PART 2 | Why Vegans Have Smaller Brains & And How Cows Can Help The Environment!

[Music] on the farming and Planet side of things which is I think is a very very interesting topic we have quite a lot of anti- meat and cow Ric going on right now that this is is absolutely going to destroy the planet I think that Ireland was talking about destroying over half the herd in Ireland um I don't know if they've actually are carrying that out but that was something that was going on for a while um there's the new B uh supplements say my goodness this this natural process of methane production from fermentation that happens all across the world right now with all the rotting vegetation to much larger extent than in cows obviously this is the worst thing that ever happened um even though it's been happening for billions of years so um about that what what would be your response to these accusations and recriminations about the livestock industry and its impact on the environment um yeah the so the subtitle of our book is uh how cows reverse climate change because they they actually uh do they don't they don't contribute to it ruminants don't contribute to it um all the medor emphasis uh and even in the UN um assessments of livestock emissions they they just emphasize uh emissions and they don't mention that it's a it's actually um a cycle it's the biogenic carbon cycle um and so they're literally just talking about the emissions part of the methane production as you say we've had ruminants on this planet for 50 million years far longer than we've been around and in similar numbers to the numbers we have today wild and and domesticated um and we've got lots and lots of species of ruminants lots of wild ruminants that nobody everybody just ignores uh it only seems to be um domesticated livestock that cause uh methane and and uh climate change but in fact what we've got is a cycle uh the cow produces um methane but that uh methane has come from the carbohydrate that the cow ate from the grass uh the carbon is converted into methane it's a byproduct of the ruminant uh digestive system that the bugs make in the ruman um and the methane is produced uh but it is broken down within a a fairly quick time around about 10 years back to carbon dioxide and that carbon dioxide is then taken out of the air again by the plants which the animal then eats uh so we've just got a cycle there's no additional methane being added to the atmosphere there's no additional carbon dioxide being added to the atmosphere and in fact um it's um uh climate um negative carbon negative because there are other processes associated with that biogenic carbon cycle in which carbon is drawn down sequestered from the atmos atmospheric carbon dioxide into the soil beneath the grassland and it's really only beneath grassland you don't get the same uh thing happening in arable cropland in fact um any agriculturalist will tell you that you do uh s samples of grassland and uh arable land um the the arable land is uh always lower in carbon content than the grassland because grassland sequesters uh carbon from the atmosphere so the the grass plants are secreting sugars um from their Roots into the soil there there's fungal melium that helps to um get that Sugar from the plant roots into to the soil and that um contributes to the buildup of organic matter in the soil below grassland um if you're um one of the thing one of the problems is that the media never um never talks about the harms that Crop Production arable Crop Production causes uh and if we're looking at climate change they're far more uh emissions from crop production and they're more harmful carbon dioxide emiss ions uh that carbon dioxide isn't broken down rapidly in the way that methane from animals is um and as you mentioned there's a lot of other sources of methane so uh the increase in wet rice production globally lots of fugitive emissions from fossil fuel leakage um there's a paper in 2016 showing that um the the um fugitive emissions probably 60% higher than we than we thought um and in Crop Production uh arable Crop Production you've got arable plants which are um annual plants so they have to be you have to prepare a seed bed every year you have to plant the plants every year usually in the spring sometimes in the Autumn um and the um every time that you plow the land or even with with less destructive tillage systems uh you're exposing the soil to the atmosphere and the organic matter in the soil which is carbon rich is breaking down when it's exposed to the air and producing lots of emissions of carbon dioxide and there's there's a lot of data that shows that about a third of the carbon um or the carbon dioxide that's been added to the Atmosphere by human activity has come from our soil because of um crop tillage uh main mainly from crop tillage some other sources but that's the main thing whereas with grassland grassland is a perennial plant you can grow it indefinitely without needing to plow it especially on regenerative systems um so uh the the carbon is always building up the surface of the soil is always protected by the grass the grass plants are much more dense than in an arable crop there's lots of exposed soil between the plants in an arable crop and in arable crops um you're sewing in the spring harvesting in the late summer autumn and then the rest of the year the land is be um with our Farmers these days we are always um advising them if they're growing arble crops to put in a cover crop so that the land isn't bare for for a lot of the time so that helps to reduce the emissions and the also to helps reduce uh the erosion of the soil by rain and wind and so on um but it doesn't lead you don't get sequestration of carbon in in those arable crops uh the other thing is that the the tillage and the agrochemicals that are used are um uh destroying the fungi in the soil so you haven't got that aspect going and uh so but these things are never talked about in the media we we hear incessantly about uh the harms of livestock farming and they are only ever talking about intensive livestock farming there's there's no Nuance no understanding that livestock farming doesn't have to be ex uh intensive um most of the beef cattle in the world are reared at pasture um and beef and lamb in Britain and most parts of the world um it's the lowest input food production system the lowest environmental impact and it has a lot of other benefits in terms terms of your providing habitat um those animals if you manage them well can live alongside wildlife and encourage Wildlife whereas arable production just um removes the habitat uh and the other thing that people don't make the connection with and the the media never make the connection is um we you know most people understand that pesticides are are bad and they also we hear the news all the time about the collapse of insect populations and earthworm populations and yet the media uh and the environmental um uh Lobby just never make the connection that that is due to crop production not livestock production or at least not pasture C and CH the media's the media's ignorance on diet is only matched by their ignorance on farming um uh you know you as Ali says if there's a story about meat or methane they'll make a direct link between methane and livestock when there's a story about agrochemicals it's farming in general not whereas actually never majority of agrochemicals are poured onto arable 99% you know the UK government data shows 99% of pesticide use in this country and we have the best pesticide data records in the world uh 99% of those pesticides uh are used on arable land arable crop land less than 1% used on uh grassland and in livestock um production we just don't use pesticides um most of the time uh there's hardly any we did a calculation um according it depends which source you read online the one I went with was encyclopedia Botanica it said in in the kind of the you know the latitudes of the UK there should be around 2,400 insects per square meter of land that's an insect every two cmers um they're probably quite tiny you probably can't see them you see the big ones can't see little ones uh if you multiply that by the number of hectares of land in the UK that are