Interview with Ede Fox The Black Carnivore!

[Music] everyone this is uh Dr Anthony chaffy I'm here today with a special guest uh ad Fox who is known as the black carnivore um ad thank you so much for coming on thanks for having me I'm really excited to have this conversation yeah um we spoke last week uh on your show and that was uh that was really great so we decided to to do another which I really appreciate uh you doing um for for people who aren't familiar with you and your work can you tell us a bit about yourself and and and what you do in the in the carnivore sphere sure thing so uh you know I kind of I got started with keto in 2015 and at the time I was in a lot of pain I was very overweight and um I just kind of was actually at an all-time high in terms of my weight and um probably at an alltime in terms of My overall health and um I finally decided like I had to do something and after you know a few different things I tried um I ended up on uh on a keto diet uh at the time we didn't even use that word I mean I was just doing low carb I was focusing on eating vegetables and meat and I wasn't eating any kind of processed products and that's what I did and um it was amazing I mean I lost the pain a lot of the inflammation a lot of the um physical problems that I was having you know kind of dissipated and I continued to lose weight and it was great um now even though I got a lot better not everything cleared up so I continued um to listen to you know talks and um you know conference like uh you know scientific well papers given at scientific conferences and that sort of thing and so I continued to hear people talking about the carnivore diet um and you know I kind of I had heard about it for a long time actually I mean even as far back as 2008 and I was even on a message board for about six months uh that was for carnivores uh but I always thought it was crazy and I just couldn't imagine that this was like the right thing to do you know I I was a person that cared about my health and so I always tried to do you know what I had been taught was the healthy thing to do so I you know made sure to eat the rainbow and got in my super vegetables and made sure I had kale and garlic and broccoli and you know all the things that we had been told every decade you know it seemed like every vegetable had its moment to shine and um you know so I I did that and then uh you know and and I continued to do it as a you know as a keto person um but you know I had heard people talking about uh you know how carnivore seemed to do something different and better that keto didn't do so I finally um I finally decided to go all in and I I really did it and um and in fact you know this is maybe interesting to note that uh the summer before I went all in on Carnivore um I so in my real life I I worked in um for um local government and I ultimately ran for City Council in my neighborhood and um you know which was a very physically grueling thing to do I mean I basically knocked on you know probably 20,000 doors I shook literally shook 10,000 in hands and in Brooklyn where I live you know all the buildings are like you know four to six stories and in New York um you know you're not required to have an elevator unless the building is over six stories so every one of these buildings I was walking up and down the stairs and many of these buildings are were designed in such a way that they have four staircases and you can't get to all the apartments going up one flight of stairs so um and I would go door knocking for you know about three or four hours a day so that summer you know because things were so stressful I actually was most perfect on my diet because I I just couldn't afford to lose out a day so even on a bad day like I didn't go home and like dive into a a pint of ice cream because that would knock me out for like another 48 hours and I just couldn't spare that kind of time so I actually was super super on point but my asthma was still getting worse and worse that summer so I was like probably the most fit I've been in my life and had the energy to do something that normally I wouldn't have um but I you know I still struggled in some areas so um I finally decided to go ahead and try carnivore and um and it was like on day two like I mean it was like a light switch I mean I felt so much better I mean it was a huge huge life-changing difference so for me I knew that this was going to be my home base and I I also figured that I would cheat and I would fall off and I would eat other stuff but I always knew that this is where I would come back to and over time it took me time to kind of um finally learn to stop cheating and falling off and just stay on it uh but you know I I really just came to realize that it just takes me too long to get myself back together and to get on it and to stop eating junk and um and I don't feel good you know when I'm not um when I'm not eating you know this way so I you know I finally just decided to kind of stick with it so you know the one thing that I think is a little bit different for me than maybe everybody else was that I had to stop Dairy and once I took out Dairy it was really like a light switch my asthma just stopped and um I had been you know my asthma was probably at its most uncontrolled right at the beginning or that transition of going from keto to carnivore I had gone to uh Urgent Care um twice that month and um and I you know like I just could not breathe at all and I would get there and I'd see you know the tech the the doctor's eyes kind of go oh my God like I can't believe how did you get here um did you walk and um and I had to go to a pulmonologist and blah blah blah and at the end of the day you know they basically said I have as um I have allergy induced asthma so basically I'm something's irritating me and that's what's you know causing all of this so when I took out the dairy it was just all gone I mean almost instantly and completely and totally so to you know to this day I do not eat dairy um and I you know when I work with people I tend to see that they um the people who have any kind of allergies or autoimmune stuff like just all Thrive when they take out Dairy but really struggle when they have it in so um so I always encourage everybody do you know try to do two weeks without see what happens and if you decide you feel better but you don't care about feeling that much better you'd rather have the cheese than you know have the cheese yeah something I I've noticed as well um is you know some people just simply do have have a problem with dairy um I I don't have as much problem with that but I do have asthma and I do notice that uh it's just not as as as good as you know if I'm if I'm having more dairy uh I actually noticed that as well with greens I I was just I just last of my of the greens in my diet once I got rid of those my asthma was gone I I would get like very red eyes and to the point that it looked like had very bad allergies or that I was you like smoking something and it it would bug me people would be saying like oh would you been drinking oh you smok it would really bug me I was like no damn it shut up and and so I would I would use eye drops just to have sort of normal eyes instantly within a couple days my eyes weren't red anymore my face wasn't as as puffy and uh yeah so it's