can they be made liable for these things that they oh God I hope so I mean the thing is is that it's so far away I it's all different people now you know they probably changed hands and changed the company's names and things like that so many times over who knows but you know I mean the people if they defrauded people and they're still alive I think they should be criminally prosecuted for sure um I think a lot of them are dead now unfortunately so we can't like you know kill them ourselves but like you know but it's it's it's you know I think it I think it's probably worse now because they know they can get away with it yeah and they know they can cover it up and so the funniest done it before so I know how you remember that you remember the uh the tobacco documents you know the the tobacco companies for decades they were saying oh no no no there's no research that says that tobacco causes heart disease or is addictive or we have this study and this research that shows that go ahead right and then you know sort of 40 years into it someone leaked out a whole bunch of documents and internal memos showing they knew damn well that this stuff was uh addictive and carcinogenic and and harmful and then they they were just doctoring up a whole bunch of crap and paying off a bunch of you know corrupt bastards to to do it and uh and so they got they got fined like hundreds of millions of dollars or maybe even billions I think it was billion hundreds of billions of dollars anyway but a load of money and but they still operating they're still operating and guess what they did right after that they bought all the major food distributors oh so so all of the the tobacco companies are running all the processed food companies now right and they know how to do things and they know how to do this [ __ ] and so you know we have we have the sugar documents now those were published in in jamama in 2016 so that's a matter of record as well but it has not stopped there they are they are practiced at it and they're and they're better at it now because they know how not to get caught now because they've made their mistakes and now they're going to cover them up more and so and now they now they've just they're just going to buy off more politicians and things like that if they have to so right now Coca-Cola just Coca-Cola mhm spends 11 times the amount of money on nutritional research than the NIH no just Coca-Cola so where do you think those studies are pointing they're pointing towards sugar being safe sugar being fine oh actually you lose weight eating more drinking more sugar okay no yeah you know and um you know so but that's the thing it muddies the water and so then you look at this you have all these studies that say well no sugar is really bad fructose is really bad well all these ones are say it's not that bad at all well I found this study well you can get a study that says anything because there's a lot of invested interest out there and so you can sort of get anything published almost and then you say well look we got 30 studies saying it's bad for you 30 studies saying it's good for you just it's just just awesome I guess we just don't know I guess we just need to do more work and then so that favors the industry because you know like well I guess we shouldn't change anything because we don't have enough information yet well no you have 30 studies that show very clearly this [ __ ] is bad for you and then you have these ones over here we have one crisp one though yeah and so you know it's it's um you know and so that's why they do it they try to muddy the Waters of course and so that's why you have these these online debates or just normal debates no one does real debates anymore but um you know someone making a video and attack oh well I found somebody did like a response video to um a video I did and that I I presented at a medical conference just talking about all the different toxins and plants and things like that and uh and so was this this vegan guy um who did that and he just you know he just cherry-picked out he just tried to find any study that sort of went counter to what I was saying you ignoring the 50 other studies and articles that absolutely corresponded with exactly what I was saying and you know just like the textbooks that my information had come out of you know it's oh well you know there's this thing on on oxy oh look at this and like you know and and I talked about fiic acid and how this can you know bind nutrients and we don't have the physiology to break these things apart and digest them and absorb them he's like oh well look at this and they said that some of these um uh you know microbes of the microbiome they can break it down well that's wrong it's like dude that's in the colon man so they get down to the colon so if you have the bacteria requisite it's in the let the gorillas yeah exactly yeah and so then you eat this stuff it gets in the colon you know and it breaks the stuff down but then you don't absorb it in the colon you have to absorb it in the small intestine and so that's useless we don't have the physiology and even he said it it was microbiome it was bacteria that did that we don't do that right so it can't get in our body we can't absorb it and then utilize that right so what I said still stands but he he would just try to find these these little weird things and one of things I was you was talking about you know potato potatoes and things like that and how um you know these things have you know more salony depending on if they get exposed to light they can get UV light can make them turn green so people sometimes get taught I was certainly taught as a kid you have to keep potatoes in a in a cold dark place cold dry dark place and and that was because