Regenerative Rancher Reveals Why GRASS-FED Beef Is Better | Amy Hay

the carnivorism was kind of a natural progression you accept your new normal and then when your new normal goes up you're like wow like I thought I felt great then but I feel even better now I kind of slipped between sapen and lion because sometimes I do want a mango or something but mainly just me I have burgers for breakfast and I have steak for lunch and I have steak for dinner I'm a beef Ran So is all there hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the plant pre MD uh with uh your host Dr Anthony chaffy today I have a very special guest uh Amy who is a Rancher from Scotland but in Canada with a New Zealand husband and uh they came to ranching uh later on in life and uh and to the carnivore uh lifestyle more recently Amy thank you so much for joining us hi it's nice to be here I've followed you for we while now so stargazing no no um well that's great so so will you you and your husband have a have a very interesting story and how you came to where you are would you mind uh letting us know a bit about yourself and and how you got to be where in the situation that you are now um so we are from the maritime and yachting Industries um we met we met in France H when my husband was chief engineer on a big like the privately owned luxury yard and I was I'm an engineer and I was um part of the company that was designing the satellite Communications equipment for his yacht and that's how we met and I just remember being in a bar in in uh Monaco and um he was just regaling me with with with tales that he didn't want to do this forever his dream was to have a beef Ranch and I was just like yes yes whatever whatever thinking there's plenty of farmers in Scotland that you know maybe I'm going to get out of that and hook up with some glamorous yti and I joke that I'm still married to a freaking farmer yeah we um we he left uh we left the Yachts the the sea and we were we um we actually moved to China and we lived in China for two years um building big Yachts for a an American company and in a um a western Market but we were building them out out there and then um someone got pregnant and we had to leave and someone got pregnant yeah and um we we actually picked Canada because it is halfway between Scotland and New Zealand so we we picked it so we moved here and we moved here um 2009 and um we were very pregnant very jobless very homeless and then we ended up living in our friends basement and I when I say a basement I mean literally there was a curtain a mattress on on the floor a curtain and all their mountain bike stuff so we were like where what do we do now and Scott ended up getting a job for um a company another yacht Builder it was just a six- week contract that went on and on and on until he ended up general manager and we he stayed there for 12 years I think it was 10 or 12 years um no because we've been here yeah 10 years um and uh when that was all going on we ended up uh realizing our dream of buying a ranch and our Ranch was six acres it was Tiny But it it it was a ranch and um we went to the auction and we bought four Herford steers and fattened them up and kept one and sold three and then thought wow this is easy let's make it happen and then fast forward and we're now um I think someone coined the phrase or someone told us that were the it's a bit of a mouthful but the largest Soul grass-fed and finished direct to Market beef Ranch in BC okay nice but that's like it a nutshell yeah very good well that's well certainly yeah just just hanging out in a yacht in Monaco very normal very normal things yeah and yeah so it was on my yacht in Monaco and um not ours yeah we were just staff yeah still though and well that's good so so you go direct to Market so or just direct to Consumer so do you have do you have a a company or logo that you that people order from you or how does that work here's our um why kah so it's w KH so we um we always wanted to do the direct to Market model we never wanted to do um auction or anything like that and we're super passionate about the benefits of beef and the Environmental aspects of beef and grazing and um just there's so much misinformation out there like everywhere you look it's it was almost like you know you're getting plant-base pushed down your throat or you're getting that um cow farts are killing the planet or something like that and it was just driving me insane like it was just driving me crazy that I ended up actually calling Canada beef going what are you doing like and um their Communications director actually called me back kind of going what do you mean I said well you would think that me being a beef eater and a beef Rancher I would be targeted by your ads but I see nothing like I see nothing but the anti beef message and like what are you going to do about it and he was like well we have this campaign and I'm like but I don't see it like where and um I ended up getting frustrated so um I started my own podcast and started waxing lyrical about about the benefits of beef and then um we put together the ranch um Instagram page and um we're not as big as some like there's some out there who are massive but we have something like 22,000 followers and a lot of it is more industry information like we're trying to get out there that beef is good cows are good grazing is good it doesn't matter if you know it's grain supplemented or grass-fed just eat beef like just beef beef beef um and the direct to Market model was kind of how we wanted to do that because our product is going direct to the consumer and they know exactly where it comes from as opposed to you know going to a feed lot and then it goes to a store and nobody actually knows where their food comes from so yeah that's also super important hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want a nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnival bar is a great option so I like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25% off total all right thanks guys yeah that's the thing too you know people say that that you know cows are bad for the environment cows are the environment you know cows are part of the environment they're you know there's a there's a symbiotic relationship between the animals and the the plants that are in the ecosystem and the idea that well they use all this water they use all they make all these emissions but if you just have the same piece of land with just wild animals on it it's exact same emissions it's the exact same water usage because the water usage is just rain that goes onto the ground and grows the grass which the cows then eat maybe they drink from a stream and then pee it directly out it's Net Zero it's you know and so you know especially with water I mean because they drink the water and then they pee it out they don't just just sequester it has nitrogen and carbon in it which fertilizes the soil like it's better than which was yeah yeah yeah well it upcycles it so they take in water and they pull and they piss out fertilizer right Y and um you know the same thing with they're eating they you know they they defecate you know very very fertile stuff which makes the ground better and more fertile and helps the grasslands and so you know the idea that they're just destroying the environment is crazy you know they they're you take the animals out of an environment and the plants die off and they turn into deserts you have to have the animals with the plants you can't have you can't have one without the other and the from an emission side of things if you just have wild animals out in yede or Yellowstone those exact same emissions that you would have from cow it makes no sense that we would blame these things yeah people believe what they want to believe though like they believe whoever the biggest voices at the time or whoever has like the biggest book or I don't know it's yeah the amount of arguments I have with vegans is it's very enjoyable sometimes but it's insane yeah well sometimes it is you know and and just the the arguments are a bit insane you know saying there's one argument that um is being made now because they they keep going from Hill to Hill to from Hill to die on to Hill to die on to Hill to die and they just get keep getting knocked off and keep getting knocked off and keep finding smaller and smaller Hills and you know now the current Hill is yes you can't get proper nutrients you can't get all the nutrition you need yes humans evolved and are biologically adapted to eat meat yes we've been eating meat for the last two million years but that doesn't mean that it's good for you yeah I'm sorry what like the hell are you talking about that doesn't make any sense well all you have to do is make it to reproductive age and just reproduce I'm like well no that's not true because you need to raise your damn kid right oh but what when when you get up to like double reproduction age then okay well which one is it reproduction age or double reproduction age and then it's like there's no benefit after that like really what about wise men what about you know the the village elders and things like that that's always been a thing you know they obviously provide a benefit for living longer oh but it none of this is is is lining up with biology or reality and you know them saying that well but it if it it just gets you to where you need to go and just up to reproduction age and then that's it it doesn't select for that no what it does select for is baby surviving and so if you don't have very good nutrition and your mother is and the mother is not eating good nutrition and that's damaging her and it's damaging the baby baby doesn't make it so no people make it so no I'm sorry actually that doesn't work and you know you don't you don't ever see meat ERS uh having kids dying of breastfeeding where we actually are seeing more reports now of vegans breastfeeding and their kids dying from the breast milk so failure to thrive sorry failure to thrive exactly and so you know so that that doesn't make any sense but yeah it's sometimes it's just um yeah it just gets just more annoying when it is just like really that's your argument now yeah yeah well good luck with that I buang my head yeah it's awful sometimes yeah it can be but uh yeah I mean I guess you got to do it you know because there there are misleading enough people that you have to have the counterarguments out there um so is you're you're doing a podcast now what's the name of that H respect the beef nice I haven't updated for I think I've done two seasons and then with everything else it was just too much but I have some saved to post soon soon but uh it was just trying to get all these Avenues to kind of I mean I know we're a very small voice but I can be I can be really loud but to get it out there that you know eat beef and that was yeah so I I am I've interviewed um a vegan butcher so he is a butcher he was our Butcher and he used to be a vegan and we've been chatting via email him and his wife run the Butcher House and when he came online it was him not her and I was like whoa I was expecting your wife like when you said you're a butcher and you a vegan and he was like yeah part of my life I don't want to talk about anymore and it it was awesome yeah that's funny so he formerly a vegan or he's still a vegan for no formerly now he's 100% me eater good good for him oh yeah now that's good um well that's great what and um how long have you been doing that she said two seasons and it s you like once a year or how do that started it in when did I start I 202 21 what's it now we're in 2023 so yeah I kind of do like nine episodes when it's over the quiet time over winter and then okay summer is just crazy and