Regenerative Health with Dr Sabrina Solt!

welcome to the plant-free md podcast with dr anthony chafee where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at carnivore bar i don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option so i like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because i want the carnivore market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products that will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code anthony to get 10 off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25 off total all right thanks guys hello everyone this is dr anthony chaffee i'm here with a special guest dr sabrina salt who is a naturopathic doctor who has recently come across a carnivore diet keto diet and incorporating diet nutrition into her practice getting people better dr sult thanks so much for joining us thank you dr shapi i'm so happy to be here yeah um well can you tell us a little bit about you your background and your your current practice and and what you what you do yeah so i'm a naturopathic medical doctor i'm currently located in scottsdale arizona uh born and raised in canada i've been here since about 2011 and yeah i have been uh practicing in my field for um gosh almost almost 10 years or so and recently like you suggested i have been introduced to the carnivore diet and uh you know i was originally actually i heard about the stuff on podcast before and i honestly so brushed it under the rug initially because the brainwashing runs deep when you come from the naturopathic medical side right a lot of vegetables are pushed i'm thinking to myself when i'm learning about this how could this possibly true it'd be true it goes against everything that i was ever taught it goes against the literal the paradigm that i exist in as an nd um and so again kind of left it alone and then fast forward you know months later my husband actually he had a few things that occurred in his life that kind of sparked just the search for something else and it was actually a lot of your videos that he came across initially that really jumped him down this path so you know if you if people you know might know my husband or you know he's hardcore he's pretty extreme like if he's gonna do something like he's gonna do it and he's gonna do it well he's gonna do it straight so your approach which was meat salt water was like the most extreme person could do great so he dove right in and i'm like oh my gosh you have to be insane i thought it was great i well you know now i'm thinking it's great but initially i thought that it was completely insane just bonkers and i'm like you're gonna make yourself sick you're gonna feel terrible and then he didn't and then his eyes were the whitest that i had ever seen them his skin actually was no longer dry it was like this dewy beautiful skin and i'm like okay there has to be something here so i started i call this my descent into carnivore because i had to really take these baby steps to allow myself to unlearn and this was important for me because i have a history of eating disorders so to be able to do this in a way that wasn't going to bring up and trigger past things for me was super super important so first thing that i did was i cut out raw vegetables i cut out salads i used to eat a salad for lunch every single day it was i think about it now and i think like i was bonkers just completely insane um once i did that i dropped almost 10 pounds like nothing right i went from about 120 pounds which still wasn't heavy for my frame but went down to about 110 pounds and i could finally see i could never see this before the line between my lower abd my lower abs i had always had like that little pooch there right um even before kids and and i have two kids um this is post two children that i can i can see all this now which is insane to me uh so after that i was like okay there has to be something to this and then it just kind of spiraled from there and thank god you know i have zach supporting me through this and making mistakes all the time and making sure that i'm fed and i was able to get to the point where yeah i've gone full carnivore right i have not had any meaningful degree of like plants or anything like that and i don't even know how long but it did take me a minute to get here yeah yeah that's the funny thing is that um you know when you drop salads all of a sudden you lose weight and you get slimmer but it's like when that's the thing that everyone says it's like we got to eat salads to get skinny and uh you know and then there's like almost no calories in it but there are things in there that that you know disrupt your body's uh biomechanics on and how you function and process energy right and so it's funny because if i think about my practice the women that are coming to me for their hormones and weight loss issues and all of that good stuff it's always the middle aged women that are overweight that are eating a bunch of salads yeah it's like which what's the cause and effect here right and then they look at you like you have three heads when you say well stop eating vegetables like how are you a doctor you know well you know and it does it goes against everything that we we've said in the last you know 40 50 years and of what doctors say too i remember you know speaking to most people are are usually pretty receptive when i when i speak to them or they ask me about this sort of thing and i mentioned it to them uh almost 99 plus percent of people are mostly just interested and even if they think it's it's wildly uh out there they'll at least just ask questions that's very probing questions but they'll just ask questions about really well what about this and what about this and you know then you you talk to them about it and they become interested every now and then you'll have people just lose their minds and just be like oh you how can you even be you're not even a dog this is just crazy like and then you you know and then it's not a discussion then you just have to shut them down you know and um but uh it's you know i have no problem discussing or defending these things because it does go against everything so you know the burden of proof is on on me and and us now you know and so uh you know it's important for them to ask questions and and make sure that we have answers but uh yeah it is it is always funny when some people just look at you like how how is that possible exactly and the way that i like to at least initially frame the conversation with them too is if everything that you were doing was working you wouldn't be in my office so why not at least entertain the possibility of something new you know give me 90 days and if you don't see at least a trajectory towards the changes that you're looking for we can try something else you know and then i also have the conversation with them too that if what we if we are what we eat and what we eat determines our health and we're only as healthy as the things that we can absorb and your body is in an unhealthy state you've actually lost the privilege of eating whatever you want you know yeah and um you know and that's that's what i sort of tell people you know i i just say it's like yeah this goes against everything that we've been teaching for 40 years but everything we've been teaching for 40 years has gotten people fat and sick so obviously it's wrong you know and we need to we need to look at something else and that that seems to resonate with people like oh yeah you know what that's right and um you know that the recommendations aren't working so obviously maybe we need to look at the recommendations and uh i always like that you are what you eat thing too because i'm pretty sure i'm not made out of broccoli or cellulose and so you know and if it's if you want to break it down to something as simple as that you know we are meat you should eat meat pretty simple you know yes yeah yes and the saturated fat thing right our our nerves the everything that holds us together it's our like our brain right it's all those basic things and you make a funny comment about the cellulose and i this is this is a part that actually was almost like a red pill for me literal red almost literal red pill in the sense that every time we prescribe a supplement it's usually a veggie cap so how much are we taking maybe two steps forward one one and a half steps back or you don't say and then you have these certain influencers online that you know tell you they take 300 supplements a day or you know it's just like how much how much cellulose do you really how much that veggie cap do you really need and what is that doing in addition to things that you're taking so that was a moment for me where i'm like oh shoot we need to back this up and you know i will tell i will admit you know my patients will you know agree with this in the sense that i'm very much a minimalist when it comes to what i'm going to tell you to take and it might be things like minerals for example or electrolytes or maybe need to you know reset your circadian rhythm with some melatonin short term but i will usually try to do it outside of a pill method like liquids powders whatever um and again short-term use i'm all about maybe we do this strategically to get you to a point but the ultimate goal is that we don't have you dependent on anything right like i want to put myself out of business my goal is that you don't need me yeah i think that's a great approach and i i certainly share it you know i want i want people to be be healthy and not have i have a problem and come in and and uh it's funny sometimes like we'll say that we'll have a good rapport with it with a patient and uh