if they got exposed to light they turned green they were poison you can't you can't eat them they they went bad unless they say oh they're bad if you do that well what does that mean that means they're poisonous and they can kill you and people actually still die from eating pot when they don't they don't follow I mean potatoes right but if they green they they can be deadly wow and if they start growing a root yeah that can kill you right yeah and so you have to cut the whole eye out or you just throw them out oh wow right because they're bad what does that bad mean it means they're poisonous they're deadly poisonous they're already poisonous but they're poisonous over decades as opposed to acutely poisonous they'll kill you that day right and they will if they get into that point so you know I'm I just pointed out that fact that anyone can look up and he was just like oh yeah potatoes okay and I was saying you know you should peel these things because that's where the barrier protection that's where most of these things are and that's what we used to do we used to peel potatoes always and we used to fine ripen tomatoes blanch them take the skin off and take the seeds out for hundreds of years and then people like oh no that's where all the nutrients are yeah that's where all the poison is too if you ever went over someone's house and they had like potato mash or something like that and I just punch them and they had the skins in there still You' be like what what's wrong with you man well but but a lot of people do right that's where the nutrients is man yeah that's it that's it the [ __ ] you talking about yeah but it's also where the poison is yeah exactly right and and whether or not the nutrients are in there I mean that's just something that someone's thrown out there maybe maybe not though because you know that's just something that people people do this they they hear something and because it fits their narrative well be they yeah exactly and and it and because it fits their narrative and what they want to believe they don't ask for any evidence of it so so there's no evidence either provided or asked for so they just look at that and go oh okay great you know on my on my podcast on my YouTube channel things like that like I put links for things like I want people to know where I'm getting this from and maybe they look at and they look like yeah you know what I I got a different story out of what what you wrote there fine that's great it's up for interpretation but that's what I got out of these sorts of things and and and so I I try to show my work you know that's what you do in school you know it's like how'd you get the answer show your work don't just say like oh 86 you got it off of Jenny's paper you know write out how you got there yeah so that people that make sure you're not just guing the common people aren't looking for standard information until things go wrong though that too yeah you know then until you're unhealthy you're looking for any kind of source of like Savior and but like when you're just like you know mashed potatoes skinn in skin out nobody's really given a [ __ ] until it all goes to to the [ __ ] Wolves yeah and so you know they're just say oh well that's where the nutrients are okay great I have no reason not to believe that but you never ask like oh really where where did you get that from I always ask and always like oh what about when someone says this well did they prove that that was the case like did they show any evidence did they show you a study they show no they just said it okay ask them where they're getting it from yeah even even doctors and things like that you know people say well my doctor says that you know I have to do X Y and Z for these reasons like okay ask him what he's basing that on ask him what studies ask him what research ask him can you show him yeah and uh they can't because they don't you know it's just the stuff is made up some of this stuff and so you know um you know I was I was pointing that out about potatoes and this guy in order to counter me trotted out this I guess the only thing you could find was a study that said uh if you're eating a standard you know uh food pyramid diet oh God and your carbohydrates are coming from potatoes or they're coming from grain what were they yeah some sort of GRA like bread or something like that um the best kind something anyway so so another carb Source right yeah and you're saying this study showed that actually the group that was eating just the food pyramid stuff was eating potatoes instead of like you know what bread or something like that uh well that that one was better I was like yeah okay so that that proves that potatoes aren't don't have any salonin in them you idiot you know I mean like like okay try eating those on their own and only eating those cooking them or and compare that to someone who only eats meat and actually eats what they're supposed to eat or maybe eating meat and potatoes instead of just meat yeah you know that that would show you some information that might be useful in this conversation but like what you showed was that potatoes are better than the alternative carb Source like I don't care that's not what we asked you know and and it's again you know again with this this um you know hormetic thing they don't ask for any information they don't ask for any proof they don't provide any either they just they just want to be made right that's it and they and they just say and it's just good enough and it sounds good enough oh okay hormesis okay but again there's a million different chemicals which and and there's thousands in every different every different plant that we eat yeah which one of those are hormetic at what level at what dose how do you