Losing Weight by Eating More, with Serena Carnivore!

hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is just eat meat and that's what you should do but if uh you hiking or road tripping or stuck at work and you want something nutritious that is just meat fat and possibly salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option I like this product not only because it is pure meat but also because I really want the carnivore Market to thrive as well the more we support meat only products the more people will make meat only products and this will bring this into the main stream so if this sounds like something you'd like to check out then take a look and use my discount code HTC to get 10% off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25% off total all right thanks guys hey everyone welcome back to another episode of the how-to Carnival podcast and YouTube series we're joined by Dr Anthony chaffy the plant-free MD back again uh and today we've got a very special guest Serena who's a good friend of Dr chaffy and I uh and who we've who has been helping us run our 30-day Carnival challenge so uh together the three of us have helped lots of people um and yeah we've we've both really enjoyed getting to know you Serena over the past let's say three five months something like that um so welcome thank you so much yeah I've really enjoyed the how of Carnival group a lot it's uh helped me I didn't get in probably till a year into my journey or close to that um but it's been helpful for me and I'm glad to be a part of it oh great now how did you get into carnivore and uh and also why did you get into carnivore oi um so I got into carnivore kind of by accident um I have a postco issue where things taste and smell rotten many many things taste and smell rotten um I had covid December of 2020 lost my sense of taste and smell it had come back but like really muted for about three months and then all of the sudden one day I woke up and on my way down the SNS I asked if the dog had been sprayed by a skunk and my husband said no she hasn't even been out yet and I said what is that horrible smell he said I just made coffee and I was like no not coffee please not coffee but I had never heard of this before I didn't know what this was I was at that point eating a Weight Watchers um heal healthy American diet at that point very lowfat um just lean chicken breast lots and lots of vegetables I would say 75% of my plate was vegetables fruits and vegetables tasted and smell rotten to chicken tasted and smell rotten to me the one thing that didn't was sugar so any kind of baked goods with lots of sugar in it did not taste like that the weird thing is that the the butter in it did like I could tell when there was butter in stuff so like the only thing that I could really eat was sweet stuff at that point I started gaining weight I was miserable I did not feel good and I joined some Facebook groups where people would talk about it and I saw people from one end of the spectrum to the other there were some people that had gained 100 pounds in six months because they can only eat sweet stuff and other people were on feeding tubes I mean that's how bad it gets so I was kind of in the middle but people are on feeding tubes even still because they can't keep anything down because the taste and smell is so bad and once you eat something people would say oh just get through it oh you can just eat that but once you eat it the smell is coming out of you for hours and hours and hours the smell is just there like inside of you and you just can't get rid of it it's a horrible feeling so I had lots of days where I couldn't even leave the house I mean I would just I was using lots and lots of essential oils at the time I would put essential oils in a diffuser and just kind of hold it under my nose to try to get rid of the smell it was just awful um and so lots and lots of sugar because it was the only thing that tasted good and then in May on my birthday last year in 2021 uh my girls are Bakers they have a gluten-free a little Bakery in our house and they sell at the farmers market and they make delicious cupcakes and so they for my birthday they said wanted to make you cupcakes and I was like double the batch double that batch because I want more than my share and I ended up over the course of that weekend in 36 hours I ate 20 cupcakes and I woke up on Monday morning and I was like okay that's it and like when I resolve something usually I'm pretty good about it for a while so I was like that's it no more sugar so if I'm not going to eat sugar and carbs and processed carbs and baked goods anymore and I can't eat fruits and vegetables what does that leave me and at that point I knew that I could eat a hamburger but it had to be Fresh Off The Grill I couldn't put anything on it except salt I couldn't could cheese tasted in rotten so I couldn't use cheese and I could eat a steak but only a certain kind of steak and it had to be Fresh Off The Grill I couldn't refrigerate it and then reheat it there's some sort of weird chemical reaction I guess and so I was just eating like those two things and that day you know was like the day I decided and I started doing research online and found of course the same people everybody finds when they start looking it up I found the Joe Rogan Shan Baker podcast uh Michaela Peterson Kelly Hogan Lura bath and I started watching all of these videos so I just kind of dove into it we homeschooled this was end of May we were done with school and so we were just kind of hanging out at home and so my husband and I would go you know running a few mornings a week and we would go run and we would come back and just kind of lay in the sun on our porch for a little while and get our vitamin D and I was just absorbed all day long I had this in all day every day listening to videos started listening to books and I just started eating that way that very day I started eating that way and um it was really easy to stick with because I was full so much but I wasn't eating enough in the beginning you know that's a whole another story but um but I stuck with it and this is the longest it's been over 18 months it's the longest I have ever stuck with anything ever met my goal on Thanksgiving and normally when I met my goal or any goal arbitrary goal or otherwise that I had set for myself for weight or anything I would rearm myself with like cupcakes or something you're like oh good I did that so I can go ahead and eat 20 cupcakes today because is you know tomorrow I'll just get right back on and then it was never tomorrow it was two weeks or three weeks or a month later or even longer than that sometimes and I'm an all nothing person I'm an abstainer not a moderator and um so on Thanksgiving I met my goal and I had some turkey and I had taken some sausage cheese balls and that was all I had and I came home feeling like a winner you know like every other time I had ever met any kind of goal I came home that day feeling like a total and complete loser so it was the first time I've ever not rewarded myself with food and just kind of on track I find it super easy to stay on track so anyway that's how I became a carnivore and that's why and um I am never going back wow yeah well great story yeah and um yeah very well done yeah that's awesome thank you so say you say you reached your goal like was that was that a body weight goal uh it was um it was just you know and and I even I mean I think I talked to you guys about this when it got close maybe like 10 pounds away eight pounds away I started thinking I'm not even sure I need that I don't I don't my body is different than it was yeah at this weight and it and at 10 pounds heavier even my body is differently shaped than it was I thought the way my body was shaped was hereditary my my grandmother my mom we all had saddle bags you know and I'm not saying they're completely gone you know but I'm shaped differently than I was shaped last time I weighed this I'm wearing a size smaller than I was wearing last time I weighed this um so even at 10 pounds till my goal I started started saying I'm not really sure that's necessary I mean I I think it is but I'm not sure I just want to fit into you know this certain size or these certain genes that I've been hanging on to for all these years thinking one day I'll get back into them and um and I could get into all of them almost at that point um and then by the time I hit my goal I could you know for sure but yeah it was just a weight goal that I had set it was um the weight goal it's what I weighed when I got pregnant with my first child more than 20 uh right at 23 years ago and so that was just kind of always my goal after I had a child I just kind of wanted to be back so we have four kids I gain 80 pounds the first time 60 the second time 50 and then 40 so I kind of I learned a little bit as I went along but it was always you know a little bit hard to get that weight off and but in any case I had held on to a pair of jeans that I wanted to be able to wear they're actually hanging where I can see them as soon as I open my closet door and have been for 11 years and I got them on on Thanksgiving day so that was really kind of my goal yeah yeah because feel like like many people you've started off with a weight goal which is obviously important but there's you know there's a bit more to it um as I'm sure youve discovered over the last 18 months on Carnivore I mean what have been some of the other benefits um mentally I think so I had eating disorders and disordered eating for probably 35 years I'll be 50 in May and I bought my first diet pills when I was 12 so I've literally been on a diet almost my whole entire life and so to not feel like I'm on a diet you know something clicks mentally when you make the switch to carnivore and you realize you can do it it's so empowering to get through those holidays or you know in the beginning just the first couple of days and then the first week and then you've made it through the first month and every