and we'll say like all right it was lovely but i really hope i never see you again you know i'm like yes yeah and that's and that's that's the way it should be yeah i i find that um yeah everything's sort of changed in the last you know decade or two that like every capsule a pill they want they want to be able to pitch to the vegan market or vegetarian markets they go oh it's you know vegan friendly or you know uh you know um you know you can gel cap or veggie juice or something like that it's like can can we just get something with with gelatin can we just go back to gelatin and like i don't even know how to look that up you know there's there's no like market for it so you can't like look up you know you know animal based pills or anything like that if you want to like have something to to prescribe for people because you know sometimes like uh like you say you know if you want to prescribe something like you know short-term melatonin or or you know hormones or dhea or something like that you know the capsules that they have are always plant-based yeah exactly and you know the funny so the gelatin thing so it was obviously just fourth of july weekend and we went camping with the kids and you know as much as we are carnivore and we're trying to really do that we're not we don't really necessarily want to deprive them of like the childhood things of maybe having a marshmallow over a fire but do you know how hard i look to try to find real marshmallows that were made with gelatin instead of high fructose corn syrup they're basically non-existent i remember that being the thing when i was a kid and i'm like man am i gonna have to learn how to make real gelatin marshmallows so that my kids can have these moments just you know very periodically right but fourth of july seemed to be the time that would have been appropriate um and it just it was so hard it was very difficult to find but then of course the veggie caps for even things like organ capsules you know i i don't necessarily purport you know um prescribe those a lot but i know personally i will if i take maybe one or two every other day or so because i feel like they give me a boost of energy and i still have a baby that i'm nursing so some nights i don't sleep all the way through if i need a burst of energy they really kind of pick up the slack for me just from that little bit of loss of sleep yeah that that is funny like the that uh you know an organ meat gel cap will will not be gel it'll be like you know uh the veggie cap that's funny um so coming from from a naturopathic perspective obviously this is something that um is generally thought that you know the plants are the or the savior of humanity and they really push like a vegan or even vegetarian diet certainly and then obviously the the the pharmaceuticals pharmaceutical approach would be more in herbal uh remedies and and you know like instead of prescribing digitalis you know giving fox club right you know that is where we derive digitalis from what what are your views now that on plants have that has that changed since uh coming around to the carnivore sort of so in that in nd school we had a ton of education on herbal medicine i i joked that it was my potions class you know if you're a harry potter fan um but just you know because you take we actually did you know activities where we would go and gather plants and make our own tinctures and do our own you know it was pretty cool like we got to do a lot of hands-on stuff which was neat um you know if we ever in you know post-apocalyptic world there's that skill set right but either way it made me realize that you know you're going through all of these things and it's like hey this is the pharmacology of the constituent that's in it it's an alkaloid or whatever it is this is how it gets processed by the liver this is what the max dosing is before it's um you know poisonous to the body this is what some of the side effects can be this is you know the max that you would use in a kid this is the type that you have to dose by kilogram on and on and on and on through all of these different plant compounds like literally probably hundreds of them right and so you think to yourself some of them were even things like avena sativa which is oats right so i'm thinking okay oats something that people are eating every single day for breakfast has medicinal properties and when you're going through the naturopathic program you think oh my gosh this is so cool everything's got medicinal properties but is that actually a good thing can there be too much of a quote-unquote good thing is there too much of augmenting your physiology in a certain way and i think that this is where the privilege comes of being a provider is that yes we have the privilege of people trusting us enough for us to go ahead and augment their physiology to reach a certain goal but are we doing that ultimately intelligently or are we doing that in a way that could be potentially harmful knowing that our first oath is to first do no harm right yeah so my my stance on that has dramatically changed because now the understanding that becomes that every single plant in the plant kingdom has a medicinal property to it and they're not always for our best interests and it is it is slightly arrogant to think that they oh my gosh everything in this world is for our or you know for our best good it really isn't yeah no yeah i mean and that's what that's that's uh something that i think though often is like you know we're not in the garden of eden you know everything isn't just just just put here specifically for us to eat necessarily you know everything everything works in symbiosis at all levels but that doesn't mean that we're supposed to eat absolutely every plant uh that exists and uh you know as i've said a lot many times you know plants plants get to defend themselves just like other living organisms and you know that's one of their main main defenses is making these defense chemicals and poisons um and of course these can be used medicinally but what is a medicine medicine is just a poison that does more good than harm under certain circumstances but if you're not in those circumstances it's doing more harm than good and so you know you have people say like you know like garlic has you know antimicrobial effects and you know can you know antibiotic effects and so it's like okay great i mean do you have an infection though you know do you have pneumonia okay then why are you taking antibiotics like you wouldn't take augmentin if you didn't have a need for it you know that's that's gonna actually probably harm you um you know people talk about you know anti-vegf in mushrooms this is something that um dr fuhrman who came up with like the gomes diet um he you know obviously just pushes just a just a raw food vegan diet at this point and uh he does not look healthy and he and he talks about how great that is that he's not healthy he actually can't do push-ups and and is frail and weak all that that's a good thing you know because i'm not i'm not you know metabolically active and i'm not running my system down like no you're just dying is what you're doing and um you know and so you know when you're um [Music] you know when you're you're sort of looking at mushrooms you're going to have this anti-vegf property um you know say oh that that's good you know in fighting cancer and it's like great do you have cancer like then why are you taking chemo you know i mean yes i agree with that and i'm going to like even go a little bit further with that so like vegeta in my world was just the regenerative medicine world we love vegf because it means angiogenesis right it means you can get additional blood flow to an area that requires healing so when i'm doing something like maybe an amniotic allograft or even prp we'd love that there's vegf in there in meaningful amounts so that if i'm popping it into your shoulder we're going to get blood flow to that shoulder and we're going to get some healing right and then you know i'm not going to give you white willow bark to take down the inflammation or anything like that or aspirin right because we don't need to you know and it's it's just goes i feel like it just goes on and on and the it it just goes so deep yeah and that and that's exactly right you know i mean you know vegf is uh has real properties and purposes in your body and obviously you know cancer cells can can hijack those properties and you know create a lot of uh angiogenesis and just to feed the tumor cells but when you're not in in a cancer state you know then you're blocking the actual properties that are good you know that are normal and natural that your body is actually trying to use properly and so that that could cause harm and also you know it's also cherry picking obviously you know you're picking sort of this one thing but you know there are hundreds of thousands of other compounds in in mushrooms and other other you know plants and you know what do those do for you you know are they all 100 good for you or at least neutral so that this one benefit is is that gives them that positive uh generally the answer to that is no and so um so that's that's uh yeah that's interesting i think that um it'd be interesting to hear what what your colleagues and naturopathy have thought about uh your descent into carnivory yeah and you know it's it's so funny because a lot of i'm a weird nd as it is because i i always i never even really prescribed fish oils i never even really prescribed probiotics because there was all like i listen a lot to my gut and to instincts into like oh maybe this doesn't seem necessarily the right thing to do um and you know