know you're getting that dose you know and how do you know how much is too much so the idea of hormesis is too much is is bad yeah so you have this this grace period now not everything that's bad for you has a hormetic dose there's some things that are only bad you know so you know you have to be very clear and distinct and also if you're talking about hormesis you're talking about something that is potentially bad and so over a certain amount it is bad so you need to know what that level is and so they're not doing that they're just saying yeah just eat plants whatever okay that's not very helpful yeah you know because you're not saying which plants at what dose just eat this variable plants yeah variable plants with variable amount of oxalates variable amount of of many different things so if you're just eating a whole bunch of spinach oh spinach is good for you people eat more spinach do better um okay compared to what you know because people just eat more spinach than compared to a processed food diet maybe maybe not depends on how much how much spinach they're eating right because you know they you can get people that get serious oxalate poisoning from eating a whole bunch of spinach and and and you know Sally Norton was actually saying she's like I'd rather see someone on a processed food diet than a high oxalate diet yeah right because High oxalates can destroy your life it's worse than sugar it's worse than than the seedles to to her you know that that's what she was saying and she was saying that this was this she would rather see someone on a processed food diet than a high oxalate plant-based diet right because it because oxalates are that toxic wow and I mean and she's speaking from experience this it literally ruined her life and she was like debilitated and crippled throughout college and her her 20s and 30s I mean she was she was literally like crippled and she um you know was very very very very sick that's some scary [ __ ] man yeah and she had a master's degree in nutrition from an Ivy League College what the [ __ ] you know so she this I mean she she was like she was always worried about you know eating right and all that sort of thing which is why she got this degree right she's like this is what I want to study I'm all into this there eating plant-based all blah blah blah blah blah it was killing her it was actually killing her man and so you know I feel like that's um kind of like the standard thing that's happening at the moment is we get so much information on like these different things like just because it's a good color doesn't mean it's healthy no and what does that mean you we want a wide eat the rainbow it's like okay so eat Skittles you know taste Taste the rainbow right so you know I mean that I mean what a what a silly thing to say because there a lot of different things that can cause you know plant to be yellow yeah do we need yellow we just need the color yellow you know or you know or do we need certain nutrients that sometimes display as yellow but maybe don't in other plants and maybe the yellow in this plant is not the same as the yellow in that plant and that yellow is actually not something we need why is the Great of photosynthesis have anything to do with it yeah and and that's another one I was so funny someone I there was there was a couple weeks where people were doing this and it sort of died out because it was absurd but people were asking me it's like okay but if you don't eat plants where do you get your chlorophyll from like um do you need chlorophyll it's chlorophyll yeah and it was just like and and they were like well but but don't but don't you need that I'm like says who yeah and they're like what chlorophyll is bro and so you know like but how do you get chlorophyll like you need chlorophyll I'm like but do you though yeah you know it's like who says we need chlorophyll and what's the evidence for that yeah and then they go like damn it I I don't know and they go look around they're like I can't I can't find anything I'm like yeah you don't need chlorophyll we're not making indigenous chlorophyll man yeah you absolutely don't need chlorophyll you know I mean maybe there's some things in chlorophyll that might be good for you but but that's like with any any cell of course right you know there there are things in living organisms that are good for other living organisms that's why living organisms eat other living organisms right not all all things can get energy from the Sun you know they're they're heterotrophs we're heterotrophs all animals are heterotrophs all animals have to feed on other life yes be that plant animal or so on right and so you know that uh that's just that's just that's just the laws the laws of nature you know you have to eat something and um so you're going to get nutrients out of these things but you're also going to get the bad with the good yes and a lot of those good things are sequestered in ways that we can't access they're not bioavailable and you know but there's nothing in plants that we have to have that we cannot get from meat but there are a number of things in meat that we have to have that we cannot get from plants or fungus or any other form of life we have to get it from meat very well said and so to me when we're talking about definitions of things well well humans are omnivores well in the sense that we can eat more plants relatively safely than other animals that are more sensitive like Felines and canines who like felines really can't handle basically any plants they will all kill them they're all inedible mostly inedible to to Felines and Canan I mean you you give a dog chocolate and it dies right yeah so I mean that's because that is toxic to a dog or like night shades tomatoes and