um makes a big difference and it's remarkable how quickly that uh that happens um yeah it's I I fully agree with the uh autoimmune observation definitely notice people with autoimmune issues are are much more sensitive to things in milk and even even some meat some that have have a problem with with uh even chicken or pork um and egg whites and I think this probably has a lot to do with what the animal itself is fed um more than anything um because sometimes people have you know more more naturally organic uh grown animals that are fed their natural diet they don't have as much of a problem uh which is which is good um and so wow you've been you've been in this for for a long time You' been uh for quite some time I didn't I had no idea there were like these carnivore groups back in in 2008 I when I did this in the early 2000s I just did it because I didn't want to eat any plants because I you know just studied how they were harmful and but I I didn't I didn't even I mean Facebook I don't even think existed back then um might have even been like a I think it might even been just before Myspace of all that's way too old but um but um you know yeah didn't didn't even didn't had no idea that other people were doing this I I yeah I didn't know what was around what was around in 2008 what was the what were the groups back it was Charles Washington um ran this particular group and I think Kelly Hogan might have been a part of it um you know but it was uh I mean they didn't call it carnivore you know I think if anything they called it zero carb or I don't know I don't even think that there was a word coined for it um but you know it was just so stunning I could not wrap my head around it so yeah yeah that um that's interesting so when was your transition uh from keto to carnivore again what uh December 2017 okay yeah so you've been you've been pretty much strict carnivore since then with a couple slip UPS here and there yeah but I didn't so I I mean when I first started I had originally started with the idea I was doing a um like a beef and butter fast so I wasn't like fully intending to do carnivore it was just I this was a fast that was popular at the time and basically you ate a cup of ground beef with you know three tablespoons of butter I think you did that twice a day so I did that and on day two I felt so spectacular which I now realize um you know I had a couple of health things going on at the time so I have endometriosis and I was extremely um anemic I had uh you know I mean I it was just really bad I mean to the point where like maybe two weeks before my doctor had called me and was like uh where are you you should go to the emergency room like you need a transfusion so it was really bad yeah and um and so and then I had the asthma on top of it so I was having a lot of trouble like with energy and um and I think that was because one I couldn't breathe and then two even if I could like I didn't have enough you know red blood cells to take the oxygen around so it was it was not good and I just I you know I didn't really know what that was but then so I did this and it was like on day two all of a sudden I could breathe and it was like I had so much energy and I was so awake and now in retrospect I think one I my ketones probably boosted up higher because I was having a lot of butter two I was having iron I mean I have a hard time imagining it made that much of a difference that quickly but you know I don't know maybe and then I also didn't have any dairy and um because I for whatever reason I thought that I had to do this beef and butter fast with no salt and no Dairy and no you know nothing but beef and and butter unsalted butter so that's what I did and um and I think you know taking out that Dairy made a huge huge difference as well so um so it was probably you know there were some coincidental things but it still I mean it was so you know transformative for me but then after that I did that for like two weeks and then after that um you know I went back to having cheese and and like spices and other stuff and um and I still drank alcohol sometimes and um uh so I didn't feel great and I was drinking coffee and and I didn't feel great and then finally I decided quit the dairy quit coffee quit alcohol you know everything all at once and um and it was you know that was really that was a game changer so it really did make a very big difference for me and I you know I've gone back and forth on coffee um but that time I had quit for probably about five or six months um but I haven't gone back and forth on alcohol um or dairy yeah and all all those things you know will add up to so much as well like each one taking out is going to want to do benefit but then yeah just all of them bang together yeah you're definitely going to feel a lot better do you do you still drink coffee or you said you're back and forth on that what are your thoughts on that I do go back and forth on it um but it I I now I can tell that um it increases my anxiety um I mean I you know I don't think of myself as a particularly anxious person but I can feel like when I drink it I just like physically feel I don't know like just extra EXT ra anxious and and it's so now that I noticed that it's kind of like okay so then you know I'll go without it for a while and then you know I'll have a day where I didn't get enough sleep I'm tired there's something I got to do and I can't be on it then I have it and it's like oh I'm awake but also anxious now yeah so um yeah so I kind of go back and forth with it but um I probably need to cut it out completely yeah that's one a lot a lot of people that's like they're they they Hill to die on like you know like when they going carnivore like I will never give up coffee it's like you don't have to you know just just putting it out there yeah I I noticed that for me yeah you'll get a you'll get a hit of energy and you'll feel good for a few hours but then for me I I'll just feel pretty gross the rest of the day after that and so I kind of you know on balance it doesn't um you know it's not something I like for the whole day um but and then I'll be S you know from working out if I if I drink coffee I'll be sore for two days usually and that's yeah yeah so you know you know there's tons of uh you know lectins and different different you know chemicals in there that cause problems and uh yeah so I noticed for two days I'll be sore for two days and so it's like one cup of coffee you know I don't know if that's that's worth it for that two days of pain um and so some I'll take like a caffeine pill that's what I would do at first when I was transitioning off I would to do that but now I just sort of feel better without um you mentioned endometriosis which is which is something that I've I've seen come up a lot a lot of people ask me about that and it's not something that um you really see too much in in the literature um and so it's just just trying to and you conceptually I would imagine that being on a cornivore diet uh is going to normalize your hormones it's going to reduce inflammation in your body and so I would expect that this would at least symptomatically improve and people will experience it less but what what was your experience with that you know I was 44 when I started keto and um at that time I started to have like irregular