come to find out you know years later there was a good reason for me to not give things like fish oils good reason for me to not give things like probiotics um and that's not to say that i didn't ever use them there you know certain situations that you know might have but most nds that's those are the first two things that they give you no matter what and it get it there is also a lot of this reductionist thinking in there when you know in the sense that you were saying that oh we're going to just isolate the potential of this one molecule like vegf for example and maybe we're going to ignore all the other things right like are we ignoring the like fgf fibroblast growth factor or are we you know ignoring our matrix metalloproteinases like you cannot isolate one singular thing and think that this is just going to happen again in isolation and and this is where nds like try to say that they differentiate themselves from other doctors in the sense it's like oh we take a holistic whole person approach but we're still just going to give you some vitamin e to reduce your inflammation and it's like really like are you are we actually doing the right thing here or are we just like practicing what we call green allopathy which is you know giving somebody a supplement instead of a medication and still spending on the way and still treating you know at this at those surface levels versus actually trying to get them better and i think that is 100 where this diet comes in because like we are literally only as healthy as what we can absorb and that needs to be the things that we're already made out of yeah yeah um yeah i totally agree you know and obviously you know meat is extremely bioavailable that's been shown in every single study ever and you know people say oh it's really hard for your body to digest meat and it's like who told you that exactly yeah i mean look at him say oh we're much more adapted to breaking down plants i'm like you can't break down plants you cannot break down fiber no vertebrae animal has the enzymes necessary to break down fiber so you cannot break it down at all and so they say well your meat you it'll stack up you'll have like you know 10 pounds of meat just rotting in your in your colon for you know after like 10 years or something like that like how would that happen you know it's a tube it goes in one direction and you're telling people just to eat fiber because it doesn't break down and because it gets pushed out and so wouldn't wouldn't meat be doing that too so there's a there's a lot of things that just like just don't even pass the smell test with these things but because they've been repeated so many times it's just for some reason people buy them you know it's so illogical um it cracks me up so i have to share this moment that i had in my own head one time when i was still in my descent and still like a little bit of the brainwashing was left over and it was i was sitting there and i was like oh you know what i'm really not super hungry right now i could really go for something light and my body was like salad like we should definitely eat a light salad right now and i was like oh my gosh it was just the most insane thing to hear myself think that that oh this is a quote-unquote light meal and i'm like no way uh steak's gonna digest way better i'm gonna feel better after doing it and that now is like a light meal to me you know stick with some butter on it yeah absolutely and that's funny and um yeah i think that um it's it's easy to see once you're in it you know once you get you know start doing it and you see how much difference it is and you see how good you feel uh then then exactly like you say you know like the the you know the wool comes off your eyes and you start thinking like well actually you know tomahawk steak that is a light meal you know i'm just gonna just just have that and feel great and you know in the salad you know light as in you're always talking about light as in you're low fat because that was always the enemy was was fat but in fact that's your your best friend and and certainly if you're in the wild like i mean if you if you're not eating fat you're gonna die it was interesting i was uh reading uh some of the you know the sort of notes from like lewis and clark you know the original expedition explorers yeah yeah yeah going west very interesting and they also talk about how how they're eating obviously they're just hunting the whole time and they had other other rations but they were they were hunting most of the time and and and getting animal stores of of of food and they they talk about how the fat was so important and the guys who didn't even get enough fat they all died and so fat was fat was life-saving um and they they would give like the leaner bits and the organs would give those to their dogs and they would eat the fattiest bits like that's what that's what the humans ate and humans just you know for whatever reason we just need more fat than than even other carnivores like you know wolves or lions and so that that was it there's like the ones who weren't getting enough fat they all they all died off and so you know knowing that is um is quite important and empowering i think too because you know once you get on on this train and you know what's helping you and you feel so much better you know you actually have a direction and you know it's there's so many angles there's so many conversations so many people like you and i but you know many of us that are just saying the exact opposite of what we're saying and they make very compelling cases and they have you know big fancy letters after their name and they've written books and all these sorts of things and i i haven't even written a book so i mean who am i yeah either yeah exactly and so you know it's very very compelling stuff and it and it pulls people over and you know so what are they supposed to believe but you know if you if you are getting healthy and you are getting more healthy espec i really love talking to people like yourself who came from that plant-based side of things or even someone who's vegan for a long-term uh period and then they and then they go carnivore and it's just like you know night and day difference because you're going to have that change from a standard american diet from getting off the sugars and the processed foods and the polyunsaturated fatty acids and and just getting just a whole food diet even if it's that a vegetarian diet or vegan diet you you actually should see some improvements anyway but after a while it's going to catch up to you and then seeing someone who's doing that and doing it right and doing this this whole food vegan diet and then going carnivore and like changed my life you know even more than the than the first change that is is all i think that's very powerful uh evidence and then just people just doing that themselves and going like look i do this i get this result and that's all there is to it you know your study says that i shouldn't but i do right and you bring up such a good point and i think this is like a really good distinction to make is that you know doctors like other nds if they're you know going no doctor is out there trying to not help you right i think everybody's trying to do their best they might just have different information and you know at least in the the world of of nds naturopathic doctors is we get people that are coming to us sometimes usually at the start of their health journey and sometimes yes it is enough to get them results to just get them off the standard american diet right and that's why probably some of them think that oh veggies are the answer because we give these people vegetables and they get better well okay was it the vegetables or was it the lack of the puffas and the all the other crap that they're consuming the high fructose corn syrup etc etc but then you know why are they still your patients five or ten years later right i think you know it so is it now still the vegetables that could be causing the problems and is the next graduation of that towards the carnivore diet and should we should we really be considering maybe we just start people here and because honestly people get like once they get they get over just the shock factor of it and they're like wait a second i can eat a rib eye and i can have bacon and i can put butter on everything and you actually see a genuine excitement because we like these things we we're ingrained in these things and i made a joking somewhat joking instagram post not too long ago and it was about the idea that um vegetables are like stockholm syndrome you know as as just babies you know you hate them you detest them but like they're forced upon you you get to love your captors eventually you love them and you don't want to get rid of them and you're tied to them and it's stuck home syndrome with vegetables yeah i've made that exact same analogy and i i 100 think it is yeah i always say he's like yeah like you end up loving your captor and like you know it's like talking to someone you know like a woman in a battered shelter it's just like oh i like it when he hits me it's like no you don't stop that and you know and um you know people say oh no but i like i like broccoli oh actually i like salad like stop it yeah and you know i talked to some people you know early on um you know sort of talking about this and they're like and they sort of thought that it that you know what i was saying was you don't have to eat salads if you don't watch it and they're like well actually i like salads so it's not a big deal i'll just keep it i was like no it's not it's not that you don't hey you you don't have to it's