under Crop Production that's 100 trillion insects and we're spraying that how often with insecticides um as I as I say most of the arable land in uh in Britain and in most developing countries is is sprayed you know less than 2% of our land arable land in this country uh is is organic uh the rest is sprayed U most wheat crots will get six or seven sprays per season with 20 toxic uh elements to that and a cocktail of different um sprays which are but you know over the years they've become more and more toxic more and more effective at killing the pests um but also much more effective at killing everything else and these cocktails are um also uh you know they're combining herbicides as well so we're obliterating any of the plants that might provide habitat um for insects and other things and this just leads to a complete ecosystem um breakdown you know as Rachel Carson in the 1960s showed us in in Silent Spring uh we talk about this in the book you know Silent Spring was published in the 1960s um identified the harms caused by DDT and other pesticides and that that was cascading right up through the ecosystem uh insects birds mammals everything um we just haven't taken that message on board and those p pesticides are for Crop Production um yeah and the other element of that is that that people don't understand because so few people have any connection with farming these days um is that we have uh delink our arable farming from our livestock farming in the last century so historically until the last century uh until the coming of oil and agrochemicals and big machinery um crops were always grown in rotations that had grass in them as well so you'd have a couple of years of wheat or barley and then you'd have um one or two or maybe longer um of grassland grazed by cattle or sheep so you've got the manure going in and the reason for this is because um it's long been understood by anybody that's ever been involved in farming that crops deplete the soil of its of its new nutrients and its carbon content you need grass and livestock to put that back in the form of manure and the sequestration from the grass um so we have in the last particularly since the LA the Second World War uh coming of big machinery and agrochemicals um we thought that we could just get rid of livestock it's quite inconvenient to have to move cattle and sheep around if you're a you know you you just want a big drive around in big combine har Harvesters and tractors and so on and you can have nice Square fields and so on um big fields um so we've removed the livestock so I worked from for 12 years in the east of England which is our main crop growing area and there were no Livestock in the main in the crop growing areas uh Lincolnshire and so on just continuous crops of of uh wheat barley sugar beet oil seed rate all those are crops and you become those that kind of farming is completely dependent on agrochemicals so the the nutrition for the crop has to be provided by artificial nitrogen and and phosphorus and which has a huge carbon footprint when it's when it's manufactured huge carbon footprint and we're these am I right Ali these some of these external inputs don't get included when the UN calculate the the carbon footprint of Al no with with the un uh assessment you know they've done a series of livestock emissions assessments Global livestock emissions assessments there is no comparative assessment of the crop sector we have to eat uh either all crops or or or animals or a mixture um so you have to assess those um as well and when any assessments that have been done with the livestock assessments that the UN the food and agriculture organiz ation has done um they they do it from Farm to Fork so every single uh emission is counted whether it's for transport or for fertilizer going in if they you know if there is and and then there's an assumption that it's mainly intensive livestock as well um but um and the methane and so on but with crop farming um the the fuel that's used for the crop production so there an awful lot of diesel and so on going into Crop Production not into livestock production uh that fuel is counted as part of the energy sector um not as part of the crop sector the transport of those crops to Market is counted as part of the energy sector and so on or the transport sector so those things it's Creative Accounting and we're not um comparing light with light you know so these are the problems of that but we we did a calculation I don't think it's in the book we did it later um going back to the insectoid and agrochemicals so I I said that figure earlier about 2,400 insects per square meter of UK land an insect every 2 cm um it takes about a square meter of wheat to grow enough wheat to grow to Mill enough flour to make one loaf of bread um so that's 2,4 insects have been sprayed on that area of land to produce a loaf of bread if you get about 20 24 slices in a loaf it's a 100 dead insects per slice of bread if you think you're being vegan for environmental reasons ethical animal you know saving animal reasons you're not every time you have a loaf of bread or any other kind of plant-based food animals have died to produce that um so it's shocking that the what we're saying actually is that a meat-based diet is more ethical and human fewer animals are killed to support um a pure meat diet as opposed to a pure plant-based diet for instance what people just don't understand is that you know they think that uh if they're just eating uh a plate a dinner plate that's just full of vegetables and make you know um grains bread whatever that they're not killing any animals that's completely um you know unrealistic uh so in this country alone we kill three million um wood pigeons a year a shot um mainly to protect arable crops that's just one species of bird um all the birds that are protected by law in this country are allowed to be shot to protect arable crops um and also people don't take uh for instance um uh the the focus in terms of sort of Animal Welfare animal rights uh there's a big issue big controversy in this country about the killing of badgers or um to protect cattle uh from TB um whatever you think about the science of that um nobody talks about the fact that we kill uh every Autumn around about 350,000 deer in this country because deer have no uh predator in this country um and they cause massive crop damage if the numbers get too high they also cause damage to Woodlands and to Habitat for Nightingales and other things so um so we call them every every year but uh and there are there are lots of animals that we are killing in huge numbers to protect crops rabbits hairs Birds deer lots of things and of course the insects the earthworms you know there are plenty of Trials from reliable institutes like The rothamstead Institute um that show the loss of insect life and and it's much wider than insects um in some sites the earthworm population is being reduced by at least 50% down to 100% you know so in those cases you're destroying the soil because earthworms create soil um and we're getting massive levels of soil erosion um here and in you know in the arable areas of this country uh so there's a there's there's an idea that you can have a vegan diet and that the world could go vegan or plant-based um and we could just Farm in a plant-based way without any livestock that would be catastroph profit because we need those livestock because organic farming regenerative farming requires livestock otherwise you're completely dependent on pesticides and um artificial fertilizers and lots lots of oil so that's why you know conclusion of the book is that as well as you the sapiens diet of of pasture fed livestock is is the best way of farming uh the least destructive infection not just destructive it it rebuilds soil rebuilds the structure of the soil the soil is healthier um it's the diet plan the environment ecosystems are much healthier so it's good for the planet it's good for the environment and IT Supplies nutritious food that becomes the sapiens diet or whatever kind of you know animal-based diet you're following uh which we as as we've already discussed earlier in the program is is the best for human health so it's winwin and it helps grow vegan