periods and and a lot of problems um uh let's see when was that I think maybe a couple years before that I had um I had emergency surgery I had a system my ovary that burst and um it was uh what do they call it a chocolate cyst so it was had a blood vessel feeding it and when it burst it continued to bleed out into my abdomen so I basically lost two liters of blood you know floating around my organs so that was not good and um you know and that was when the doctors went in to fix that and we're like oh my God look at all this endometriosis um so I think I had a good surgeon she did a lot of work to clean things up and um you know were able to save my ovy and not you know have to have a hysterectomy or anything like that but um you know at that point I mean things were already you know pretty far gone um and I didn't know before then that I had had you know that I had endometriosis so all of this was like a shock um I I think uh I didn't want to do like hormones and the birth control pills so I did acupuncture for a couple of years to to control um the growth of you know any more cysts and you know I think it seemed to work you know I was okay for a while and then um and then I had a cyst that grew back but it was of moderate size so you know we just kind of watched and waited watched and waited and then um when I was I guess about 47 uh you know things seemed to just get keep getting worse you know even as I was losing the weight and my hormones were supposed to be calming down like the menstral stuff was not getting better and um and so you know I talked to the doctor about it but you know she was a surgeon so you know her kind of answer was well we can try these medicines or you know we can do a hysterectomy or an appalation and you know I didn't really like any of those answers so um I don't know I don't think I think I was too far gone by the time I introduced this stuff to kind of make a difference you know with this so I don't know or else it would would have been worse I mean I do know obviously the anemia was was really bad and thankfully I started eating meat and I think that helped to keep me from being as low it could have been you know could have been far worse um but you know it took a while to kind of like get all of that under control and then you know keep getting my my um iron levels to rise yeah um yeah that's that's um it's a very difficult situation to to be to be in for anyone so it's um it's great that you you were able to have you know good doctors and good team of of people that were able to see you through it and and hopefully that's all all stabilized now and not causing you too much problems um so your your work as as the the black carnivore uh what is what is your message who do you try to work with what what is what do you do your platform um to help people with with their diet and lifestyle yeah I you know I just think that the carnivore diet is such a transformative way of eating and for some people um you know I mean so many people in the black community are struggling with diabetes high blood pressure heart disease and uh stroke and cancer that um you know clearly we have something going on that we need to deal with and uh I never felt like I got good advice from my doctor s and many times they were kind of like I don't know uh what to do you know maybe try Weight Watchers like so you know I I don't feel like people are getting good advice on like how to to deal with weight other than you know eat less meat and cut calories and exercise more which you know is not working and I you know I struggled for decades to do that and I could never do it and then you know to try this way of eating and discover like that was totally the wrong message and why you know I hear all this time I was tormenting myself trying to eat less calories and exercise more when what I really needed to do was eat more meat eat more fat and not eat these other things and then it could be so easy you know I didn't it wasn't a battle and I you know I shudder to think about all of the mental brain space that went into you know remembering how many calories are in something or you know trying to get myself not to eat when I was hungry I mean so much of that mental brain space could have been spent studying you know doing something that like benefits the world and yet you know yet I'm like totally self-focused on my physical body and um and trying to do something I mean you know basically trying to fight nature which is you know always going to be a losing battle so I just really wanted to make sure that this information was available to people and um and while I told totally think this is the best way to eat and it's so easy um you know it's not for everybody so uh it's fine you know if people don't want to do it but for people who do like meat and who do want to try it I just want to make sure that this information is available and out there and um I do think it's important to see yourself reflected in um you know in in the messaging and in the the um information out there and I don't I did not see other um influencers or other people with platforms bringing black people up to tell their stories or to be represented so I was continually looked at you know in the eye and told black people don't do carnivore and it's like you know I'm right here and we are here yeah I mean the M the Messi certainly do carnivore well yes yes exactly so I just felt very frustrated and um you know and I so I really wanted to uh so I created the podcast really to elevate the stories and the voices of black people who are eating this way and you know basically I mean I would come across people on Instagram and uh you know well I guess I didn't do Facebook but mostly Instagram and so I invited them to um you know to be on my podcast and interview them and just you know hear their story like how did they come to eat carnivore why and and all of that and uh and so I started putting that out there and um and I think it you know helped to make a lot of people a little bit more confident about doing this because you know the reality is this you know this does seem like a crazy thing to do and um and I think that for some of us who are really into um the science and all that kind of stuff you know re reading like studies and hearing about the mechanisms that might make this work or might explain why this is all good um you know that's interesting for some of us but for a lot of people like that's total turnoff and so I wanted to make sure that there was stuff that wasn't like totally sciency and then that was just like a regular everyday black person he's like yes I started eating this way um yes I used to love mac and cheese and you know my my Sunday soul food or whatever but I figured out a way to do it and now I'm off medications and you know don't have any pain and I lost 80 pounds and um and so you know and and I saw that like lots there are lots of people who've had that experience and so um you know I continue to do interviews with people and to tell their stories um and uh the latest one has been uh Kesha who joined my uh carnivore um 21-day carnivore Challenge and in three weeks she's off her blood pressure medicine her blood pressure is normal after a year of of being on medication and doing all kinds of crazy things like drinking celery juice