that no you don't want to it causes harm and it's bad for you and uh and yeah exactly yeah no kids like vegetables i mean i maybe there's going to be one person out there that's going to actually you know my kid or whatever but i think it's going to be vanishingly rare you know kids are hardwired just mammals in general hardwired to pay attention and focus on what their parents are doing and emulate that because by definition they have you know they have they've succeeded in the game of life they've procreated and so whatever they did something that allowed them to get to the point of procreation so you're just hardwired okay i need to study on what this person does that's why you know like you know you know wolves and foxes and and cheetahs they study their mother and to see okay how is this how is this uh creature hunting what are they doing what are their habits and so they have very very similar uh skill sets you know and you know passed down from generation to generation um so you know we have that as well and so kids are going to be focused hyper focused on their parents and their parents are eating a bunch of vegetables they're trying to eat these vegetables they inherently trust them and so they're just kind of like okay and so it fights against everything to not listen to their parents but it's also fighting against everything to to eat this toxic substance when everything in their being is yelling at them don't eat this this is poison spit it out and so it's very hard for them and that's why so many kids just get so you know beside themselves when uh when eating vegetables being forced to eat vegetables i was certainly one of those kids i hated these things you know people talk about like oh well you know i like broccoli i don't think anyone likes broccoli i think they think they like broccoli because it's the least offensive vegetable out there but you know i would challenge people to think back to when they were kids and did they did they actually enjoy broccoli then because i certainly did not enjoy broccoli i hated broccoli well my question to these people you know it then becomes okay i'll take my diet which is animal meat and you take your diet which is vegetables and we go into nature let's see who will eat their food with no preparation yeah you know i could totally take i can take down a pretty raw steak like you know like moo might be coming from it right so could i probably take down a dinner way more readily than you could eat that broccoli or that wild lettuce or whatever that's growing and then who's going to thrive right who's going to actually be functional who's actually able to go and get more food after that and come out probably stronger and healthier and that's the difference like we like it is it is such a privilege to be alive right now because you can make those bad health choices and still live and then tell people about it on the internet yeah yeah like you know that and that's the thing too you know when you're out in the wild it's very difficult to identify at a you know so-called edible plants you know most of them will make you very very sick or kill you in enough concentration and so you're edible in the sense that they're not going to just kill you that day but you know that that doesn't mean that they're not doing harm that doesn't mean that they don't have these defense chemicals they do it's just that we have more defenses against those defense chemicals and we can break them down more readily before they cause fatal harm uh than than other things you know but things that you know we can eat and we normally you know will kill a dog or a cat and so they have less protections against these things but they're still so they're still poisonous you know they will still kill animals it's just that some animals have defenses against certain poisons and so when you get out in the wild you know you you have to be very careful if you ever want to put a plant in your mouth because most of them will screw you up and that was um my dad knew this uh like a special forces guy i think he was british and he said and this guy said that you know they taught them and you know when you're out in you know survival mode you get dropped off somewhere and you're you're you have to just survive off the land that cardinal rule is never eat anything that doesn't move and no spiders so it's like and then um it's the same idea you know you spiders got a poison sack you know you're you're going to be screwed on that and so you know that that's it it's just so anything that doesn't move so that goes for carrion as well you have some rotting carcass you're not you don't want to eat that our ancestors did though you know and a lot of other animals do also but you're you're running the risk and so i would certainly wouldn't recommend that uh for anyone to do that but you know but but you what does that mean that means animals you know you have to eat animals and so if you're surviving in the wild you eat carnivore that's it and you just get back to your roots and there's so many of these examples that just sort of can point back to what we should be eating optimally and then we go home and we we think that salad's great you know it's it's really silly and i agree with that it's um you know and there's even the idea that eating things like raw meat too is still going to be part of our natural diet or that um that we don't necessarily have to cook things and did we always cook our meats and did we always cook our foods you know back in the day whatever that day was and you know to your comment about the explorers earlier um and you know preferring the fat and everything like that like it's it's so important i think to make sure that if you are going to be even eating again speaking choices for the animal meat that you are eating the the full the amount that's available to you including all of the fat that's going to be that delicious part and super super nourishing to us and forget the salads completely forget not a thing yeah definitely and so obviously you know this at this point you're you're sort of pushing that for your for your patience as well what are the results that you're seeing how are they doing oh my gosh so it's so fascinating so i do a lot of procedures for people who have musculoskeletal disorders and we i do basically a type of regenerative um ortho stuff with like stem cell-based therapies prp things like that and we have to consider that most joint issues pending depending their product from a very severe trauma you know all the things that you the osteoarthritis that we get as we get older stuff like that has a metabolic tie to it so a really good example i can give actually is i can't even count the number of times that i've had this presentation and it's a middle-aged woman who's gotten on a health kick and has started juicing kale and spinach every morning and now all of her joints hurt so naturally they're coming to me because she wants all of her joints fixed right um and i'm like well stop juicing your kale and your spinach and your joint is going to go away i mean mine's just bad business model for me because no procedure in that patient but did they get better absolutely because there's still this metabolic um there's a metabolic cost on all of your joints right because we are you are what you eat and you need you need the fat and you need the protein the amino acids you need all of these things to create those joints right so what i do actually is i do get my patients on i'm calling it a modified carnivore because a lot of them are older and they might not be able to go all the way right away and i'm really big about meeting my patients where they're at and some like some is better than perfection to me like if we can at least get you eliminating most of the bad stuff if you're gonna have like a piece of fruit here and there because it's going to keep you sane but it's going to keep you on the rest of it i'm i'm going to be i'm going to be okay with it because it's going better than what you were doing before so i will give them all the guidelines and again they do what they want but honestly the amount of pain reduction that we get before they ever even come in for the procedure is at least 20 to 30 percent because of that metabolic cost like that inflammation that has been plaguing you from what you're intaking is now just gone right and i'm actually turning a lot of my stuff into a program and i actually just finished recording the program yesterday and my whole um diet module is based on carnivore and it's this idea where you know not only are we am i teaching carnivore but i have a whole unlearning section right the unlearning the fat is bad for us the unlearning the vegetables are good for us because before i give you the new information you need to understand first why this is so bad um so i'm teaching that and with the idea that again i want them coming to me so well prepared for this procedure that we're going to get them back their joints like they had 10 20 years ago right we're going to make them juicy and functional again and they can be active and they can do all of the things that they want and you know i actually had a lot of patients um with a disorder called arachnoiditis which you're probably familiar with you're you're a neuro right you do so yeah fractured is for people that don't know um very severe type of damaging inflammatory disorder of the layer on the spinal cord called the arachnoid layer and a lot of times there can be this adhesiveness that happens with those nerves and these this bundling of these nerves and usually it's in the lower part of the spine but i have seen patients with it um