brains which is good another thing just to uh to add is that you know we in this country in Britain we import 2third of our fruit and vegetables into this country yeah um and you know the the environmental costs of those food imports are huge um one one of the you know the f Foods currently are um almonds most of our almonds come from California um they're killing 50 billion bees a year uh to produce almonds in in California with the pesticides and Cocktails and so on a huge loss of bees and so on um likewise with avocados we import a lot of avocados the water footprint of those avocados is absolutely huge in some parts of Chile uh the the local community are being restricted to 50 lers of water per person per day which is about a third of what we use in Britain per person um but meanwhile the avocado plantations are using more than that amount per tree those areas so and there's a my that's why we say embargo the avocado the you can't walk past a cafe or coffee shop in the United Kingdom without seeing someone eating smashed avocados on toast with chil Flakes and a squeeze of lime and they think they're being healthy and environmentally friendly absolutely not that that avocado's flown halfway around the world it's already as Ali said diverted Water Resources in the places where it's grown and it's flown halfway around the world I mean how is that a good way to eat yeah most of our food waste is coming from um plant Foods yeah yeah we didn't say that at the beginning the other big thing I've noticed following the diet is I hardly throw any food away yeah no more soggy lettuce or cucumbers in fridge no more moldy apples in the fruit bowl no more uh moldy s sour dough in the bread bin um it's a really efficient way of eating there's there's one other myth that we should we should just talk about a little bit is um there there's an idea that um animals are taking up land that could be used to grow more crops and feed more people that's complete Nutter nonsense um because uh 2third of the world's agricultural land is actually marginal land and in Britain more than half of our land is marginal land which means it it's not suitable for growing crops um it it's either too steep or the soil's too poor one reason or another why you can't grow crops on it so um we all over the world what we do is we rear Livestock on it you know pastoral herder communities we've got 1.3 billion pastoral uh herders um around the the world and I worked with many of them in um Mongolia um a few years ago that you know Mongolia is an example it's a country that could not support human life if it were not for ruminant livestock or gra or grazing livestock such as Horses as well um they just couldn't exist as a community and they um traditionally always ate a diet very similar to the sapiens diet that we're recommending although with a lot of dairy produce um so um it's it's just crazy if we were to convert that marginal land to crop growing we would do massive damage in terms of soil damage in particular uh you know and releasing carbon into the at carbon yeah yeah yeah yeah and there are there are other agendas at foot on that you know so in Mongolia the the land is H um there are a lot of minerals in that oh goodness hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnival bar is is a great option so I like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25% off total all right thanks guys well no it must be bad for the environment the strip mines would would fix that real easily get rid of all those animals um yeah yeah it's it's funny when you see when you start adding these things up I remember coming across uh someone who was uh you know talking about avocados for instance and you know it's not like it's it's monocropping where you're tearing up the soil and killing all the you know the the Gophers and gr schools and SNS you know all the time but it's it's just there they trees growing year after year but there are a lot of ground squirrels and other sorts of rodents that are trying to eat your avocados you have to poison them and kill them and for for a certain you know area to be successful as an avocado Farm I think it's something like 30 40 hectares or something like that is like a minimum and for that size of a of a farm you're you're you're killing tens of thousands of these rodents and birds that are trying to eat your crop and uh there was a study out of University of New South Wales 2011 that said that or showed that to grow one kg of uh plant-based protein you necessar neily had to kill 25 times the number of sentient animals not including insects then that study perfect Yeah in our in our chapter that's called wheat is murder yeah yeah well that's it I've I've heard the argument from the vegan side that well you're you're you know having that animal killed in order to eat it you know we're just these animals are just dying you know it's just sort of happen stance it's just like hitting a deer in the road it doesn't count it's a it's like it's a gimme it's like a tax re you know it's it's a tax loophole or something like that and and of course no you responsible for it if you're growing practices armed animals in the environment then of course you're responsible for that you can't say that we're responsible for the death of an animal because we've eaten that animal you're responsible for those those animals because you're trying to eat the plants and you had to kill you necessarily had to kill those animals to grow those crops I think something like 700 million birds in America get poisoned uh due to um AG aggr farming and about 10 a tenth of those die about 70 million die it's hard to estimate and then all is getting the ground in the water and in the rivers and estuaries and things like that and there's um the from a insect point of view I heard a figure just in America that we kill one quadrillion insects a year and ex what what's that going to do I that's the base of the food chain I mean how many how many uh you know reptiles lizards and birds weren't able to exist as a result of that one quadrillion insects being being kill or eating them and poison getting poisoned themselves and then all the way up the food chains a massive massive environmental impact it is it is yeah yeah I'm glad you know this stuff yeah yeah well you sort of have to you run into you run into people that are making these arguments and I agree with you you mean this is this is something that I've looked at and I say that not only is this the best way for us to eat as human beings for our for our biological makeup but it it's the best for the environment it's the best for the animals if you look per calorie um per calorie the least deaths per calorie is uh Grass Grass finished bison and very close sesing is grass finished beef you know so I mean one bison is is going to last you two years as an individual of perfect nutrition and and it's you know and then or you can have your smashed avocado and kill 30,000 ground squirrels you know it's up to you you know but don't kid yourself and think that you know it doesn't count just because you know it's one step removed it's it's only one step removed it's not like it's it's it's well hidden um you know that that brings me to the other question you said that that that we're using up all this you know land that we could be growing crops on because of all these filthy animals or we're growing a lot of crops in order to feed the animals and we could just eat those ourselves um and then the extension of that is okay well well what if we agree that meat is the way to go both for our health and the health of the environment can we sustain enough animals to feed the 8 billion people it's it's a good question um but the the other question from that is can we sustain uh the the the what we're doing now growing crops and going to more crops um abely as I was saying we're producing animal foods from marginal land uh we wouldn't be producing anything from 2third of the world's agricultural land if if we just went to plant-based diet so and the other thing is that we can't sustain this level of environmental damage that um arable farming is is cusing if we want to continue growing um uh crops for those people that want to continue