Milestone is very encouraging and empowering and it builds your confidence and you realize I can do this especially after you know 35 years of failed diets failed experiments failed juice fasts I mean oh the juice fast I did oh so many juice tests um you know my 16-year-old when she was one and a half the palms of her hands and the bottom of her feet were like had an orange Hue from all the carrot juice I mean we used to juice I know we used to juice a lot and so like I've done that was an episode of House House MD that was a great one guy came in and he's just like he's like oh yeah you know I don't know about this he's about something else and um and house was just like like no actually have a much worse problem he's like your wife is cheating on you it's like what what are you talking about and he's just like you're orange you you know it's like for you not to notice is one thing you know oblivious or whatever but for your wife to not notice just not care like obviously her her attention is not focused on you like so she's definitely having an affair and he's just like oh God you know they just like leave it like that they just leave it as like a drop but yeah that that's that's crazy to get that yeah yeah I mean I had I had tried so many different things so but I think the being on the carnivore diet I think it kind of fixed my brain I'm not on a diet anymore I feel like I am a carnivore I'm not on the carnivore diet and I enjoy my food I didn't always enjoy like I would buy like ground turkey breast and then I would buy sausage seasoning and I would put it on it to make it taste like sausage it did not taste like sausage let's be clear about that right now it did not taste like sausage but I was trying like I would always like get around things you know any I Poss could was that the idea yeah yeah trying to eat more lean and you know because sausage is bad for you and so um but I think it fixes it does a lot in your head and I think Dr tapy could attest to that it it changes like it changes your brain chemistry doesn't it well it does yeah in a number of different ways and and it turns on different gene expression and things like that like the epigenetics are quite interesting as well you know uh just being a ketosis and um uh just being in that metabolic State you know people see this from fasting you get a lot of benefits from fasting a lot of it has to do with gene expression and and the different things that that you know autophagy and um uh just one of them you know clearing out these sort of uh these uh ccent cells that uh you know maybe would be pre or at some point maybe precancerous or just not functioning as well as it could be but tons of things tons and tons and tons and tons of things um so yeah so it changes you know everything about uh your body you just you just start running different differently that's why I always said that you know I just feel like a different breed of human you know and in a lot of ways I tell people that like after about two weeks you get all this stuff out of your system you alcohol takes three weeks um that after that like you will just you will just feel like a different breed of person you know and in a lot of ways you are because your body's working in a very different way you know in comparison to yourself and others who are not eating this way and U and it's amazing it is an amazing amazing difference yeah it took me about six months to realize I was better like in here you know because I was just kind of prodding along I was trying to heal this thing and I didn't really have any intention of doing this forever I was just waiting for my taste and smell to get better which it has gotten a lot better I still have a hard time even being the same room as garlic and onion when somebody's making popcorn I get a little bit sick to my stomach um when when somebody eats peanut butter and I smell it I actually burp peanut butter like an hour later even though I didn't even eat the peanut butter it's the weirdest thing I'm telling you it's so bizarre happens with other things too like if something is really heavily seasoned and I'm in the room while somebody's making it I tend to burp it up later even though I didn't even eat it it's really bizarre but um but I didn't I didn't know if I would do this forever you know I just I didn't know what was going to happen I didn't start out for health reasons necessarily I started out to heal that issue and the more research I did and the more I fell in love with it and the more I loved my food and the the better I felt and then I started reading about abstainers and moderators and realized that I'm an abstainer there's there's not something wrong with me like I would go to the store and when I was buying you know gluten-free Oreos for the family for a treat or something because I've been gluten-free for a long time I know because they're Health Foods I know um but you know if we were having a party or we were having company and I would buy them I would get two packs because one was for me and I was gonna like hide and eat it I was going to take a whole handful and go somewhere and eat them and act like I wasn't doing it you know I mean like I did that for years I definitely had a binge eating problem I would eat all kinds of stuff like that and but at the same time I was really healthy on the other side of it you know what I mean like that was a binge and then for two weeks I would punish myself with what I thought was healthy a juice fast or just salad or I wouldn't eat for 3 days as a punishment to myself for eating those things you know it was just this constant cycle for me so it was about six months in that I learned about an abstainer versus moderator and realized that it is a thing it's not just me other people have this same problem so I'm I was either abstaining or I was binging you know and so that made a big difference once I learned about that I realized why I can't take a day off or take a meal off without and I didn't last Christmas I think was the last time I actually had sugar so about six months in I had a couple of little things here and there and I was amazed that I didn't binge on it like once I was done I was done if I had you know one little bite of something I I've never been able to do that have one bite of something and Last Christmas I was able to do that but I haven't done it since so on Christmas it'll have been a year since I had any sugar or anything like that at all um but I do think that it changed my my brain chemistry and about six months in I realized I was better that I wasn't sick anymore I didn't have disordered to eating anymore I didn't have an eating disorder anymore and that I feel healthy in my brain too probably for the first time I don't know maybe ever right yeah I mean s you went in trying to cure one particular problem which was you know not being able to handle the taste or smell of any food other than meat Fresh Off The Grill uh and I suppose also you were hoping for um a weight loss goal as well and you've like the amount that you've learned and the amount that you've healed in the past 18 months you know it's way more than you were sort of bargaining for um but yeah fantastic what yeah I tear up I tear up on a daily basis basically you know I yeah I get teary eyed almost on a daily basis thinking about how healthy I am physically and mentally you know I didn't have a good childhood my mom's an alcoholic my dad was a drug addict and so I don't know that I was ever really healthy mentally until the last you know 18 months or so and that's pretty amazing that is amazing yeah yeah what are you what are you eating at the moment Serena talk us through what's working uh lots of chicken wings even though I don't think I I know that chicken is not the best thing for me I know that I feel better when I eat mostly red meat but I don't know I got this thing for chicken wings lately um maybe about six months really if I'm being honest about it and the bag that I finished last week I wasn't going to buy any more for a while but today I bought more and made some actually during uh during the other Zoom for the patreon group I was eating chicken wings and I could see Olivia like doing this I sent her a private message I was like it's chicken wings Olivia yeah but I I love my chicken wings it's actually the only time I ever use a condiment I do use a little bit of hot sauce it's the only time I ever use a condiments I know I'm sorry I know I'm a monster but I think it's they're going to come take my card away right the carnival police are going to come get me Carnival but um yeah right but I think it goes back to my childhood when my mom used to take me to you know like a happy hour place with 10 cent wings you know now they're like a150 of Buffalo Wild Wings they were like 10 cents at the time for happy hour and I remember sitting there and there was just something about I don't know because it wasn't really necessarily a good part of my childhood because my mom was over there doing happy hour and I was like eight or nine years old but I just love chicken wings and then I deprived myself of them for so many years because they were bad for me because they were fried you know so for so many years I didn't eat them and now I have just found a new you know a new love for them and I still try to eat mostly red meat and I eat lots of eggs but chicken wings are everything I do lots of egg yolk chaffles with butter mixed into the egg yolks and then you know put them in the little waffle maker and it's very bread-like to go with eggs I don't like my eggs by themselves I don't really like scrambled eggs I like eggs over easy with some salt on maybe just a little bit of cheese sprinkled on but I don't like them by themselves so I have to have something to kind of sop it up with you know um and so I like the chaffles for that so I'll eat that for breakfast a lot of times which is a ton of fat because of the extra egg yolks and then of course lots of butter and then for lunch um like today I had