in other regions as well but it produces a whole host of terrible symptoms um some people lose the ability to walk they lose their bowel function urine function sexual function of course the pain in their legs the burning the electrical pain all that nerve type pain we do i do a lot of stem cell therapy for this because we actually can get those nerves to heal and regenerate and it's been phenomenal but with the diet stuff getting them to eat saturated fat again giving them more of that building block for those nerves to heal it's next level like it is just so much more of an improvement because again the body is always going to rebuild with the tools that you give it if you give it dysfunctional tools it's going to build a dysfunctional product if you give it great tools it's going to do even better and you know i do a lot of the comparison of like when we're talking about regenerative medicine where we can akin it to like building a house right you have to have the right tools you have to have the right workers you have to have good timing you have to give it time to happen and things are going to happen in stages right and part of that part of the the right tools is the diet what you're putting in so i'm always big on the minerals big on the fat big on the protein yeah that's really interesting that you know it can help with with uh you know cord tethering as well you know usually when we get involved it's this is such a problem that we need to actually go in there and divide the the the scar tissue and the arachnoid layers and try to unbundle these um but yeah it's it's a nasty nasty uh condition to have and uh that's that's great so do you inject stem cells on you know around the cord or like as you through the dura or i'll tell you yeah i'll tell you my approach so um i actually specialize in taking people's fat cells uh people's stem cells from their own fats so we do a minor liposuction procedure we harvest the stem cells um and we i do two type of processing with it so first type of processing we basically create like a micro fat graft and this is important because stem cells are really really sensitive cells so if you just like pop isolated stem cells into like a really hot and inflamed area they're just going to apoptosis they're just going to die because they're like oh we don't like this so we do micro fat graft and we're keeping them with their food source uh basically the studies show and what i've seen clinical practice is that you do get a higher colony formation with those so they're better able to work and the way that i'm doing my injections are all done ultrasound guidance we're not actually going into the spinal column with these because we don't want to possibly further injure anything um but i basically do a medial branch approach and uh facet approach and some paraspinal approach as well and what this allows the stem cells to do is actually their homing mechanism right so if we're putting them or even if we're doing like a like a nerve hydro dissection around where the nerves is exiting the canal or at that medial branch they actually have the ability to basically detect damage and travel and they do things such as secrete their exosomes across things like the blood-brain barrier into the spinal regions that can help reduce that and i have seen pre and post mris where we do get a reduction in this we also put some intravenously so they're able to go throughout the whole entire body but i've seen people get out of wheelchairs i've seen people have their drop foot fully resolved people who've got their dexterity back in their fingers they can write again they can do all sorts of things sexual function back they've got their deficit like they can defecate on their own they can urinate on their own like it's been after after like a spinal cord injury or like a caught aquinas sort of compression yeah every patient is different i get i've had a lot of women who have had it happen post-epidural i had some people have it happen um after they've like just random accidents um i had one patient have it happen after a gunshot wound that was a really interesting one we actually did his whole his whole spine had a really bad scar going up because of um how they had to go and take the bullet fragments out they had to basically open them right up and we actually did some hydro dissection of the scar itself with some platelet poor plasma and like within weeks he was able to do a full golf swing right he got so much function back it was fantastic yeah and you find that that the carnivore diet helps uh with that as well so is that that that's augmenting those treatments yep so whenever so now whenever patients are enrolling in this uh stem cell program they're getting access to these modules which are teaching them all about carnivore so they're hopefully going to be adopted as i tell them at least the six months while you're in this healing program because i want you to get the best results possible but i ultimately like this to be your lifestyle at this point because it's only going to be better for you right but at least during the time we're working together i need your body to be able to heal the absolute most it can and you know we see these incredible healings just within the carnivore community without them coming to see a provider so you know when you get the combination of the two we can really work synergistically and maybe we can do targeted things for hormones or targeted injection therapies or other things like that i mean man we're just going to create this like amazing is the community amazing and strong and smart and everything already but now we're really recovering people to such a meaningful degree and just the ripple effect that i think that has on the world because now they're showing up as better parents partners you know loved ones everything in their lives and it's just it's a it's really cool the work that we get to do that's good um and so is that is do you still incorporate some of like the you know the herbal prescriptions from from natural naturopath or you want to stick to the the hormones and the injections that you're doing now i really really really use herbs i'll tell you the things that i will give people to supplement um i'll give them a collagen powder or bone broth powder if i think that you know they could use it i'll do minerals i'll do electrolytes because again those things can imbalance initially when people are getting on this stuff and that's pretty much it i might have them do some topical arnica after their procedure because we're doing a minor liposuction after all um but i really don't do a ton of supplements i told you i'm a bad md and i think that's good though you know because you know like you say you're trying to get people healthy and you know they want i think i think some people go to naturopathic medicine uh doc practitioner because they want to get away from allopathic medicine like i don't want to just go to someone who's just going to prescribe me a bunch of drugs and then they go somewhere and they prescribe them a bunch of you know plants and flowers it was just like you know and um and i've seen some people uh naturopaths say oh yeah you know we don't prescribe all these drugs and this that and the other but they are always just stuffing supplements uh out the door with them i was like um how is that not the same thing and um you know so and i obviously like you know like to stay away from from supplements as much as possible because you know certainly for nutritional standpoints but you know some people there are people you know when you get older it can become more difficult to absorb certain nutrients and sometimes you know you people just have uh you know need a bit of help and so i don't i don't really like the idea of supplementing unless you have a a clear you know clinically diagnosed uh deficiency in something so um yeah but obviously there's there is a role for that you know in those in those cases um so yeah so when so what is it what's the main part of your practice now is mostly the injections or yeah mostly regenerative medicine i do i have done a lot of like anti-aging hormone stuff in the past i actually um closed my practice down to new patients for that until at least september just because we were really really busy um and i can only see so many people um but we should be open back up for new patients for that in september and uh yeah i i love doing hormones for patients because ultimately you know hormones are kind of our master signalers in our body and they're responsible for so many things and you know women go through menopause and then have a degree of andropause and you know just because that hormone production declines doesn't mean that those processes in the body that required hormones all of a sudden stop right you know women go through menopause and estrogen does like 500 things in the body and their estrogen production tanks as soon as they hit that but they might still have another 40 years left of their life you mean to tell me that they're gonna live that many decades without those things happening in their system i just don't think that that's fair so i think that you know properly prescribed bio-identical hormones can allow people to live a higher quality life and it's definitely something that i enjoy working with patients with and they get to see again great great great results but you know the diet has to play into that as well yeah i know i i totally agree um you know even with just you know the hormonal side of things you do find that when people go on a carnivore diet uh just you know optimizing their nutrition their body works better their