and different things to try to lower it and you know none of that worked she does carnivore for three weeks and everything's back to normal so yeah yeah it's funny um because because that that is what is recomend recommended when people have high blood pressure you need to go on a plant-based diet you need to start eating a lot of vegetables because somehow vegetables are going to lower your blood pressure that without any evidence either asked for or provided and and yet we just we just eat this up and I I have friends of mine who are doctors uh very very brilliant doctors but then you know and and they talked to me about nutrition and they basically um you know one one of my colleagues um her husband was doing a carnivore diet she was doing more of a keto diet because her doctor was saying you know well I have high blood pressure issues and my doctor I have to eat a lot of vegetables for my high blood pressure and I was like who told you that why did they tell you that and you know she's she's she's an absolutely brilliant surgeon and Doctor um but unfortunately she just she was just taking the word and the recommendation of this other doctor without actually questioning and say okay what is the evidence for that where where are the studies showing that eating vegetables lowers your your blood pressure there are none there's nothing absolutely nothing and uh and in fact I I was actually just speaking with Professor Ben bman of of um BYU previously and um and he's actually he does a lot of research into metabolism and insulin and hyperinsulinemia and he's actually showing that high blood pressure is really from uh insulin resistance and Insulin can actually be a vasod dilator to your to your vessels and when you get resistant to that then it can't respond properly and they get tight and hard and that increases your your blood pressure and so just getting people onto you know a ketogenic diet or preferably a carnivore diet all of a sudden you're going to just need to come off all your blood pressure medications and people do as as you're seeing and um you know and that actually works you know as opposed to you know say oh eat a lot of vegetables which never works it doesn't do anything and and yet we we keep doing this you know it's the it's the the sort of the the you know most governments that they put in a program and it doesn't work and the solution to that is is funding that program more heavily because obviously we just need more of this program or was like or you know it's bad and we should you should go to something else um how long have you been doing the podcast how many people have you have you spoken to about all this so far I don't know I think maybe 70 oh wow yeah oh that's a ton yeah yeah and then um you know we do have a Facebook group uh that is over a thousand members and it is for only for black carnivores so um if you are watching this and you are black you are welcome to join um and it uh you know it's it's actually very active and thriving and there's a lot of us who are doing this and doing really well on it good yeah and and is that something that you're seeing you're seeing uh a lot of people I mean I obviously you know see a lot of benefit in in my patients as well is that the same that you're seeing in your communities as well yeah I mean I regularly see people coming off with medications reversing diabetes reversing high blood pressure um you know and and losing weight like those are you know and while ending chronic pain and inflammation I mean those are the top things that people are dealing with um we also have some people who you know have various kinds of inflammatory things and autoimmune things so um you know so Dairy is like a constant discussion but um but yeah I mean I you know we're regularly seeing people do really well you know the only thing that um I think is a challenge is um I mean I don't know maybe this is like across the board of the US but I think you know a ton of us are addicted to sugar and I including myself I I count myself in those numbers and so coming off of sugar for me like when I went um low carb and was like you know getting off sugar I mean it was really hard for me I mean I definitely felt like I was you know really going through something and it took a good six weeks before I um felt like I came out the other side it was like one day I thought wow you know it's been like three days since I thought about M&M's but you know all through that six week period like every day like every couple of minutes You' be like M&M's no no M&M's no no and uh it was a struggle um definitely a struggle but then I came out in the other side and I was like oh my God I had no idea this beautiful land of energy and clear head and not like constant looking for something to adjust my physical state like I had no idea such a world existed so um I think you know when I talk to people about this like they don't know it exists either they don't believe it you know they don't believe me and um you know so that's why it's really helpful to have people tell stories so that um other people know you know there it's different like you know there is a a market difference between the how you feel you know eating a carnivore diet versus you know how you felt um you know before on on the sad uh the sad diet so yeah yeah um and so so so take us through the the 21-day challenge that you were were speaking about is this is this people that you recruit through um your Facebook group or people that that approach you and then and then what what do you have them do and and what do you find when they do it yeah well so I have information about it on my website so blackc carnivore decom Challenge and then uh you know people can just sign up and come in and uh and it's open to everyone so it's not just black carnivores um and and in fact you know I think um I don't know perhaps this is something unique to me that is not uh that you know you don't see amongst other influencers but I think that my Approach is a little bit more um I don't know maybe laidback uh but you know I kind of feel like you have to meet people where they're are where they are not where you want them to be and so you know not everybody is ready to do hardcore strict carnivore you know and just eating meat salt and water and and that's okay you know I think that however you get here there are benefits to be gained and you're going to do better than what you were doing before and as you do better then you may decide you want to get stricter so um you know so I try to offer people AO ways to do this so in the black carnivore Community the way I talk about about carnivore is you can be strict moderate or relaxed so strict is really just eating from the the animal kingdom and and that may include Dairy and eggs if you know if you're not bothered by it then moderate would be um you would also include uh herbs and spices and maybe coffee or low sugar fruits like avocados and olives and then relaxed would also include artificial sweeteners and like if you go out to a restaurant and you get something that has um you know that has vegetables that come with it or you make a stew and there's vegetables in it and you eat some of it you know kind of like that if you eat some vegetables it's not a big deal so really you know in the community you know we kind of