Dr Gary Fettke - Exposing Big Food: A Surgeon's Bold Revelations

welcome to the plant free MD podcast with Dr Anthony chafee where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically all right hello everyone thanks for joining another episode of the plant free MD I'm Dr Dr Anthony chafee and today I have a very special guest Dr Gary fecky who is a long time advocate and proponent of a low-carb lifestyle for health and as well as incorporating in medicine Medical Practice Dr Becky thank you so much for joining us Anthony my pleasure right so for people who haven't come across we talked to the doctor I didn't call me carry it so I'm going to call you Anthony perfect Gary's a four-letter word by the way yeah especially in Australia so um well great so uh for people that haven't come across your work and and your videos online of which there are many I encourage people to go check them out and your websites and YouTube channel can you tell us a bit about yourself and and your work in this area in in some way that's it's not that easy on fairly complicated character but look I'm happily married uh father of what I call three seemingly normally and Justin children grandfather of a couple more most of them are living most of us are living a low-carb lifestyle and seeing the benefits of it I mean that's long and short of it I'm an orthopedic surgeon just sort of retired from my clinical practice um but still doing lots of activism as you know and um for many many years I was in Northern Tasmania ended up being the focus of uh people with diabetic food complications would come along and um I looked after a lot of deep infections not just for diabetes deep infection joint Replacements I was sort of the last stop my clinics used to be called fifth years after fructose free fungating foot poly Fridays there's a lot of F's in there but essentially um like my registrators gave me a toilet brush golden toilet brush one Christmas because I got to clean up all the stuff so as a result of that I I've spent I've had a very interesting surgical career after 30 years but when you actually see that the end complications you can actually treat them with surgery and treatment medications you've got all these other options but the central role of nutrition was just completely missing and the crunch point for me was a guy in his 40 he said he was looking at losing both of these leaves from diabetes complications I end up losing one but he's in hospital I'm trying to control this you know local sepsis in his Limbs and he's been given ice cream three times a day and then I was told oh that's the guidelines that's what we're supposed to be doing and they're still there actually here in Australia you actually start looking at looking down the National Health Food the national guidelines for hospital food and you take it apart you can be served ice cream three times a day and in between for snacks they're giving chocolate biscuits fruit juice cake with a morning tea afternoon tea and supper on top of your three ice creams I'm not making that stuff up yet I've actually presented it to the food industry and I and they said it can't be I said well actually these these are your documents [Music] this nutrition field a from Iron health reasons but actually for my patients and then it was started off as being a campaign in the next issues of sugar then the whole polyunsaturated oils and then carbohydrates which really means Ultra processed food particularly but then when you start looking back and it means a whole lot of other Staples in our diet um and so I started talking about the hospital I got a listing called the internet never heard of it just it just creates trouble in your life within 24 hours I was targeted by someone who was working with Coca-Cola because it's different if you know as you know if you're if it's liberty chefs or someone I've worked with a few over time and they say something related diet they can be knocked down but when a surgeon is sick and tired of amputating Limbs they're saying exactly the same thing it carries with it a bit more credibility maybe not popularity but nonetheless credibility uh and then so it wasn't long uh and you know it's long and shorted I got reported to Medical Board on three occasions one for inappropriately reversing someone's type 2 diabetes on national TV you're not allowed to do that um as it turns out each time I was reported we can track those back even though we're not allowed to know it but nonetheless no attract back to dietitians who are working the dietitians Australia and in contractual agreements that were found by Belinda uh the breakfast cereal industry here in Australia was Contracting with the dietitians Association here in Australia using their members all dietitians in Australia to promote the benefits and protect the benefits of sugar and cereal so the members didn't even know that we've actually got the kpi documents there's a whole lot they're not being presented to consider inquiry the long and short of it is we've got the food industry complicitly promoting sugar and carbs to the population and more as importantly as those people who are speaking against it were named for targeting there were seven people on that list in the documents we had when I was the only Australian doctor on that list for targeting and then it turns out ultimately took four and a half five years out of my lifetime senses and all that sort of thing blender's done an enormous amount of research related to that and ultimately my name was cleared and I received an apology from the medical board and that was critical which is my story was very much like that of Tim nopes over in South Africa Annika dorquist in Sweden and as it turns out we're all being reported by dietitians and Woodland has actually found them those three dietitians across the International borders at an international meeting having a little hug so and the same Playbook that occurred with myself that subsequently happened with other doctors here in Australia talking about low carb nutrition and each time we've been able to come back to my case or Tim's case in these other countries and they've all been thrown out because effectively we're talking about science as you know we're not talking about nutritional science which has been made up by the food industry for over 100 years yeah so I'm I'm No Angel but I was innocent of all those but you know it's about it's about playing Hardball with your own health and hard ball as it was once you work it out for yourself and your family you can't not take that into the workplace yeah hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option so I like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10 off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25 off total all right thanks guys yeah I got a lot of the games we're in can't not yeah definitely and especially in your line of work dealing with people with with very serious complications of diabetes in particular something that is that is so clearly related to food um and and you're dealing with people that are losing limbs uh losing uh more than their lens probably losing kidney function the eyesight and cardiovascular illnesses well diabetes affects every corner of the body yeah yeah when it's poorly could drop I mean our minister of Health for instance we had a meeting with him one day yeah and he said yeah look up he and his family giving up all sugar but we can't do that for the community so yeah we've got these are the the barriers to our messaging uh is not the science the barriers are the vested interests and I think the biggest barrier going forward and I don't know if you've come across is as the egos of health professionals that have to admit they got it wrong and if it's a childlike thing you know if if you've got kids they make a mistake it's like hang on guys you've made a mistake say a sorry and we'll all move ahead yeah and in fact the the because I've been you know as you said I've been doing this for a long time the the we're still having this infantile discussion with national health and medical research Council and actually MRC we're still having a diabetes Australia cancer Council uh Heart Foundation they're also the same oh no this is what the literature shows no the literacy you get is actually been completely written by vested interests who are not interested in actually making people better they're interested in making a profit now I'm going to say it out loud I mean and if anybody wants the proof of it it's there you just gotta go looking for it and that's it but as individuals people can make those Health decisions themselves don't have to wait for your doctor you don't have to wait for it don't don't wait for the you know the food pyramid to change you know the food guidelines because it's going to be more of the same even though there's a review underway at the moment well it's like I can't stop reading sorry no no no you're fine because the thing is I I totally agree with you and I think that that's that's really the only way that we can move forward is we have to get this as a Grassroots Movement we have to get enough people understanding of this and enough you know doctors like yourself speaking about this and teaching other doctors and and bringing them around because you know people people do have good intentions you know like we were talking before this how we both have no problems with vegans we actually like vegans their intentions are are exactly in the right place we would we would share most of them if not all of them it's just that they've been taken in by misinformation or you know we see a problem and we've decided to say well this we think this is a better solution to that problem but we still recognize it as the same problem and there are a lot of doctors that are trying to do the same they're trying to help their patients heal their patients in the best way possible it's just that what they were taught in medical school in their specialty isn't necessarily in that regard going to be exactly the right thing certainly to do with nutrition and and so you know just getting more and more people aware of that because it's not going to come from top down you know until there's 34 of the population out there demanding something different you know the the the the powers in charge aren't going to start listening you know so we have to do that I I I I I I agree in principle but I'm also going to have a little hope that we can create a bit of a top-down approach a bit quicker than the 34 hopefully I know I know several Federal politicians across different parties who are all low-carbon yeah right and then and I said I need you guys to all sit down in Parliament House and have a stake together yeah literally just sit down and have a meal together and start discussing and forget you you know and some of them are I mean a complete odds with each other across the floor but if you've actually got one thing in common you've all actually improved your health yeah there's two two vegans that have actually switched over doing being carnivore you go okay this is here in Australian politics you know um you can have a chat to a same Malhotra about some you know inside information on what's happening in the UK Parliament but you know we're not alone we just need them to stand up yeah there's a great thing called um uh about um uh committed sardines have you heard about them no I don't think so so committed sardines is when a school of fish can just turn around right just like that and this will come into the vegan argument because because it's an interesting point so at any point in time there are fish swimming in different directions on the outside a bit more agitated you know trying to you know not being more aware of what's going on around it and when three percent of them turn the whole can turn the whole school so a whale the same size of that school the fish will take a minute or two to actually do a 180 degree so the big monoliths and we can extrapolates the parallels of it you know whatever you want struggle to turn around but the fish can actually turn around very quickly and so what's the what's the percentage you need to turn them around it's not 50 percent it's not 34 the actual ecological term it's at two three percent so when three percent of the school turn around and there are different ways of considering that there's other changes then you've got the early adopters the later doctors and different ways you look thinking about it mathematically so if you get three percent of the population around on board with this then you're you're winning um Hitler I think one one that one took you know one with nine percent of the vote yeah literally okay major competition but it literally went around that quickly so I'm interested figure of three percent because we're constantly here on mainstream media our three percent of the population are vegan I don't think that's right it might be three percent who have tried vegan or have tried being vegan food right but I don't think it's three percent but the vegans keep saying three percent now I think that they want to keep saying I'll go three percent we can turn it all around right and so uh liqueur in Australia we I know we're already winning because um uh you can buy low carb beer at the pub you go to the Bottle Shop they've got five I think I'm up to about eight different types of low carb beer that you can actually buy so the Market's already responding to what the population wants I don't know if we can talk about how alcohol stops you losing weight now there's some really interesting biochemistry there but politically there's a win there um I've I've put in my talks there I found there's three women's weekly have three low carb cookbooks so when women sleep and last week I found a keto one from women's weekly got a photo I'll send it to you I said hey I found the women's weekly now up to four cookbooks oh my God it's incredibly dangerous the csiro have you know their low carb you know their books on how to turn that around um which is interesting like when that like csiro came out with all of that um 18 months before that one of the authors of that was in our Lounge room we're having a chat about how you can turn low carbon to turning around diabetes but at the same time I'm being smashed underneath the bus we'll see us okay you know up on this Pinnacle because of you know come up with low carb management I think we're winning and I think that's partly population based it says it's largely population based it's actually some freedom of press in social media oh you look great what are you doing that sort of thing I'm feeling better what are you doing that sort of thing um the big institutions are starting to soften particularly diabetes Australia other diabetes associations rather they have to soften because that's the lowest hanging fruit drop your sugar drop your carbs drop your processed food you're going to improve your diabetes outcome overnight because that's it yeah you know and um but if you're going to do low carbon particularly you think of that evolution of like carbon now most a lot of people are eating that they're stand it's what they call you know the sand like standard Australian standard American crab diet lots of and they get to get sick well yeah yeah I think you've seen those figures latest data out of the US is 93.2 of the population of metabolically unwell which means the dietary guidelines which are promoted by governments are completely um were not required because after guides for healthy eating healthy eating for healthy people so you can toss the dietary guidelines out the window we should actually come out with guidelines for unwell people and becoming condition specific diabetes heart cancer renal disease guess what they all end up being lchf low carb keto Carnival but I call that a transition so people are eating the crap diet they get sick then they go and eat this food pyramid diet and I've got a statement there saying there where you say goodbye the food pyramid you're going to look by the guy by the food pyramid along the way you're going to look like it which is fairly accurate and then you've got two people then move off some people who go and work out real food like lchf and then you've got another group that go up towards vegan both with an interest in their health the planet and all that so ultimately that vegan diet being plant-based will be deficient