My Multiple Sclerosis IMPROVED With A Carnivore Diet! | Pennie Roehr Part 1

welcome to the plant-free MD podcast with Dr Anthony chaffy where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically all right hello everyone thank you for joining me for another episode of the plant-free MD podcast I'm your host Dr Anthony chaffy and today I have a very special guest Miss Miss Penny roor who has um had a very very interesting story about her recovery from multiple sclerosis Ms using a carnivore diet Penny thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story thank you for having to me yeah well you're very welcome and um we've been talking you know quite a bit off off camera uh you have an absolutely amazing story and and Recovery I mean multiple sclerosis is something that is a progressive disease just like so many of the other chronic diseases that we face now as a as a main stay of um you know Modern Health and society and it's thought to be that this is just going to progress it's only going to get worse maybe you have periods of static symptoms where it doesn't get a lot worse but it's not really getting better and then it starts getting worse or just continually gets worse it very very rarely gets better but if it does get better it's for a short time and then it gets worse again so your story in particular and something that we're seeing a growing body of people experiencing on a carnivore diet you're actually getting improvements as opposed to transient sort of improvements or stasis and then worse again so that's I think is very very important to talk about and so thank you very much uh for sharing that um can you can you tell us a bit about your experience with with Ms with multiple sclerosis when that came on and how that affected you how the treatment affected you and then what brought you to a carnivore diet and and what you what you saw with um with your health at that point okay so I was when I first had my a very first Ms symptom I was 17 it was 1996 I was a senior in high school I was very active and my first symptom was um numbing and tingling down my left side and I was 17 I just thought oh because I was active I said nothing to anybody you know I just went about it really impact me it was just uncomfortable and um a couple years later um in 98 when I was 19 I got optic neuritis in my right eye and I completely lost my eyesight in my right eye and um you know my mom took me to optometrist and that's the first time they had mentioned Ms and um you know it got better my site came back and we just kind of Let It Go and there's kind of a gray area between when I got the optis and why I had the um MRI back I had the MRI an O2 or3 I was diagnosed in 03 and I can't remember what brought me to having the MRI but then I had the MRI and um can you pause for a second sorry go so I had my MRI in 2002 2003 and it showed some lesions on my neck and brain and then um I got married in May of 03 and this two months afterwards they did the lumbar puncture and uh to rule out I think it is uh lupus they were with the lumbar puncture they were trying to Ru out lupus to um confirm that it was a mess okay but after my lumbar pcture they confirmed it was a mess I was 24 and honestly it really wasn't impacting me too much so I really didn't take my diagnosis very seriously I actually had a home nurse after my botched um Lumar puncture that left me bed ridden for a month I actually you know my husband and I were told by the nurse not to have kids that'll put you in a wheelchair and we had already planned out we were going to have a family I mean this is two months after we were 24 23 you know two months after our wedding we're like no we're going to have kids and um in 2005 well 2004 I got pregnant and had my daughter in 2005 and when I was pregnant like as soon as sorry I'm going to backtrack a little bit but um when you know my doctor the first thing he did was like any symptom that you have call me and I'll give you a medication anything and before long before I even knew it I was on a cocktail of medicines it you know for um you know uh muscle spasms headaches uh numbing and tingling you know all of that and like neuropathy pain so you know when I got pregnant obviously I went off all of those and all through my first pregnancy it's like my M my symptoms went dormant I didn't have a single symptom at all and it was like oh this is you know that was kind of nice but then after I had my daughter an' 05 that's when this symptoms started back up and then um until we were done having kids we didn't start any drug modifying therapy drugs until he knew we were done having kids and then in ' 09 my son came along and then after I gave birth to him they we started on kxen the what was that daily is that the daily yeah that's the daily injection and um I was still having relapses so you know I was on that for a few months and not showing any Improvement and relapses so he decided to switch me to reuth which was an injection what was it three times a week I think this was back in 2010 and then um uh we one night I had gotten my flu shot in 2010 and then one night it was like 10 o'clock at night I was laying in bed and all of a sudden my neck just started getting really hot and I couldn't breathe and I'm like what is going on and um I got out of bed and my kids were wanted to say my daughter was five and my son was probably about 20 months and I couldn't sleep that night and it was like constant it felt it was anxiety and um you know the next day I called the doctor I'm like what is going on you know I thought it was from the flu shot and you know it took him forever and finally we couldn't figure out what was going on and the doctor's like oh it's just all in your head I'm like yeah there's something going on in my head I keep having these panic attacks to where you know it's like the back of my neck would heat up and it's like me I'm very claustrophobic