eating fruit and vegetables uh and so on um then what what we have to do is do it in a different way and put animals back into the crop rotations grass and animals back into those rotations I mean you've heard the um it's probably about 10 years old now you know the the pessimist saying you know there's 60 harvests left if we carry on this way propop farming yeah I me that destroying our soil more like 50 now so yeah so excuse me if you think you we're worrying about can we feed the world with livestock well you you ain't going to feed the world much longer with crops the way we're going and plus um as we were saying about food waste um the the amount of land that is wasted 1.4 billion hectares of the the world's land is wasted in producing waste food every year and three times the volume of Lake Superior of water every year is being wasted to grow and it's mainly crop waste that ends up in your wastebin yeah if we have that crop waste we would be able to feed uh the world in terms of numbers of course we know that feeding people is far more than just the volumes of food that you produce um but um so yeah it's it's um if we were to convert uh more of our land to grass and we should one of the things that we are clear about is we are not in favor of intensive livestock production because that is harmful um so grain fed um confined livestock pigs poultry are mainly grain-fed and con confined um intensive Dairy production intensive grain-fed beef production uh these are all harmful one of the main reasons that they're harmful is because of the harms caused by the grain production and the harms caused by the soy that is needed to provide extra protein for particularly for pigs and poultry whereas grazing livock cattle and sheep uh if you rear them on pasture they don't need any extra protein um yes you're more extensive but we've got to consider the environmental benefits and uh Find A Way Forward of doing this the other thing that um people never seem to realize is that a lot of the crops that we feed to livestock are actually crop wastes and um byproducts that we can't eat so crops produce a huge amount of waste products like straw rice holes um in the east of England we were feeding a lot of um waste vegetables so although it was an arable area tens of thousands of sheep would come in in the Autumn to graze on the Rica waste and this kind of thing all that stuff would just be lying on the land or have to be plowed in producing lots of more emissions and so on so you've you've got to look at the whole picture and uh and not just think about oh uh cows belch out methane that's bad we haven't seen it you know we have thought about your question a lot and we we don't know and and we haven't seen anyone attempt a serious calculation of how much of the world could you feed if you if you veered much more towards um past your fed livestock I have asked a few people in in the know if if we converted all prop land to pasture land um for grazing livestock one friend suggested that it would be possible but I I don't know for sure yeah it's something we we need to look at more but the the fact is that we can't go on the way we are with these crops um the sustainable food trust in this country produced a report uh a couple of years ago called feeding Britain from the from the ground up um which was a very good report and they um they looked at this question to to some extent um and their recommendations that were that we um should be cutting the amount of cereals grains that we're we're growing cutting um drastically cutting oil seed production and sugar beet production we grow a lot of most of our sugar in this country comes from sugar beet growing um that we could cut a lot of that um not only to reduce grain feeding of livestock um and that means uh converting more more to beef and lamb produ pasture red beef and lamb and away from pork and poultry um uh and reducing the intensivity of dairy farming because dairy cows can be reared at pasture with a lot less um grain feeding a lot less um artificial inputs uh just as beef and lamb can be so we could do those things um and we would say that we could go a step further not only um reducing the amount of grains that you're feeding to because the grains that you're feeding to livestock but also uh for the benefit of all our health reducing the amount of grains that we're growing to feed to humans and the and definitely eliminating oil seeds uh and and um okay we all like a little sugar here and there but yeah it's interesting the sustainable food trust they suggested this rebalancing of of farming in the UK to try and make us more sustainable but they said two other things would have to happen at the same time otherwise you know we still wouldn't be anything like self-sufficient number one was um Wast less yeah so all the way from the field to your fridge waste less food and number two eat less uh less calories because otherwise the the sums don't add up you're not going to eat less if you're craving carbohydrates all the time time um another benefit that we maybe I'm not sure if you said it already with the sapiens night is on you find yourself less hungry yeah feel Fuller for longer on animal-based Foods on on meat Foods if you're not spiking that insulin you then don't get the insulin crashes you don't feel desperate for mid- morning snack midaf afternoon snack late evening snack um so we got to eat less and one of the things you know when I speak to friends and that about what I eat and they assume that I'm eating great plate loads of steak all the time you know three times a day and snacks in between that sort of thing of course we not um you know I I eat usually twice a day sometimes just once U and I'm I'm sure you know this is familiar to you Anthony um because you don't have that hunger and also we're not eating large amounts of just lean meat on on our diet moderate protein level high fat in this country it's criminal and and globally as well um one of the things that has happened in our agriculture over the last 40 years you know in my working life is that we have completely changed our cattle herd for beef production cattle um in this country away from native breeds of British native breeds like the Herford yeah uh and so on um and changed over to European Continental breeds like the cheret and the Limousin and the main driver for that was because they are Leena and it's all based on the diet heart hypothesis they also grow faster but they need more grains to do that um they're less um they're less suited to our kind of pasture really um and what happens that you know when animals go uh to to slaughter to produce a beef carcass um is because of this um this idea about fat being bad for us we the we have a classification system a carcass classification system for the animal and if the animal um is more than a certain level of fat on it you know back fat and so on uh the the farmer is penalized so um and often also they are trimming off huge amount of fat from every carcass about 10% of the fat on um 10% of the carcass weight is being trimmed off as fat it's either going into uh pet food or Industrial Products when we should be eating it it's brain food it's brain and a lot of the offal of course we don't uh we don't eat anymore you know a lot of the organ Meats we guess no longer eat you know it's very wasteful it's become a habit hasn't it of people who estimate the the value of of you know of meat that they only count the protein yeah it's in the UN we don't F the the UN assessments um only talk in terms of um and you know methane or um emissions per kilo of protein um and say per kilo of nutrient yes yeah um so they they actually end up in those assessments saying that we should move from what livestock production we do have move from extensive I.E grazing livestock to intensive pigs and poultry white meat that's just crazy and the only reason is because they only think about the protein content and chickens obviously in particular are much leaner than cattle and sheep um they because they have they don't see any value in fat and they just see it as um and they assume there's no vitamin nutritional content either and so it's it's yeah completely insane yeah and and again it it