some of those little Cloud breads with um some turkey and cheese and a little bit of homemade mayonnaise on it for a meal but typically I don't eat stuff like that typically it's leftover steak from the day before or leftover Burgers from Wednesday you know we'll make like 20 Burgers all at once and we'll make like eight steaks all at once and then we'll make some ribs one day and then we'll just kind of have that food for the rest of the week but um I have a meat and cheese casserole in the refrigerator right now that my kids love and my husband loves and so I'll make that and that they'll kind of snack on that throughout the week and I'll eat you know like more steak and hamburgers I do eat a little bit of the meat and cheese casserole but not as much as everybody else does I think you know because of all the cheese but um that's kind of that's kind of what I eat mostly is steak and hamburgers and chicken wings and eggs and you know you can't go wrong with that and then lots and lots of butter yeah I I was going to say too I remember those those Wing Days like where it's like on um when I was in uh San Diego it was like Wednesdays that was the days like Wednesday wings and so all these different wing places it would be like yeah you say like 10 cent wings yeah and it's always had like all these different sauces like that so we would go um the guys on the rugby team we'd go just all the to all the different places and just get get wings and we would just Crush these things you know like you got these like you know like you you know eight or 10 like big rugby players just going to town on these wings and um you know you get like 50 of these things five you know like you know five dollar whatever it was like just nothing and um and uh and you just AB just just Crush these things those were great I actually do sort of like think about that sometimes because I really did like those but like I don't want I don't want the sauce and I don't want them to like fry it in like you know canola oil and things like that yeah but uh you know but I I did I sort of miss those things they don't have that option here in Australia that I know of anyway not in Perth but like um you know but those those were always always really good um now Buffalo Wild Wings fries theirs and beef Tallow oh do they yeah they do so if you can find one of those or when you're traveling Buffalo Wild Wings uses beef Tallow and um I make them at home I just put them in the air fryer and just let them get crispy like that I get them I like them extra crispy at Buffalo Wild Wings I always ask for them to fry them twice because I like them really I like it to Crunch when I bite into it and then I just make them at home in the air fryer there I put like six of them in there and let them get really good and crispy flip them over halfway through and then I just dip them in just a little bit of the sauce shame feel your disappointment we're gonna have to end the interview here Serena so so the the Mayo you make was that that's something that um that uh i' i' my mom used to make make May like she she' make mayo but she would use you know different different oils I don't even know what oil she would use but anyway oil as you know plant oil as opposed to Fat like what are you what are you making your Mayo with I use usually I use bacon grease and you put in a jar like a mason jar and it's best if you have a stick blender you know one of those long blenders you can shove down in there and I put two egg yolks and um like half a teaspoon of either vinegar or lemon juice and some salt in there and then put the immersion blender down in it and start start doing it like turn it on and then you pour the grease in it has to be melted but not hot right you know what I mean like so almost where it's starting to get hard again and just pour right yeah and pour it in slowly while you're you know doing the immersion blender and it goes from being this like liquid to all of a sudden being a mayonnaise texture it's the coolest thing to watch so I usually use bacon grease for that nice cool yeah and that yeah that's what people you know bacon aegs or whatever um they call it like it's like sounds amazing and you May's nice too you know you put on like you know things that are dryer like some chicken or ham or whatever um yeah but just anything it's just sort of nice to do that and then people get like Cloud bread and you can put that you know some of that the bacon mayonnaise in there and then you have the cloud bread which is just eggs egg whites really just a it's just like a baked mering really and like and then you know some meat in there you know some cheese if you want it and like it's not bad and uh it's got a lot of you know people miss that sort of sandwich experience you know that's that's a way they can do it um and then you talk about your family uh you know you know eating like the the Meat Castle and things like that how have they taken this taken to this are they are they obviously I would imagine they're supportive of you but are they sort of taking after you in this as well or are they sort of eating everything they think I'm a little bit crazy I think you know our two older kids are 22 and 20 and they're just they both still live here but they both just kind of do their own thing for food our daughter does a lot of food preps she has one of those you know little wine refrigerators downstairs in the basement and she makes all of her little meal preps in the containers and takes it down there and stops and gets one on her way out the door for work and then our son Heats you know just basic normal food he doesn't watch what he eats necessarily our two younger girls are 16 and 14 and they eat they eat pretty good like lots of protein they do eat some frood and do eat some carbs you know I'm I'm not um rigid about it for them you know there comes a point where they have to make their own decision I think when they're younger it's easier because you can just switch them yeah but once they get to be this age like 14 and 16 that's just a really hard thing to I mean not that I couldn't do it I could I just don't know that it's necessary for them yet I would like for them to make that decision they do eat what we cook if we make steak they have steak if we make burgers they have Burgers they eat all the stuff that we make and if we go out a lot of times they'll get a burger without the bun you know or something like that but um but they're not my husband is mostly carnivore since um early this year and so that makes it a lot easier for me so we just it's you know easier for both of us because we're just both eating the same things all the time so so that works out really well yeah well that's cool and you I agree I mean once you get to a certain point you're you know you're not really able to sort of force people to do things and um you sort of missed the boat on that one uh just from the timing of it but at the same time your your family is obviously seeing your results and how well you're doing and how interested you are in it and you're learning more and you're going to be talking about it because you're interested in it and you're like wow look at this look what I found look at this video look at this all these sorts of things that that obviously has an effect on them because they're they're going out and ordering certain they know bunless hamburgers as well when you guys go out so you know you know it's obviously you know making an impression on them and they're seeing those benefits and at some point they're just you know might be able to just say well why don't I just try this all the way and see how I go and I'm sure they'll be feeling better just as a result of just eating more meat as well and just we're trying to limit these things out so you know it's it sounds like they they're coming around and and hopefully you know might might give to give it a shot someday yeah and they love beef bacon like our local butcher makes beef bacon and so that's one of the things I try to almost always kind of keep in the house and I'll kind of ration it I order maybe 10 12 pounds a month and go pick it up and come home make that it does have the seasoning on it but it doesn't taste and smell rotten to me so I'm thrilled to have just a little bit of the seasoning on that I eat regular bacon too so it's not a big deal to have that little bit of seasoning but they love that and I ordered it was supposed to be ready Thursday and he didn't tell me when it was ready probably because he told me on Tuesday that it would be ready on Thursday but I forgot so I didn't go and I remembered today but we were busy and I was like on the way home we have to stop and take up the beef bacon and my 16-year-old was so excited she was like we're having beef bacon for dinner and I was like yeah I was so excited pull in all the lights were off they closed I don't know what time today I didn't look after afterwards but they usually close at 6 during the week they close early today I kid you not I almost cried I was like I can't believe I can't have beef bacon today I wanted beef bacon call home be like look this is an emergency get down to the butcher shop now look this is this is this is life and death because I will literally kill everyone around me if I don't get this have to have it yeah yeah it's so good though I mean it's completely different than bacon but really really good and everybody in the house likes it like they come into the kitchen they say making beef bacon I have to do two whole pans of it every time I make it but everybody likes it so you guys don't have beef bacon you should get some beef bacon I've never had it I I really really want to to try it I don't know where where you could get it maybe I'll have to just you know ask a butcher see if they can do a special or something like that well I got some at Sam's one time but don't fall for it because it was almost like a almost like a deli meat texture was not good don't don't fall for it if they have it at Costco don't buy it