things like that you or or the tomato plant the leaves especially very toxic to dogs and there are a number of different plants that won't kill us that will kill a dog that will kill a cat hey everyone if you need a little extra help getting started on a carnivore diet and my online resources that I have for free aren't enough for you you can go to www.how carnivore decom and sign up for a 30-day carnivore challenge where you'll have online Resources Group support weekly Zoom meetings as well as the ability to chat live with myself Simon Lewis and the others in the challenge who can help you and support you and give you extra advice and help you along the way so if that sounds like something that would be beneficial to you then please go to how carnivore decom and sign up all right thanks guys we'll see you there so the argument is like just because we can right doesn't mean it's optimal that's it and that's exactly where I'm coming from is is the optimization right and that's again comes back to the the point that there are no two animals of the same species no two members of the same species that have different optimal Di now there are different members of the same species like in humans that are better or less equipped to eat suboptimal food so like people of European descent like yourself and myself we do better with grains and cultivated plants and crops than the native Australians than the Native Americans and even even subsaharan Africans yes things like that they didn't have cultivation uh of crops as long as other people even exposure to alcohol different yes absolutely yeah that and so you know that's going to that's going to be a difference but those are all suboptimal things those are all survival foods and maybe that gives an advantage you know you're you're stuck in a in a castle and you're being besieged for three years and you can't grow food but you have buttload of grain in the in the stores and you're just okay we survive you can survive on it yeah but that doesn't mean that you're living optimally and that that would give us a survival Advantage absolutely you know and like you know a big cat like l or something like that if it doesn't get a kill it's going to die yeah you know it ain't eating the Grain in the you know but we we know what we can eat yeah you know and so we can eat other things as well so we don't get a kill we can still survive and that obviously is a survival Advantage but that does not mean that's optimal yes and so if you say oh we're omnivores because we can eat these things okay well we can eat a lot of things that we definitely don't eat we we get we can get essential nutrients and minerals M and vitamins uh like zinc copper iron and uh and magnesium from eating dirt right and like pregnant women who are like so anemic or so iron deficient probably because on a plant-based diet they go out and they get what's called Pika which is they they just eat things that are not food and they so they'll eat dirt your dirt just tastes I they have to eat they just feel compelled to eat dirt and they eat it compulsively and so you know that's that's uh that's not food you know just because we can get nutrients out of dirt and we get you know calories do we have you have to have calories right so you get those from a can of Coca-Cola right so we can eat dirt and Coca-Cola and take a multivitamin that's not food really like my Di and so you know but that's the thing you know so so just because we can extract nutrients out of dirt does not make us dir ofor yeah right and so you know I women by that now and so I just I just don't I just you know I I think it just depends on your your definition of terms to me omnivore means that you either not only just you can eat these things because cats can eat some grains and things like that dogs can eat some of these plant-based crap and that's what's in the kibble and that's what's making them more sick and dying younger um same with cats but you know just because they can do that does not make them omnivores now cats can do that but they're still termed obligate carnivores because there are very few plants that they can eat safely and they really do need to eat meat they need to get those nutrients from meat well I would consider us in the same category because you know what I think of as an actual obligate omnivore is someone something who has to eat some plants because they there's nutrients they have to get from plants and they have to eat meat because there's nutrients and meat they have to get so they have to eat both or they can get equal nutrition from either we do not fit in either of those two categories and so if I think if you're if you're thinking of a strict definition of what an omnivore is or what an obligate omnivore is someone who has to eat bug have very care with those definition and so think because you have to eat meat you can't get away from it you have to eat meat there are nutrients there that you have to have essential and there's nothing in plants that you have to have that you can't already get from meat yes we are obligated to eat meat we are we don't do well on Plants we're not optimized on Plants so I think that call that that makes us obligate carnivores yes right and so you know that's just my opinion on it anyway dude that was a lot of information sorry that was no it was really really good um yeah I I I wholeheartedly agree that when it came down to me doing the uh Carnival diet the benefits definitely outweighed me going back to a regular diet MH and I when I was thinking about how my body reacted after going back onto a regular diet it was not worth it right it was worth staying on the Carnival now let me just tell you I didn't finish um what happened so um they put me on