goes against um that that kind of policy um is anti- pastoralist Society um you know it's it's another excuse for removing people from their land yeah hey everyone really happy to announce a new sponsor for the show and for everybody down in Australia Stockman Stakes who are delivering deling high quality grass-fed and finished pasture raised beef and other meats flash frozen and vacuum sealed to your door something that I've been enjoying a lot of myself recently as well they also have a great range of specialty items such as high fat keto mints and carnivore beef and organs mints with liver kidneys and beef heart as well so use code chaffy today for free order of beef mints or another specialty gift along with your order at Stockman steaks.com and I'll see you over there thanks guys have have you guys um come across Dr Peter ballet yes yeah really really interesting guy um and some some of the things he he mentioned to me make me think that we we really can't afford not to switch to meat to feed the ab billion people out there simply because of how amazing these ruminant animals and grazing animals are for the environment and and the fact is that what he said you know including the oceans and seas that only 4% of the earth's surface is aable land and that competes with cities you know every you know Greenwich Village that used to be Greenwich farm and so these are these are all you know going to be competed for for places to live whereas about 25% of the earth's surface is either range land or Forest land both of which can have uh animals run on them and you don't have to tear them up you don't have to you know knock down the Amazon forest or anything like that to do that you can run this through um you know just just as is and you actually make the environment better you make the soil better you make make everything better and you make the land more fertile to grow crops if you want to have a mixed attack at this and like you say in the historical way of having this this sort of crop rotation having animals come it goes back to the Bible I mean the the Old Testament even says you know every seven years you have to leave your field alone let animals come on it and then you can go back to it so going back to that you could still grow plants if you wanted to you don't have to feed them to your livestock but you you wouldn't even have to and and because of that you could you can actually improve the land that was one thing that Alan Savory has been doing for what 40 years now he's been reversing deserts with large grazing animals and so whereas the the Agriculture and and the and the things that we're doing because we don't have enough animals are not able to eat down the old dead grasses we're spearing desertification the farming tactics a mono farming um crop tactics in the early 1900s sparked the uh dust bow era in America where the we something like 25 feet deep in top soil at one point in in the middle of America and then and then it was a dust bowl it completely wiped out all of the top soil that wasn't from animals that we got rid of all yeah we got rid of the Bison who were who made made all that top soil and then we started yeah we started farming and cropping and and we destroyed this the soil and and we recognize that at the time okay well this is this is part of the practice and we we changed those practices but as Peter said we even now with the best techniques we have we're still losing 27.5 billion tons of top soil each year which is an area the size of Kentucky and comparable to England so this is a massive area that we're losing every single year and it takes it can take 500 years to grow a centimeter of top soil so that that's a Vanishing resource I mean forget petrochemicals like that will run out and so you know we we really need to be on top of that and so for those reasons I think that that we have to go to meet I don't think there's other another option with 50 growing Cycles left unless you intervene and start making the land more healthy and Rich then you might extend that yeah and what um one of the things here is that there's an absolute craze on planting trees you know every every corporate is is you know providing trees to plant everywhere and that um that may be appropriate on arable land yeah we could plant more trees on arable land it's not appropriate on Grassland because Temperate Grassland stores more carbon than temperate forest does um and it and it stores it more safely because most of the carbons in the in the trees above ground in in a forest whereas with grassland the the carbon is underground and it's protected from wildfires and so on so uh it's it's insane to um to think about uh planting trees on um mainly on with that's happening it's a policy of the Welsh government at the moment that Welsh Farmers have to uh plant plant up 10% of their land uh with trees um why why not tell the East anglian Farmers to plant the trees on over there because we've got grassland in Wales you know yeah double again yeah yeah yeah very good so what is a Sapien diet what should humans be eating for both our own health and the health of the planet we should be eating meat from regeneratively farmed livestock comprising of animal fat meat and aful that's the healthiest diet for people and Planet so we have a new food pyramid we threw the old one away it um yeah the base of it is now um animal fat animal fat but it's not as if that's you know 70% of your dinner plate is covered in in fat it's you know fatty cuts of meat and so on so again it's the opposite of what we're used to being told forget lean meat if if you're going to choose a meat choose a fatty one um it's not huge on protein our new pyramid so it's not too to 20% to 20% and then we do allow at the top an occasional optional optional optional 10% FR vegetables um for us you know carbohydrates the reason you know yes they're gorgeous when you eat them of course and they're more but they shouldn't be a staple the eat well uh food plate describes them you know base every meal around 30% or more of starchy carbs and we we completely reject that for us carbs should be a treat a very occasional treat if it's Christmas don't worry about it if it's your birthday if you're on holiday don't worry but the majority of the year uh carbs are a treat not a steak and so our new pyramid is fat meat aul and the occasion optional fuit and V yeah very good and and I've found you know for myself I've sort of you know gravitated to this a from a evolutionary standpoint I studied botan biology cancer biology saw the different ways that that plants protect themselves from a chemical nature eliminated those felt better than I've ever felt in my entire life realized that I've been doing that for 5 years in my early 20s when I was playing professional rugby um during and after my undergraduate degree and I realized wait hold on because I I just I studied this and I had a cancer biology Professor that actually was just really really strongly uh hammering home the idea that the plants have these toxins and that they were actually quite carcinogenic and had dozens if not over a hundred known carcinogens and he expressed us that he did not eat salads or vegetables and would not let his children eat vegetables because in his words plants are trying to kill you and so like why are you eating these things and so I said right no more of that and I just stopped on you know and just that was my my only my only litness test was like is there a plant in that no thank you and so I ended up just eating eggs and meat for the next five years never felt better in my life every few months I thought to myself you know do I need a multivitamin or need a banana or something and I remember thinking to myself well I feel good my gums aren't bleeding so just ride this out and see see how it goes and of course never never had any problems only had improvements slipped off of this actually when I was in England because um some of the meat I was trying to get there had had some crumbs on it and I was like well you know is it is that toast makes the poison maybe it's not that big of a deal and so I convinced myself that eating this you a few days a week you know crumbed sort of chicken that it was just