range from like hyper carnivore um or clean keto all the way to you know strict carnivore I stay mostly strict because that's where I feel better so I don't um I really don't eat any plants and I stopped using herbs and spices you know maybe a year and a half ago and so occasionally I'll use them but really I don't um so coffee is kind of it but um you know I so that's where I stay but some you know there are people who will not give up the coffee there are people who will not give up the coffee and cream and Stevia um you know and then I tell people you just have to decide how good you want to feel and as long as you're honest about how you feel you can decide because you're a groom person and you can do what you want um and if you don't mind feeling a little less well then you know fine um so I think that it is helpful to kind of look at it that way and also just kind of look at I mean you know I really want people to build a carnivore lifestyle and um you know the the diet has to fit into your life not your life into the diet and um and I think so many of us by the time you know I'm 50 and by the time you know we get to my age like you know we've been through the ringer we've done it all you know we've tried to go to the gym and work out for two hours every day and eat 500 calories and do all the things and you know lose the weight for like you know hit goal for like 10 minutes and immediately begin gaining weight so um you know at this point I really want to help people build a lifestyle not just lose weight you know get off medications feel better you know reduce pain and that really has been um my focus and um and so so I think the the people who come to me are um less focused on you know the Aesthetics and and just like you know looking better in their clothes but really to to heal and um and so that's kind of the focus of our group you know people are you know people are certainly taking the pictures they want to lose weight but really you know we're looking at like getting off of diabetic medications lowering the blood pressure um you know dealing with arthri and arthritis pain avoiding surgeries that sort of thing yeah and and after they do the the 21-day challenge how many people would you find stick with it and continue on afterwards well I definitely have people who've been in every Challenge and who continue to go because you know most of the people and certainly in the black community you know obesity is is a huge problem and you know most people are looking to lose 50 60 70 80 pounds and that's not something that happens in three weeks it's not something that even happens in three months so um you know people are like trying to to do the challenge to really build a lifestyle the other thing that I do that is um it's a smaller program and it's more targeted but it's basically a 16-week program where I kind of I try to take all of the challenges that you face as a person who's trying to switch into a healthy lifestyle and um and have you practice them one by one with me with a group you know so that you have an opportunity to kind of learn how to deal with them so in that four-month period you know you cover everything that's going to happen and hopefully at as you come out of it you're kind of ready you know you've already um you know you've already dealt with every challenge you've dealt with like birthdays going out to restaurants you know uh family members and and parents who are trying to you know sew doubt or worry um you know you have um like you figured out how to incorporate fasting if you're going to Fitness you know in a way that works for you and your goals and um you know and and so it's kind of that's kind of what I'm talking about and also I do try to get people to be really strict for the first couple of weeks see how they feel and then slowly reincorporate the things that you were missing to see you know how your body responds so I do have a week where I really you know try to teach you how to you know observe your body and pay attention and what to look at so that you can you know start and you know of course people always say they're going to do that and then they eat a slice of pizza and it's like you know who knows you know any number of things could have been um a problem in there but you know to try to but I try to you know teach how to do that and um you know so that people can really learn how going forward how to judge these things for themselves and build a lifestyle yeah and that that's something I've noticed as well that well people can go one of two ways they can slip off and have something you know in non- carnivore you know like rice or whatever and and they find that as a failure and just say oh well I guess I can never do this again and then of course it's like no no you can just just get back on it right away there's nothing to you're not out of the club you know you don't have you're not banned um you can do it again but um or they get it or they they maybe have been doing carnivore for a couple months and then they go on a vacation or they do somewhere and they eat something else and and they realize how rotten it makes them feel and it just reinforces the fact that they never want to feel like that again and they really prefer feeling good that that's certainly been been uh my experience that anything that slips back in is just so uh you know detrimental anyway at the end of the day is it making a huge difference in my life you know it's not it's not killing me but I notice it and it's noticeably different and noticeably worse and to the point that I'm like I don't want that anywhere near me or even just a bit of rice would slip into my food my back would be in like just stabbing pain for four days one cup of coffee sore for two days just not worth it at all and so sometimes people get that and and have that reinforcing uh sort of experience yeah um yeah um what was I going to say um that was one of the things you were talking about uh with dieting and how unsuccessful it can be because you are just starving all the time and that and that's the idea is you put yourself in in a caloric deficit doesn't matter what else you're doing doesn't matter what you're eating you know just you know just eating you know booze and ice cream as long as your calories are under this level then then you're fine which is which of course pretty pretty juvenile approach to any sort of diet and weight loss because these things just have other effects in your body besides just the calorie content that they that they have um that was one of the things that um Dr bman again he mentioned that he does a does an exercise with his class where he he tells them it's like okay you have you have like an eating competition you're G to get ready for us you want to be you want to have really get your your your sense of hunger up you know what would you do to prepare for this and they'd all say well well I I would eat I would eat less and the days leaving up and I'd exercise a lot and he's like yeah that that's that will get your your hunger up but that's exactly what we do when we're trying to lose weight when we're trying to diet but really what you're doing is it's just you're ramming up your sense of hunger and and deprivation and it's it's very uncomfortable being on being hungry is is a very uncomfortable