then fall winter comes around and yeah there's less to do with the cows because they look after themselves so yeah yeah okay yeah fair enough great and so um so you've come to eating pretty much a carnivore diet is that right I to be a vegetarian you used to be a vegetarian even better very long time ago I was but more because I mean I I was very young and I was misinformed like my morals and my my idealism is still the same in that I wanted to be a vegetarian because I believe the animals were treated better but now I know better and there's nothing there's nothing more ethical than a ranch-raised cow at all like there's nothing but I I was young and um I remember thinking that I mean I'm from Scotland if my dad or brother shot shot a pheasant I would happily eat that because it had a good life and one bad he's gone but I wouldn't eat chicken or I wouldn't eat anything from the store like I I'm sure I was my mom's nightmare um but now yeah I am pretty much 100% carnivore I don't eat anything green yeah pretty that's good so what what brought you to that how did you come to to find that out so I mean I the V the vegetarian M didn't last that long my um I succumb to a stake but the um the the carnivorism was kind of a natural progression so um I have three kids my middle child my first came early he was six weeks prey um my next baby uh she was breach and here in Canada they don't let you go breach like they won't give you a choice to go at all it's automatic C-section which I F and I never want but anyway I had to have a C-section and it was the worst experience ever and uh long story short it got very infected extremely infected to the point but they didn't realize because I was I was saying like aches and pains they're like it's just postpartum aches and pains take some Advil but it was actually this raging infection so I went I think four weeks postpartum I was literally paralyzed like I couldn't get out of bed Jesus uh I had a raging fever and my husband eventually goes back to where um I gave birth and they were like you know she's septic like full body septicemia that you kind of need to make your pece that she might not be here tomorrow um and I had a two and a half year old and a four-week old and he was like in bits and um I made it through the night like I think I went in there with a temperature of 104 and my heart rate was 140 at rest oh my God and there was it was awful like I had I was there for almost a month um with bed rest IV an antibiotics but I couldn't move and they said it was um septic reactive arthritis but instead of being in like one part of your body it was my whole body um it was awful and they said that it would go away like in about nine months I would be back to normal but I never was and um then um I was referred to a rheumatologist and they said I had rheumatoid or arthritis my r factor was slightly elevated like it was just above normal but it wasn't like a raging ra but I presented like I had really bad ra so I mean I knew nothing like this was all super new so they prescribed um hydroxy chloroquin and um which was okay and then when that wasn't enough they prescribed methra a which is a a chemo drug but it also and it made me so ill like my hair fell out I was nauseous all the time I turned into an absolute like my personality was just awful like I was RA it was awful and I was like I hate feeling like this and I did some research and um I tried keto first thinking you know like fats and no carbs um and then that was kind of okay but it was super I don't know it just it didn't fit well and then I I cut out all glut and night shades and then that kind of made me feel better but it still wasn't right and then I took the leap to carnivore and um it was more sapan carnivore I guess that I would still eat some fruits and dairy and meat but that was about it there was nothing no inflammatory like broccoli or spinach or anything like that and no grains and no night shades um and I had an appointment with my rheumatologist and my r factor was back down um I came off the meds or I came off the meds and then I got shingles and I had a flare up so he put me back on the meds and then I'm like no I don't want to be on these it's awful so I I just said no um in carnivore diets pretty much healed everything like I can I do triathlons and I played field hockey and I I LIF weights and I run a ranch and I ride and I run and um it's and there's no meds and my rheumatologist was super supportive and he signed me off um and I'm back into the lowest life insurance bracket like I don't have to declare it or anything like it's been that long but yeah and I can feel it like if I slip slip up then I suffer like if I have a swig of beer and it's like no I shouldn't have done that because then I can't make a fist again it's like it's just not worth it my body is too important to slip up kind of thing yeah definitely so how long ago was that that you ended up having 12 years 12 years ago wow so so you you sort of naturally got off on everything except just meat when when did you go just pure just meat really or you know sapan the pure so the pure carnivore as in like Lion diet just you know you like fruit and dairy and things like that um oh um four or five years ago okay yeah nice yeah and you and you are did you go Li diet after that or you still doing the fruit Li D I did after I went onto lion diet uh just over a year ago okay and it was like night even though I was feeling great before that I remember saying to Scott is like well you kind of you accept your new normal and then when your new normal goes up you're like wow like I thought I felt great then but I feel even better now so it was I kind of slipped between sapen and lion because some times I do want a mango or something but but yeah it's mainly just me I have burgers for breakfast and I have steak for lunch and I have steak for