it was just the easy it was um I could just buy racks of this at sainsbury and and just not have to worry about it and just see eat that and chicken and eggs and it did it made a big difference I didn't put the two together but at 25 I felt like a superhero and 25 and a half I did not and I chocked it up to age I guess that's it that's the time you just start nose diving and start dying and I just you know didn't didn't um figure it out until many years later when I realized that sort of what I was doing and that's sort of our biological design and things started to click and uh that's when I started looking into this but when when I started going away from that a I was just like well that has there's toxins in there no thank you and I you know come across you know um Dr Robert lustig's work on fructose and and how harmful that was all the information that came out subsequently especially after 2015 about how we got cholesterol completely wrong and saturated fat as well and so I I I went away from that and I felt like a 22-year-old again you know 38 years old I went back and started playing professional rugby it felt amazing and um when I dabbled in with some of those things and just sort of tested okay well what does this do to me maybe have a bite or have some seasonings on it or a cup of coffee I felt Dreadful and it and it persisted for sometimes days case of a cup of coffee I was sore for two days and I was no thank you I don't need that in my life and so I think that that's that's a a great approach I mean no one has to do it like me I do this because I see how that makes me feel and you know having a bunch of carbs I actually some like a bit of rice and beans got stuck onto some meat I was eating at a restaurant it felt like someone was stabbing me in the spine for 4 days it was so painful and I thought to myself wait a minute I haven't had back pain this entire time I've always have back pain you know as an athlete and then I thought for those five years my early 20s I didn't have any back pain there was a there's a gap between there's 15 to 20 and then you know 25 onwards I just had horrible back pain and there just this one little nice sweet spot between 20 25 I didn't have back pain now at 38 I didn't have back pain again I like what the hell's going on there so so do you stick to the diet 100% oh yeah no I haven't I haven't cheated once no yeah no thank you yeah and no no teal coffee just no no it well I go on the principle that that these things are from plants and plants have toxins and um beans are seeds seeds are plants baby and it's typically you know typically things protect their babies more than anything so you commonly find the highest con concentration of toxins in the seeds nuts beans legumes Etc most legumes will kill you if you don't cook them uh properly so you know four red kidney beans sorry five red kidney beans um as Pro the W has has put people in the hospital uh with acute lectin poisoning and and the W is no fan of the of the carnivore diet let me tell you so um they have an entire web page it's very interesting called natural toxins in the food we eat in in your food and it talks about all the different sorts of classifications and and classes of toxins in plants and in mushrooms and algae there isn't a single mention of anything in found in meat not a single exactly exactly there's nothing it's it's astonishing that um you know the media portray it as if you know you eat eat some red meat you're going to get you're going to get struck down the next day with B cancer yeah and yet I don't know if it's the same where you are but you know in the UK there were 14 foods that have to be identified on a restaurant menu yeah and there there's fish on there there's Dairy there's gluten and of course there's nuts and seeds but there's no nothing about red meat so the stuff that could kill I know it's I know it's an extreme acute reaction to these Foods very often but the stuff that's going to make you uncomfortable give you a bad stomach whe it's lactose or gluten or whether it's going to give you a bad you know response uh is all plant foods and yet this goes under the radar in the media I think for myself I'm something sorry Dave no yeah but why why is it this they they they don't pick up on this these are meant to be our natural foods but these are the ones warned about on every single product that you buy in a supermarket or buy at a restaurant they have to have These Warnings yeah and we live with it why I I I found um that um what I recognized was that um I'd lived with uh symptoms all my life that I thought were just what everybody lived with and when I cut out the the plant Foods um I realized that you know you didn't have to live with those things like brain fog and um bloating these kind of things you know um all all sorts of different things that I thought were just um just normal or um or as you say getting getting a bit older and that sort of thing you know um yeah yeah and we and we chalk this up you as Physicians you know we see this and is just just the normal state of humanity probably very similar to ancient Rome when they had lead pipes and didn't realize this was causing a problem everybody was having the same conditions and so we thought well that's just part of getting older your hair is supposed to bleed and fall out it's like no I don't think that's normal um and they figured it out you know there's lead poisoning I think we're in our our uh lead pipe era that we're getting poisoned and and harmed by by something in our environment I would say it's the food largely but the other environmental toxins and pesticides Etc but we are being damaged and we just don't recognize what it is and so we keep exposing ourselves and when you stop doing that all of a sudden these diseases they simply go away and I've applied that to my patient population I've seen diseases go away that are are right now considered irreversible we're getting ready to publish a case series on multiple sclerosis patients who have not only completely reversed their symptoms some people were crippled in bed could not get out or in wheelchairs and um you know considering you know assisted suicide and things like that and now not only are they completely normal functioning by and large their MRIs have shown regret some uh almost near complete regression over the course of years but some only 8 months and a 50% regression in lesions which is is really not really described as happening in the literature this is supposed to be a progressive issue and yet it it doesn't have to be all of a sudden diabetes that just goes away I mean that that's been shown in in large scale um in Interventional trials now from Vera health and elsewhere and and so when you you apply that to your patient population all of a sudden these other diseases that come as a consequence of your hyperinsulinemia and hypoglycemia seem to go away as well kidney function improves Vision I've had people who are needing lower and lower prescriptions on their glasses I mean I I wasn't expecting that one that was you know that was that was definitely a surprise autoimmunity again those those just go away from whatever the cause you just start eating beef and water it goes away and this was in The Lure think my earrings improved yeah very great right you know and and this this was in the literature in the 1800s we knew this Dr JH Salsbury For Whom the Salsbury stake was named I thought it was like Salsbury England or something like that like a place name but Dr JH Salsbury who was a New York doctor in the 1800s I don't know if you came across him but he did a 30-year research project into optimal nutrition for human beings he um was a was a uh you know an army doctor during the Civil War did a lot of different uh research and then did experimental trials okay well what about this what about this what about this 30 years he studied this and he found that people this long before processed food and even seed oils and he found that people that were just eating more plants more grains more vegetables more fruit were getting diseases other people simply weren't were more susceptible to tuberculosis obviously a major killer in the 1800s and he lived with the Native