State and so you you end up having an unhealthy relationship with food instead of uh you know what what I find and you know I'm sure what you found in a in a carnivore diet you're eating to satiety and you're actually letting your body you know get the the nutrients it wants and then it sends you the signals yes we have everything we want we're happy now and and then you can be happy and and so it's it's so freeing and it feels like you're eating more and in a lot of cases you are uh you may be getting more calories but you're also getting more nutrition and your body use uses it and utilizes it better and so paradoxically seemingly you end up losing weight uh and and becoming you know much much healthier and I think much more sustainably so you know yeah um so you've had this this this going on how long have you been doing the 21-day challenge in the 16 week course uh well since November yeah yeah so you know people are definitely making progress I mean uh you know people are coming up on 30 about 30 pounds um you know who are yeah sticking with it and and that's in the 16 weeks um no uh so these are people repeating the um you know repeating the challenges they also you know everyone who's doing the 16 week is also part of the challenge so um everybody gets as much support as possible because I think you know that's really the hardest part um you know for people but I also I think what I see and I don't know if this is true in other communities but that um people start losing inches right away but the the scale doesn't change and so um there's a lot of frustration there and uh you know I have to remind people like you know nobody can see the number on the scale but everybody can see how tight your pants are so really that's you know that's the measure that matters not the scale um you know the number on the scale so I don't you know I don't really know how to you know kind of talk about weight loss success with people I mean I tell everybody take pictures I you know that's really going to be the best way to judge your progress and you know I have a woman like her waist looks visibly way smaller way less rolls you know um rolls or um and bulk and she's only lost five pounds yeah but you know she looks like you know she's got to be you know at least one or two sizes smaller so you know I don't know like I don't know really what how you know how to talk about it yeah and that is something that that people get hung up on uh in particular is just their weight and and they lose sight of of their health and I think that's something that's very important is to is to focus on your appearance and you can you can just see that there are dramatic changes happening whether or not there's anything happening on the scale but also are you healthier or or not or do you feel better and that that's really what's the most important thing uh there are some people that just take a while to to lose the weight and even and even lose the fat um you know you mentioned Kelly Hogan she she was one of these who she for six months and she and she you know swears you know up and down that she was very pure wasn't eating anything that she wasn't supposed to just meat and water and for six months she didn't she didn't lose any fat she actually put on on some weight U maybe some of it muscle but she thinks that it was it was more than just muscle and then after about 6 months all of a sudden just a you know a switch clicked and it just started pouring off of her and and she she she's very very slender now and uh and that and that came very quickly after the six-month pause and I've seen a couple people uh do that as well so it's important uh yeah to like not get discouraged just because uh you know the scale is not saying what you wanted to I I had a friend that that got very discouraged because he was doing this for about a week and he hadn't lost any weight yet so he's like I can't do this anymore I'm just going to go back and you know I don't I don't you know then then you're going back to eating the way that got you into that position in the first place so obviously that's not the answer you know if you want if you wanted you know something to change then you need to to change what you're doing um and then in my my own experience I lost you know about I don't know 20 25 pounds in the first couple weeks uh quite dramatically but then my my weight stayed exactly the same it didn't didn't change at all I wasn't particularly trying to lose weight I was just trying to be healthy um but I was visibly changing and and taking sort of monthly pictures that were very different from month to month and but I stayed the exact same weight I stayed the exact same weight for months and months and months until I actually uh sort of bunged up my knee and and then couldn't couldn't Squat and run and play rugby anymore and so like my actually my the muscle mass on my leg sort of uh went down bit and I lost weight because of that which wasn't the weight I wanted to lose um yeah so what are some of these you have you've spoken to so many people um what are some of the the the really you know inspir you know inspiring stories and you know great reversals in in people's Health that you've seen I mean you know it's the blood pressure the medications getting off medications and uh getting reversing um diabetes or getting off of uh you know diabetic medication and um right now uh yeah I mean those are like those are the stories that I see every day and um and it's really you know it's for me it's really inspiring but also um you know frustrating that like you know people in my real life you know friends and family don't want to do this they're like oh it's crazy I don't know what you're doing and um and I know that it would be helpful and successful for them but um you know can't uh you know can't get them to consider it but I am glad that it's becoming more popular and people are more curious about it online so um it's definitely spreading yeah that's uh yeah that's yeah you can't you can lead up a horse of water but you can't make them drink as the saying goes and then which is yeah exactly you know i' I've had um a lot of friends and family follow suit just seeing the results that I'm having and and hearing me talk about it and ask me questions which is which is always great I always love to to see that and see them Thrive as a result but then you have family and friends who are like well that's that's nice and I'm glad I'm glad that you found something works for you but I I'm just you again not interested for so many different reasons some people are just like it just seems it's it's just too big of an overhaul it's too difficult to to change that much of their life um and and you know so it's it's not something that's that's feasible for them at the time uh and that's you know totally understandable but yeah you do wish that you because you look at you look at then be like God this could help you so much and um and you just you wish that for them um how long do you do do you see uh how long does it take in your experience for people when they go full carnivore how how fast are they coming off their diabetes medication how long are they how fast does it take or how long does it take to sort of reverse that process process it's really fast it it really is quite fast and so I'm