is it a bit like like I'll do do a brisket slow cooked and then I'll slice it up and then I'll fry it in Tallow or butter in a cast iron pan I've sort of thought that was kind of a bit like beef bacon have you done that Anthony no I haven't that like if if I was going to reheat it like if it's cold um yeah haven't actually done that yet but like that that was something I think was like oh that' be good to do that way yeah yeah that sounds like beef bacon except it's just not cured I mean but that's basically what it is he uses brisket for it so it's just really thin sliced brisket and then it's cured so yeah yeah same thing probably it's probably very similar yeah it's nice it gets all crispy in the pan that's good yeah H interesting so is that is that um have you have you come come across beef bacon uh not not really supply of that here no I hav saying in any Aussie butcher shops okay yeah I have to sort of find that stuff yeah there there a few specialty butchers around Perth like I'll have to just go and ask them and see if um see if that's something that they do and because it sounds great you know and just like Bacon's awesome obviously and yeah but like also like I just you know beef is amazing and like that's like my favorite my favorite thing to eat so like I like the idea of being able to do that with with with beef as well yeah and I when I first went looking for it like he doesn't advertise it so that might be the same way with your butchers there is maybe they're not advertising it but they'll make it for you if you ask them because he doesn't adverti it but I had seen somebody talking about it online and I was like oh well I'm going to have to find this um and so I went in you know and asked him about it but it's really good and it's the same price as whatever you know like the brisket is and when I first bought it I went looking for it because I was doing the lion diet for a month last summer and I just thought well I know it has some on but it gives me yeah yeah it gives me a different way to have the beef you know it's a ruminant animals only um and I don't like lamb or anything like that so I was like it would be nice if I had a different way to have the beef so even it's got some spices on it I went ahead and I use it when I do when I do beef only when I'm just doing the lion diet I eat it anyway because it is beef and so um yeah and um yeah it's cool they can do that supposedly anyone could that's awesome they doesn't charge you extra I mean he he's you putting in's he's doing extra work so it could be you're a good customer so yeah well that's it yeah yeah um all right leading question Serena when you first went Carnival was there something that you tweaked that that then provided a breakthrough uh perhaps in in Fat Loss yeah so when I first started I jumped right into fasting don't do that don't jump right into fasting when you start going forth that is not the right way to do it I jumped right into fasting I kept hearing eat when hungry until full and don't count calories and fasting is good and so because I'm an All or Nothing person I decided that if a 24-hour fast is good a 48 hour fast must be better and so I fasted Monday Wednesday and Friday and I had two hamburgers with a little bit of cheese Tuesday Thursday Saturday and Sunday and there might have been one day a week where I ate a little bit more than that you know or had two meals or something but I was very very strict with the fasting and I started very low calorie at the end of the week I was probably only eating four or 5,000 calories and didn't I know that's that's not enough no don't don't don't don't do that don't do that I know part of story I'm not done yet I'm not done so so I got to be like I mean literally eight months nine months in scale kept going up like it would it would be the same one or two pounds and then it would go up an extra pound and then it would stay there and then it would be the same one or two pounds and then it would go an extra pound like really slow over the eight month period but the scale was definitely going up and I would try to eat more but it felt wrong to me it just felt so wrong and because I wasn't counting my calories like I guess I'm a numbers person I had to see it so after about eight months I just was I was crying I couldn't believe I was up another clothing size 18 pounds is a lot I'm only 5'3 and I already had like 10 pounds I needed to lose and so you know now I'm looking at 28 pounds instead of 10 that's a huge so I was just I was a mess I just I kept hearing it's because you're healing it's because you're healing and I wanted to believe that so I just kept proding along and then one day I was like I got to count my cou here and it was like two hamburgers and some cheese with a little bit of butter it was super easy to put in I don't know why I didn't do it sooner like just to check but just people kept saying don't count calories and so I put it into my carb manager and realized I was eating you know like eight or 900 calories every other day and I was like good no wonder I'm not losing weight so for four months I ate at maintenance calories I put in my food in the app and acted like I wasn't trying to lose weight so I could like fix my metabolism also I tined my progesterone by doing that just I wasn't eating enough my body just had no idea what was going on it was holding on to everything because of it and putting on weight because of it it was like in crisis mode I guess and so I did four months at maintenance and then I was able to lower it a little bit and started losing weight so then in in six months I lost 35 pounds it doesn't sound as great when you say in 18 months I lost 35 pounds but and I didn't lose it in 35 pounds I lost it I mean I didn't lose it in 18 months I lost it because I had gained before that right it's not a race but it's but and it was I hated it at the time you know then I was super upset about it and I hated the process I was so upset with myself I was so upset with my progress and I just kept thinking how stupid am I to follow this you know and other people would say to me like well it's no wonder you're gaining weight like I couldn't didn't feel like I could be a role model for the carnivore diet you know so that was really hard for me to speak publicly about the carnivore diet knowing that I was gaining weight you know was it was really hard time for me to figure out where I was in this community and do I really have anything to say if I've G gained 18 pounds I mean sure I felt good but do I really have anything to say and I had you know and I had healed my you know fixed my brain and I had fixed so many other things that you know I I just tried to like use that to overcompensate for the for the weight but in any case so I lost it lost 35 pounds in six months and feel you know really great and so now that's part of my story I hated it at the time but now I look back on that and I'm like well that was part of my journey and I wouldn't be able to help the so many of people that I help now when people come to me and say I don't understand what's going on I'm not losing weight and people who weigh 200 250 pounds tell me what they're eating and they're eating a thousand calories and I'm like well there's your problem and it's really hard for people to wrap their mind around it and I think if I hadn't experienced that it would be harder for me to explain that and sympathize with people and help them with that so I guess you it was part of my journey and I've just come to and I'm still at the same place it took me a little bit longer you know than I wanted it to but I'm I'm where I wanted to be and that's just you know part of my story now yeah that's that's something like in in bariatric medicine even like bariatric surgeons that do the you know the the bypass surgeries um and you know um taking off parts of the stomach and the small intestine to make it physically harder to eat stuff and you actually take out the part of the stomach that secretes gin which is uh you know when your stretch receptors that you know when they're empty you secrete gin it says hey we're empty there's nothing in the pipeline so if you don't have enough leptin your brain goes like okay you need to eat something normally it's it's tempered by the Le the leptin but if you're eating carbohydrates the insulin will block the leptin and fructose will independently block the leptin as well as increasing the insulin which will block the leptin and fructose always comes with glucose generally so that will that will all compound to block your leptin and fructose actually upregulates grin as well so you get this like Jesus you got to eat and so one of the one of the things that that these uh surgeries do these bariatric surgeries do like physically removes the area of the stomach that secretes gin and that seems to help with with Hunger suppression as well uh a lot easier to just stop eating like fruit honey and and sugar you know I think anyway and um but you know they they'll talk about how and I don't know where this is coming from but this is just this is just from what I've been told by bariatric surgeons and and like nutritionists that work with them is that basically 1,200 calories is sort of the the mark um that like if you if you're eating less than 1,200 calories a day you you will not lose weight so you have to eat at least 1,200 calories a day uh or else your body like you say goes in this crisis hanic lockdown mode that says okay we're in a famine we're going to die like we need to we need to really really really hold on to every single SP spare calorie that we have and and so you end up it ends up being difficult to lose weight I mean this this flies in the face of the calories in calories out crowd uh because this is a clear demonstrable uh phenomenon that happens and and you can actually track this and people's metabolism will slow down and and will um will will be want to store fat as opposed to use your fat stores and you know and that seems to be the Tipping