like get me out of wherever I'm at I need to get outside I need to get and that was the winter we had really bad ice storms and so I would just open the door and that would calm me down you know soon as my heart rate um lowered and it got cooled down the anxiety would you know go away but um it it was a good 3 or four months of going through this it's like why I've never had anxiety ever in my entire life like an actual uh pan full-blown panic attack I mean I've been anxious but I've never had an actual panic attack so I didn't understand what was going on and and then finally a representative from reiff had reached out to me to check to see how I was doing and I talked to this nurse and she's like yeah anxiety is a side effect because I guess has something to do with it being interferon I guess it um crosses the blood brain barrier that's correct I'm I don't so yeah I'm not too sure but it it it's an interferon and um she said yeah anxiety is a side effect and I'm like I'm done I stop the injections right there I'm like I am done and I called at my doctor I said I'm not taking this anymore they're like oh no you don't don't stop I'm like I'm done I was like I've got a 5-year-old and a 20-month-old I'm not going to be sitting here having a panic attack and um so I I stopped that and then they you know they were looking for other stuff to try me on and they wanted me to try galenia but when we went in there they were it was so dangerous you had to go like your first injection you had to be monitored because it was such a dangerous drug you know they had several I don't know dangerous but they had a lot of um people dying from it and my husband and I like my kids are so young then you know and we're like uh no we're not doing this and it took a little bit and then they decided to put put me on Tech federa so okay so I go on Tech federa that was probably 2011 2012 I'm thinking about 2011 I went on Tech federa the side effects were not the most Pleasant you know it has the flushing I would take it and probably within a half hour my skin would turn be red and I'm very pale so you would be able to tell and I would just feel like I had just gotten into a burning pit cuz my skin would be so beet red and it would just burn up but that would last probably 15 minutes to a half an hour just very unpleasant and I was on that you know for a few years and then in um 2017 my husband had lost his job so we had lost their insurance and I got tired you know we I spent a year of trying to find Charities to help me pay for this medicine that's $88,000 a month you know until he finally got a job that had benefits to help with you know the bulk of the cost and I just come 2018 I'm you know I was getting sick a lot in the winters I always had sinus infections or um bronchitis you know I was always getting sick but sinus infections were the main thing and um you know sorry that's okay um let me just second I might want to pause where am I at you you were saying that you were getting sick a lot you had this very expensive medication it was about $8,000 yeah us which is about $12,000 Australian it's massive massive cost I mean you're talking about that's like that's more if if you're talking about that you know $8,000 a month you know it's $96,000 a year that's far above the national average um for an annual income uh pre-tax and this would be post tax you're using post tax dollars um to use this so you're really using about $130,000 in pre-tax dollars to pay for that so it's a massive massive massive massive um burden and expense and probably one of the one of the chief reasons why no one's really looking for cure to Ms because the the treatment is just so darn lucrative why would they why would they shoot the Golden Goose you know um a golden eggs so um but yeah so you're talking about that and you're having a lot of side effects which makes sense you know these are these are immune suppress and they will suppress your immune system that is exactly what it says and you're going to get infections you're going to get uh more colds and flu and bacterial science infections and chest infections and these sorts of things you get higher cancer rates because the immune system helps fight off cancer as well and it's um you know is you know like you said it it does not you know these medications can help keep you know very serious disease like Ms at Bay or at least slow it down but it comes with its own host of of complications which is of what we were talking about there hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want a nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option so I like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25% off total all right thanks guys Tech federa was it was $88,000 a month and I just got to a point you know my kids 2010 that you know this would have been 2018 so my daughter would have been 13 my son you know four years younger and I just got to a point I'm like I'm I would rather um sorry shoot take your time okay so in 2018 I decided I'm done with the DMT meds because you know like with Cancers they they suppress your immune system I was always getting sick and I sorry your buddy's gonna have to do a lot of editing they're fine there's nothing there's no problem oh my gosh I am so sorry okay but I was always getting sick and um so I decided you know I would I do I don't I don't want cancer and that was the one of the main side of you know drawback to have an immune suppressant drug with cancer and all these other ailments that you know you've open your body up to when you suppress your immune system you're not you can't fight off anything and I'm like I'm done with these I would rather be in a wheelchair than to be six feet under or fighting off cancer with my kids so young so in July of 2018 against you know family wasn't too happy about it the doctor wasn't too happy about it but I'm like I'm done I'm done taking these and um