in macronutrients healthy you the proteins you require the healthy fats and it will be deficient in micronutrients minerals I mean the vitamins you know stuff that you've been talking about well it's really so they come back to also HF and then you've got a group that said how the health reasons go to carnivore so I'd go to keto and then a group that go to carnivore so you can't if you really want to go hardcore Keto for health reasons you can't do that on plant-based Foods you know it has to be animal based and because animal based you know we're just animals and we at animal-based diet will be complete in healthy proteins but a complete across all the board and all the products you require all the health effects micronutrients vitamins minerals it's just there yeah and the um you know and and the thing is too that when you do know that you can't you can't unknow it and so you know this doctor it's it's you know you it's you you're you're obligated to tell your patients that and when you walk through the halls of the of of the hospital and you see every single meal and snack is is high sugar carbs it's a sugary carbs all the time you can't not say anything I um I feel the same way so you know it I think it's I think you're right uh it's interesting that you say that about the three percent because I do hear that all the time that you know sort of three percent of people are vegan or vegetarian or something like that but like you say it's probably just people who have tried it because uh there was a figure um I forget who published it but it was it was a study they looked at um you know recidivism of of the oh yes it's like 84 uh will come off of it usually for health reasons that was the most uh the most commonly cited reason on that survey was for health reasons their health suffered as a result of this so 84 I think the benefits of vegan and vegetarian Lifestyles have been either stated and the biggest quote and this is you want to put in this work I've got to drift on there and give her the credit for it but when you realize that the vast majority of literature supporting vegan and vegetarianism actually comes from the Adventist Health studies and have been quoted over and over and over again they re-quote each other so they get lots and lots of citations so the one paper I found cited by other papers from the same group was 400 odd times per study so literally it's I'll write a paper and then I'll recite I'll re-quote it and then you end up with all these citations and they get requested all the time so it's really interesting to look at The Seventh-Day Adventists studies and their definitions of vegan and vegetarianism so vegetarianism can allow for a supplement with meat chicken eggs dairy yeah pork and fish you know so the balloon is actually done an Anthem to that that's another thing we can find on YouTube the low carb Anthem you know I am yeah that came up on a flight to the U.S she's just laughed at me when I said look I'm a vegetarian she said what the hell are you on about this type and I've actually used that argument because I found a group of vegans activists assaulting a 14 year old kid at a little animal farm they just completely gang up and I went in there with open arms I said come on guys you know look I'm a vegetarian yeah but I'm not hassling this 14 year old is tending a calf and the animal yeah I said but I didn't actually tell them I supplement yeah yeah it was but I mean that that's a huge issue there anyway so the definitions of vegetarianism is as used by the Adventist Church is that you don't eat meat more than once a week okay so hang on you can eat it every eight days and you still classified as a vegetarian animal buys foods every day to die and you'll be fine and the definition of vegan in the advantaged health studies was that you don't eat eat more than once a month hmm so hang on we've just all of you and so yes you if you're going to be having some liver pate on the 31st day then you're going to get probably just enough micronutrients to get by or if you you know four kilos of steak on the 31st day I mean I'll be obviously you know exaggerating but don't you know so the biggest studies in the world which actually you know the Hallmark behind all of this is actually written by an organization which is actually it runs 14 different processed food Industries has a religious ideology swag but their literature is completely flawed by their data it's just fascinating to find you know you know it's called looking at methodology don't just look at the conclusion don't even look at your read the abstract you're going to look at the methodology when you actually drag the methodology here and you find out you know things like the blues you know which side that's you know gender for the plant-based diet well the blue zones actually only became marketable after they included Loma Linda in the US which is a set of daily venters then they commercialized upon the Seventh-Day Village Church has now bought the patents online on Blue zones so the term blue zones and people communities want to become blue zones at Rough cost about half a million to a million per County per Shire per area in the U.S and they've signed up hundreds and hundreds of places to actually become a Blue Zone County in Texas if you if you add if you as a career if you want a farm B you've actually got to give money to the blue zones this is absolutely crazy I mean I I could only happen in the US now it's happening right around Australia right around the world that this Blue's own sting is it's all about the benefits of a plant-based food we actually take each one of those cultures apart okay all eight fresh local seasonal Whole Food with a good cultural environment and they were eating their local fish or their local pork and they're like having their geese and their animal based product in there so it's just a complete myth that's actually been taken over by a market by a food industry um Church ideology and it's just a major Market Force yeah and they're becoming the educators of Lifestyle medicine in the US and around the world and when you hear the term livestock medicine okay that's actually Church organization run by running a vegan agenda and all their textbooks and all their um exams are all promoting veganism but they don't they get and that's the frustration it's not biochemistry it's not the Krebs cycle you know that's it's politics power um and um and money and religious ideology I didn't mean to find all the stuff out and I'm actually they're very very clever they've done a great job they've been working at it for 100 years and staying very much behind the scenes and in the shadows you know well yes and no well as far as I mean I didn't know that they came up with the field of nutritional sciences and and lifestyle medicine and things like that until I saw your and your wife's uh lectures on it it's the very first meeting um of dietitians the formation of the American dietitians Association was in October 22 23 1917 approximately okay uh I think on 1923 sorry 1923 and at that first meeting with six weeks notice we can get it right there's either five or six food industry groups with their advertising yeah exactly this is important we think we need to be here and the founder of that uh Linda Cooper had been working with John Harvey Kellogg four years and and John Harvey kellogged Seventh-day Adventist the founder of Kellogg's and 101 serial companies were founded in Battle Creek Michigan which is a hybrid Adventist Church blah blah blah and it's just continued on that there's a multi-billion Dollar Food Industries now no Branch down into you know a whole lot of other processed foods and vertically integrated themselves from the farming practices into the thing and actually in the pharmaceutical industry and guess what dogs are producing drugs to lower your blood glucose from the food that they've served yeah this is yeah yeah that's some of what they're doing but it's just it's a rabbit Warren but it's the same players that keep cropping up or the same Pathways that keep cropping up and it's interesting I'm using the term cropping this is plant-based isn't it not rising up cropping up um in um it's the same Playbook it's been going for over 100 years and it's um you know right through to the the controlling of parliamentary inquiries or government inquiries in the US this shook as being bad for us has actually been well documented no right from the outset back in the 1910 early 1900s um Pathways to try and get it through government we're we're hoping but it's being blocked by Coca-Cola and it's just and the center of Disease Control in the U.S so they say you ever heard them say anything about sugar or the land actually started CDC was granted on to them by the president of the Coca-Cola Foundation there's an ongoing Thai with Coca-Cola in the sugar industry in the center of Disease Control they've had you know one of the biggest arbitrators of you know Health advice in the world and I've never heard them say anything bad about sugar when you go back into history and you find that the great the buildings were given to the ground that they sit on were supplied to them by Coca-Cola yeah wow and then um and that's that's something too you know you and and your wife Belinda have done really deep dives into this and I encourage everyone to watch those uh YouTube videos and talks about the history of this but you know for people that have it uh come across that and don't really know the history uh behind all this you know what where how did we get the dietary recommendations that we have now why is it that all the new the the colleges of nutrition are saying everything should be plant-based everything should be plant-based or vegan I remember you know I grew up in Kirkland Washington there's a college there Bastyr which has been well at least at the time it was the top rated nutritional graduate school in America and it was just all about raw food veganism just just whole whole food plants like that that was it that's everything they were pumping out of there um how did we get there I mean who who started all this and why are we why do we have to listen to it 1910 1923 okay this thing called the flexner report 1910 commissioned uh Carnegie and Rockefeller who actually I actually found out any recently they actually weren't getting along very well but they commissioned Abraham flexer and to pretty good pretty well got rid of holistic medicine at that point in time and it became the birth of the pharmaceutical industry and the concepts of to medicate and to operate were born not to prevent [Music] that's one critical time but there's a talk of mine called the failure of medical education on YouTube which covers all this in a bit more detail then you've got the birth of the American dietetics Association 1923. now when you go long and short of it is our I call it um uh uh historical education we find that you and I find it hard to challenge our teachers and our teachers found it hard to challenge their teachers and how to challenge the textbooks but if you go back in history and particularly in dietetics the original textbooks for dietetics nutrition were written by Leonard Cooper as a vegan but we've actually got some of her textbooks from 90 they wrote that she has you know you can pick them up for a few dollars you know because it one of the Hammond they print hundreds and hundreds of thousands of this as is the textbook of nutrition and it's demonizing me and it's right you know you know showing the benefits of plant-based product right from the word go so the textbooks for dietetics to this day we had some dietitians who were working for us you know some a few years ago I said get out your textbooks I'd give them to move first of all and I went through like the major textbook written by Mark Walker's who was the guy who was the expert witness against me has the terms meet in it four times I think in the version I've got and one of them was hidden under protein sources two were about mad cow disease and the other one was about food poisoning and so if you look under the chapters about protein it talks about all these alternative projects but not meat not animal based and so when you realize the textbooks for over 100 years have been plant-based the dietitians believe it you know the benefits of grains and legumes and fruits and vegetables are just that that's in a tactical and the same thing in our textbooks medical surgicals have been written by the industry promoting a product um Harrison's textbook of internal medicine the last one I looked at the editors of it in the previous year had received 12 million dollars in consultancy phase from the pharmaceutical industry and there's just no way you know we've got one of the Deans of medicine here in Australia the gatekeeper of the education that students is receiving I was has received over two hundred thousand dollars directly from the Pharmaceuticals during the last few years not for research I've got problems with research in itself you know people get funding for all of that but it's getting its consultancy phase what the hell is a date of Medicine they're not going to be sued because I've been deliberately non-specifically but you can find that out on the internet on the information and I've confronted him with it I said why are you blocking this message has it got something to do with the fact that you've received this information there's money so our you know when people say oh the textbooks say that what's the messaging coming through and we've been having these conversations at a national International level with those oh that's what the information says Because unless you challenge the paradigm that's the end of it you've got an email from me at the bottom it says science evolves by being challenged not by being followed that is the scientific method just said in another way and the more of this obstructive behavior that we have are you not allowed to challenge the professor or the textbook or the previous bit of information or you know you and I have challenged that and you know you've got to do deep Dives down other other non-mainstream journals to find the science to back it all up but we're being abstracted when all we're doing is our job which is quality assurance which is challenging the scientific it is the scientific method and yeah I actually I am deeply disturbed by you know what's gone on the last you know 15 years with all of this that we're seeing the end of science and I chat to the Educators at the University I say what have we got this year Shepherds or sheep the answer year in is cheap and every year with my teaching I spent went to Great Lengths to find one Shepherd and then nurture that Shepherd and you'd like to think that the medical profession you know that you know top marks in high school I come to like say our three kids are too smart none of them did Madison right [Music] yeah [Laughter] yeah and the only anything I can do about that is to keep raising the awareness [Music] uh and yes it is a Road Less Traveled it's a harder road to travel but it's okay to challenge and I don't I haven't got given you a copy of the book I wrote some years ago but essentially one of the final things is that only dead fish swim with the current you ever think about that you know so if you just want to keep Meandering a lot but you know you're truly alive like the salmon swimming Upstream when you're fighting that current you're working hard but you know you're actually alive and I'm just really really concerned that there are a lot of dead fish out there yeah particularly in the medical field and other ones which are our Gatekeepers to our health yeah and you know just thinking about what you said you know sometimes it can be a strike to the ego when when someone is challenged with the fact that they may have been hurting their patients for a number of years or um you know but I think that anybody who is is responsible would look at that and go well geez I don't want to hurt any more patients I should I better look into this and make sure that I'm that I'm doing the right thing or that I can do better well I've got a personal level I was heading towards a boost um I had health problems I love chocolate here's a big confession I was to Cape judge at the hospital and I wouldn't take kids past as off unless they bought me a chocolate cake yeah so they'd say you know they'd come in they say oh how