finding that these changes are happening like within two weeks and um you know and and people need to get treatment um or deal with like coming off medications now I'm going to tell you the truth of what I see is that so many people are diagnosed and um and prescribed high blood pressure medicine that they take when they feel like it so when we start you know and um and many many of the people in my community um I mean they're you know I mean of course there are tons of uh studies and conversation about how black people are not getting the same kind of care in this country as um you know as as white patients or um or the outcomes are very different even when you um you know when you uh standardize for income and all these other things so uh so you know I don't really know um what I feel when I talk to people is that um they don't feel like their doctors are their Partners in Health and so for whatever reason they're not taking the medication they're not discussing that with the doctors so even you know the the medication may be um you know irritating upsetting it may have all kinds of side effects and they're not you know they're not having that conversation and so you know they may decide just stop taking the you know high blood pressure medicine and you know and their blood pressure is dropping and and things kind of come together pretty quickly which is awesome but I do tell all of them I'm not a doctor I can't you know I'm not supposed to you know take you off this stuff you've got to work out with them but people of course do what they want to do and um and I think um you know something similar happens with uh you know with the diabetic medication and uh you know I I my mom was you know on met foran and it was it was not well tolerated so she constantly had problems with it and um and I think a lot of people you know whatever these medications are there are a lot of side effects and they do take them or they don't take them and you know whatever so uh I you know so basically I think that people are the people in my community are often struggling to um to find the right way to come off the medications and they have doctors who say uh outright they won't treat them if they are following um a low carb diet because it's not a healthy way to eat oh really and uh yeah yeah or they'll put it you know in their record or I don't know that they are non-c compliant which I think you know that does have real meaning or impact so um yeah so they don't have medical support to do this stuff yeah that's that's awful and especially you know ref that is that that that kind of bothers me um well that really bothers me honestly um you know especially you know with doctors you know doctor kimberry wrote a book called um lies my doctor told me and and he goes through all these different U points that that we take for granted and doctors take for granted in a lot of in a lot of cases that are just completely not supported by the evidence or have so much evidence against and and a lot of these things you know with low carbohydrate and and cholesterol and and um and the other lies that have been perpetuated over the last 50 years and have caused so much detriment to People's Health these are things that are just commonly accepted and and yeah and you go to the doctor who knows literally nothing about you know it's the funny thing because because we don't get taught diet nutrition in medical school we just get we just get the same you know the same sort of old stories reinforced and so now we're in medical school we go talk about cholesterol and cholesterol medication so for yeah obviously cholesterol is B yeah obviously uh Fat's bad we don't really go into it there we do some biochemistry we do some um work in that field uh but it's not it's not very much and if you're not paying attention to it and looking at how this how these biochemical processes tie into diet and nutrition like you will will really miss it and and then and then these people think that they can give uh you know learned advice to the extent of saying I'm not going to treat you unless you eat the way I want to eat I wonder how how healthy they are I wonder what their BMI is you know it's probably you know it's probably not great you know you have this you know overweight doctor who smokes telling you like oh you got to cut that stuff out maybe you need to take your own you know medicine I you know I was talking to a nutritionist you she's got a a PhD in in nutritional sciences and she was always struggling with her weight and I was having these yo-yo diets and she had a phg in this and like you would think that you know if you if you knew that you know the exact thing that is is perfect for people to eat and she was doing it and she was overweight and unhealthy so obviously there's something wrong here and she was able to recognize that and and then you know find her way onto a carnivore diet as well and and now she's in in great in in great health um but for a doctor to to refuse to treat someone because they choose to eat a certain way not because they're being um you know they're being obstinate or they're or they're just you know being uh you know a wastal while like someone who's just like I'm just going to eat cake and ice cream and smoke and drink I bet you he's treating those people I bet you he's he's not he doesn't have a problem treating those people um but then someone who's trying to take charge of their health and and and you know For Better or Worse they're going onto a low carb diet because they're trying to improve their health you know this is exactly the kind of patient that you want to work with because they are very interested in their own health and and if you can work with them you can talk to them and say hey look I I think this will help you they're going to be very receptive to that because they're interested in their own health and so I think it's very shortsighted and you know borderline you know malpractice really for for a doctor to refuse to treat someone who is clearly so interested in their own health yeah I mean and you know depending on the circumstances and where the people live like there may not be other doctors to go to so um you know a lot of times that's what I hear or you know because of their insurance like there's one hospital or one you know Network and so they they can't really kind of you know go like that and you know I mean I I'm very um you know I take a lot of care to think about my health and what things are the right things to do and so I'm willing to to push you know a do push back on a doctor but not everybody is and so I find that you know these are people who just you know they don't want to have that conversation they don't know how to and you know and so they don't and so you know they're coming to me and we're you know I'm trying to to support them but like you know it's like you got to find a medical person it's going to tell you how how much of the Met Forin to come down on or what to do because you know that that has to happen and I can't I can't do it yeah is it have you what do you normally suggest that they do just just try to make inroads with their doctor or or what do you what do you how do you try to get around that that problem well so now you know I've had an opportunity to interview a lot of people a lot of