and when I was done really I didn't I mean I still had attacks but I really didn't see much of a difference from when I went off the drug I supposed when I was on the drug so I didn't really see much difference of attack because I I would get two to five attacks a year so really I just I had had enough yeah go from here W and then so so you you did that for a period of time so 2018 and then and then you stayed off medication that whole time presumably have you gone on medication since then or is it just all hands off no I I I was done yeah done with the medications in 2018 and of course now I'm in a wheelchair but you know things are starting to look up since starting carnivore because I had tried I had tried going gluten-free you know I've done all kinds of research I tried the no gluten I tried you know I used to eat um nothing but salads and fruit smoothies you know and I did have an addiction to Sugar CU I don't I have a high metabolism I don't gain so one thing that I started back in 2010 was I would have a hard time taking all my medicines and getting them swallowed so I started eating ice cream before bed every night and it wasn't just ice cream it would be ice cream and chocolate syrup with cookies on there and sprinkle and anything else and that just became a normal habit for me because I was like I don't G weight so it's not going to affect me any but um yeah so then so what brought you to the carnivore diet then was that something that did you see other people with Ms in particular autoimmunity try that or did someone else introduce you to it or how how did you come across that in the first place because you know it's getting gaining more popularity now but obviously when you started this probably almost no one had heard about it well when I wasn't really having any results with you know like I'm I'm eating right I'm eating salads I'm eating lean meats I'm eating fruit smoothies you know besides for the ice cream before bed I was actually eating pretty good but it's like I'm still having attacks I'm still bloated I'm still constipated and it's like why why am I staying constipated and Bloated when I'm just eating salads and smoothies you know granted the ice cream doesn't help but I get so flusher it's like I'm still having it tag what is going on why is not working and then I came ac across Mela Peterson and her story I was like okay this is kind of interesting so in 2019 October of 2019 wait a minute this is 2024 so um in 2021 sorry October 2021 is when I decided all right I'll try Cur diet I tried it for a week my husband went and got me all the grass-fed beef you know it I didn't last very long I tried it I was like okay this is near the holidays there's so much sugar everywhere I I bailed out and then I decided you know we went through the holidays a crud I felt like crud so you know I had gotten a gift card to our local grocery store so I decided you know January 2nd is when I stopped all the crap and you know my husband went to the grocery store for me because he does all the shopping because I am disabled and so he does most of the Brun work is on him and so he went to store and he bought me all kinds of ribe eyes because we had this gift card and he they were on sale so he bought me a bunch of ribe eyes and that's when it started was um January 2nd of 2022 is when I started and I haven't I mean it's been a bumby road ever since then and definitely a roller coaster ride and but I would never go back I've learned a lot since in but um cuz I remember like the first I would say when they say carnivore flu K flu yeah I definitely got that and I had that for a while thank God for Courtney Luna who helped me through a lot of that you know I was still battling my sugar addiction like I would still sneak uh chocolate bar before bed I mean I did really good for the first few months and then my daughter was graduating in May of 2023 and it's like okay this Carnival flu has got to stop because I guess I couldn't now I look back and it's like I know I was just getting too much fat because I went all in on Carnivore and I mean I just increased my animal fat like all at once and I'm and I look back now it's like okay that's what I did wrong but I'm one of those It's All or Nothing type of people if I'm going to do it I'm going to do it because I I can't gradually do it you know how people will just gradually ease into it I can't do because I'll never stick with it but anyways um when my daughter had to graduate in May and I'm like okay she's got Ward T night we had all kinds of stuff anybody has anybody a kid who's graduated knows you have so much going into graduation I'm like this has got to stop so I kind of slowed down I started add it in sneaking the candy bars and you know i' look at the ingredients and then you know I Courtney got on me about that and it kind of died off a little bit like the carnivore flu kind of died off a little bit and and I made it through the summer and I I made it through the summer and into the fall and I did pretty good with not you know I would have bots of chocolate Cravings milk chocolate was my main thing AB loved milk chocolate little Hershey bars or Hershey Kisses was my go-to or I would sneak um chocolate chips the um milk chocolate chips that would be my daughter would bake cookies I would sneak those but um going into the fall I was doing pretty good I did not have a single attack through 2022 which was amazing because I went from having one to five attacks a year to having zero yeah wow I had no attacks through 2022 and but then Here Comes winter and Christmas of 2022 and my husband and son and daughter they're they're not carnivore and my husband oh man they just had sugar everywhere you know around Christmas time the cookies the cakes the pie and I was sneaking them left and right I was like oh I'm carnivore but I was still sneaking you know the sweets and the candy bars and the milk chocolate stuff