long is the fast run I say well it's six weeks if you bring me a chocolate cake eight if you don't so we have literally Fridays that clinic used to end up with about you know at times half a dozen chocolate coats and so you know we'd share them around the wards and I always take the best one home and I was 20 kilos heavier than what I am now but so you know these are confessions I got it wrong you know and and I tell you what it's a complete relief to be able to say I got it wrong let's move ahead and those medicos and I'm going to talk about those Healthcare Professionals in particular they've said I got it wrong and moved ahead and you know the whole Field's full of them now I got it wrong was the most empowering moment for them to go on and make a difference the last time the medical profession said they got it wrong publicly was politomized the added a lawsuit drug and I think it's the figure of about 10 000 people were maimed as a result of thalidomide massive however when you compare it to the number of people maimed by the modern diet and the health consequences and just of diabetes and amputations are done on an annual basis it makes tholidomide just just nothing in the overall scheme of it and that's such a powerful right wave to be riding on at the moment for you the others in that space because you know this is this is the best part of medicine ever is making people better by empowering them with information that they can do rather than you can infinitely more power than the what is it you know the the pen is mightier than the sword and you know we've got scalpels in our hands and yeah that's powerful but I can tell you what I mean I know that my social media reach is further every day than the number of people that I'd see in a lifetime medicine but that says it all and it's something I've got to be careful of and I've got to be respectful of and you know you know your talks to me we're talking about between us millions of people have viewed those things over the years and you know we contacted from around the world and so that's a very great privilege that we have and share and but at the same time I find it really hard to be respectful of the authorities who are still blocking a preventative health message so if it's being blocked that's where I work that's where you know Belinda's work in particular and others are going okay why hasn't been blocked whose genes are blocking and guess what it's the same players over and over and over food industry pharmaceutical and exclusive Day Adventist Church fancy and that's the big group so just keep calling them out yeah and because nobody knows where Tasmania is and we haven't been killed yet yeah that was that was a figure I heard earlier this year was that just Coca-Cola and obviously you know Nestle and Pepsi and certainly Kellogg's and sanitarium foods which is the Seventh-day Adventist uh cereal company here in Australia um just Coca-Cola spends 11 times the amount of money on nutritional research than the NIH every year and so and that's just Coca-Cola so you have to imagine that that large bulk of the nutritional studies and science so-called are obviously going to be favoring their products and I I remember from one of your talks I can't remember the organization's name but it was the you know the the exercises medicine sort of oh yeah well I'm American College of uh not exercise but American College of sports medicine do they and weren't they weren't they founded by originally started by Coca-Cola you know it's called Health washing your product you know who's the longest sponsor of the Olympic Games Coca-Cola yeah along the sponsor of FIFA you know for the World Cup coming up again you know we come up with Coca-Cola you know thank goodness McDonald's got kicked out of the Olympics last round was it something like that but again this is Health washing and typical we've got little Athletics in here in Tasmania I don't know about the rest of the company that's sponsored by the the um the national Lolly company little Athletics or if you do well you get a McDonald's voucher they are and you know we it's you know oh we need the sponsorship to keep going no you know what what are we setting these kids up for uh and um it's it's an ongoing it's like I call it whack-a-mole you know that game is okay here there it is it's again okay I haven't heard from a little bit oh yeah okay here they come and it's just a constant battle and that's why it's important to have discussions like this even though we might be repeating ourselves it is whack-a-mole you're going to just keep keep it up because someone says no no thanks can I say it's BS you know it's just no oh you know I you have to have your essential grades there's a professor very highly placed professor of nutrition he just reminded me to email him again it came up and we were debating a topic and um it came up to me afterwards it says oh you can get all your B vitamins from uh complex you know 50 grams of complex carbohydrate and I said hang on I said what about B12 he said he said you know this is a classic eminence-based medicine is it Dr fetty or wrong yeah you can get all your car you can get all your babe vitamins from 50 grams of great there's a conversation Panda so you know I had to in the head of the moment it wasn't it's important not to have fisticuffs in a debate and um so I emailed him a couple of quick articles saying you know the grains are deficient in B12 it lifts its focus on the one thing it's the biggest biggest problem ever played based on it and you just got now you can get some 50 grams of grains which is really important to have it in writing if I'm ever needed to say it so I said can you actually point me to an article where that's covered you know some piece of literature some piece of biochemistry [Music] I that email was lost by the way okay so I couldn't didn't respond so then I because I'm not going to let that one go and so this has been going on for six months it still will not give me a reference to that this is the guy one of the guys one of the two major players of this giving nutritional advice in this country and you just go you're wrong he's also been doing funded work with sanitaria okay with the plant-based things hang on and I've called him out on that and I I don't win any friends Anthony okay that's why I started off so I'm very hopefully Married with Children and granddaughter because that's don't need anymore because sort out your own life and but this here's an example of so much confusion because I'm trying to look around for friends now I was at the supermarket the other day and there's a bike that I play golf with and he and his wife we just walked in and they had in their trolley a bag of spuds potatoes and um a loaf of bread and I couldn't help I said mate you just failed my you filed my shopping trolley test and his and he's and his wife said oh this is the low-carb bread next to a bag of potatoes right and by the time they were spending time in the fruit and veg section and I was just getting some meat okay wasn't from the butcher but it was after hours we needed some weight and uh but so I've gone out with my meat and butter and a container of cream you know okay I'm guilty people look at me and I'm gonna have a heart attack on you know two legs yeah are you hopping in the hearse no um anyway and I just went and see and she said she's trying to do low carb but her husband said don't argue with her and I looked at it away so here's someone who's got understands the wording of what we're talking about who's completely confused yeah in the first 10 minutes of a shopping trolley and and I think that's where this education process has got to keep going and even though I may not agree with all the recipes in the women's weekly cookbook and it's not an endorsement or it's the concept of if we're giving people information and they can keep learning or whichever method it comes from I'm still waiting for a Parliament House to put out a low-carb cookbook which is not going to happen but see that you know so it's not it's a battle that's going to be whack-a-mole is going to keep going for a long time yeah and um who was that that you were debating that said that you could get B12 from grains or are you allowed to say or oh of a yes okay all right we'll get that um no that's fine you know I've seen your great talk about you know vegetables are trying to kill you a big big Ward I actually put up a slide at the food industry say hospital food is is hospital food is crap and it's killing my patients yeah okay and they've got reported that was quoted and reported back to the medical board Medical Board asked the hospital to investigate and the hospital said we've found no cases of the hospital food killing Dr 50's patients so it's a figure of effing speech right right if you're in hospital with type 2 diabetes and you've got a hbo1c or 11 and it's totally out of control and you're giving them carbs emptying times per day ultimately it is crap food and it's killing my patients so be careful with what you say because it'll come back to but my talk about is fruit good or bad for you because I'm going back several years I wasn't brave enough to go and say the whole vegetable thing at that point in time but that that stemmed from a debate against the professor of nutrition for the defense divorces that we had a debate for science week and um you know it was fruit good or bad for you like I got the corn site and they got the anyway he actually gave a talk talking about how they changed all the processing and chemical nature of fruits I thought I probably didn't even need to get up and actually give the talk and then I gave my talk and he actually considered defeat halfway through it yeah so you know that well that's when I brought up religion so I'm comfortable talking about religion because you know what's the original sin well it's when eve took the Apple from the tree and God was saying don't do it yeah yeah he don't do it you know we don't take the fruit of the forest don't do it yeah um and it's interesting that because we speak openly about religion a lot of people feel uncomfortable that opening of Belinda's work I said I'm not going to let you give that talk about where the Adventist Church sits in the whole thing but I gave that talk at um the CrossFit Games a few years ago now that was called the central role of nutrition and everything Tim Knox is the other guest speaker Tim Belinda Tim Greg Glassman and iron crossed at the time and his CEO and three corporate lawyers knew that I was going to cross the boundary so in the midwest in the U.S you know to put it all religious plays a thousand people in the audience I crossed the religion boundary and started exposing The Seventh-Day Adventist Church which Battle Creek Michigan was only three hours drive away by car and I I understand that what people feel like when they go over Niagara Falls in the barrel there is no coming back from that and so we're not we're not trying to be disrespectful it's just really important to actually let people know that the food guidelines have been written by processed food industry religious organization here in here in Australia everyone's heard of the the star rating on food but the algorithm for that was written by sanitaria perfect and here's another thing about the health star rating it's a health star rating against other products in the same group it's not overall health benefits so you'll also find that they have the potential to actually let's say sanitary they produce a small packet of not up and go yeah up and down or something like that and I'm making this is fictitious right and they fill it up with 100 you know just sugar and whatever other crap you can find you know trans fats and what it is filling up with that and then they put their up and go against it against it and the up and go gets a four-star rating because it's up against a product which is barely on the market so you don't actually it's not up and go is up not up against milk or water it's up against the worst product in that category then you'll find therefore Health star ratings are only on processed foods you don't find he'll start rating on a stake or an egg it's not just not fits because it's really interesting they don't write that well according to the processed food industry so again and so with Sanitarium produce a writing school which is bad against their products of course not Damon gamer who wrote who did that Sugar film Damon tried to bring in a sugar um how many teaspoons of sugar labeling system here in Australia with some of the profits from the film what's kept coming up in stumbling bottle stumbling block because the only products which actually show how about how bad they are are actually all the processed students so all the ones who hmm again it just if we're going to ask the industry to police themselves either internally organ externally it's advising the government we're caught it's biochemistry inside the cell you know it's outside the cell it's politics and money and opinion and and egos yeah definitely and uh you know as you mentioned before the field of Lifestyle medicine which is something that's been getting a bit more attention recently it sounds great you know eat healthy and exercise and you can be healthy something that you and I both espouse but unfortunately because as you were saying they were founded by The Seventh-Day Adventist Church I believe in 2003 um it's it's all about plant-based and you know one person that I've I've had run-ins with and had to sort of do a debunking video against was a Dr IDs who was a sort of a tick tock doctor I don't know if he actually sees any patients or not I hope he doesn't but he is one of these lifestyle medicine doctors and he just pushes the whole plant-based agenda can you can you talk a little bit about that because unfortunately that's something that sounds really appealing to people because they think oh finally a doctor is going to look at me holistically and address diet and lifestyle and all these other sorts of things well the concepts of Lifestyle medicine yeah as you say you know it will expose might as well sleep well there's even a spiritual side to it not only a problem with all that but when you actually come down to the eat well it is actually plant-based now as we know I'm actually respectful of people who wish to travel an improvement in their health so the latest I think like this leave them and from Harvard Universities right into exercises to heard him have a chat happen then 50 of the American population have never exercised I think that's about right you know [Music] um and um James dinner collatino just put up something even today you know that if you're over 30 and you don't have a you know extended standard abdomen and you exercise and you you know eating well you're in the one percent you know so it's and therefore support those people to do that what um so if as I said if you move away from having a crap diet and you do to go to plant-based you are going to feel healthy because you're going to be dropping your sugars you're going to drop dropping um this the seed oils and the the deep fried stuff and I think that it's going to give you some benefit you'll feel better immediately you won't be having quite as many of the highs and lows of particularly glucose however [Music] um you are going to run out of essential proteins and essential effects and micronutrients and that's when catches up with and if you're actually trying to get your protein requirements and micronutrient levels it's going to have to come at a major major carbohydrate intake and that talk like in through covert talk was this carbohydrate good what the carbohydrate the dose is the poison I actually went through because we're talking about our low carb carbs bad whatever I thought I'd do an academic argument on and actually so I actually came up with a toxic dose because a toxic dose is whatever it does harm to the system at four grams or one teaspoon of glucose or kale of sugar we'll actually start having a negative impact on the body so you get your protein requirements from a plant-based diet you're going to be happening having hundreds of grams of protein of carbohydrate to get there which I think has got this other whole inflammatory disaster Zone you know insulin insulin is fat storage woman but it's a major inflammatory hormone it's a cancer promoting hormone and it's no wonder