immunosuppressants Jesus to stop my corticosteroids to stop my immune system attacking itself it wasn't that okay it wasn't that they missed an infection ah dude and they gave you an immun supressant yes fun so that that so my health just went Jesus and then I ended up getting rushed into the hospital for surgery like two weeks ago oh my God I'm sorry dude no no no it's good it's good cuz I was like I [ __ ] told you yeah and like I I did what you you said to do like ask your doctor why why are you doing this yeah and I did and he couldn't give me an answer and I was like I feel like I couldn't eat anything but bone broth like I literally was reacting to everything like my stomach would feel bad just on steak I think it was because of that reactive thing that you were talking about so I was just like okay I'm going to figure this out and then when I got rushed in to the hospital for the infection and that gets cleared out I'm good again I don't react to anything but now I'm going back to Carnival good yeah yeah yeah I have to well you know it's I well I'm really sorry that happened I mean that's a big Miss um yeah that's that's pretty nasty I was going to say um you with the Crohn's issues you know putting people on predice loan like cortical steroids that's what I'm on yeah there there was a uh there was a study that actually looked at putting people with crohn's disease on if people don't know that's an inflammatory bowel disease that uh you know affects any part of the of the intestinal or the Alum alary tract from the lips down to the anus and it causes huge ulcerations damage and it's very painful and very uncomfortable and can cause other sorts of issues around the body and some people can have you know bloody diarrhea 20 30 times a day and it's really nasty and they gete yeah and uh and they can get you know you yeah it's very horrible to deal with and there was a study that looked at putting people on Elemental diet which is just Pure Nutrients and and nothing else um and versus pricone putting them on these cortical steroids in America we use prazone um same sort of action mhm and they found that the people on an elemental diet just getting the nutrients that was actually that got them into remission faster and better than the pris alone or prisone right so just eliminating out this crap in your diet was better than the steroids yeah right so what does that mean that means there's something in that food that's causing that right that's kicking that off there was another study it was a controll trial that looked at people just eliminating carbohydrates and fiber from their diet again with crohn's disease and they found that the group that took away fiber and carbohydrates so a ketogenic diet with no fiber MH that they stayed in remission on average 51 months right so over four years damn man without medications [ __ ] and the group that didn't uh remove carbohydrates and fiber stayed in remission on average zero months wow big difference right so you know that what is that saying that's saying something in the carbs in the fiber maybe one of each or both um or you know one of them or both that is causing this to get worse right is precipitating this this autoimmune attack on your body and you know people talk about oh fiber is so good for you ask anyone with crohn's or also of colitis what fiber does to them absolutely tears them up exactly it's not good for you uh in fact the only thing that we found there was a large study with over 2,000 patients did colonoscopies on all these patients and and diagnosed diverticular disease so it's out pouching failure of the of the distal colon and this can become infected very very serious you can get that re have big problems people die from this m and they found the only things that correlated with higher levels of diverticulosis were first of all age which we always know in in medical school you're taught uh after the age of 50 your age is the percent RI of percent likelihood that you'll get diverticulosis right so 50 is 50% 85 is 85% yeah and so but they found that uh age aside the only things that correlated with uh your risk of getting reticulosis was higher fiber intake mhm and more bowel motions a week so so namely more than two bowel motions a day or really more than 15 bow motions a week wow so averaging more than two a day right constipation was not one of them really meat was not one of them fat was not one of them Jesus right only fiber and and uh increased bow Mo motions a day more than 15 per week and they were actually strongly correlated with them and so you know saying saying that oh well well fiber so good for your gut like based on what you know because based on the ACT on actual studies with with with actual people and actual patients and actual outcomes it's worse right you're getting diverticulosis you're getting Crohn's you're kicking off ulcer citis there was an Interventional trial I think it's is really the only one that they've done with fiber only looking at fiber as as a as a specific variable they had four groups all these people were symptomatic they had had gut GI issu stomach upset you know pain gas bloating things like that so they're already symptomatic right so they took all these people they're all eating a certain amount of fiber and they said okay we'll split you up into four groups one will you know just be the control group you just keep eating exactly what you're eating keep eating the same amount of fiber that you're eating and then the and then one group increase the amount of fiber that you're eating one group decrease the amount of fiber that you're eating one group eliminate the fiber right small study about like like 60 something patients they found the exact opposite of what you'd expect uh from