and I was kind of veering off of it but I still didn't have any vegetables or anything thing well come January of 2023 that came back and bit me because I started noticing my left side started getting numb and so did my right side and I was like uh oh this is not good and lo and behold I had an attack and it was a brutal one it completely paralyzed my left side it was pretty brutal and um I'm like okay I'm done no no more sugar I'm done with the sugar and ever since I had attack I haven't you know I think I'm kind of messing up my dates here but um let's see all through 2022 no attacks when did I okay let me go back this is almost the end of 2024 so it was 2023 I'm sorry okay is when I started the car it was one because I'll be two years January 2nd of 2025 so I'm off a year sorry that's okay um but I went all through 2023 no attacks and then now this year I had the major attack in January and I was like okay no more but I haven't had any since and I saw my neurologist back in um July now mind you my neurologist just likes he he's a pill Pusher we'll just put it that way but um my small area I have lack of options I have to Dy well my husband drives me 90 minutes just to get to this neurologist that is an MS an MS specialist and on the MS board so you know that's who he went to but and I've been seeing him for 21 years but but he's never tried to help me get to the root cause he always wanted to put manal Band-Aids on all my symptoms not you know let's find out what's going on but I went to him in July of this year and I was telling him about it like last year he wasn't too thrilled about the carnivore diet and then I told him about it this year and he he admitted he's like yeah I think you've put it in remission and all the I've been having really weird symptoms where like constant itch and the it's like it it's really it's hard to describe but it's like burning you know in certain sorry certain parts of my body it's just like oh Mia um it would be burning just burning like on fire and I'm like what what is going on and he's like those are symptoms of your nerves healing I'm like okay I it's very unpleasant but you know we'll see what happens from here and so that's where we're at for now yeah but one thing I did notice like going back to anxiety that you know I would try to introduce like honey and fruit back into my d diet anytime I introduced sugar back into my diet I would have an anxiety attack within an hour and it's was like okay yeah I can't do the fruit I can't do the honey I can't do any sugar so I don't wonder you know 2010's when I started the Ice Cream binge constantly and then that's when I had my first panic attack and I'm you know did the sugar so I'm thinking the sugar is probably what brought on the anxiety hey everyone really happy to announce a new sponsor for the show and for everybody down in Australia Stockman Stakes who are delivering highquality grass-fed and finished pasture raised beef and other meats flash frozen and vacuum sealed tood door something that I've been enjoying a lot of myself recently as well they also have a great range of specialty items such as high fat keto mints and carnivore beef and organs mints with liver kidneys and beef heart as well so use code chaffy today for free order of beef mints or another specialty gift along with your order at Stockman stakes. and I'll see you over there thanks guys well that um that makes sense actually it's interesting I was just speaking uh with u my patreon group today I one of the mentioned um a lady that I had on my podcast previously she actually had Ms and she put it into remission with the carnivore as well she had some mental health issues and some psychoses that she had um put in termission uh with the carnivore diet and then she started going into the sort of the honey sort of side of things oh Honey's carnivore it's fine and started using that and actually her her symptoms started coming back on and actually her her psychosis started coming back on and and and then she started slipping off further and further and then okay no I really have to you know come back and and just stay in in a much more narrow Focus um but that's you know especially with mental health that's something that being in in ketosis is is very important for having that that the healthy functioning mitochondria seem to be extremely important for mental health and neurological Health in general for Ms in particular it's obviously you need all these different nutrients that only exist in meat all the different fat essential fatty acids and fat soluble vitamins that that only exists in meat and then B12 which is not fat soluble but it only exists in meat from a dietary source and without that uh you actually cannot remin your nerves and Ms is a dementing disease your your body is getting your the myelination around your nerves uh the nerve fibers which are the axons from the nerve uh bodies they get wrapped up in this this mation and that's predominantly uh cholesterol first of all cholesterol and saturated fat but it requires an abundance of B12 in order to remate that and if you get below in American numbers it would be around 540 pams per milliliter which is probably 2third of the range of what's considered normal in the US because everybody's deficient and so they you look at the average it's just like oh that's the that's the the reference range you want to be in because that's what everybody else is in well everybody else is sick and malnourished so you don't want to compare yourself to that below 540 picograms per milliliter or five or 400 uh Pam moles per liter in other other countries it's uh it has been found that you can actually get demyelination of your ax so even even if you don't have MS you don't have any other sort of things causing damage because your your body can't because you're constantly turning over uh the myelination around your nerves that if you don't have enough