that over a period of time people who do try this vegan pathway end up drifting back to a dating some animal-based product in their diet um the problem is you can you can as the health system is able to charge more if you've done a course like lifestyle medicine and lifestyle accreditation is very expensive prices several hundred dollars just to attend a workshop another set of 100 to actually do the exams and once you've committed a whole lot of money to it you actually start believing it because if for some period of time and then people get sick um and I think this is the false advertising that goes with it it sort of it drives me again whack-a-mole you know our plant-based diet can reverts diabetes know it can't best results in the literature are 0.3 Improvement in hba1c which is the figure we you know use here in Australia um in the low carb group there used to be there was a competition they go what's the greatest HBA 1C I think it was marcozella had a 22.5 reduction in HBO A1C I've had a few patients get you know 11 to 11 12 13 reductions normal hpa1c is you'd like to think is 5.5 diabetes is above 6.5 you don't have diabetes if you're 6.49 by the way thank goodness for that you know that's just complete it's an arbitrary number drawn there by the industry you're well controlled if you've got 7.5 no you're not well controlled the complications go up at 5.7 so again so we're talking so the whole the best vegan vegetarian which says 0.3 reduction and here this whole work coming out now about putting type 2 titanities into a remission with a low-carb lifestyle or a ketogenic intervention is reducing these by significant numbers three four five twenty two percent reduction in hbo1c James mookie is Australian was the Australian exchange has been working hard at the spot he just sent me a text message a couple of days ago a woman with macular degeneration two years of low carb a put a type 2 diabetes into remission type in that period of time but now also has a complete resolution of Immaculate degeneration this is a massive problem right across the world and it's related to what we need it's a metabolic Health Disorder so he's actually seeing reversal of eye disease now I'm working with some renal Physicians who are seeing reversal of kidney disease chronic kidney disease and actually being put on a low carb higher protein diet well we can't talk about that in random disease and they're actually so these are professors by the way who actually sang an improvement not every complete reversal but an improvement in a chronic disease diabetes Improvement in a chronic disease um coronary artery calcium scores associated with how much calcium sitting in your blood vessels people seeing an improvement in the coronary artery Council School this does not happen on a plant-based diet and so when you keep hearing this stuff come out I'm sorry it's either a lie or they're a fool for believing it and again harsh words but I don't think that's stupid so therefore I don't think all the plant-based doctors are stupid they've just if all the textbooks surrounding you say one thing they start believing it yeah because if you start saying the opposite thing you get into trouble welcome to my world welcome to your world our assistant doesn't like it when he starts challenging it yeah okay it doesn't doesn't matter what topic we're talking about health today you haven't even got me off on the other tangents well well speaking about carbohydrates as well you do have that great talk uh talking about carbohydrates uh being a poison and you touched on some of them some of them there but um I think I think you made a very very uh interesting and Powerful point that they're really just going up one teaspoon really is enough to start having toxic effects on your body and you start talking uh can you tell us a bit about about some of this of glucose in it so that's it it's circulating all the time there's only a few cells in the body that need glucose the red blood cells uh some of the cells in the lens of the eye and some of them unusual cells in the loop of handling in the kidney some small thin cells they have actually of absolute requirement for glucose which can be generated from the breakdown of the glycerol and fat or it can be broken down from your credit from gluconeogenesis for the product so we only have very small background in the requirement for glucose and the body will go to enormous lengths to maintain that and that's called glucagon secreted by the pancreas the pancreas often known for secreting insulin so when you eat carbohydrate it produces insulin but when we donate glucagon is secreted to keep our blood glucose up and we go to enormous amounts of to keep our blood glucose at a certain level very low level but every this is a flip on the concept but the more glucose you'll have to come up with the concept that the body does everything in its capacity to get it out of the bloodstream so it's not actually saying that there's a good thing it's actually saying oh my God I'm overwhelmed with sugar and it gets it out of the bloodstream and primarily does that via insulin so the glucose comes in those levels start getting into the hypothalamus ultimately the secretion of insulin by the pancreas and that insulin will move the glucose out of the bloodstream and into the tissues I'll come back to do that so if your blood glucose goes up two things happens one is that the glycocalyx which is the it's actually the biggest organ in the body almost I think 1.5 square kilometers of lining of our blood vessels and it's a tiny little Port inner lining of our of our blood vessels which keeps the Single Cell going through it now when you hit it with glucose it actually gets thinned down gets damaged quite a bit like driving along without any tread on your tires it actually loses traction you lose the blood flow it turns the whole blood supply so the glycocalyx is damaged by an elevated blood glucose and those people with diabetes have a chronically thinned glycocalyx which allows them for at the walls to be weaker and for proteins to break through it's a bit like the same as the Leaky guts you know a lot of people have heard about that when you get inflammation in the gut the tight junctions between the cells and the small intestine get broken down proteins get into the bloodstream you then get allergies in the then we may have talked about the lectins and pectins and get the oxen start coming into then I'll equate it so essentially we end up with a thin wall inflamed blood vessel right throughout the entire body just with an elevated blood glucose my favorite other thing about blood glucose is that when you actually have an elevator in the blood it actually leaches into the soft tissue and then there's a term called the mild reaction have you heard of that yeah it's a cooking term yeah so when you put the piece of bread in the toaster remind me about that and I'll tell you funny story okay you put the piece of white bread in the toaster and it heats up it goes Brown exactly the same now what that reaction is it's a reaction of glucose with the protein under the effect of heat so called a glycosation of protein so exactly the same thing happens in the tissue so when your blood glucose goes up your tissue glucose goes up and with that under the affected body heat the glucose combines with the protein so effectively every time your blood glucose spikes and the obvious example is in type in diabetes you are effectively toasting your tissues you're toasting your brain your eyes your kidneys all the way through the legs it's just literally I've explained it to endocrinologists like that and then I got ah I hadn't thought of that like that the ones with open minds okay and they went yeah that's it that is the glycolational protein and tissues so but the body does not like an elevator of glucose come back to the insulin the insulin is one thing that it does and the very first thing it does it spikes it by glucose gets rid of the glucose out of the tissue pushes it into making more fat but the other two side effects of insulin is it's a tumor promoting hormone and it's an inflammation by the way and from the inflammation one it actually makes osteoarthritis of the knee worse that data came out of China in 2020 I keep saying not everything came out of that China in 2020 was bad you know it's a really good research showing that insulin will affect synovial sites in the knee osteoarthritic knee human tissue and it makes it worse and I know it wasn't written by a low Carver I've said this publicly because very clearly at the end of it the conclusion is we need to Target insulin as a treatment of osteoarthritis in the knee no you get stop eating the carbohydrate you won't need the insulin and in the clinical setting those patients that actually come along with end-stage arthritis and this is the same thing that Sean Baker had in the U.S we've had a few chats about it we've got we both got into trouble for actually doing less operations because the system requires a throughput and if your patients aren't going to maybe there's a shoulder surgeon who's pretty well retired because all of his patients with rotator cuff disease he said I if you might need an operation but I want you to do this low carb nonsense for you know six weeks I'll book you to surgery in six weeks and three quarters of his patients didn't turn up for surgery and when you actually break it down to looking at glucose metabolism so the damage inside the cartilage comes from that same migration it's the glucose combining with the tissue in the knee when you look at the tendons in the shoulder the ankles it's the same problem it's the tendons are actually damaged by the end products and glucose metabolism not a protein metabolism or fat metabolism it comes back to glucose and then when you take the insulin out of the equation you reduce that glucose load the tissues have a chance to Healing and so I wish I'd known this at the beginning of my career rather than at the end why they wouldn't have had a career anyway so are you here's a quick funny story um I I wanted to grab some toast for a lecture and I was flying up to Sydney and uh you know Mary Ann demarcy who used to be the Catalyst reporter Catalyst journalist she got into trouble because she was doing the Statin issues under on um on the Catalyst program on ABC and I'll come to Marianne's defense she was a very smart lady got targeted by industry again I ultimately lost her job through that but anyway Marianne I was staying with Marianne I said Mary I've got to give the lecture tonight tomorrow morning was a weekend thing can can you buy a loaf of white bread for me please because I said I don't want to be saying dead by white bread so she went down you know with sunglasses on and the hoodie and bought a loaf of white bread cheapest white bread so now we need a toast I'm still on it I don't think I want to toast it so we're staying with an apartment and so she found a toaster and some back covered and so we're toasting bread for this lecture we set off the firearm for the entire building so it says I can't say anything good about white bread [Laughter] experience forgive me for letting you tell me that story okay no you're fine um I was going to say too you know that that is something that that I've heard some you know vegan proponents certainly just anti-meet proponents say is a problem as well I don't know if you if you know anything about this but I figured it was worth a question obviously that my art reaction and creating all these you know ages um uh Advanced glycation and products you know these things can be quite damaging and so I put I put all the ages into the talk as well but I didn't in the summary bit there yeah okay perfect yeah so but what they argue too is that well if you're if you're eating meat that you cook that Browns on the outside and then you're eating all those ages and then that's damaging to you is that is that uh does that hold water or does does our digestion break that down I've spent a bit of time looking at this there's no definitive answer that I that I've been able to find however um pH of the stomach is incredibly acidic and as far as I can work out aging agas doesn't get into the bloodstream yeah I wouldn't think so but I I don't have the Divinity paper but I'm with you on board I've actually gone looking for it yeah it's a bit like it's a bit like I tried to find the end products of carbohydrate with capital it's that whole stuff with the ages and the glycational produce I tried to find that with back pain and the discs at the spine and I would have thought that really would have been a unifying Theory so I found it with the cartilage in the joints I found it with the tendons couldn't find it with the discs of the spine so there's some research I think you can start actually not next time you're doing a discectomy or within some fusion whip the discs out and start actually doing some biochemical analysis on them and actually because nobody's gone looking for it yeah that's a very good point so that's the I've got a hundred research projects in my head and now I've just done oh Anthony can do that good yeah well that's a very good point um yeah and because you know they certainly are enough of those coming in I just had four micro disks today so yeah just get get hold of that gunge you know that little bit of shredded crab mate yeah yeah I used to do the spinal surgery for Northern Tasmania for about 15 years now I got smarter than you and I stopped I encouraged encouraged one of our oldest fellows to come back and take it over yeah and so then I was doing lots of knees but then realized I don't need to do the knees if they would expect low carb yeah true exactly yeah it's fascinating fascinating where we've gotten it wrong well you know I think that's the thing too you look at this to me like well we're going to put ourselves out of work you know if we keep getting people Weld and you know what is there to fix but I mean there's certainly so many things that were already necessary for for doctors to be involved in so that orthopedic surgery I mean people break bones people hurt themselves they have accidents and traumas that's something real that doctors can actually help with and um and and something that's been fundamental and and really why I think doctors have historically had a very good reputation and was like Hey you get broken some accident this guy can fix you that's an amazing thing that someone can do for you and I think that going back to that would not only be the right thing to do obviously because you're you're helping people but also more fulfilling um as as a profession you know you're actually helping people who are damaged and nothing else and no one else can help them whereas instead of picking up the pieces of of poor choices that's that's much more rewarding I used to be critical of the patients you know meaning oh you've put yourself into this situation but I think it's actually us as a health profession a sickness industry could have actually put them there because we're not even if you want to eat well you know you're constantly distracted being undermined if you chat to Physicians GPS uh myself yourself when you actually realize that um low-carb and it's extension into keto and then Carnival is actually restored the joy of Medicine like it actually when um as I say I've sort of retired from clinical practice and one of my colleagues one of the young guys who came back said um he actually thought it was interesting saw quite a few of my patients that didn't like me because I said you don't need a new replacement you need to change your lifestyle do you need to actually just get your act together instead of being 120 kilos I think if you're 100 kilos you'll find it's less painful and I'm going to help you do that without not telling you to go and outline your diet or you know just and you're setting up the supporter and a lot of people can't do it I get that but you can't do it if you're not supported anyway he actually had that impression he said okay and this is a conversation we're going to have a couple of weeks ago I said he had this impression that I was just that even though he knew me that I was sitting a really you know higher level not achievable but then since I've retired he's actually seeing a whole lot of my patients that did actually do it in the follow-up and they and I'm not banging my drum they