dinner I'm a beef Ranch so it it's all there yeah yeah well that's good well you you'll get along with Maggie then when you guys go over there um no I I met Amy because she reached out when I was when I was um doing the campaign to help Maggie the Rancher and try to help her save Her Herd because hey prices have rled due to the drought and um they were going to lose half their herd and so Amy and her husband reached out and their ranchers in BC and thought that they could give some advice and support changing their model and um and you said that you were you're going to go and see them in a few weeks is that right I am I'm taking it's my middle daughter's birthday and she wants to go to Calgary okay so we're to Calgary and Maggie's like we're just an hour north so I think we're going to go we're going to extend our trip by day and we're going to go up and see ma Mac and Maggie and I think they're coming here because um we're going to take some of their cowes for them we're going to take I think four bulls and four cows maybe more maybe 10 head in total for some custom feeding so we have hey it's cheaper than what they can buy hay for okay and we'll bring them here um and I think we're also going to bring some of their bulls that they want to process and anything else that's ready to our butcher MH so we're we're in we're like in the middle of BC um we're about five hours away from the Alberta border maybe maybe six um and they're like another two the other direction and our client list isn't that far east like we only go a couple of hours East of us and then we go all the way to Vancouver but we have a massive following so we have said that um if they have anything ready now we can take to our Butcher and they will they'll drop it off and pick it up but we'll get them sold for them and they can deliver them Eastern BC as they drive back to oh yeah Alberta yeah great nice so they'll get started with the direct Market model and yeah yeah well that's really good yeah yeah and so so are are the people are your customers mostly buying like you know quarter shares or half cows or or just different selections of of cuts or how does that know nor work everything so we we use the tagline um no order too small so people can buy a pound of ground we don't you know we don't discriminate um up to a whole cow so if it'll suit all budgets all freezer sizes all stages of life that if they want access to good Ranch rais beef then we will make we will make that happen so people we have um I call it an online platform but I don't mean an online store so like our on platform is everything from our landing page our website our social media our email list and the on online store so all of that together kind of builds this online platform that people find us through social media or they find us through our website from word of mouth or they sign up to our newsletter and we kind of just keep things moving and moving so yeah it it it works yeah no that's really good and and that's great that you're you're able to help uh you know Maggie and Mac yeah so they when we were there I mean they she's only been eating meat just purely through preference you know yeah always she just hated vegetable didn't want to eat them and when she moved out of her house she was just like never again and um and she didn't even realize that this was like the healthiest thing to do she wasn't thinking on those terms the way the way I came to it she was just like never never screw them she was just stubborn which is great and um you know raise you know had six kids you know just eating meat the whole time and you know and uh and and the whole time was just like yeah that's what I eat I don't eat any of that other crap that's not what I want to eat is purely just by force of will which is great uh but the you know but the the meals were great too like I'm sure they'll have you maybe over for dinner or something like that but you know there's always a roast in the oven they always have you know strips of fat and things like that they always have the fat trimmings and you know this like just cooking up fat trimmings butter with like a like a p like eggs with like a pound of butter and they make it I I don't know how the hell they do it but they fold the butter into the eggs as they're as they're cooking it and it just invelop it so it's not like liquid butter around it's amazing it's like it's just an amazing eggs and so she's been doing it for a long time so it's great I I think you'll you'll enjoy that then my kids like my um my my kids are 9 11 and 14 and um it was basketball season last year and uh my daughter calls me up from school going are you going to come and watch I said of course I'll be there to watch he goes can you bring me a protein snack and I'm like sure I'll bring you a a protein snack and she goes mama I mean steak right so she's like the only kid at at the basketball game that's like munching on steak at half time just like a T-bone just grabbing it like a popsicle pretty much I've had that that's my go-to uh car Stak is a T-bone you can cook it up and just hold it by the bone and just like eat it like a popsicle while you're driving so tips for anyone you know that's that's the best one to do they're all good yeah yeah so the so are your kids um mostly eating meat too how do they find that adaptation they love it my um my son actually I mean he's big in in the gym at school and stuff and um in basketball and he he said the other day that he never gets bored of eating beef at always tastes good which is great um I mean I think we probably have beef five times a day five times a week we'll sometimes intermingle it with lamb and some fish yeah but yeah pretty much but they yeah they they seem like it was I think last year I started experimenting with them um and I remove I stopped buying cereal and I stopped buying granola bars for them