B12 you can't keep turning this over so they're only breaking down but they're not rebuilding back up and you actually get demalation and Oxford University showed study in 2008 um where I believe it was below 330 PES per per liter which would probably be around 4450 pams per Mill in US numbers people that have below that after then they did serial MRIs every year that after five years their brain shrank by 5% volume so and that and that and a normal reference r and go down to like 130 150 as we're saying yeah that's completely normal as we're saying well you know only 15% of people are B12 deficient no no I'd say about 95% of people are actually B12 deficient it's just it's hidden because every since everybody's B12 deficient now no one's B12 deficient so it's only like 15 20% of people that are even below that that are just dramatically dangerously deficient to the point that I mean this is going to be this is going to cost them their life if they don't address this soon um so it you know from Ms you know this is something that I um would be curious about in your case I always always ask my patients that have MS or you know I always check in my patients is there B12 and and making sure that it's up at a at a much higher level actually in American numbers 1100 to 1600 is where I want that to be PS per milliliter and 800 to 12200 for PES per liter in the rest of the rest of the world is where I try get my patients especially if you have MS because you you just need you need that optimal amount of B12 to get that regrowth in nerves and and functionality is that something that you looked into did you check your your B12 actually yeah I had my laps done what was it probably a couple months ago actually and I got the results and I'm actually quite very healthy the only thing I was ficient in was fate okay which that's where I'm thinking you know we have a a line of family members who have neurological problems so you know I'm kind of investigating that a little bit more so I got a a folate supplement not was it not what's not folic acid yeah I got the actual folate where my doctor wanted me to go on folic and I'm like because luckily I had done some research that's just the synthetic form of folate correct it's it's a chemical structure even you know so so it's more than that it's not just synthetic it's just not the same chemical compound so is slightly different work differently in your body um but liver is a really good um source of that you know 44% of women have mty HFR G mutation which means that they they don't methylate um you know things like folate well these s they don't they're not good methylators so that you'll just you'll just need more you know it's not that you can't do um you know to get this from just your diet doesn't mean you have to have supplements it just means you need more nutrient uh dense sources of that and typically uh that that would be liver you know bit of you know a couple ounces three days a week generally everybody I've seen that has had um you know low or borderline low folate levels even if they weren't symptomatic you know I mean there's some people that do feel um not that great with um if they have low folate so many people I've seen that have low folate and actually feel great they feel better than they ever had before um and their B12 is excellent and that's another thing too is that there are people that argue that you actually don't need folate if you have a sufficient amount of B12 because they basically do the same thing um I'm a bit agnostic to that I I'd rather just see everything in good ranges and um you know and and you get that with with uh a liver you know so like you know 2 three ounces of liver 3 days a week I've I've never seen anybody deficient on folate uh even with MTHFR if they were to do that and um don't even need supplements but you know however you get there you know it's um I think it's I'll pass on the liver though yeah well that's the thing some people just don't just don't like it I found that it's not that bad you know it's as long as the less you cook it the better it tastes that's the trick with liver and you know I we used to read Adele Davis who's a nutritionist from U early 1900s very very um impactful nutritionist and she and she was way ahead of her time she figured some things out without just from her own observation and and Keen Insight that you know it took it took 80 90 years of of scientific Endeavor and testing and all these sorts of things to to then verify but I mean she figured this out a 100 years ago some of the things it's just like well we we sort of know the body doesn't work quite like that anymore but all these other things she she just figured out um very very very um astutely and uh that was one of the things she always talked about was that that Raw Liver was one of the most important nutrients it was just such a good nutrient Source especially for people that were having issues uh pregnant women especially nursing women and then and then new babies just eating their first thing raw liver and specifically raw liver and that always horrified me thinking about raw liver but then I I tried some it tastes a thousand times better than cooked liver it is just night and day different I mean I I dislike cooked liver I enjoy Raw Liver it's weird it's very weird but um but I do you know you know Pat it dry so it's oh it's slimy okay fine you know it's um the texture is a bit weird but you know you you Pat it dry you take a bite it actually tastes good or you know put a bit of salt on it put it on a drying rack in the refrigerator like I do for my steaks after a couple days it's almost like gummy like a Gummy Bear sort of texture it's great it's like a meat gummy bear like absolutely that's the only kind of gummy bear I want and so um I found that that um that can be a better way but you know either way I mean a couple ounces it's not much it's like it's literally like