are so appreciative that they've been empowered again to take control of their own lives and he just said to me I get it you know you know so there's hope there's a younger generation going I get it and I can tell you and did speak to anyone taking the spot on as a health professional it is a bit more hard work and it requires more time with the patient but it is incredibly rewarding um Laureen Lawless Smith in South Australia she's right on board with this she's set up a clinic a self dietitian and a counselor psychologist David Dunwood in the UK is ready to quit you know he's over it now he's just going to keep going we stayed with David and Jen a few years ago and it just is beaming from ear to where like a kid literally in a lolly shop you know like I can't help but to give you some pugs but it's just grinning people close to retirement who are grinning from Italy because they're helping people after Decades of band-aiding sick care yeah and it and it is that importantly uses that to band-aiding sick care that's what we've all been trained to do yeah and the only way you can Band-Aid sick care is actually by medicating operating and the only way you can turn around Health ultimately is by paying attention to what fuel you put in tank yeah yeah and it's been so flaming obvious now yeah no it is and and I I certainly didn't want to you know I I certainly didn't mean that the patient making bad choices and so I mean some people do some people drink smoke and do things that that you know everyone knows this is probably not a good idea but I do 100 agree with you that that a lot of these people are trying to eat well but it's not a patient comes into me and and I talk to them and they're having health issues in my functional medicine practice outside of neurosurgery and and I'll talk to them about their health and I'll talk to them about what they're eating and uh or even in you know other other you know positions as well someone said well no I I eat well I eat really healthy I eat really clean and I was asking okay what does that mean to you and it's always the dietary guidelines eat a lot of fruits and vegetables and whole grains and fruit juices and I try to you know eat very lean meat and stay away from red meat and things like that and and that's you know that's what they think and and so I've spoken to other doctors about this generally overweight doctors funny enough and they always say well the problem is with patients you know being overweight and not being healthy is that they just don't listen to us they just don't listen to Our advice and I'm like are you listening to your advice because it'll be great advice and um and I I point out to them that no it's actually it's actually because they've been listening to our advice that's what's gotten them into the bad situ situation that they're in but I was listening to my own advice I got it wrong and I was unhealthy yeah yeah and I I don't like to think I'm not double negative I don't think I'm not intelligent but I was caught up with all the information that I was surrounded by to find out that it was completely wrong yeah so am I stupid or did I get the wrong information to make my judgments from and I think that's it's it's we're in a we're at a real Junction that we either go down that path or that path and um because we've been on that one way for a long time we do need we do need the committed sardines we do need to do you are going down the highway you are going the wrong way you can turn around you know that's and um I at one moment I'm frustrated another moment I'm elated and all it requires is you know and so if we need to possibly reinforce that message because it's tough tough going you know uh you know I'm only 23 I'm going to look a lot older because depending on which way the conversation goes someone got someone said um I play golf with the Vets bro inspirational guys in their 80s you know and they say how old are you young young fella I said I'm 85 I'm just looking better than you so it can go both ways yeah oh it's I actually was playing golf with two guys who were in a car one guy he showed me I looked after my finger which is sort of still half work I said good to see you can play golf and the other guy said um oh you gave me some advice to lose weight from my back because at that point I used to I used to put a slave of beer under each other I said you got a slave of beer that you're carrying around unnecessarily slave would be is 10 kilos by the way so we had two slabs of beer in my office and I'd put a get them to walk around and that that well and truly stale and got thrown out in the end but and I he said and I said what did I say to you I said I gave you a save a beer under each arm and he was about to do his backswing I said we didn't pay any attention to me then did you because he still had the big gut yeah yeah he then wrecked his shot and uh we all had a laughing as expense was the 18th hole so it was okay yeah that's what I gotta Play Dirty your money was on it you know two dollars or something I think it's once you start talking and working in this area or practicing and it's joyous frustrating and you end up reading a whole lot of interesting people all across the world you know um you know we have a bit in common I was actually born in Perth so nice and um but uh and these enlightened people are generally those that are quarkling to Buck the system a bit and um you know they're not the dead fish and the the joy that then gives to you know and as I said we've got two beautiful grandchildren who aren't no carb and but they don't have much carb and all I can say is that they are too healthy children but I'm not going to say they're exceptional even though you know the grandfather they are but nonetheless all I can say is there are no detrimental effects either through the pregnancy for a low carb lifestyle and it's the most powerful tool in gestational diabetes as well and it's just starting to be talked about yeah and babies actually thrive in the embryo unusual actually thrive in a state of ketosis it's brain development is critical on ketosis I think you know we're just starting to open up and I get into trouble because I open up Pandora's Box and then I give it a kick and sort of once you know we talked about this beforehand you know everything in nutritional science in fact most things in medicine but I'll say everything in nutritional science what we've been told you poke that pack of that house of cards and it just keeps tumbling down over and over and over and so it is really just and when you realize it's just all been made up and backed by the food industry and then you know the Journal of nutrition and was you know started by the food industry a nutritional science was to actually improve the profitability the palatability and the shelf life of food had nothing to do with health we let that slip into medical literature saying nutritional science is Health Science got enough troubles with medical and health science for being floored not being able to repeat it but when we actually listen improving food palatability profitability and shelf life then became Health Science I mean you know I keep coming back to swearing I'm making me do it Anthony I'm sorry well once you see it you can't answer it yeah that's the quote that's it you know once you can't unknow it you just see it you get over and over and over and it's the same players and then you start you know um you know I've presented to a food labeling inquiry from the Senate food labor inquire okay stop putting out of prop pictures of animals on plant-based food because over 40 percent of the Australian population is not literate I can't read the Food Level so if you've got a chicken on the food label they all think it's too good you can write whatever you want saying it's plant-based chicken so we've actually had to win there so there's that's a good note you know so here's a little guy presenting to a senate inquiry presented all this work about to and so now there's been a change in the food labeling laws in Australia that the process the plant-based food companies I cannot by law put a picture of a chicken a cow or a pig 40 of the population in theory um because of food labeling law so did I ever think I'd be you know as an orthopedic surgeon presenting material on food labor into a cell inquiry no but um got some stories to tell the grandkids one day yeah at the moment they just think we're crazy grandparents [Laughter] that's a good rep you'll have to you have to uh to to uh you know really try and reinforce that you know get the get the rock star status out of it you know all these crazy things that you you and Belinda do um I think there are four sizes of parent-child relationships you know I don't think you've got any you haven't entered into having their own children yet and the first phase is when children think their parents are gods and that's and then then the second phase is teenage years or the parent the children think their parents are idiots then the third phase is where the children think the parents actually are actually know some stuff and then the Final Phase is When the Children think their parents really it's again so we're very comfortably in phase three at the moment uh good and um not totally embarrassed to have the surname yeah I I didn't realize a couple of years ago I wish I should you know this is how stupid I am you know with German it's a German name is fat so somehow the effect I have the key to Fat yeah right I was born into actually being a troublemaker I didn't have any choice yeah exactly um there's a there's a great Mark Twain quote where he said uh you know when I was um when I was 11 you know I just thought my dad was just an idiot and didn't know anything and when I was 21 I I was amazed at how much he'd learned in that time it's absolutely and um well that sort of brings me into the other question I had um you know you're talking about you know pregnancy and ketosis in children infants and the fetus actually being in a state of ketosis and that being important for brain development obviously I get a lot of questions from uh pregnant women or expect or or people that are trying to conceive they're saying you know is this safe is this safe to have to be in ketosis be on a carnivore diet during pregnancy what about my kids is this is this safe for them what would you say when someone if someone asks you that I think the diet you require is one that is nutritionally complete without unnecessary additives so nutritionally complete our body requires complete proteins complete healthy fats micronutrients vitamins minerals and again come back there's no biochemical pathway in the body that requires ingested ingested glucose or foot test the guy wrote The Definitive study on that looked happy a Swiss um a biochemist I actually flew all the way to Sydney he was actually presenting at the Coca-Cola meeting strangely enough to say that fructose by itself isn't the the cause of obesity I agree of course it was and that's why Coca-Cola boarding that I flew all the way to Sydney just so I could ask him the question that I knew would be ordered the answer and I warning that I was going to answer ask him the question of lunch I said so publicly in front of the entire Coca-Cola industry so Professor Taffy is there a human biochemical requirement for ingested fructose he went no it was a loaded question he knew it but I said any of those scouting from the podium because I wasn't allowed to ask him but anyway and he talked about they talk about us being a cult go to a Coca-Cola industry meeting whoa I put my hand up at the beginning to ask a question uh Dr Gary vetkin Tasmanian entire audience and it turned around and um so I thought cool I know who I am a couple of months ago I was kind of anyway so the that's what you require um so when um that's what we require as humans and that's what we require is developing um uh a fetus developing embryo and our body and our development is dependent on ketones and proteins problem glucose so our daughter was pregnant with our second grandchild she had morning sickness which prompted me to actually look at this and there's a little talk on YouTube about it that's part of other talks but essentially she had severe morning sickness and couldn't eat so therefore that's fasting and she was in a state of ketosis and so therefore I thought actually this would be interesting to see what are the results of outcome on development on women with morning sickness so if you want to design a study what you'd like to do is lots of people you'd like to do it on the most critical time of growth and development which is the embryo okay you'd never get this past an Ethics Committee by the way right you just couldn't possibly do it you know so I want to experiment on unborn babies yeah yeah forget it so I thought you know and you want a multi-center and you want to reproduce them all across International borders and so I look okay I'm gonna look this up and guess what we have the results of tens of thousands of babies that have been born whether mothers had severe morning sickness it's been well and truly documented so as it turns out the more severe the old wives tale is you know and I'm not being sentenced for that turned the old wife's telling is that if you put severe morning sickness the baby will be fine well guess what literature well and truly supports that so the more severe your morning sickness diversity is the more likely you are to be in ketosis fasting and not getting any nutrition let alone good Protein healthy fats the better the outcomes so you're more likely to get women are more likely to go through the term children are more likely to have um uh normal weight less likely to have congenital abnormalities it's like we have complications and more likely to be developed in developing normally we've also been able to experiment with the same unknown unborn babies by looking at gestational diabetes which gets more severe through pregnancy but nonetheless so taking a high glucose carbohydrate diet getting into the baby because that's what it is it's done elevated by glucose so they've been studied again tens of thousands of results the women more likely to miscarry more likely to not get through the term babies very high birth weights very low birth weights more likely to have congenital abnormalities and particularly the cardiovascular ones which are related to environment not the genetic ones and they're more likely to have babies that are sick prior to getting obesity diabetes and have learning difficulties in ADHD so the study has already been done that went out I think this must be my one-on-one covert you know talk so I thought I'm going to do some research and do this because of my daughter so I had a vested interest you know look I thought and she was worried because she couldn't and at the rest of the time she was and so women again anecdotally have been looked at through this and it's been um uh have done very well the babies have done well but if you take the most extreme form of a ketogenic diet which is that which is morning sickness actually the better the outcomes is in the long and short of it and the study's already been done on tens of thousands of women and their babies so when you forget the Ethics Committee so yeah and then for for children as well I mean I know that uh you know during breastfeeding uh children are actually in ketosis so does that continue on is that is that uh to be preferred in uh um against my talk I credit them with that information so uh embryo fetus uh definitely in ketosis uh in growing inside the mother and the up until about two and a half three years of age child will drift into ketosis very quickly um by about four or five they start developing into a more of an adult picture to get into ketosis will take a little time so the most formative years of a childhood embryo fetus early development is actually based on the child being significant amounts of time in ketosis um so I just don't think it's dangerous that's a normal State and you know we evolved by not having seven meals a day you know we didn't get to the top theoretically we're at the top of the food chain I think that's about to go backwards but it's another moment of philosophy we've got another hour anyway so um we got to the top of the food chain by you know by evolutionary eating which was eating when we had access to food and not eating when we