these people pushing fiber and um as you can imagine and yeah so the people that ate more fiber uh actually got worse people who stayed the same stayed the same people who ate less fiber got better people who eliminated fiber completely resolved their symptoms every one of them right and um you know and then you have the the Crohn's patients you eat fiber you get worse you eliminate fiber you stay in remission and and removing carbohydrates as well so some people will argue well that's you're you're changing two variables you don't know which variable is which fair enough but you know you know it's it's down to two variables you know and and quite a lot of carbohydrates come with fiber do you know what the first thing they offered me after they gave me the uh the diagnosis in the hospital what sandwiches yeah y they're like we have whole grain oh Jesus Christ man and did talked to you about about resting the bow no they gave me a um a Dr AB diet which was um it was like bread uh rice it's just pretty much a list of grains to eat and I was just like I don't think this would help me so I I just jumped online and did some like formidable studies on like um bone broth and things that like most people don't react to yeah and yeah kind of what's funny though because you know when I was on my my general surgery rotations like it was we we put people on a on a low residue diet all the time low residue what does that mean that means something that's not causing a lot of things to have to be excreted right so fiber is a number one on that because you cannot break it down you cannot get nutrition from it it's coming out you put it in your mouth it's coming out your ass like that's it that's that's what's happening usually the same weight yeah yeah exactly yeah and um you know it so you don't want that you want to the bowel you don't want the bowel to work so hard you don't want bunch of stuff coming through and having to move it and parasal it through you don't want that and so they put the people on a on a low to no fiber diet in order to rest the bowel but I thought fiber was good for you it's supposed to benefit the bowel right so wouldn't that be helpful wouldn't that be like hey you have you have a bowel issue you need to eat a lot of fiber because fiber is really good for your gut it's going to help your gut heal everything out yeah and and and it helps you it's good for you but it's not actually you know so when we actually have a problem you know the medical community actually well understands the fact that fiber is actually contraindicated and then you know you take people off fiber and then as soon as they're better okay know get on a high fiber diet you know wait wait what you know like why that's just revers all the stuff that you've just been through yeah and so you know it it it's very funny um and but that's some of the things like um you know talking about Ronda Patrick some of the things that like I just think that that we're just not not seeing clearly right because you know with Ronda Patrick she talks about like the calories in calories out and say well when people are on a carnivore diet like any sort of Elimination Diet when they're sort of eliminating out a whole bunch of things they tend to eat less over time yeah and so that's all that is that's why they're losing weight it's just calories in calories out well first of all she never proved that she never actually showed a direct relationship between that but also you know she's missing the most significant point which is people are naturally regulating their caloric intake on a carnivore diet they're naturally it's too satiating well that's it it's just like this is how much I want it tastes good when my body wants it and then it stops tasting good yeah and that's your body saying yep we've had enough like every single animal on earth M they know how much to eat and they know when to stop and I've never seen a fat giraffe I've never seen a fat lion I've never seen a fat zebra people say oh that's because they're running out in the wild all the day not in the zoo yeah true they live in a box the size of this room it's the definition of a sedentary lifestyle and yet they're ripped they look like they're on steroids right why is that because they're eating what they're supposed to eat yes right and they know how to and you know obviously they're they're being given a certain amount but I've never had a steak and it was moish you know what I'm saying like when the first bite for sure yeah but by the end of that steak if it's a decent size rubby you know you're like I'm done can't do it I can't do it anymore yeah yeah and and that's it right because you the difference between positive feedback from something that's good for you like meat something that's bad for you like drugs that are addictive like sugar is that if it's something good for you that positive feedback lessens MH right so the less your body wants it the less that positive feedback is right and it gets to a point you don't get any positive feedback and you just go like I'm not really enjoying this you can force yourself and I have that patients that they're just used to eating more and they're like I hate this because I have to it takes me two hours to finish a meal it's like no you know like did you hate it the whole time or did it always taste bad or at the beginning did it taste good like well yeah at the beginning it tasted really good but I got halfway through through the meal and I was just say just tasted horrible I had to took 2 hours to finish the rest of it it's like to finish it it's like no no you were finished when it stopped tasting good yeah you know that was your body saying hey you don't don't eat anymore and it was screaming at you don't