Point you get a bit less than that all of a sudden you're gaining weight par it seems paradoxically but not when you actually understand the biochemistry and what's going on and and unfortunately uh a lot of people don't you know pushing that that sort of the calories in calories out sort of thing and uh but that that is something that that you see so it's it's um you know I think you've made you made the point that like yeah you don't want to you when people say don't count calories it's really just like hey don't you know uh count calories and say like this is how much I'm going to eat I'm not going to eat more than that you know that's usually when people are are dieting or going doing this for weight loss they have like a limit like I'm only going to eat this much and then I stop you know it's usually the opposite problem where as you very much undereating and the point that I've heard you made which I think is a good point is that you know sometimes you might need to track your calories just to make sure you're eating enough because it's very easy to undereat and that that's something I noticed when I first did this you know 22 years ago um was that I you know I always was undereating and and that ended up you know biting me um because you know you just you can't you can't do that forever and I was I was going and um I was also taking like like it was over it was over the counter like um there was like an energy pill called Ripped Fuel which is crazy stuff and it's like it's ton of a fedrin in it and so like So that obviously G to really suppress your your hunger as well is that like a pre-workout or something yeah exactly yeah so like you know this is when I was playing you know rugby and I was just like you know just just training all the time I was playing with with the University team I was playing with the you know the Premiership team and I was going to college going to University and so and I was this stuff come out and like my Bo's like yeah you know this great energy pills I'm like great yeah try that and um and so it just really suppressed my Hunger even more and Al obviously your hunger is very different so I just never felt hungry and like I even you know um and I and I had tons of energy because that's what the fedrin does you have tons of energy and um and so like I was just I was just going around I was just like just just get up you know go to go to class you know as soon as I finish class straight into you know uh training and I would train until you know 10:00 at night it was like from 3:30 to 10:00 at night every single day and then I'd have you know at least three games on the weekends if not uh if not more and um and that was just it that was just what I did and because I was so busy and because I was you I was up early and I was I was home late you know I didn't have any chance to eat during the day and I never felt like it anyway and at night I never realized I was like oh maybe I should eat I was like I really don't have time so I would just like drink like half a gallon water to fill my stomach and I'd just go to sleep and then the next day I didn't feel hungry in the morning I'd just go and so every now and then I would be you know I wouldn't I'd be home like at 9 or something like that I'm like oh okay you know I have I have I have some time maybe I'll maybe I'll have something to eat and I'll have time to cook and and I think just like yeah you know that's good you know because I you know I didn't eat yesterday uh and I didn't eat the day before that I was like did I eat the day before that I was just like okay I need to eat something like that's ridiculous but I I did not feel hungry and uh obviously because the e fedrin was not helping with that and and then I would just eat just pounds and pounds and pounds of of you know beef and eggs and things like that um and uh it didn't always do that like you know every now and then like I I it was amazing I went to I went to like the grocery store by the university and like one day they had a sale on ribey right it was a like a120 a pound for RI eyes and I was like I like that c that can't be real I I started taking I I took one and like took it another I'm like can I just take more of these it didn't say like you know limit one or whatever I I see a little more and like then a couple more and I'm like okay and I just sort of kept like like you know guiltily like taking more and more I just started loading up this this cart with all this beef and like the butcher was just like hey you know leave something for someone else okay all right scurried off because I felt like I was doing something bad you know when I when I went back and talked to my brother he was just like should just f with the whole thing be like whatever you know you you know Screw you like make some more you know like it doesn't say I can't do that and yeah but then I was like yeah I had like I had like tons and tons and tons of meat tons of these Stakes it came out to be like you know it's like all right $68 and the guy you like that's a lot of meat for $68 and I was like yeah it's amazing like it's it's on sale you got to check it out like yeah I'm going off in 15 minutes I'm going to fill up too and uh so when I was had that like I was just like every day I was like oh get that stick you know because it was it was awesome but there were there were periods that like yeah I just didn't I didn't eat like literally days in a row and I just never felt hungry and uh and it ended up biting me because eventually I got to the point where I just I just was not eating and and I was I was not feeling better like normally every workout everything I did I was I could feel my getting better and stronger and faster and fitter every single time and then it got to the point where every workout I did actually took me down a Peg and I was just like this is this isn't right and I remember thinking I was just like is probably I'm just not eating enough like that has to be what it is but I was just like I'm just not hungry like what what am I supposed to eat I'm not hungry you know so it was very weird for me and uh and I think that's something that uh obviously hopefully people aren't taking to fedrin but like it's a you know it's it's it's something that you don't notice as much on a carnivore diet because you just your hunger signals are so different and so I think that that's a good point is that you know you you should you should at least track and make sure you're eating enough you know and if you can't do that just by just eating until things stop tasting good or whatever then you maybe keep a track of that is is a good idea but you know you definitely want to get enough anyway I think you I was gonna say the other problem with their sort of calories argument is that people get confused and they think that you know calories from beef is the same as like calories from you know like carbohydrate from bread or something like that so they say oh well I'll just load up I'll just spend all my calories on bread or something like that I think that's why that's why the carnival Community are often like don't count calories don't worry about calories yeah like like these things are fungible you know what I mean yeah yeah exactly yeah just swap you know swap lollies the same yeah yeah you just need this amount of calories doesn't come a matter if it's it's yeah just yeah just just I'm just going to drink syrup you know Maples yeah and that's and that's fine you know that those are my calories for today and that's the only thing that matters these are these are complex you know molecules complex organic molecules they have they have a chemical reaction in your body they do different things and you know anyone who has taken chemistry and and certainly biochemistry should know that and a lot of these guys that are proponents of this uh have taken biochemistry like that's a prerequisite for medical school in America and so you know any Doctor Who says oh yeah it doesn't matter like obviously wasn't paying attention when they should have been in class yeah you you reminded me this is totally off topic completely off topic but you were talking about taking the ephedrin when I was in my early well starting when I was a teenager but when I was in my early 20s I was a dis jockey on the radio and I did traffic reports too that's actually how my husband and I met he was the pilot that flew me around in Raleigh to do my traffic reports but um what cute yeah but anyway um I worked so much to try to make a name in radio for myself Raleigh that I would work Monday through Friday as a traffic reporter so I would work you know like 5:30 in the morning until 9:00 a.m. and then I would go to one of the radio stations where I worked and I would do like promotions and stuff all day I would help them with stuff then I would go back to traffic from 3:30 to 6 and then in the evening like my shift at the traffic Place ended at 6 usually I had a shift at a radio station that went until midnight so I would have to call the radio station and get the person that was already there to wait for me to get there and um and then I would go home and I would sleep from 12:30 until you know 5:00 in the morning but I took lots and lots of caffeine pills and edrin to stay awake but then I also had to take something to make me sleep and my stomach was upset all the time I was nauseous all the time I carried like on Friday nights when I got off at traffic and I went to go work from 600 to midnight at midnight I had a shift at a different radio station and I would work there from Midnight to 6 and then I would work from 600 to noon at the first radio station I worked at three different radio stations at the same time like that all weekend long until Sunday night at 6: pm and then I would go home and I would stay up all weekend I would stay up I didn't go home at all I carried cans of soup and tuna fish in my backpack and I would eat at the radio stations but I was so sick to my stomach I could barely eat I was miserable but that