doctors um about this way of eating and so that's you know usually one of my questions like how do you talk to your doctor like what do you want your patients to say to you you know what do you need to hear and you know what well Dr Tony H Hampton has you know been a great friend of the the black carnivore community and um and you know he's a doctor and he has talked about you know just trying to let your doctor know that you are you know you want to be a part Partners in working on your health and that there are some things that you're interested in um and that you want to give them a try and just kind of um kind of negotiate with them uh you know um to you know to talk to the doctor about this sort of being an experiment and what things what signs should you look for in order to decide whether to you know continue or not you know what would be signs of improvement so that you have some benchmarks and things that you're going by so your doctor doesn't think you know you're just kind of doing this and you know you'll just do it forever and and not really look at data and all of that so you know but that too is a hard conversation to have I mean you know you've gota like for yourself you've got to have some understanding of you know HDL triglycerides LDL and and know you know kind of what you're looking for so it's hard you know it's not it's not easy yeah no it is hard and and yeah obviously it does make it a lot easier when you've armed yourself with a lot of the facts um and that's something that you know you and I are able to do because we're very interested and and passionate about this but you know for for most people that's it's very difficult and they just don't have the time to do that or you know or or the interest maybe but because a lot of people you know they they go to they go to doctors and professionals because they're supposed to be the experts and they're supposed to get advice you know if you're you know it's kind of funny that you're going to the doctor you know when you know more than them so that you can make them do and let you do what you want to do and so you know obviously that's that's a very backwards relationship uh but unfortunately sometimes you have to um that's uh yeah and I try to encourage people to try to arm themselves with the facts and and you know these are things that that a lot of doctors aren't aware of yet even though they've been in the literature for a decade and you know and they really should I talked to C I had a debate with three cardiologists against and then two cardiologists on my side about cholesterol and how you know we were arguing that we got it all wrong in the context of heart disease and and they were arguing against but it was it was so clear there's this huge body of evidence that cholesterol was never a problem and yet you had these three very prominent cardiologist one was a professor at the University of Sydney medical school you know very very good medical school and and they were just so dogmatic they're like no this is the the only way and it's like buddy you're a professor and you haven't even read any literature in the last decade like that's a problem what are you doing yeah and and you're teaching people and you don't you don't even know you don't even know anything and I'm not even a cardologist and like I was just you know and I was I going just basically showing these guys up they were actually quite pissed they all they all made like personal remarks against me and attacks because they were just like because like you know I just said I was like this isn't even an argument this isn't a discussion we have hard evidence showing that that all the studies that that show just a correlation that that cholesterol caused heart disease were fraudulent we have hard evidence of that so there was and and all their studies actually showed no correlation if there's no correlation there that proves no causation so this this is the end of the debate as far as I'm concerned and they were Furious because they you know they all they wanted to talk about was this this little you do Secret this study and you look at this and these markers go up here it's like who cares like it it just doesn't it doesn't cause heart disease it just doesn't that's a hard fact and uh and they were they were quite pissed but you know it's um it's bad when um when doctors have are so petrified in in their beliefs and they can't even attempt to work with a patient you know and um I think that's yeah like you say that's going to that's going to make compliance um very difficult because they're not going to trust your doctor you're not going to trust what they say and and it'd be nice if you could just get a new doctor but like you say that's that's just not possible in some areas and and for some people so it's a very difficult situation uh but you know but I'm glad that that there are alternative uh uh sources like yourself and and more resources becoming available online where people can can sort of learn about these things and take their their health into their own hands and you know that that's the thing is um you know once you get on to these proper diets most of the time you can get off nearly all of your medications across the board I mean anything you can you can almost always reduce any medication when you get onto a proper human diet um well um I'm I'm conscious of your time um I don't want to I want to take too much but I just want to say thank you so much for coming on I've had a lovely time talking to you I also remember me saying that you were 50 I I was sure you were in your 30s you don't look you absolutely do not look 50 so whatever you're doing is working very well for you and um thank you very much is there anything else that that that you wanted to address or um or say and and otherwise how do we get a hold of you how do we support you yeah absolutely so you can go to blackc carnivore decom and uh you can see some more of my story you can also down download my three-day free meal plan because I really want people to try this in even three days like you'll see a big difference uh you can check out more info about the challenge at black car war.com Challenge and there's also a link there if you want to talk to me about the 16we program you can set up um a calendly meeting just to to talk to me about it and see if it's right for you and um you can find me on YouTube at black carnivore and on uh on Instagram uh black carnivore and on Facebook uh there I'm ad Fox Ed foox and uh yeah that's pretty much all the places I am and you know I'm happy to talk so shoot me a DM I'd love to hear from you you know just tell me your story tell me how you've healed or what's changed for you and um you know let me give you your flowers and your you know your celebrations and congratulations for uh giving this way of eating a try yeah well that's great um well I I encourage everyone to go and and look at your uh YouTube and and your stories and your website because I think you're doing a lot of really great work for people and and and anyone can find a lot of benefit from there so I hope everyone goes and checks that out and I'll put links to everything uh in the description as well all right Eddie thank you so much for for coming on it's been it's been a pleasure thank you for having me welcome [Music]