hormones work better you know even just the simple fact that you're increasing uh cholesterol you know you're going to actually you're going to actually make hormones because that that's what you know hormones are made out of is cholesterol and then you're reducing your insulin which actually is very beneficial for a number of reasons but specifically in women hormonally um insulin just high insulin levels uh can block the conversion of testosterone into estrogen in the ovaries and so you know you're going to have less estrogen you're going to have more testosterone this is a major culprit in things like pcos yeah exactly and so you know which is the number one cause of infertility in women and and causes all sorts of other problems you know infertility is only one of them you know they'll have a lot of serious medical issues and and not feel good physically or mentally put on weight you know grow body hair facial hair and and not really be happy in general so it's um there's a lot going on there just from diet because you just completely rearrange your your hormones and obviously the you know the hormonal you know mimickers and disruptors in plants that can it can really screw with you um it just makes so much difference and then you know like you know ken berry uh dr canberry you know talks about how i like him oh yeah i love love ken berry you know he said that um when he first started getting onto like you know you know paleoquito sort of approaching and putting his patients on this years ago they uh you know he had had patients that were like in their mid-50s hadn't had a cycle in five years and all of a sudden they were coming back and and some of them were just getting pregnant they didn't even get their their period they just all of a sudden got pregnant because they weren't expecting to have to to you know use precautions so all of a sudden just bam they're pregnant like what the hell did you do to me and you know they were they were all all angry at first and they always said that you know after that they actually became quite grateful that they were able to conceive but uh that first of all has to be a big shock to anyone who's in that position and uh and can be you know quite disrupting but it's uh also it's a sign of your health is dramatically improving and you know and that's that's just a testament to that and then uh yeah i agree you know i um you know i know practitioners and um uh that they have been in the functional medicine world and bariatric medicine for decades and you know they find it you know putting people on your bio-identical hormones at physiological levels which is always the key there you're not you're not you're pumping someone full of roids you're getting them up to a physiological level um you know that this this actually has you know confers [Music] very serious health benefits i don't think i don't think if someone wants to go down that path i think i think it's fine but i always always recommend that they go carnival for at least three months three to six months and then see what your hormones are at that point and see how you feel you know and if you if you if you're you're still deficient and you feel that you need something then you know you know that's something to consider and and discuss with a doctor um but you know you you'll already get a huge amount of benefit you know just from from the diet so i certainly feel fantastic i know you know dr baker you know he's you know in his mid-50s dude's jacked he just works out all the time that's another thing too is is that is that heavy resistance training that will increase your testosterone they'll increase your testosterone receptors that will increase your growth hormone production as well and so you you might not need anything at that point i agree especially for men so the again the man picture we talked about kind of a female picture that i see a lot but the man picture that i see a lot is this guy i get a lot of guys that come to me for ed issues and love helping them with it because it's like the coolest transformation once you actually get them to the other side of it is just like a brand new person is there but the picture that i see is they've had ed that has been solely progressive for many years and it started after their doctor found that their cholesterol was elevated and their blood pressure was slightly up and now they're on a cholesterol lowering medication and blood pressure lowering medication and they're eating more vegetables because their doctor said that they needed to and i just i'm like okay well the good news is this is going to be easy right like the good news is we're going to get you the results that you're looking for but we have to have a really deep conversation first as far as well what why did you get here and you know trying to like a lot of them are very very happy to get off the cholesterol medications because many of them feel terrible once they take them they're like all of a sudden my cognition is gone my joints hurt all the time i'm like well yeah because cholesterol is essential you know it's an essential thing that you actually need you don't want to lower it right it is it is the beginning hormone it's beginning a molecule of all of your hormones right we need it to heal we need for our brain you know good example is pregnancy brain okay this this brain fog that we get when they're pregnant well that's your cholesterol tanking because you're building a nervous system right you need to eat more fat like it is 100 of cholesterol deficiency having that i will take that to the grape but anyway the guys it becomes so much easier to treat the ed when we talk about well okay we're going to eliminate all of these things and that's going to now heal up these factors that caused it in the first place which is the lack of testosterone the damage to your blood flow and also just the agitation of your nervous system right you can't actually get the proper nerve conduction there because well things just aren't working as well as they should be the nerve maybe your nerve your myelin isn't even as nice as it should be because you're reducing all this cholesterol you can't actually heal and repair and truly we need all three of those ingredients for a healthy erection you need the hormones you need the blood flow you need the nerve conduction once we correct all these which usually doesn't need to take a long time maybe three to six months because we simply you know still have the healing timeline ahead of us but you can get full resolution without having to have a surgery without having to have a penis pump without having to spiral down on the viagra cialis tri-mix trail for years which aren't even actually helping you they're not getting to the root of the problem they're just covering it up and they only do that for so long before your physiology eventually craps out right but we can fix it yeah well and that and and yeah that's uh that's got to be very very rewarding as well and like you know i mean you know anytime you you're helping a guy you know get that back you know i'm sure that they're just going to be your biggest fan um this is a funny anecdote without one about viagra when that first came out hit the market um apparently like in uh pilots um there was there was a big disruption and uh and in routes and things like that that pilots were taking because it all goes on seniority like you have more hours you get to pick your routes as a pilot and a captain and so all of a sudden all these these older pilots that had you know you know all this just tens of thousands of miles more than anyone else they were coming out of retirement and they were taking all like the big you know like new york to brazil sort of trips because like now they had viagra and now they're just going all these like hot spots that had like you know you know beautiful women and i just thought that was absolutely hilarious that like enough people uh you know came out of retirement simply to just like brazil was like the main one but a lot of these like major places in south america and uh and they just they just took over those roots like no one no other captain was getting those roots because all these guys came out of retirement just to get those roots i thought that was absolutely hilarious listen i mean i really do think that ed is the silent epidemic right now and you know we there's there's roughly 30 million men just in the united states that have some degree of ed and it's like it it goes up by age group right so fifty percent of men are fifty sixty 60 of men in their 60s and you know not only does it mean that their underlying health is affected because clearly it has to be right and pending you know a very severe trauma or something to the area because it still does happen but if you have just you know garden variety ed it's because your health is tanked and this is i don't know if you're in our carnivore group on oh you are in our carnival group but it's called harder happier healthier because that's our brand because my ultimate goal is to actually help guys with ed because my goal is to actually um re-establish strong healthy men in the world because i think that that's what we're seriously lacking like if we want to get to root cause of why the world is sick it's because we need more strong healthy truly masculine men actually stepping into that and embodying that and you know luckily we have you know people like you and my husband and dr baker and dr perry who are like exemplifying this you know as great role models for other guys to see and knowing that hey there is this there is this part of you know society where you can be naturally