eat and that's why I say eat as much as you want to eat right but you clearly didn't want to eat it because you're saying I didn't want to do that I hate it right then don't don't do it then don't do it eat what eat what tasted good and then stop and uh but with drugs that positive feedback is always there it keeps coming back comes stronger the more you do it the more you want to do it things like that so that's how you know that that positive feedback uh okay and um and so you know Dr Patrick didn't didn't catch that which I think is a big miss you know I think that that's a very important point that we are naturally uh able to regulate the amount of nutrients coming in our body which you would expect if this is our natural biologically appropriate diet right we should have physiological so functions yes and and and signals that say like hey this is it this is all we need or we need more of this or we need less of this we need more of this other nutrient like women who eat dirt because they're so iron deficient and anemic that their baby's going to die and so they're like you need to get this in you now and all of a sudden dirt tastes amazing because of the iron content right and so and so they eat it and uh and she had had a number of other points that I think that um really miss the mark well you know I mean look she's she's you know defending her position and she's she's you know allowed to but I just I didn't I didn't find her argument is very compelling I found that there were there were very uh straightforward uh answers and arguments and counters to what she had to say but also like having a variable diet for that long say you have been on it for well how old is she 30 35 40 I think she's in her 40s yeah something like that 40s 50s maybe I don't know if you've been on like a variable diet of your whole life and then learned into that as well like really like you learned so much about it that you went down a scientific is she an MD no PhD PhD she got a PhD in this [ __ ] mhm you know she wants to solidify the th those arguments and she will do that at every cost and I think you know she has a right to do that obviously but yeah um whether it's better for Humanity to be professing these things without questioning I'm not sure well I think I think you always need to question them and I think that's why you know you get you get people on as a debate as as as friendly people used to actually debate and they were friends and they just disagreed and they just said no we're going to do this but now it's just like if you disagree with someone you know it's like a personal front you know and it's it's like a fight and it's really annoying that that's the case and and people get so defensive of their position you know that they they don't actually uh they don't only they don't think that you are in error but in sin because you don't agree with them you are a bad person you are morally bankrupt that's the issue though with being married to your ideas right if if you can't be manipulated or not even manipulated if you can't be malleable with your ideas and say look I could be wrong in this instant right now and I'm open to new information coming in people aren't like that these days they're like oh I have a strong argument and I'm going to stick by it and if they break my argument this is going to be a completely different set of uh circumstances here and I'm going to take it to heart rather than just see it as a debate yeah and unfortunately we sort of in that time where things are so hyperpolarized that you can't actually have a disagreement but I think that's one of the one of the a good working definition of being open-minded is understanding the fact that two people can look at the same information and honestly and intelligently come to different conclusions yes you know because they have different information that they're that they are influencing them in certain ways and they have just different brains in their heads yeah and they say they look at that and they be like well no I don't think that that's the case because of X Y and Z and the person well I think it is the case because of b c and d yeah and and that's fine and you but you get to discuss that and you can talk about it and you can do that in a very fruitful manner where where where everyone can benefit and and maybe you convince someone maybe they convince you and you both uh improve but you know the people watching they go like you know I really found that very convincing you know this is why we had political debates and things like that now they're just they're just mudslinging events you know but they actually used to be real things you know where they would debate for hours on end in open public Arenas yeah I agree they were they were fascinating back then but now it's you know 3 minute audible C it's just sound bites that's that's all they want and you with I mean you look back at the uh Abraham Lincoln uh presidential yeah it was like it was like first guy had um an hour yeah an hour a long time the second guy got an hour and a half MH and then the first guy got another half hour to reut the first the the other guy and so it and people were alert for that that wasn't like a Tik Tok video you swipe up no they were there for the whole thing they were there for it yeah and um you know and then like with jonath Kennedy when he was then president uh well he he debated with Nixon that was actually kind of interesting because that was the first televised presidential debate and he was you know very handsome and Charming guy yeah uh Nixon was not and you know he's all sweaty and weird yeah but he blew everyone's minds and then they blew his mind and oh Jesus and um had to do it and uh and so but he was revolutionary though