was how I kept going was like the caffeine pills and the ephedrin and then I would have to take you know like something or something whatever it was over the counter you know that would help me go to sleep on Sunday nights so I could sleep from like 600 PM until 5: when I had to go start my week over again it was miserable my stomach was so upset from all the ephedrin so totally different topic but a little bit relatable because of the Eed yeah yeah it's probably a good thing that that stuff's not available really anymore I remember um yeah when I was in San Diego playing uh down there for albach playing rugby down there in the US Super League um it was sort of getting harder and harder to to get and so you'd have to order off the internet from somewhere and I remember like you know didn't sort of have some and there was um uh there was a guy on my team and like he asked me he's like oh yeah I got these I don't know where he got them from El Salvador or something like that but he was just like he's like yeah these things are like really strong you'll just take one I was just like yeah I've been taking two before a game you know for for a while I was like it should be fine oh my God was that a mistake like I felt like I was going to have a heart attack it was just like it was just my part was just going crazy I'm like oh this is bad this is bad that wasn't a feder that was it was like meth or something like that like it was bad like I I don't know what this thing was do to my body but I felt wretched for days after that and was so bad I did I didn't sleep that night at all I did not sleep and um I don't even know if I took two but like even just one I was like oh my God like that stuff was terrible and and I I felt horrible for days after that and um but yeah fedrin wasn't great great either like that's what coffee does to me now coffee does that to me now keeps me up all night makes me feel like I'm gonna have a heart attack I blame you for that me what what I do getting you off I got you off of it I got you off the junk you know I know the last the last 5% makes 95% of the difference for most people that's what made me go off coffee was saying that so I blame you you got the benefits of it so there you go I did I'm kidding I'm kidding but I've had coffee twice since I went off of it in April and both times I thought I was gonna have a heart attack I mean it was bad so yeah I'm good yeah have it now it's just yeah it's just not worth it I don't need it no you don't need it and uh I don't need it anymore yeah well that was one of the things too people talking about about sleep and and most people get much better sleep much better yeah much much better and mine certainly is I was ter a terrible sleeper my whole life and and I would have I would be one of those kids that would just be up all night just staring at the ceiling just not being able to go to sleep or even like laying there with my eyes closed but like I just could not get to sleep and I would feel tired but my mind was just so active in rais and I didn't like have caffeine as a kid but I I could not turn my brain off and like and and just get to sleep and I would just I would get to the point where I was just like all constantly looking at the clock and obviously that's making me very stressed like I only have 6 hours now I only have 5 hours now I only have 3 hours now like I only have two hours like oh my God can I please just get 20 damn minutes to sleep you know and it's just like there's I'm like and as soon as it's like time to get up and then I'm just like exhausted my body I was like come on you know and then I'm I'm just like wrecked throughout the day in uh in school so that was always the thing I was I was I was flipped I was like I was just a night person like I was wide awake wired all night and just dying all day and then I get all day I was just desperately trying to stay awake in class and I get like all I could think about was like getting home and going to sleep as soon as I got back it was just wi you know so it was very frustrating but you know some people will but and then my sleep's great now and it's very very easy uh to get to sleep and get to sleep and stay asleep but some people will say that they have worse time uh getting to sleep which is weird to me but like a lot of times it's there there's different things that can that can contribute but a lot of the time if someone's still drinking coffee or and and they like but I'm only having one cup of coffee I'm drinking less coffee than I used to but it just it just affects you differently now and um I don't know why but there's this some sort of you know mix and concoction of things that you're you're eating and drinking is different now and this caffeine is is much more potent and and affects you and so people have this morning cup of coffee and then at night they're having really hard time sleeping and then they cut it out and it's like okay yeah that's what it was but it it seems weird to them because they're actually drinking less coffee than they were when they were sleeping better on a mixed side that's weird yeah well there's also the um like people who are having trouble sleeping were finding that they're they're not eating enough uh and they're not getting enough nutrition and it's sort of causing this kind of like anxious kind of stressed out feeling when they're sleeping and maybe they're can't get disabled they're just waking up really early feeling um yeah anxious and sort of wired which I've defin definitely experienced um Serena what's happening with the are you eating the butter before bed I am yeah Dr brigh calls it wired but tired like you wake up in the middle of the night and feel like you're up for the day but it's only 2 am and sometimes you think you're up because you have to go to the bathroom but it's not really because you have to go to the bathroom she's talking about your cortisol rising and lowering in the middle of the night and so you get that flight or fright feeling when you wake up and that's what it's like when I wake up in the middle of the night I feel like it's day time and I should just get up but I don't want to because I need to sleep I know that I do and I want to rest it's only been three hours I've been in bed you know I'm not going to get up then and I will literally lay in bed sometimes for two hours before I can fall back asleep so I saw a video with Dr Bren at talking about that and about how there are some things in butter that actually can help calm your cortisol and lower it and help you go back to sleep and so I started trying to incorporate more butter in the last like week or so anyway because I realized I probably wasn't getting enough fat just General I have a hard time even still even after 18 months I have a hard time making sure I'm eating enough if I don't go out of my way and make a conscious effort to make sure that I'm eating enough sometimes even after 18 months and even after I know the mistake I made at the beginning it's still hard to remember that you have to eat more and it's the same way with fat it's hard to remember that we need that fat that we need that butter and so anyway it's it's a hard thing to imagine but she talks about taking some butter to bed with you and taking a big bite before bed and so I take my stick of butter out I actually like unsalted better if I'm going to like take the stick out and unwrap it and take a bite I actually prefer the unsalted better for that and then I'll bring some into our bedroom and put it on my nightstand next to the bed and in the middle of the night when I wake up I just reach over I feel like it feels really weird in the middle of the night to reach over and pick up this napkin or paper towel that has the butter on it like I'm laying down B I'm like put the maskin back but it works I'm able to go right back to sleep a couple of nights in the last week and a half I have slept through without waking up at all which is really I mean I have not been sleeping well for the last several months I wonder if it's my hormones maybe or whatever and and I do think it could be my hormones like I laid in bed the other night after I woke up and had gone back to sleep you know like in the morning when I was waking up I was thinking could all like how many women are having hormone issues just because they don't eat enough butter just because they don't eat enough fat because Fat's bad for us butter is bad for us everybody uses margarine or I mean I used to use spray butter that is not butter but you know it's basically spray liquid artificial salt with butter flavoring but I just wonder it just really makes you think mil how many of us are having hormone issues because we don't need enough fat and so if it's my cortisol and my hormones waking me up in the middle of the night then it makes sense that the butter would kind of help me go back to sleep so for people that are having trouble sleeping the butter really has helped me a lot in the last week and a half and it feels really weird but I already have my pajamas on I'm getting ready to come upstairs and it's the last thing I do is I open the refrigerator door I peel up in that butter and I take a bite and the rest of it I'll leave some up on my nightstand you know like I'll leave it there for several days until it's gone but it's really interesting that because I thought there's no way this is going to work but it really has helped me sleep a lot that's good um I I remember just eating butter there was like obviously when you're when you're you you can convince yourself of a lot of things and so a lot a lot of people convince themselves that fat bad for them even though we have these like urges like these guilty guilty urges to eat it and and um and that's where you know people can have have disordered eating and you know binging and purging and things like that the body saying like you should you need to eat this you need these nutrients and then you you know you uh have to um you know Purge to to get the stuff out of them