healthy where you can be a strong masculine men where you can put this you know picture out to the world and it's it's readily accepted and you know celebrated too yeah absolutely um yeah that's one thing i was talking to professor uh ben bickman from from byu on on my channel and he was saying that that uh pointing out that you know ed was one of the first signs of atherosclerosis and and also of um uh you know non-compliance of our arteries because this is that that's one of the things that gets affected first and we certainly see that first that's something that we that's a noticeable result that people say hey you know something's going on here and so that's that's generally like you know an early warning sign like that's the canary in the coal mine that there's more systemic damage happening there's a systemic process going on that that is going to continue to you know batter and and uh worsen your health and so it has but it has the same sort of fix you know you stop doing those things that are causing that and then you know your body can can heal usually it heals quite well if not all the way but you know it's at least going to get better than it is and it's going to stop getting worse you know right and i think it's that i the the broader idea there being that the body wants to heal like our bodies want to be in a state of health and when we get these things like cholesterol laying down in arteries or bone spurs forming it's well that's actually the body's intelligent response to some sort of damage that it just like didn't do quite right because it's trying to fix something and maybe it just isn't doing it correctly but ultimately the thing being is that yes the body is trying to be healthy if something goes wrong it's likely an intelligent response and we should be working with the body not against it to try to help it get there and you can heal my when i talk to patients about regenerative medicine i'm like if you're breathing you can heal like if you're above ground you can heal because you're doing it right now you know if we didn't have active stem cells running through our system we'd all be done in a couple hours like it's that simple so if you're here if you're functioning if you're alive your body can't heal you're never too far gone i truthfully don't believe that ever yeah and you know some people say you know well i'm you know 74 is it was it really too late for me and you know i just tell them like it's never too late to stop eating poison you know there you go boom yeah so you know and that resonates with them my grandmother unfortunately was given very bad advice when she was in her i think she was in her 50s and and she was in in spain at the time and she spoke to a doctor there and said okay you know should i should i she's been smoking since she was 13. it's a way of sort of thumbing her noses at the the the you know the catholic nuns that were running the school that she went to she went to like a catholic boarding school and um so she's been smoking since she was 13. and in her 50s she said well should i really stop this and he said you know what damage is done just enjoy yourself i was like why would you do that malpractice yeah absolutely blatant you know and so unfortunately she keep she kept smoking and you know for another 20 years and gotten you extremely bad emphysema and uh and had a a heart attack was in the hospital for you know a month or more and you know thankfully survived and you know lived another you know 20 years but it was um you know it was it was obviously the wrong call for that doctor to say like oh yeah but no damage is done what more damage can be done and you're also stopping yourself from healing from all the damage that you did to yourself you know yep i'm i'm completely with you on that that is terrible advice you know i honestly like i wish i would have started cataloging this earlier in my career just the things that patients have told me that other doctors told them that are just so disempowering so incorrect so just out of this world like you know patients that are like i don't i don't want to get into it but i'm sure you've had the same experience where it's just like how in the world does this person have a license you know well i got really uh upset the other day uh maybe a few weeks ago when a patient told me that um you know she had she had a primary brain tumor brain cancer and very aggressive very you know gbm very very aggressive and she was talking to you know someone in oncology and they said that um you know so well you know what can you know can i do something can i do this should i worry about what i eat so i worry about exercise this than the other and they just said you know what at this point it really doesn't matter what you do you know you're basically you're on borrowed time and so you know just just do whatever you want i'm sure that they were trying to do that as like a you know just go enjoy your life just get out just don't worry about you know being healthy just you know just just enjoy yourself while you while you can i'm sure that's what they meant by that but that was it was so deflating and defeating to that patient because they just felt completely helpless i'm going to die i have no control over it nothing i do matters and it's just like i'm just at the the whim of the universe and you know i told him i was just like you know that that's completely wrong i disagree with that entirely you absolutely have control on this you absolutely have a say in this what you do does matter you know what you do matters to your body and to your health into this course of this disease and it also matters to the people around you and your family and the legacy you're going to leave behind you so absolutely everything he does matters and you and you do have a say in how this goes um so yeah and you know you could see them like literally their eyes are sort of like their heads were sort of picking up they they brightened up you know as i was talking to them and i think it's it's very important for people going through any any health issue to feel that they have they have a say in this and that they're they're playing an active role in it as opposed to just like oh i have this problem i go to this doctor i get this pill and it's out of my control no it's it's absolutely in your control it's and and more visibly now than ever before because most of these problems are just caused by eating crap and so you know if you can absolutely just change the course of your entire life by you know changing what you eat and your your diet and lifestyle and so there it's really only them that can do it you know i can't i can't eat those steaks for them all i'll share yeah but you know but you know they they have to do it they have to put in the work and and um you know it's uh it's it's them doing it you know it and and so some people don't want to do the work and you know they'll get the results that they get but a lot of people do want want something that they can do and i have so many patients to say you know especially the ones suffering from cancer you know they say you know is there anything i can do what can i do to help this you know you have the chemo and you have the radiation but what can i do what can i do to help this and most people say like oh yeah you know there's really nothing you can do or you know just just you know make sure you get to the the appointments on time or whatever and i was only just like look just be the healthiest individual that you can be you know and you know the healthier you are the better you're going to weather these treatments and the better that your body is going to be able to fight this cancer and um you know and so you know i'll talk to them about what that means because they always ask me what does that mean what should i be eating what should i be avoiding and it takes long a lot longer in these consultations um but obviously i you know i don't i don't feel that it's ethical to not tell them what i know and um and so i have to you know uh go in you know so i go into that if if they want to hear about it um and whether or not it you know takes takes more of my time or not because it's very important that was actually one of the reasons i started doing these videos was was so that i could just have something to direct people to a bank yeah and just and just say like okay well this is what i'm talking about and they're like wait what and so they always obviously have tons and tons of questions and so now i can just sort of give them a bit of a rundown and just say hey look i've set up videos exactly for this you know take a look at that see what you think they all have resources they all have links to other you know doctors and researchers and papers and studies and you know and take a look through them and just just do some homework and see what you think and if that's something you want to incorporate then you you know you do that i don't ever try to push this on anyone but you know if if they ask about it you know i feel that i'm absolutely obligated to to tell them about it because i i know it works you know i agree and i yeah i agree with that for sure like it's it's never i'm always inviting people right it's always just an invitation to try it this way and you're never you're never held to it i'm not gonna force you to do anything you're obviously your own sovereign being and i hate that and this goes back to the whole the paradigm of medicine too right you know i hate the whole trust me i'm a doctor thing like yes trust me because i'm a doctor but also like take what i'm saying and go and learn it for yourself research it for yourself and you know