yeah but but it was funny though because the people who listen to the debates on the radio thought that Nixon won the debate yeah the people who watched it on television thought Kennedy won the debate because they were more impressed by his his his his image St yeah and um and they didn't they thought Nixon was all sweaty and weird and all that sort of stuff so it's it's quite an interesting thing but JFK when he was president there was a guy who was you know so JFK was a Democrat and uh one of his best friends was a guy named Barry Goldwater who is the senator from Arizona and he was a Republican and he was a Libertarian and he thought that you know we should have these free market ideals and then less government intervention and things like that and you know to be fair you know JFK uh you know was a a very small government compared to the Democrats now you know and that's what Ronald rean said he was a Democrat his whole life in fact he was so far to the left that the FBI was investigating him for for communist ties and things like that Jes and so and then he became you know very very um you know libertarian sort of person and he said like oh and he got vilified when he when he sort of went to the Republican party and he said hey I didn't leave the Democratic party the Democratic party left me I haven't changed my views you know but you guys have kept moving and kept moving I've stayed right here and um and so the the party of JFK is very different one than uh is is alive today but Barry Goldwater and he were very good friends they were buddies and you know and uh you know their family's vacation together and things like that and they would talk about like because Barry goldw was going to run against um JFK in his for his re-election and he was and they were talking about it and they were like smiling about it like I can't wait for the debates you know I really I really can't wait to get in there and talk about these things and really you know come to grips with these issues and JK was like yeah this is going to be great this is going to be really good and then he died you you know he got he got assassinated and then lynon Johnson took over wasn't that Barry Goldwater tied in with the CIA have you heard about that well like that the assassination the CIA sort of I haven't I I don't know too much about that but but I do know that any yeah um but no I don't I don't know about that with Barry Goldwater I mean I have heard weird things about the the CIA and how like you he was JFK was actually looking to like you he he made a speech he wanted to pull it all down yeah he made a speech saying he was gon to break it apart into a thousand pieces and Scatter it to the winds and then all of a sudden he dies and you know I mean the guy who who killed him was a was you know he was a staunch you know uh a communist Hawk he didn't he did not like communism he was he very much against the USSR and the communist countries and he um uh you know the guy who was it Lee Harvey Oswald um who you know for for all intents and purposes you know said to assassinate him um then gets assassinated um he got shot right I don't remember what happened to Le shot and then it was um his killer inside of the prison got acid to the gills during MK Ultra Jesus yeah and then went St crazy good lord it's insane there a lot of weird things going on but yeah but he was he was that guy was a communist and he you know communist sympathizer and then went over to to Russia and things like that the Le har well did so you know on paper it looks pretty good you know he was against USSR and this was this was there was actual ual movement in America you know this this communist underground movement in America that were like you know we need to take over this is such an important thing that we need to start killing politicians and leaders who are against this and uh and that they were they were said that everyone needs to buy a gun everyone needs to own a gun because you know when the time comes we're going to have to we're going to have to kill people in these certain uh positions and things like that to to bring about communism because that that is so important that you know these people that that you know we have to kill these people so that everyone else can benefit you know it's like the the ends justify the mean sort of thing and as lenon said you have to break a few in regards to killing millions of people he said well you know you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette Jesus you know back to Carnival exactly yeah um I got to wrap this [ __ ] up man yeah man um we're going to get out of here uh can we do this again absolutely that was [ __ ] awesome yeah and I'm sure the [ __ ] uh information's going to change more and more and more and uh I hope you keep on the good fight with all this yeah yeah I'll do my best dude this is awesome what a great [ __ ] interview really really good how can people get in touch with you just as an ending yeah yeah so uh you know I'm on active on social media so like Instagram just Anthony chaffy MD chaffy spelled CH fou e and then my YouTube is the same thing Anthony chaffy MD then my my podcast is called the plantree MD as as you might guess and uh and I have other social media sort of tied up and all that as well that people can find through those those links on those those pages awesome thank you very much much man not a problem thank you for having me Mr post was a patient of his that then went and founded a Serial company of his own and um very influential man very influential and he was also a bit of an inventor so he invented a um a device that could pump water high high speed exactly yeah so you know you can give himself a high powerered enema like 60 lers a minute