didn't so we spent um you know and it's not about you know saying we're just going to go back and be just eating the wild animal and hunting themselves but eating in that way is not harmful to us yeah and it's it's uh and again so if you're encouraging people to have a complete diet a nutritionally complete diet I'm sorry to the rest of the world but you require an animal-based food and if you eat from tip to tail nose to tail in a respectful fashion an animal that's been cared for and when I'm not that makes me not a proponent of factory farming I mean I was carefully saying that and here in Australia we have fabulous ability I I talk about this we really should be eating respectfully we live in an environment where we're able to eat well really it will and it's disrespectful to the rest of the world if we don't look after the way we eat so we can have well-read healthy animal-based diets and get the health benefits of it and so to have it rammed down our throats that we should be having a plant-based time which is a good animal-based diet is actually beneficial to the planet and the environment you know the animal welfare and the nutrients you know the urine and the feces that drop back onto the grounds actually puts nutrition back into the soil a plant-based diet actually robs nutrition of the soil the biggest agricultural export in the world is actually topsoil because our plant-based agricultural practice and the vegans will argue oh lots of that's going about feeding animals in feedlots unfortunately it is but again we can we can change that equation by farming our grasslands I've spoken to the meat industry they would love to respectfully Farm our national forests not trampled in the ground and guess what that would that would get rid of our Bushfire risk yeah we can be smarter about this and that's all I'm talking about we just got Smarter with what we eat Smarter with what we teach Smarter with what we live and in the process of that we'll actually look at the entire environment as well yeah absolutely have you caught up with Peter balusters I have yeah absolutely I must have missed that one Peter's coming out here in October offer for a low carb Sydney he's also coming at low-carb launce system no there's no conference but he's gonna spend a few days with us and I think we're going to go we're going down without Bush for a few days oh nice so yeah Peter's fabulous on that whole topic of where it sits in the animal agricultural industry yeah I really I really like Peter as well I came across his stuff I think four or five years ago now and uh definitely like it I have um I did have him on the podcast last year and so I I encourage people to to watch that one when the people talk about the environment and you know Cal's bad it was it sustainable for you know eight billion people to to eat meat and I was like yes absolutely in fact it's important for us to do that and here's why and so I send them send them that that video I did with him oh Peter's um I'm just asking for an update because he's got actually a four page document with every vegan argument and counterpoints oh really yeah it's fabulous website or where is that he'd forgotten he had it until I asked him where's the updated one so I send it oh please do yeah I've got version seven so I said I always version like he said I haven't done one for a while but I need to update that so yeah so if it comes my way but I think what I've done is I've prompted him to actually just update the document that he's already done and again as we came back to it I actually think people who travel at vegan pathway are well intention that take an interest in their own health they're exploring their well-being they're exploring what information is available to them and um and they're on a health Journey and lots of the speakers in the low carb Carnival space have actually been experience yeah true and you know I'm not going to name them because some of them I don't know if they've made it public but um and in that low carb space you know if you go to a conference dinner most people have been speaking in this space for 10 years or so I've all moved towards being pretty well Carnival I remember a buffet up in the Gold Coast year or two ago everyone just came out with just piles of meat you know it's just not dead food and we just all looked at each other and went okay okay I I am an omnivore like I will have some because it makes Belinda happy and it does add a bit of color to the plate but I don't think I've been an omnivore for about a week so but other reasons for that so I always batching yeah that's a simple answer I was batching yeah but uh but I did take whatever greens I found I took it out to the Chuck Garden I'll get that back as an animal-based product until he said let's recycle it recycle it up it's a fascinating Journey as you know and welcome to it you know that's really what yeah yeah definitely well it's been it's been a very you know interesting and enlightening time for me um you know doing the podcast and being able to speak to people like yourself and and to Peter well I found you know very interesting seeing your talks and being inspired by them and now getting a chance to speak to you as well has been been an absolute pleasure um I I don't want to take up all of your time um but you know I did want to um well I just wanted to uh just touch on a couple things and then maybe if um if you had time for it I don't know if you're suffer time or if you're okay I've actually put a slow cook um silver side um beef on but it's it it's not out yet okay the boss is looking after it okay okay all right um well it was just it was just a couple other questions to do with with sugar in particular and and fructose um and the harms of it I know you've done uh you have a a website no fructose.com is that right or um novelt.com which is well and truly out of diet I've got to admit I've just I'm so far behind on keeping that one up to scratch but the principles and guess what biochemistry doesn't change you know it's there it's and biochemistry how it moves into into our bodies doesn't change yeah people say can't you update that talk and go no yeah can you update the Krebs cycle for me yeah while you're at it yeah and then I keep saying in an orthopedic surgeon you know even someone doing neurosurgery can understand the Krebs cycle you know we're not talking about page 500 in the physiology books we're talking about page 20. yeah now it's not and it is I just saw some professor of nutrition in in the U.S uh shoot himself in the foot I went to a diabetes meeting here in Australia a couple of years ago it was a professor of nutrition and she got up there in her talk and um so look I I've really not that good on the Krebs cycle and then just said the most ridiculous things and um yeah that was a bit argumentative of that one because the pharmaceutical industry was that and I called out a couple of speakers for their vested interests I mean it's just so flaming obvious when if if someone's promoting medication and drugs over healthy living it did just start searching and you find out that they're being paid for by the pharmaceutical in the food industry anyway so I was you know this woman realized I was a bit aggro and she her husband intervened I said just can't get up there and say stuff like that maybe you can't get up and say oh you don't know what you're talking about and then B come out with stuff which is that you've now lectured to 200 people involved in diabetes in the strip and obesity in Australia and just told them crap and I get into trouble for calling it out but why am I the only person in 300 there saying you just gave out crap because all the rest are students I'm sorry it just drives me insane because I'm talking about basic biochemistry anyway so I digress as you've already worked out that's pretty easy for me to do it but but it's good that someone does you know because there were 300 people there and you were the only one but at the same time one is enough you know and you saying that and raising those points at least some of those 300 people are going to think okay wait we'll wait a minute hold on that those are some good points certainly point three percent I need another 10 people with me to get up to the three percent but the following week we were back at the farmers market here in Lonnie and someone [Music] Sunday School in Melbourne who's now a pharmaceutical rep and he caught up with a farmers market said was Gary in Melbourne last week so already the farmer the diabetes pharmaceutical industry we're discussing this bad guy from Tasmania that was calling everyone out so yes we are calling yeah we say regularly we are not going to change everything but it's really hard to go to sleep with a mosquito in the room and that that's all we are and if we can just keep annoying that out of everyone then we'll keep doing it yeah whilst we're still having fun I think we're still having fun okay I think it sounds like fun anyway it shouldn't be funny so I I'm so naive I thought this would be all over 10 years ago oh this book class thing oh the Krebs cycle everyone will work that out yeah no no well but like you say you know I mean there are so many vested interests that that are making literally trillions dollars I think the sugar industry mix uh well last I heard uh Dr lustig in one of his books said 1.3 trillion dollars a year rather than just the sugar industry you know and so processed food and everything else that comes off of that is going to be making even more than that well the biggest fruit exports in the world of um bananas and oranges foreign by that stuff yeah unnecessarily yeah right well and and that was uh you know bring me your your your um talk about fruit you know is it good for you that's something that I think is really interesting because there are a lot of you know people who do espouse a carnivore diet but then they sort of come like you know keto low carb and then carnivore and then they go oh wait but fruit and honey you know that's okay so they eat meat and fruit and honey which I still think is better than almost anything else they could do but but I you know I would be interested to hear your thoughts on on the front side of things well if you are going to eat fruit and honey a fresh local I mean why dietary guidelines which has actually gone to the United show MRC because I've couldn't extended a few million dollars doing it I said look I'll write them for you just give me two million I'll be happy and here's the dietary guidelines for Australia and the world in one sentence eat fresh local seasonal Whole Food based on your culture and environment avoiding added sugar and processed food pretty simple and it's pretty simple when you actually work out what I've actually said it's a very safe statement it's actually low carb it's actually animal based because the only thing which is seasonally available all year round are animals fruit is very much a seasonal product so um my very safe one sentence is actually very descriptive when you take it apart but when it comes to fruit I say look it's really simple fruit contains glucose and fructose but the fructose component will make you hungry and um and the the health benefits of fruit are clearly overstated when you look at a micronutrient level clearly other products animal-based Foods even vegetables green leafy vegetables Smash Fruit for nutrients well and truly and in fact historically we used to have green grasses we didn't have fruit and veg sections used to go to the green grasses so the term fruit and veg is actually a new term brought around by the food industry based on a topic in 1999 a meeting in the Baja Financial California in 1991 between the American Cancer Council and 44 well a little bit wrong on that number well-meaning industry bodies including McDonald's and Walmart and that group's now up to 200 odd and essentially it's the food industry and in that topic they came up with if you eat more fruit and veg then you're going to have less cancer that's a historical picture of a 1991 Baja Peninsula and so then there was an epic study out of Europe it started about that time to look at quartiles of fruit and vegetable consumption in Europe and then looking at cancer outcomes and 21 years down the track there are no difference whatso didn't change it at all when they went back to look at the data it was available to the 1991 that actually socioeconomic status was actually the bigger predictor of cancer outcomes but if you're a higher socioeconomic status you actually bought more fruit and veg so it was the confounder which nobody looked at but accepted and set us off on this wild goose chase of the last 30 40 years to actually to turn five a day is completely made up yeah it just came out of nowhere some countries it's seven days some places it's three plus two some places five plus two it's completely made up number Zoe Harkins got a theory on it someone said has anybody got any ideas of how it should be what we should come up with they put their hand up oh five okay five a day that's probably as much science as in it yeah um you know it's a bit like having four square meters around everyone in covert I don't know we're not going to talk about code but it's I actually couldn't find any science behind it so four square meters I've worked out is about the space if you get within four square meters then you'll be able to identify who farted again this is no when you start scratching the surfaces you've become a complete doubter you know like you know distance social distance it's 1.5 meters in some places it's 1.2 and others one meter another two meters another 1.8 literally all over the place no science behind it five a day no science behind it fruit and veg causes all these things and protect us no science behind it all funded pretty well by the food industry to promote their product for profitability shelf life um so um other Foods smash that so over time the food industry has actually increased the sugar content of that food so it improves shelf life it's decreased uh the fiber content on it let's call another topic five minutes decrease fiber content because the amount of fiber in the food actually causes more more damage than decreases the shelf life um I saw an issue because of tangent the third biggest greenhouse gas producer in the world after China and the US is food waste right of which the vast majority of that is fruit and veg not available so the benefits of fruit are well and truly overstated and I say that it's overstated in nature and it's overstated in science um like a fruit that is advertises Itself by getting brighter and shinier red orange yellow when it's at its peak sugar content why does it advertise itself to be eaten by birds and animals and humans so we will propagate the seed so its survival mechanism is to get brighter shinier and sugrier so we'll propagate and see the fruit hasn't worked out but it's not smart enough to work out that we're dropping it seed into a porcelain Bowl but it will one day you know that's that's evolutionary I stop it it's just a waste of time um so we've got this um so it advertises itself but look at food labeling in the supermarket the brighter the shinier it is and the more prominent it is in the eye you know which is all process junk food lots of chocolates and shiny packets do you ever see you know packets of healthy you know some muesli in this dark black packet going this might kill you know it's like tobacco but it just doesn't have it so fruit advertise itself in nature for our benefit and it's advertised in the supermarket for its benefit but it's actually of no benefit to us whatsoever it's only beneficial to the fruit all the fruit supplier and the me and the reason behind that if we come back to fructose fructose drives Behavior so a ito's got multiple Pathways so we've had quite a bit about glucose fructose is only as I say dependently described in 2010 might be 11 11 might be the paper but I looked happy that's why I went caught up with him personally if I have a website called no filter so I should actually have a meeting with the guy who actually described the metabolism fructose so so anyway he um so has multiple things that it does it will actually stimulate the brain that the hypothalamus to make you hungry as a negative so leptins are hormone produced by if you've got too much fat the body is leptin I don't know I know I know you know