Americans who were largely eating bison and he actually found that you know by their own records they were living to be 110 115 sometimes 120 or so as as healthy vibrant adult which sounds very farfetched but at the same time as I was taught in genetics class in my undergraduate degree you know 24 years ago we're actually genetically designed to live 120 years on average based on the length of our tillum mirrors and so what that means is if you just stay out of your own way and don't mess up you should make it to 120 without doing anything special you don't have to do hit training and you know buy this you know Resveratrol or anything like that just be and you should make it to 120 in good health because the only reason that you're you're decaying slowly um by the time you you age to 75 or 80 and die is is because you you're damaging yourself the only reason you're dying 40 50 years early from the 120 year Benchmark is because you've been sick for another 40 years before that and you're just decaying to the point that your body just can't handle it anymore so living to 120 you're not it's not this constant Decay where you're just s turning to dust in a nursing home for 40 years you're a healthy vibrant active adult because you're free of disease you're free of Decay you're free of degeneration and that's why you're making it to 120 and so Salsbury found that putting people back on that pure red meat and water diet he said that beef was number one lamb was a distance second they also had older cows than they didn't just have like yearlings two yearlings as well so it may have taken older animals May indeed have more nutrient density that's something I'm I'm sort of considering and but either way he found that putting them on a pure red meat and water diet he could reverse rheumatoid arthritis reverse Crohn reverse ulcer of colitis reverse gout help people recover from tuberculosis I mean this is 100 years before we had at least 100 years before we had any treatments for rheumatory arthritis Crohn's gout all these other sorts of things and he was reversing these things completely through diet and he wrote a book called the relation of alienation and disease so the relation a ship between the food we eat and the diseases we get and it argues the exact same thing that I argue now is that the diseases that we we treat as a Mainstay of modern medicine are not diseases per se they're toxicities and Mal Nutrition a toxic buildup of a species inappropriate diet and a lack of species specific nutrition namely too many plants and strange chemicals that don't belong in our body and we can't really contend with very well we don't have the biology for it and not enough animal-based nutrition which we are sorely lacking yeah yeah I'd like to see one day in supermarkets you know at the moment you know the healthy shelf is reduced fat this face this and of course you know waste of time i' I'd like to see one day when it's it's high fat but it's it's the low carb shelf or low carb shelf if you want to lose weight don't worry about the fat you're eating worry about the carbs you're eating and if you want to get the right nutrition yeah um the sup's got it again something else completely the wrong way around yeah um sad yeah it is you know something something that you mentioned earlier and you know maybe we I'll leave you you with this um thought you can share your thoughts on this with all this information readily available I found it you know it just you know something sparked my interest and I just started going on to you know Pub Med and and just searching around okay well what is the information what do we know what can we prove what what do we need to find out I was able to find a lot of this information then having these conversations with people such as yourself i' I've you know learned more and more and more so this this information is readily available and there are other books similar making similar arguments that are out there so why is it do you think that this is having such a difficult time getting basic truths and facts and reality out to the populace because the average person reads what's on what's in the newspapers or social media and they just don't see it and if you're not looking for it you're not going to find it you have to be looking to to come across all this information and that's part of the reason why we've chosen the the book title that we have we want to get noticed we want the average person to see it one of the things we did um a couple of days ago actually was we we put the book or parts of the book into one of these AI engines and said please produce a summary and it comes back with a summary and then it said you could also produce a podcast discussion between senters oh amazing if we press the button five minutes later you've got this Amic American style you know man and woman going backwards and forwards having a conversation about the book and it's interesting that the AI program said it wasn't going to it only used the sources we gave it but clearly there was a bit a bit of a an agenda going on somewhere because it started talking about uh the cultural and it actually was quite a good discussion I'm Amazed uh about you know the cultural importance of food the soci the social aspects of food and the way it becomes identified with people so if you criticize or even try to offer friendly advice to someone you shouldn't be vegan it's not good for your health it's not good for the planet they they will become defensive and take it as a personal insult so there is this natural human barrier I you know I've invested so much in eny what I thought was a good choice for me someone is now telling me different I'm not going to listen I'm going to clam up um but also just just the cultural identity you know you know the way we do enjoy eating out socializing cooking and that's become so much about reinforcing the established but wrong diet you know we we have the canipes we have the the pizza we have the the alcohol we have everything it's enjoyable and to be told actually no you shouldn't be doing that most of the time or indeed any of the time it's really difficult hurdle to get over and it's considered to be creative isn't it to to to uh to bake and um to cook um lots of different sources and uh all these things it's considered to be uh creative and artistic and we've got end um TV programs like bake off and Master Chef and so on but Bake Off is just about baking cakes um and very very popular and so on um and uh I think people you know we've just got very poor Science Education as well um to be honest um and there's this belief that we're omnivores and uh and we should have this balanced So-Cal balanced diet and so on um there's also the you know the business of life and everybody working and needing quick food and so on um and and because I think the other thing is you know we've talked about agriculture only having been around for about 10,000 years but um in terms of our history and the transmission of History orally and and in writing that's only happened in the last few thousand years during which we've been based on agriculture and Grains um so most people just have no idea that we were eating um meat and almost nothing but meat before yeah yeah we we've been asked this question before why doesn't the message why hasn't it landed more broadly um so we hope the book might make a difference I think until the media wake up Outlets like the BBC for instance that they're totally deaf to this kind of stuff um it puzzles me sometimes um until this becomes a routine conversation that is much more balanced and much more recognized about the goodness of meat and how good animal farming can be um we're yeah we're we're struggling to you know convince people how do you convince a wider majority of people even our friends you can have this conversation and they say I I understand you I listen I understand everything you've just said and we say are you going to change your diet uhuh and it's just yeah difficult Yeah Yeah well yeah some have changed I I I agree it's not totally fruitless yeah well well we'll see you in the diabetes Clinic you know uh yeah um yeah yeah the um yeah something that i' I've sort of been playing around