if you don't want that in your system that and that can obviously create big big problems for people um but you know even even for me like when I was like seeing the research and seeing the studies and knowing that that like okay cholesterol is not what we thought it was um you know saturated fats not the problem that we thought it was um I was and I was doing carnivore I I still was cutting off the fat I remember I caught myself once and I was just like cutting fat off I'm like what am I doing like I trust the research I trust the data Fat's good for me eat the damn fat and I literally said that to myself eat the damn fat and so I I started but I I couldn't it just it was like in my my whole being just sort of revolted against it it was just like oh no you can't you can't do that no that's bad I Associated that that taste and texture which I enjoyed with bad outcomes and so I you know I just like my body just like rebelled against it so I had to sort of relearn that and sort of take a little bit of slice and then put that in with some lean slice of fat and put that in some lean meat and and that would taste good together I'm like oh okay so I started doing that now I can just eat the fat now I can just eat butter tastes amazing and I just remember when I was in I was in high school it's one of those stupid things you do when your kids and um we were I was like you know um hanging out with some friends I think we drinking or whatever and um and just sort of talking about all the like these weird like things that were in uh my buddy Jonathan's refrigerator and like just basically like putting all this concoction together and just like and people were like betting on it to see if like I would eat it you know and and uh and and so it was just like put it together some people was like oh yeah like you know two bucks or three bucks whatever and then people sort of bucked up and then one person was just like yeah and so we we came around it was like like a pound of butter oh man and like 12 uh eggs but it turned out they were like fertilized eggs for like a like a high school like Biology experiment something like that and U not like very they still just look like eggs but like it turned out that they were like fertilized they're part of this like science experiment his uh his uh mom uh taught in high school and college and So like um I had this like classic project like in the fridge that I like drank and then like some weird drink with like wasure sauce and a bunch of other just random things that they thought would just be horrible and it was and it was like and then one person was just like and people like oh yeah I'd pay you two bucks or five bucks or whatever and they sort of had it in was like oh like 20 bucks like all right yeah maybe and one person's like oh yeah absolutely I'll put 50 on that I'm like oh well there we go like we're doing this now you know like you're a kid and uh I didn't have a job at that point so I was like that was like real money to me I'm like okay like we're doing this this was your job yeah it was my exactly it was my job and um and so I was just like I was just like all right I was like like tracking how to do this I thought like you know like drinking the eggs was going to be like a harder thing and like texture-wise and like whatever the hell that shot was that was going to be horrible and um and then and then you know I thought the butter was going to be easy I was just like okay I I was just like I had a plan I was like in the fridge it was GNA be hard I was like well I don't want to do that it take longer so I'll put in the microwave for like 15 seconds and and soften it up and then I can just slurp this stuff down and so and I had an hour to do it right or was it no I had 15 minutes to do it so I had 15 minutes to do and it was a BET right so if I lost I I was I was uh responsible for for that right and um and so I had 15 minutes and so I like I put this stuff in the refrigerator or sorry took it from the refrigerator put it in the microwave nuked it for a bit I was like bang go and I was like doing this and people were like well what are you doing I got it and had soft it was like soft and I went I grabbed it I was like yeah my body would not allow me to swallow it it literally stopped I'm like trying to I I forgot how to swallow it's just like it just wouldn't happen it's supposed to happen automatically it's just like it's not happening like I'm like pushing the the swallow button it's like not swallowing I'm like what the hell is happening my my but just absolutely rebelled it was like you are not doing that to yourself you monster and um it just like actually refused I'm like just trying to get this down but I was like so like just revolted by this I couldn't do it my body would not let me swallow it and I ended up um I was just like I was like I I can't do it I I can't do it and like my buddy was just like he like all right look we we'll redo this because they really wanted to see me do this and just suffer the whole time so I had to do I had to eat it in 15 minutes and then I had to keep it down for an hour that was the deal and um and so you know so they were like all right look we'll br down to one stick of butter that you have to I was just like look I can't do it this is not this is this is this isn't possible like this isn't tenable it's not going to happen there's no way I'm getting a pound of uh you know four sticks of butter that it's just not happening all right you get down one stick and then all the rest I'm like oh Jesus and so he said yes and and it just it it literally took me 14 and a half minutes to get this one stick of butter down I was just sort it was just a little bit at a time it was just like oh my God I was just like had it like melt in my mouth it sort of like swallow it down I was like my whole body was rebelling against this and um I was like literally I was looking at the clock and they're all just laughing again they thought they were they was watching me suffer this whole time and they were going to win the bet and I got down to like it was probably I had like 15 seconds to go and um I I was just like got I just got the last of it down like great grab the and I was just like I was like well you guys have to crack the eggs for me and get those ready and do yeah fine yeah we'll do all that so it was ready so the second that I finish that thing just grabbed that boom shot it down and drag that thing down and it was down like 10 seconds they like no so ended up winning the bet I kept this in but I was so disgusted with myself that D that so I kept it down for the hour and then I was just like guys you know like I've I've gone through the hour I kept it down like but I don't I don't actually want this in my body I don't want this stuff in my system you know because I thought it was bad you know Fat's bad I don't want a whole stick of butter my goodness how could you so I was just like I was like is it all right if I just go and and take care of this and they're like absolutely like taking pictures of me like vomiting in the bushes and things like that and um and now I eat butter you know it's it's like that's the thing it's like like right now I'm thinking about it I'm like after this I'm gonna go and slice of butter and just eat it you know and it's so funny what we can do to ourselves to condition ourselves to to uh you know in One Direction or another it's very funny but yeah I remember that vividly about just just the horror that my body was uh you know it's the state of horror I was looking at was like you're eating you are not eating that and just wouldn't let me do it it was very funny and now just complete opposite yeah and now I have your friends who say I don't know how you do that I don't know how you can eat that much fat I don't know how you eat that much meat I couldn't do that and like what I want to say to them is just and I say this to other people I don't usually say it to my friends but I want to say just get out of your own way you're in you're in your way you know like it's your thoughts it's your process that's keeping you from doing it so if you don't try it then you don't know but you're the one that's standing in the way of this and that's what I had to do I had to get out of my way I was in my way for 35 years I was in my own way and I had to get out of my own way and try something different and be different you know in order to feel better and be better you know I'm a different person than I was then and um but my point is you know everybody thinks they can't do it you thought you couldn't do it you know with the butter and everybody now is saying oh you you can't do that you can't eat like that I can't eat like that I can't eat just fat and butter but you can you can and and you can feel really good for doing it yeah absolutely you know that that friend uh uh Jonathan's like um you know my best friend like he um he couldn't he couldn't eat fat if he saw it like it was marbled in and like that'd be fine but if he could he could visibly see fat like he could not eat it he you cut it off You' take it out you just never eat it and uh and even he he was just like yeah it took like a month I got over it he's like now I eat I definitely eat the fat eat the fat I like I you know love the fat now so you can even if you have like a and I never did that as maybe I trim some of it off it had a lot of excess but I would generally eat it you know the fat with the meat and um but he like wouldn't he couldn't and you know even he like came around he's like well actually like now I really like it so it's very very interesting like how we can condition ourselves to just hate the taste of something that's actually quite good for us and then when you sort of undo that block all of a sudden you're like wow actually that's amazing fantastic you know we' all already done it I was say I remember that with pork crackling like did you guys ever have roast pork when you growing up and then you'd have the crackling finish it off in the