one bite you know one bite three days a week probably get your head around that you know and um and uh and then you find that it's actually not all that bad U but you can also grind it up in ground beef you get your butcher to just to make a make a blend put like 15% liver in there and you just have you know couple of those patties few days a week actually it's fine you don't need much a little bit goes a very long way and will definitely cover you for for B12 and folate certainly I if I could find it I know my B12 levels are actually quite High good like all my levels were really good yeah because of the reference ranges being averages if if you're if you're not high on your B12 you're probably low it's uh there's very few reference ranges actually get up into that what I would consider an optimal reference range for B12 yeah um some do but but most don't and so if you're if if it comes back and it's high I'm usually pretty happy with that as long as it's not like you know unrecordable you know high like oh this is is actually over our scales you know then U then it's usually usually actually where you want to be as opposed to too high okay yeah mine is 1556 perfect yeah that's where M what surprised me was actually my vitamin D because I am so pale and I have MS and anybody with Ms knows what heat does to us we're like we become cooked pasta a cooked spaghetti noodle and literally in the heat you know you just you can't function it's like everything just shuts off and you're just completely limp so I'm kind of shocked at my vitamin D levels were actually pretty high because I'm not out in the Sun or the heat and also another thing that happened in 2010 I had an attack and after that attack I no longer was sweating and I could no longer regulate my body temperature oh wow and so I'm like do they did they attack the hypothalamus then you know but I haven't been able to regulate body temperature since 2010 so I really have to be careful with being outside like I'll get overheated very quickly and then in the winter I shiver it's like it's hard for me to get cooled down or warmed back up I'm hoping maybe that'll actually heal hope yeah I was kind of surprised with my vamin D levels well but there there's a ton of vitamin D3 in animal fat so if you're getting good quality animal fat grassfed butter grass-fed beef fat you know wild CAU fish those sorts of things they're going to have a ton of of vitamin D and you were saying you're just just lion diet at this point right just just be red meat and water is that right um ex right now cand ice cream and chocolate no I don't do the ice cream or chocolate I don't even I actually we had when went out for dinner and I actually my son and husband stopped by Dairy Queen and got blizzards and while my husband was getting situated in the car I actually I was like all right I'm gonna try his blizzard real quick I snuck a bite and I'm just like it actually kind of tasted nasty you know I've tried myself I've tested myself you know I've stolen some chocolate chips out of the pantry and I'm like this just doesn't taste the same anymore at all and you know a year ago I would have started binging on that because my addiction was so bad to chocolate and sugars and ice cream but now it's like I don't want any of it my taste buds have changed so much and it's weird because before I would want to have ketchup mustard Ranch you know all those sauces barbecue I needed them for my food you know my salads you know drenched them and oils and but now it's just like you know I can go pull my husband will grill for me on the weekends a bunch of burgers and I also like we get from I would say local Brer but it's 20 minute drive we're in a very small area but um beef dogs is what I call them they're beef hot dogs so he get he gets me some of those those are like a treat for me don't pull them out of the fridge and I just eat them cold and my son's looking at me like don't you want to heat that up I'm like no I'm good you know my taste buds have changed so much it's crazy but right now I I love my sour cream I get some Daisy sour cream because it only has um cultured cream in it so I I do like you know to get pork r and Dion sour cream and I seem to be doing okay with those so I do add some Dairy I haven't got rid of my cheeses my cheeses are my uh yeah they I'm they're my weak spot I like my cheeses so and every now and then you know like I'll get into a kick like uh for a while I liked you know shaved ham MH which you got to be careful because it's cured but I tried it out and it didn't do anything to me so I'm like okay I like this I put some cheese you know have a ham and hot ham and cheese just eat a plain no bread you know and have some sour cream on the side with pork grinds and I'm good to go and you know it's like I noticed my husband and son they love variety you know I see other people they love variety and I'm like everybody asked me aren't you bored I'm like no because now I look at Food it's like most people they celebrate with food you know food is celebratory and it's like now I look at food as fuel you know I don't look at it as oh I've got to you know we're going to be celebrating Christmas I've got to stuff myself full of food it's like no you know I went to my mom's for Christmas last year and she like don't you want more to eat I'm like no I'm I had some ham I'm like no I'm good you know so that that's you know when once you look at Food differently then it becomes a lot easier MH yeah at least it has for me oh definitely yeah when you and you understand understand that you don't have to keep eating variety all these different sorts of things I think the the main thing with variety is that people are eating a deficient diet that they're the the the paity of nutrients and the things that they are eating and so they have to change up what they're eating because they have to get these other other vitamins and minerals