with as well is that is that you know it's like you say you know we we know what we have access to not everybody's willing to dig dig in but also you know we don't know what we don't know and you know I I didn't look into this the way I did until I was I was 38 and through Medical School undergrad you know all these different sorts of things um practicing medicine all the all these things and um and it it never really occurred to me that we were looking at this wrong until all of a sudden I had that that click and so if we're really not getting exposed to it it was it was just an off chance thought that I had this and everything just sort of clicked into place and so you know people are being spoonfed their information even even in University I mean we we take we get a degree and it's sort of this cookie cutter sort of you need for a biology degree in most countries America has a bit more leeway and I'm sure and and many colleges do but a lot of them just like for Degree in General biology molecular body you have to take this class and then this class and then this class and then this class and then this class and so you have the exact same exposure the exact same information and so you're going to all make the exact same insights which are none and so we're not looking at this from from different angles but one thing that I came across recently uh in the discussion was that uh Food and Drug companies are the major sponsors of media outlets and as such they have a lot of sway on what stories get out there and if stories come coming out or some papers coming out or God forbid The Who uh does something useful like classify aspartame as a as a carcinogen all hell breaks loose and all of these stories hey you need to you need to back us up and and get a bunch of doctors on here saying no no no aspartame's safe and they don't know what they're talking about and all these sorts of things and um it really does it it really does dictate what uh stories get out to us more Sinister and very very much concerning is that um I was speaking to uh Professor um from from various colleges and and actually saw I'll be interviewing a professor from MIT Professor Stephanie seni who's been doing quite a lot of work on glyphosate for over a decade and she was saying that it's not just the media Outlets that are that are that whose main advertisers and Main funders are the Food and Drug companies um and the major major uh Industries it's scientific journals too and so she's finding it very difficult to publish any of her papers you know she's she's a 40-year tenured professor at MIT you know I mean there no one on earth should be have in that condition no one should be denying any papers this this person comes out with she's she's a major major academic figure in America and the world and yet her her papers are are not seeing the light of day because they they're getting so much pressure from uh their their major sponsors who are who would be hurt by the findings that she has and so we're not seeing that then contrast that with specifically nutrition um this was a this was a figure by uh a whistleblower Cali means who' been working in the Food and Drug companies as a as an executive level sort of person and he has sort of been saying a lot of the the really really underhanded practices that they've been carrying out for a long time and he said that um the whole processed food industry you know the different companies Coca-Cola Pepsi Nestle Etc Kelloggs they spend 11 times the amount of money on nutritional research than the NIH and so the vast majority of scientific literature is being funded by you know exactly the wrong people who profit from getting it wrong um I looked up uh Coca-Cola just in 2015 was the most recent I could find spent $19 million on nutritional research just in 2015 right so and just Coca-Cola and so you know it's a it's a problem you know even um what was it Dr Richard Horton from he was the editor of the editor-in chief of the Lancet and then um editor-in-chief of New England Journal medicine for like 15 years I can't I can't her name I think it anglet or something like that but they both came out publicly in recent years saying that there is rampant corruption in the medical L journals even the Lancet even the New England Journal of Medicine jamama Etc and he said that you know you have these studies that are that are very fraudulently done with uh retro retroactive um uh end points and you know modeled in ways that get the outcomes that they want and U you know funded with these different sorts of conflicts Etc and he said that basically a good portion of the medical literature it could just be completely fraudulent and false he said at least half and um the editor-in-chief of the New England Journal um echoed that and said that it was it was a dark day in science and you see look at all these different angles of attack that they have they've really really um captured the you know the scientific body and and so all the everything that we is coming out there we're not able to see any any differing views the majority of the studies out there or false or fraudulent and they're being paid for by the industries who profit from this being wrong and and we're not able to see any alternate alternate Viewpoint because the only Outlet is social media and podcasts and books and those can be easily easily suppressed I've been shadowban mult multiple times are going these sort of es and flows and and um and some some videos will just not see the lot of day they will just be like nope no one's seen that one and it's very strange because they they should have been getting a lot more traction than they do so yeah I think it's um it's very good work that you are all doing to try to get this message out there because it's so important I think we're you know I think it's a David and Goliath uh situation here but um I think the truth will out and having more of these conversations and more of these books out for people to see I think will will help to win in the end so thank you yeah that's that's thank you that's our hope as well thank you very much very welcome well thank you all very much when can people um order the book and where can they find it and how can people find you and follow you and support your work so hopefully the book will be available in some form in a few days great certainly by the 1 of January you should be able to buy it on most platforms through Amazon Etc um we'll send you a link as soon as we have it available we've got a website that we're just building we're just gonna we need to load we got a thousand references we need to to load up and put on this website but we can share that with you and will be tweeting very soon as well oh very good well great well um I'll put um all these links up on on the description when we publish this video I'll try to get this out before your book comes out or maybe sure very shortly after and and and hopefully get the the timing right with that and then people can look down the description and find the your website and uh hopefully a link uh to your book when it becomes available that' be great thank you you're very welcome talking to you yeah AB absolutely lovely yeah well thank you all very much it's been an absolute pleasure thank you for taking so much time I I realized that we've actually um gone uh for about two and a half hours so that's that's great obviously a lot of information to go through and I really enjoyed that so thank you all very much for that you bye bye bye bye and thank you all very much for joining really appreciate you coming on please do share this with someone who you think would enjoy this and like uh leave a comment and uh let us know what you think thank you very much and we'll see you next time hey guys thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say say if you like it then please like And subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcast and if you're on YouTube then please hit that little bell and subscribe and that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out which should be every week if not more and if you could share this with your friends that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing thanks again guys