this stuff but when you've got fat in the body it produces a hormone called leptin which goes to your brain and says you don't need to eat anymore you've got plenty on board when glypton levels drop down you'll get hungry fructose will inhibit that effect of leptin on the brain so it'll effectively make you hungry ghrelin's a hormones secreted by the stomach which gives you the rumbly stomach and will make you hungry fructose stimulates that fructose also once it starts getting into the gut into the small intestine it actually starts up regulating The receptors which allow it to get into the body which makes sense that the body actually went at a time of Plenty so fruits seasonally available if you're an animal if you're driven to eat the fruit and you'll be insatiable about it that's why possums will strip a fruit tree beer the night before you actually want to eat it it will strip the tree bit and it will just become so you can immediately get fat so you can fatten up for winter hibernation that's why bears hibernate and then comes out and they will get fat literally the store fat we are no different and the food industry has worked out that fructose is the addictive portion of a fructose will stimulate you to actually eat more and it will set receptors off that will actually allow you to keep eating more and keep putting more and more into the system when it's no longer available it will down regulate that but food availability and sugar available is 363 days a year in Australia and you know that we get paranoid and frantic because on the night before Christmas and the day before Good Friday there is a shopping frenzy because everyone doesn't think they're going to get the sugar the following day now every person has gone to the shops on that day looking for food knows exactly what I'm talking about there's a free Feeding Frenzy because of a panic of a very primitive reflex so for me if you're going to eat fruit I know that you're going to be hungry for the next several hours after it B it's going to get stored as fat and um so it's nowhere near as beneficial for you as it's meant to be you know and things I have some frozen berries well the vitamin C component of that is gone within you know six or eight weeks of being frozen um you mentioned vitamin C and people going towards the carnivores and they drift off and they want to have their honey and they want to and they vitamin C as it turns out glucose metabolism is very dependent about vitamin C and it comes back through the fructose pathway and uric acid so one of the byproducts of fructose metabolism is uric acid a lot of people heard about uric acid because it causes gout so people who eat lots of fruit uh and lots of sugars get more gout so we've had a doubling of gout in society in the last 10 years even though people that traditionally eating less meat and drinking less so and so the only thing that's gone up is our carbohydrate intake and that's why we cooked out so uric acid is a byproduct of you of fructose metabolism fructose inhibits a thing a H there's so much biochemistry I almost need the pictures on the lecture sites so essentially you get more uric acid in that thing and uric acid actually increases blood pressure and actually makes you more anxious and actually makes you a bit hungrier um in that same pathway nitric oxide is produced and the uric acid inhibits the production of nitric oxide nitric oxide is important for keeping our blood vessels open for our blood pressure keeping our blood brain blood blood flow to upright and also critical in our immune system so fructose gets caught up in that fructose which produces uric acid it increases uric acid uric acid also decreases the production of nitric oxide which is critical so people who give up sugar and carbs literally their blood pressure comes down within days so it can really it just drops down because you stop creating all these things which raise blood pressure so you're getting me to do a lot of visual of talking about metabolic pathways which best describe so all the talks I've got to use images which are actually the layperson can understand and follow the lines the critical thing about all that is vitamin C inhibits that inhibition hmm so this is where God's really smart God's fairly this is quite a clever cup that's gone with a little G so I'm non-denominational there's a couple of really clever things about fructose metabolism ones at the uric acid level and the other ones that the small density audio the bad cholesterol particles which are a byproduct of fructose so the bad cholesterol is largely coming from fructose it's not coming from eating fats coming from fructose different pathway that all of those lectures so with God's very clever okay we've got to give him Credit in her the time when fruit is seasonally available and we're an animal because that's all we are and we are gorging ourselves on it that time is normally towards the end of summer autumn and the vitamin C that comes with fruit is an antidote to some of the harm that it's actually causing at the uric acid level so if you don't eat sugar or carbohydrate you don't need much vitamin C right so one of the problems of early exploration around the world and the problems of scurvy was that the sailors were being fed gruel um the gruel then brought mice around the rest of the world and rats and you know all that but essentially scurvy was a byproduct of the diet of the sailors if we take the um uh the very northern European explorers uh the Vikings they didn't go around they didn't get scurvy because our reading made products animal bites so carbohydrates if you don't eat carbohydrate you probably don't need much vitamin C the small amount that you might need actually comes in the meat that we eat so it's not a small amount we actually noted a tiny amount of it the other point in that whole fructose metabolism pathway is that when the small dense LDL that lipid particle which then gets into the sub into more layer of the blood vessels and then becomes oxidized and I've cut there's a lot in that term but the inflammatory byproduct of fructose which sits in the blood vessel world or is encompassed by a mast cell or a foam cell and actually tries to to um uh to settle that inflammation take those particles out Down Under the effects of that's that's those cells that require vitamin D so vitamin D associated with sunlight so again the time if we're going to eat fructose if we're an animal is at the end of the summer beginning of autumn and it's going to come with two antidotes to some of the byproducts one is it's going to come with some vitamin C which affects helps that uric acid nitric oxide pathway and it will come with stimulating the cleanup mechanism of the sub-endable layer so again I for one of a bit of term I'll use the term God's very clever but we were not meant to actually eat fructose all year round in the animal kingdom the same thing goes with honey honey is half glucose well in fact it's a bit more fructose I think depending on types of 55 fructose 45 glucose that's why it tastes sweeter than sugar if you want to as a hunter-gatherer a climb a tree break into a wild beehive and then suck break that open with your hands destroying the nest and then sucking the honey out of it that good luck to you honey is not supposed to be available to you all year round in a glass jar in your pantry well again it's just glucose and fructose and again it comes down to biochemistry if you want to eat this stuff if you want to eat fructose understand it's going to drive Behavior it's going to make you fat if you want to eat glucose understand it's going to have an effect on your blood vessel walls immediately it's going to give you the mild reaction it's going to be stored as fat and it's going to be stored along with inflammation for those Advanced glycation but fine you can do that but you're going to pay a price for it over a period of time I've paid the price we're all paying it as a society right now if you want to have a lot of fructose and if you've got to eat glucose 30 of it gets converted back into fructose if you're overweight um if you're overweight or your blood glucose is above or pre-diabetic you would end up with 30 of the glucose coming back into fructose which I call the runaway train then you add in Napoleon saturated acetyls and that's that what I call Nutritional model of inflammation in modern disease and welcome to the trouble I got into just making up a model all I'm saying is if you do the opposite of it cut the refined carbohydrates cut your sugar out and drop the seed oils which have a four year Half-Life in your body you will be healthier and guess what people that's what happens and um it's it's just simple biochemistry but it it goes against The Narrative of what's in our textbooks because the textbooks have been written by industry yeah well that's very interesting too I hadn't heard that about the glucose being like 30 of the glucose being converted into fructose as well by the polio pathway that was done originally in the 1970s using um cataracts that information I can still remember um dick Richard Johnson who's a nephrologist over in the US he's actually written a few great books around that whole topic is just a very learned man about fructose and uric acid and I read one of his papers I still remember Joe Grant Schofield over in New Zealand Greg's a professor of Public Health over there we're in a little lecture over there that is and I handed this across to Grant and he just went oh excuse the language but it was just loud enough in the midst of a lecture that the professor was heard it saying oh I said here's a key you know and um and I was I got to meet Richard Johnson at that meeting and I've got a copy of this book called The Fat chairs which actually talks a bit a lot about hibernation concept and what happens when we come out of hibernation there's so much to learn from the Animal Kingdom and wear photos and glucose comes into the overall equation and again you can't argue with all this biochemistry because it's reproducible and it's done by Nerdy people who aren't making money you know it's literally yeah I'm an enthusiastic mature age student I mean I I don't know to be fair I actually didn't understand biochemistry at Uni oh it didn't make any attention I knew all about that Krebs cycle and that you know okay all out on butcher's paper you know just all drawn out here whatever and I knew enough to pass the exam but I didn't understand the relevance of it one of the other byproducts of uric acid of Fructis is putting travels down an aldehyde pathway effectively gets turned into alcohol one of the causes of what happens without some of the changes delivered one of the causes there's a few others through liquid metabolism but um so therefore you'll actually see um some you know go to the wildlife shows and watch monkeys getting drunk on eating fruit and if you actually drunk you feel lethargic and so if you have a diet which is high in sugar it's high in a fructose it is another one of the reasons contributing to our state of Lethy in society I'm not saying it's the only reason but we are affected we've got a society which is half drunk with the amount of sugar that we're having and I'm sorry it's just biochemistry yeah and just if you actually drink alcohol that actually inhibits glucagon it's a really interesting thing about I've done the experiment I was proofreading Zoe Harkins book called the diet fix fabulous book it's only about 20 pages about what to it it's another the rest of the book is about why people don't lose weight hold on all the other reasons all the other things that come into it it's an easy group three plug for Zoe's book but I think it's just creating a nature but there was one paragraph one sentence in there talking about alcohol so I spoke to Zoe I said where'd this come from she said because I said I can't find it but effectively if you drink alcohol I don't know if you've heard this stuff about alcohol and glucose I got into trouble at low carb USA I was giving a Podium and I said actually know how alcohol works and affects your weight and the entire audience told me to shut up so you haven't told me to shut up so I'll keep going so glucagon's the other half of insulin again glucagon is the one that raises your blood glucose so when you're not eating it actually keeps your blood glucose up when you drink alcohol it comes up before and weighing into the liver and it's an incredible insult to the liver so the liver will actually stop all of its activity and will actually just get rid of the toxin gets rid of the alcohol remembering fructose gets turned into aldehyde and spends a whole lot of time trying to get rid of that alcohol anyway but when you drink alcohol everything pretty well shuts down apart from getting rid of the alcohol so the glucagon works in the liver to actually raise blood glucose when it's inhibited so glucone works in the liver and one of the place that does it breaks down the visceral chain of fat so it releases glucose and bloodstream when alcohol is liver your blood glucose you can't it just stops producing it yeah I've done that experiment on myself with a glucose CGM and I said they're not being a couple of lovely meals what are you having for dinner I'm ready to have dinner I said no I'm just gonna have two glasses of your mum's white wine which is sitting in the fridge she said no I'm going to dinner I said no I'm just going to have two glasses of white ones I hadn't eaten all day exercised on the farm whatever I had two glasses of white wine what happened to my blood glucose come down went down dropped so everyone's I'm not everyone but a lot of people had that experience of coming in hot day have a glass of Grog feel really light-headed I don't think it's the alcohol doing anything I think it's your blood glucose dropping down now my blood glucose stayed relatively down all night for right through to bacon and extra breakfast Apollo morning so I had at least a 12 hour effect and that's another experiment study I want to do on 50 medical students I want them to drink alcohol with a CGM on I just need time right but anyway so what the phenomena that happened is I was hungry all night because my blood glucose was down and this may explain why you have a night out of town and you might go out and eat a meal but on the way home you'll still got the munchies and just stopped through a kebab or a pizza or whatever or you have ice cream when you get home which potentially is because I'm just trying to get your blood glucose up so if my glucagon's not working and it's not breaking down fat then it has to break down something else so the only thing that can break down is muscle I think therefore and it will break down skeletal muscle and break down cardiac muscle the flow-on effect from that is if you look at the Alcove it's got a really big gut because it's got not alcoholic fatty liver disease it's got all this adiposity all this fat around his internal organs they often have really skinny arms skinny legs do you know you have a picture and I've got cardiac travels and it may be there's chronic Pathways of actually producing all this visceral fat but they're actually they're glucagon has been inhibited the point of not actually um um not actually being able to burn the fat so I'm going to protein the two other take-home messages from that is when um this may be the benefit of that red wine so people say oh there's benefits of having red wine I'm not actually advocating this but nonetheless you have some sugar and carbs through your meal the Mediterranean bread rice the pasta vegetables the front glucose is going up but there may be a group of anti-glucan got effect by having that by the glass of red wine with it may actually bring it back down so maybe sort of you may have one coming up and the other one coming down that tends to be a stabilizing that's purely a theory I think that whole message of glucagon is actually confirmed when you listen to people say I couldn't lose weight until I dropped alcohol um I can't really say so in my book when people are trying to lose weight by doing low carb as Eric Westman will say they're not doing it that's number one so I think lots of people are trying but not doing it right the next one is portion size so I say what you need on your plate is the size of your fist and most people have got two or three fist sizes on their plate so a it's