pay attention to who you're getting the information from i posted the other day my recent labs on my social media because i want to be like hey i think my advice is so good that i'm taking it myself and here are my results right so it can speak to that but then you know you also get to this idea in the paradigm of medicine where you have patience and i feel like patients come to you in one or two different positions right either they're the victim in their story and they're looking for the doctor to be the hero and to you know save the day with a pill or a surgery or what have you right and i feel like that's a very disempowering paradigm to be in but that's what we're used to right the generations that came before us that's what they had they didn't have people sharing on social media they had maybe the their local doctor that they went to who did that they dispensed the medication and maybe people just didn't get as sick as they do now because we didn't have the crappy food sources and so that type of medicine was okay but now we're not in that paradigm anymore so a lot of thinking needs to switch right so now i feel like the second type of patient that comes in which a lot of them are coming to us is that they actually want to be the hero in their own story they're not actually looking for a hero they want to be the best hero in their own story and they're looking for the guide right they're looking for somebody that can guide them on the right path help them make the right decisions so that they again can be the hero to their family to their work to whatever it is and i think that we really do need to start continue to push that type of paradigm of medicine because that's how we actually create healthy humans by taking their hand and leading them and inviting them on this journey to be healthy with us and not just acting as that hero or the savior to them when they're in that victim state yeah yeah and i think that's uh you know people when they have that mentality where they they want to be you know an active member in their own uh you know health journey i guess is a weird new edgy way of saying it but it's that's probably pretty accurate um but in just in their health you know they want they want they want to be in control of their health and they want to get better and i think that those those people um will will often do better if they get the right advice obviously you know there's so many people that you know do exactly that and they and they get told go go vegan do the gomes diet and they they get sucked into that and they read medical medium i've never you'll see i i heard that mention uh but i've never actually uh come across that what is that he pushes juicing like four to twelve stalks of celery every morning gross i know and it's just it boggles my mind and people and like some of the things that you know because people will share these things like oh what are your thoughts on this and i just look at it and i'm like where do i even start like there's so many things here to break down and um you know it's he he claims that his information comes from a channeled entity oh come on so zero basis in science but yet there's these health coaches on social media preaching medical mediums work and like people are paying big bucks to see these health coaches right not even like physicians like hundreds or thousands of dollars for these health coaches it's like it blows my mind so you know we're we're out here trying to do the absolute best we can but like this is what we're up against that's actually insane though i mean he's saying he's saying that he's channeling a spirit that tells him to juice the medical medium yes that's how he's getting this information so it's all from this like yeah it's completely bonkers but here's the thing is that these other people this is where i think me and you you know and dr barry and all these other doctors have a hard time is because we have medical boards we have malpractice we have things that actually like confine us into more of a uh box than just joe schmo on the internet who you know might not get sued for you know posting x y and z right like they don't necessarily have um the the people over them looking at their shoulders and looking at what they're doing um this is the same degree that we do they're not held to that standard yeah yeah that is a bit uh concerning i mean you know you obviously you you have to be very careful when you're giving out medical information you can certainly give out advice and say this is how i would do it or this is what i've seen but you know specific medical you know advice is that that's actually like the legally protected uh you know thing and you can get into big big trouble uh doing that and so these guys might be you know you know asking for for some problems there because if they're going out giving you medical advice and telling people to stop taking this medication or that medication do this than the other uh they they could actually face uh serious charges especially if someone gets hurt um doing that they they could actually face you know criminal negligence charges uh or or more i don't know exactly what they would they would get hit with but they they could be in some serious trouble the the idea that you're going to take advice from some spirit guide who's channeling i mean who's he channeling just like you know like the best doctor in you know some galaxy somewhere like is he chilling aliens or spirits or like what the hell is this guy like saying it's just like you know like you know uh you know archangel gabriel is like channeling through he's like no no seriously celery guys how to be celery yeah and um that's that that's that's bizarre to me that but uh so it sounds like there's just sort of a raw food vegan juicing sort of thing you know it's i again i haven't dove into it in any meaningful capacity i've seen just like the you know the stuff that pops through on so on the social media you know platforms um but it is very disturbing because the people that start to believe it they really do truly think that this is the right thing and there's a like it's an it's another thing when you have you know scientists or other people providing you some sort of evidence that you can like strictly refute but when all of your evidence is oh it was just channeled there's no base of logic for you to even say anything against that besides oh you know maybe my higher power study is sick like where do you you can't even you can't have even a rational conversation to be able to try to to switch where they're where their thought process is coming from it's very strange too because like you know you know maybe this guy is fully uh you know fully believes what what he's saying i'm surprised you've never come across him no yeah god that's that's bizarre no i i've uh we're gonna get ads for him oh dude yeah that would be awful um you know but like you know maybe this guy you know completely believes what he's saying but you know if this is that this is you know a con which it really sounds like it is um there are laws protecting these sorts of things like it's like yeah how do these guys get not get prosecuted or how do they get prosecuted i guess you may have to like you know prove that they they don't believe what the hell they're saying so it might be difficult that they're just conning people but it's um you know hopefully people aren't um there aren't too many people buying into this and hopefully that that settles down uh because that's um that's just gonna hurt people you know i agree there's not too many other ways to slice that you know and i think this is just like a broader conversation that maybe if like somebody is a health coach and they're listening to this you know a lot of people don't know this but the legal definitions of diagnosing and treating are actually reserved for physicians right so if any like if you look at like different state statutes as far as like what is a doctor what are the privileges that a provider actually has diagnosing and treating is what makes somebody the physician so when you have people that are doing this as part of quote unquote health coaching you do really set yourself up for possible legal uh ramifications because now you can be held to the board standards of that provider for example right so it's it becomes you know this this really tricky thing and i think that you know it's great that we have social media we can share all this advice and it's great that people want to get into helping other people about their health but i do think that there really needs to be a more definitive line um for for safety purposes so that people aren't getting hurt because unfortunately you know people people are subject to what they're exposed to and they will believe people that sound compelling and sometimes they don't have the ability or the means to be able to discern whether or not this is correct information or not and it might not be until they end up hurt or sick or something else that they you know go down oh so we may have lost connection sabrina can you hear me are we have we lost you i don't know we'll give it another minute okay so unfortunately we lost our connection there with dr salt and weren't able to get it back going again so i just wanted to say a uh you know a very big thank you to dr soul for coming on and speaking with me today hopefully you guys found that helpful and useful i certainly found it interesting myself and you know please follow dr salt on her instagram which is just uh d-r-s-o-l-t and her name is dr sabrina salt s-o-l-t so thank you again to dr salt and thank you all for watching see you next time [Music]