oven and we all loved it but it was as if you were having something that was really bad for you and so you'd sort of limit yourself but you wanted it so badly and like you know whereas now it' be like just have as much as much as what tastes good yeah that's what you go for you know you want something that's side fet yeah yeah yeah I was just going to say we have we've already done that with ourselves once taught ourselves to eat things we didn't like when we made ourselves eat broccoli and spinach and kale we've already done that one time so it's really easy to undo that and eat things that already tasted good but you just thought you shouldn't eat yeah that actually taste good as opposed to brool which does not you know and you broccoli is probably one of least offensive plants out there vegetables out there and that's why a lot of people eat it just because it isn't as bad as these other things but I remember as a kid absolutely hating broccoli hating broccoli especially raw that was just not going to happen and uh but cooked steamed you know it sort of diminished it but like I just couldn't stand it and you know thinking now like what broccoli tastes like to me well I have tried it since but like you know what the last time I had broccoli what that that sort of tastes like to me I was like is it is that that bad it's not like that offensive but you know I must have just drowned out some very you know uh Primal signals because when I was a kid I couldn't stand it the only way they could get me to eat any broccoli or come near broccoli was if they my mom put like just melted a ton of cheese make like a cheese sauce on it cheese sace and so I was I love the cheese sauce I'm like really like that so I'm like okay yeah I'll get that the broccoli and pour a bunch of cheese on it and I use the broccoli as sort of like a spoon to a spoon up cheese and just sort of like slurp it off the the uh broccoli but then like eat as little of the broccoli as possible with the cheese I mean I there take like a a small bite just to make it appear as if I was eating the broccoli with the cheese which I was definitely not and um that way even with the cheese sauce covering it like it just tasted horrible but that's the thing too if you have to cover up this taste just to eat it like how can that be something that that you evolve to eat you know how can how why do we why would we have evolved to hate the taste of our our most important nutrient doesn't make any sense and um and either way broccoli didn't exist you know even you know 5,000 years ago this is new we bioengineered we we've created this stuff um you know and so this you know you can't say that we were designed to eat something that didn't exist you know at the dawn of time like it just not it's not possible that's not a thing you know it's like one thing came before the other you know yeah yeah and it's gross yeah yeah simple um all right well that's uh that's the hour thanks so much Serena that was fun thank you so much it was awesome and we'll uh we'll have to get you one again for sure yeah definitely and and tell us where uh where people can find you and and about your online stuff as well yeah people can find me at serena. carnivore on Instagram and Tik Tok I just load the same stuff as I do on Instagram on Tik talkk but you know there's a different audience there so um and on Facebook I'm Serena music and you you'll see the picture I'm wearing my carnivore Revolution apron which brings me to the next place you can find me is with my friend jesselyn Randall she's my partner in crime you guys had her on not long ago but jesselyn and I do the carnival Revolution we have an Instagram page and a YouTube channel we make videos where we cook do interviews give you know our top five tips for carnivore and things like that and we have a lot of fun doing that so you can find me there also yeah that's good yeah yeah different uh different um demographic and Tik Tok is mostly uh you know teenage girls and know uh overweight middle-aged men living in their parents' basement so yeah if you want to hit that tap into that growing market then then get in there yeah might as well do that I wanted to say one more thing you guys know do you guys know my friend Kelly Hogan yeah you know who she is right I know who she is yeah yeah of course you know who she is um I was just gonna say I messaged her a late last week because I had gained a couple of pounds and I was really upset like and I was like I know it doesn't matter I know it doesn't sauce so I miss yeah sorry just rewind there it was obviously the hot sauce so anyway Hogan about it and she said she said so she understands completely she started working out you know recently put on a few pounds and that's what had happened was I started lifting weights again I started doing push-ups and squat challenges and just like I hadn't been doing that stuff for a while so I started doing all that again and she gave really good advice that I want to just repeat what she said she said in a me in a voice message to me she said so look at it like this you've already met that goal like your goal was whatever your weight goal was and you've met that goal it's time to move on so if a few pounds is what it takes to be stronger and healthier then that's what it's going to take and you're certainly not going to do yourself any harm by gaining you know five pounds of muscle and being stronger because of it and it just it just really helped me to kind of let go of that weight thing yeah I just felt like her words of wisdom were so good and so I just wanted to share that like for anybody who meets their goal and starts lifting weights or if you're already lifting weights while you're losing weight and the scale stays the same like just keep in mind that you're not doing you're not doing anything that's not good by lifting the weights while you're trying to lose weight and I kind of waited because I wanted to see the scale go down and I wish I hadn't done that I wish i' have just gone back to lifting weights much sooner because I'd be so much farther along but so many of us women I think do that we don't we don't want this scale to say the same while we're getting smaller we want to see the number get smaller instead and so you know my advice is to absolutely start exercising right away and don't wait on that because you just kind of your the scale is moving in the right direction but I set myself back by doing it that way yeah well that's a good point and um you know you're going to provide a lot of benefit to your to yourself by putting on that muscle and it will make you healthier and that's why you tell people you people do get very hung up on that number you know it's just like you know the scale and and that's why a lot of the the older I think more um successful and and uh just just better uh Facebook groups on on Carnivore like zeroing in on health or zero carb health and there are a number of them but these these are two that I um that I I was quite active in you know uh years ago that was one thing they always said it was like do not talk about don't don't just don't even own a scale just like just focus on your health and and how you're doing how your your dress sizes are your your shirt size pants all the sorts of things and you know just don't focus on that it's just not it's not you know worthy marker you because you doesn't matter what your weight is you know and people that's the thing we say we want to lose weight no you don't you want to lose fat what you want that's true you know and so you know so your weight may not change my my weight didn't change for I don't know months it did at first I lost like 23 pounds in like first like two weeks and and then it stayed the same because I was I was was replacing the fat I was losing with the muscle I was gaining and so I was looking in the mirror I was I was getting much more muscular much more lean I could see it visibly week after week and I took like monthly uh update photos it was just a dramatic different difference every month and I stayed the exact same weight exact same weight it was 243 pounds on the nose there wasn't a single more I worried myself every day there wasn't a single day that it was 242 or 244 it was 243 on the nose every single day and which is crazy but that's what it was and it was like that for months and months and months and months so I actually like sort of messed up my knee and I couldn't you know squat and run and and things like that and actually lost muscle mass on my legs and that's when I started losing weight I did not want to lose weight I wanted to lose fat and gain muscle yeah and so that's what people should should focus on uh is is just your health think about your health think about how you look think about how you feel the most important thing is how you feel most important thing is how how well you are and getting and getting your body working properly and not being sick and not needing to be reliant on so many medications that again did not exist you know all that long ago and so how could this be something that we actually need in our life uh if we're if we're living normal life and we're living naturally it really shouldn't you know some people will I mean they're just things that happen you know like you get thyroid damaged for some reason or surgery or whatever and you you just have to replace that that's just something you have to do um but barring that you know we should really shouldn't be riing on medication uh the way that we are anyway and um and so that's what people should be focusing on is actual Health as opposed to weight and even if you're doing weight it's Fat Loss that's what you want that's the real marker and that's what you should focus on yeah yeah absolutely cool all right great well thank you so much uh seren it was been absolute pleasure it's always a great talking to you and it was very nice of you to come on and share your story so thank you for that thank you so much for having me I appreciate itally thanks Serena