either you're not doing it B is fists it's portion size C is alcohol or did something strange never forget something strange but ask those three questions that covers virtually everyone every time so how much do you put on your plate well if you drink alcohol uh okay yeah so I've got a long story with that but essentially one of my colleagues was losing weight and his wife wasn't and I said to her look I know you have a couple of glasses don't you take that away from me that's all I have yeah I have I've got him and I've got two glasses of wires anyway so um cut a long story short she came in a couple of months later I said you look great she said I hate you I said Vicky lost eight kilos a few months I actually lost 14 kilos nice and I told him she looked hot yeah I immediately got on the phone after she left my office I rang Belinda and said I've just told someone so she looked up and I rang up my colleague and said I've just talked so that she looks like just started clarifying that as I did actually say it yeah but but it's really interesting the only thing she changed and the only thing a lot of people change is the alcohol what I'm doing is I'm putting some biochemistry behind it yeah and again people don't want to know the biochemistry because if the biochemistry is there and I'm right then it means a lot of us have made a mistake for a long time yeah I'm sorry sorry that I've plagued you with this talk tonight no no that was great no I think it's really important to say sorry well there might be a lot of people saying it I think you might have to say sorry to for taking away their their alcohol I have never taken away anyone's fruit food yeah all you can do is give people the information yeah that's one of the things one of the things that oh you took away people's food I said I've never done that yeah just I I don't yeah I'll give you you know I might point out all sorts of things about it I actually might draw on your banana the percentage of sugar in it yeah I've never never taken it away that's a great one what's got more sugar in it bananas or Coca-Cola that is a good question I'm I'm gonna well you so Coca-Cola is about 10 yeah apples are about 10 percent banana 16 to 24 depending on how ripe it is okay I said you know there's a great line of people having banana because they're trying to get their potassium you know that's another myth um so you can get potassium better but not okay it's just you know much better ways than doing it I said well why don't you just have Coca-Cola I'm never going to drink that garbage so I'm having more sugar and what you're eating there yeah yeah exactly or the um or the getting eating carrots for for vitamin A which doesn't exist in Plants anyway it's beta-carotene and uh something that I that I learned the other day I found a couple studies talking about this but actually 45 percent of people cannot convert beta-carotene into Vitamin A so they have to eat uh actual they have to get retinol from from animal sources which is sort of you know shows you the biological you know our biological nature you know 45 of people cannot get uh vitamin A retinol out of beta-carotene so you literally you know 50 of the population has to eat meat has to right because I knew about the pathway I didn't know the percentage which is really it's just but isn't it fascinating that we're still learning yeah yeah that's the um I haven't been excited by an orthopedic conference for at least 15 years maybe 20. maybe a couple I got up there and actually used the word negligence if you keep operating on people for the wrong reasons so I found that exciting value because of all the knives being thrown at me yeah I don't invite trouble I just invite truth unfortunately but they seem to come hand in hand yeah as you well know I've talked about this in recent times and you don't even know sometimes why you're in trouble hmm yeah well it's just somebody somebody gets upset about what you say so they wanted they want to make trouble as you see it and you know in your and you know and for people that don't know um you know you were attacked quite maliciously by the the uh the medical board and the nutritional establishment in Australia and the press and social media and as I said my own hospital administrator yeah I was posting stuff on a web hate page about me you can't have the chief exec medical officer of your hospital writing defamatory stuff about you on social media identifying himself it's just this is crazy yeah and yet the system was allowing us and I I just I still don't get it but finally common sense uh and this is what I I still every time get the opportunity to thank the people for actually getting me off because it's only the people's response and they're getting that support from the community and the medical board being put under public pressure like the amount of people that wrote stuff on their pages and wrote to them and emailed them or whatever it was there was a public outcry which then you know took another couple of years before all that sorted itself out but yeah so social media is a powerful tool can be used in multiple ways and at present whilst we still have the ability to have relatively free speech in this medium we should keep going with this message yeah definitely right well um Gary has been an absolute pleasure I I don't want to monopolize your night I know you have a a real Skilling so uh thank you so much for taking so much time to speak with us it's been an absolute pleasure yeah and um what are you up to now what are your current projects and and where can people find you and find your work um the most of the talks you'll find on YouTube um there are other talks floating around different spaces I'm on Twitter I find it's the easiest place to be a bit naughty um Linda took over my Facebook page some years ago because we just changed it from Gary Fick you know four days and I just literally crossed the line and changed it to Belinda because approach didn't have any jurisdiction over her that's just pretty well the thing one finger extended mentalities of the system um and I'm on Instagram but I don't understand that and uh and people seem to track me down no matter what how much I might try and hide here in Tasmania so look we we believe in it that's all and in the passage of time we might be proven wrong on several areas but on the overall thing I think we've seen the big picture of the jigsaw puzzle we're on the right track yeah um people are filling in some of the spaces the sky and the Sea on it but the overall big picture hasn't changed and as you you're just finding more information that just to keep supporting the fact that our way out of this is to eat fresh local seasonal Whole Food and if you're going to do that properly it's going to be predominantly animal based and it can be done and I mentioned Peter's work and I I think the fascinating thing is how much grassland we're not utilizing on this planet 20 of Our Land is Our is potentially farmable in a respectful way without stripping it yeah I think there's there's hope for the future whether or not we're all here or not I don't yeah well if we get our act together then then we will be and other people will be as well but I guess that's that's why we're doing this sort of thing is to get the word out there and and to sort of head off the The Strange agendas that seem to want to is everyone sick and feeble and malnourished so uh well done finding a good flight um I was sort of saying just only last week when there was a fight occurring in a debate I said we we shouldn't use those terms I'd like why can't we just keep discussing it and here are the results and one of our agendas probably our agenda is Brian and I we've talked about this openly what's our end game we don't know what our end game is we're still having fun but we'd like to see that low carb as soon as a safe and viable option that should be supported for those people that need to do it but whether or not it's a little bit of low carb or it's a little bit less processed food or it's hardcore low carb keto Carnival actually so there's a safe option for those people that want to choose it that's it and um let people make informed decisions not based on the supermarket advertising and the pharmaceutical industry which is completely consistently our medical profession into prescribing drugs over lifestyle lifestyle medicine but I didn't yeah well I fully agree with that and you know as long as people just understand what's out there and they're you know I mean like I said to people I don't I don't care if you smoke or drink I just don't want you to smoke and drink because you think it's good for you you think you're supposed to smoke and drink you know and that then that's what people are doing now they're eating the wrong things and they have no idea that the wrong things just being told one thing and unfortunately it's the wrong thing and I just want I just want people to be uh you know just to have have a bit more information and be able to make the choice for themselves and it sounds like you're in the same boat there's a few of us on it now hasn't sunk yet yeah exactly well it's getting bigger too you know we are we are starting to get get uh more people on this so uh that's always very encouraging I was talking to uh Paul Mason he was saying you know what do you think you think is growing I was like oh I think it is he's like I think we're just in a bubble you know Echo chamber we're just talking to ourselves but you know I've seen people um you know patients I've just been in the Ed just just seeing you know someone with a shunt dysfunction and so with like a VP shunt and then he was talking to him about him worked up or bring him to the hospital for revision surgery and uh and I came back I just forgot to ask him one thing came back and then all of a sudden he just goes hey can I ask you a question like do you happen to just only eat meat and I'm like yeah why why do you ask that and he's like well actually follow you on social media I've seen your videos I really like them I was like okay that's kind of weird so you know when random patients in the emergency department at 2 A.M you know we're starting to starting to get the message I think that's a good sign I think that's a sign that that people are starting to pay attention I I come back to where we started here in Australia as we can buy low carb beer yeah right and there are I posted the other day about that I happen to be in um uh Kmart and they were in past the bookshelf and books for sale and there was one keto cookbook and beside it there were a pile of vegan cookbooks which weren't selling yeah good so the fact is that they're and I recognize that that polarizing topics vegan Carnival vegan low-carb Keto but the fact is that there's I think there's been a plateauing of the whole vegan vegetarian movement and there's an escalate you know I think one level's here and low carb keto carnivores doing this and the only reason that it's doing that is it works yeah daily reasons doing that is it's not sustainable yeah and you know um yeah I I get it three and so we're not alone anymore yeah I think so and what do you need a vegan cookbook for anyway you know just like take yard waste put it in a bag like I mean that's basically it you know what are you what are you cooking what you're doing is intervening between the supermarket and the Chuck out yeah yeah um I get it but go to the supermarket and buy all that for the chickens or just let the chickens free rein which they do here and they are Mighty carnivores yeah yeah find it find a mouse put a mouse in with a chill guard whoa yeah you'll see them in carnivore action yeah all right and if you let them free range they keep the mouse population down yeah I did not know that but that's that's kind of terrifying yeah and um they will they are they are they will eat they'll eat the meat and they'll eat the worms and I'll scratch the ground the bugs and that's it primary food source and the rest is all sort of yeah I heard the great description how to gatherers you know how do people go out hunting if they don't get anything they'll gather a bit of stuff on the way back yeah right yeah for survival not for thriving you know eating eating to survive eating to thrive and one's an animal based diet and the other one's plant-based very true yeah and um you know even more recently than the than the dinosaurs but have the the well on the last mass extinction well the megafauna died out we lost a lot of these giant 12 foot tall giant carnivorous birds in South America and Central America and here in Australia oh really did you have to hear them uh monotremes but essentially with we have um a whole lot of animals which are the size of um you know an elephant yeah right roaming the planes and uh our ancestors uh hunted them out right yeah so um I'm just rereading some stuff at the moment I've joined reading Jared Diamond who's written quite a few books I'm just reading them I'm going to hear Guns Germs and Steel it's 25 years old but essentially it's how we have all evolved and cultures evolved based on our land mass our latitude slightly our longitude but very much our periphery so latitudes but essentially it all comes back we have evolved based on our food and our survival we haven't based evolved based on our beliefs yeah and so again it does say 25 years old the book but I went gosh it's just as relevant to read right there you know but I'm now rereading it with the knowledge of where I've been discussing not arguing for the last 15 years ago oh okay that makes a bit of difference yes like you know you think about beta carotene 45 of people can't metabolize it okay yeah that makes sense instead of told me that 10 years ago I would have gone you know not interested yeah right yeah I don't understand the relevance of why you've even raised the question or raised a statement now I get it I get yeah wow that's a really interesting thing I hadn't thought about it before yeah definitely well great all right well Gary well thank you so much for taking the time it's been absolutely I think the sad thing about this Anthony is that I'm going to go out to the kitchen and blind's going I told you so that you would not finish in the time frame that you said yeah probably not yeah but I I now lose to that okay I said no we'll be finished in time yeah right no yeah well hopefully uh well hopefully you didn't wager too much and uh and hopefully uh you enjoyed it one of the things I try not to do is I try not to wait on things that I might or I will definitely lose it's a good uh philosophy okay thanks for your time no thank you very much I really appreciate it okay and so everyone uh please go follow uh Dr fatkey on Twitter and all the social media and and watch his videos because he has he has spoken about all these and much more in great detail with uh with with PowerPoint presentations and thought and diagrams and things like that that make things very very clear and and Belinda's work absolutely Belinda fetty um who if if you're on board with what you're doing but you want to work out why everyone else isn't on board her work is is that yeah it's absolutely integral I mean she really truly cracked the case open on I mean you sort of think oh big food they you know and they they put put out a bunch of Industry funded research and things like that so we sort of get that but um you know understanding the the origins of actually the processed food industry which started really in the religious sect with uh The Seventh-Day Adventist who then started Kellogg's cereals and all the other processed food things and sanitarian foods and and how they're still writing the curriculum and textbooks for nutritional students and lifestyle medicine doctors today so that's very important to understand exactly who we're up against and so yeah I encourage everyone to go there and for everyone else thank you very much and we'll see you next time thank you hey guys thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say if you like it then please like And subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcasts and if you're on YouTube then please hit that little bell and subscribe and that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out which should be every week if not more and if you could share this with your friends that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing thanks again guys foreign