like it's just so easy to throw it into their lunches and things at school and I st I mean I don't buy bread anyway for for for me but I stopped for them too they kind of grumbled a wee bit at the start but then then they started having more energy levels and more um level mood swings and their skin cleared up and their hair hair cleared up and they're just whole attitude to life was just so much more buoyant and they didn't realize this they didn't know what was going on but um yeah they're pack packed lunches are like homemade jerky and bong and dried fruit fruit and pistachio nuts and home homemade yogurt from like 5% milk and stuff and they yeah they don't seem to want anything else really though they do have an addiction to ice cream but oh well well but but that's that's a that's an actual addiction you know so it's like yes sugar I'm cutting yeah but um yeah they um they definitely I've seen a difference in them too yeah awesome so you guys went obvious direct director Market what what gave you the Insight that that would be a better sort of business model and way way to organize a ranch um we do things differently like we all we do like um we're first generation ranchers they say because we've never done this so we have no preconceived ideas so the idea like looking at it from a business standpoint the idea of raising something to sell it at almost a retail cost for the middleman to then market up three or four times and gain all the money but doing any of the work it's like well why would you do that but that's what everybody does but from someone on the outside looking in going but it makes zero sense like you're buying everything at retail prices yet you're selling at a wholesale price and you're making pittance when you're up at 3:00 in the morning in minus 40 or you're you know and it's just like this makes zero sense but it was like a dream to do this and it was like well we have to do do it right so um my husband he has he has these two sayings and one of them is um the most expensive phrase in farming is because that's how we've always done it and it's true because people have seen their parents and grandparents and great grandparents do this and they think well that's what I have to do but if you do something the same thing over and over again you're not going to get a different outcome you're going to get the same outcome um and then his other favorite saying is our cattle work for us we don't work for our cattle so we again we look at everything from a business standpoint like from behind the glass and we we pick breeds that work here for us like we're in the mountains of BC we don't use Angus and we don't use um herfords and we don't use anything that has like a dairy breed in it we use Highland SSH Highland cattle which are made environment so they have a low input for a high output um they're also slower growing which is great for us because it it lends to like a beautiful marbled meat and it's naturally leaner because they have that big thick coat they don't have that extra fat cap they still have fat and they're still marbled but it's it's not the same it's different and we have um galloways which is another Scottish breed and then we breed read everything to um a wagoo bull or bulls so we have um we have full blood Woo which actually do amazing in our Winters here um and we have Highlands and galloways oh interesting so we so because wo have this narrow head and shoulders and Gallows and Highlands have the big hips we don't do calf check every two hours we're not getting up all hours to go and check on calves and to pull C I think in five years we've pulled two calves ever because we we choose a breed that suits for us so I mean like and people laugh at us and people are like this will never work and you'll never do this and why do you have these cows and you'll never take them to auction because they've got horns and they're hairy and they're different colors and it's like we don't want to take them to auction that's not what that's not what we do here and uh the beef is amazing like the beef is out of this world nice you you you'll have to come and try it yeah I definitely would you know that's thing I love those Highland cows a big big fuzzy big fuzzy cows yeah they they're really cute like and like the babies like they're just the cutest things ever just little yeah just little little rag doll just flopping around you know yeah they fluffy thing with just a mop covering it you know yeah yeah very cute yeah I mean that's the thing you know I mean that that that makes sense you know and I was I was speaking to a Rancher here in Australia who is sort of first generation and and looked at it from a business standpoint like Hey how do I make this uh you know a proper business and came to very similar um conclusions that you did um both in the direct to Market U model but also in breeding and only using animals that are fit to purpose and that actually like work well in that environment so they didn't just get the whatever cows that everybody gets and just and just try to force it into the environment of you know Aid uh and hot miserable Central Australia um but they uh they found this this cow from South Africa it's called the Yuni that the Zulus raised and it's just it's basically like a a wilderbeast that's been sort of tamed I mean it's not it's a cow but it's but it's it's out there with lions and so this thing needs to be up on its feet and running around you know they're trying to like put the tag on its ear it's like as soon as this thing's out you can't catch it you know it's gone and so um and he asked me about what the hell is this I I can't catch the Cales and he and the guy you got it from was South African guy just laughed at me he says we have lions in Africa like they have to be up and going and so and they were very fit for purpose they have smaller birth weight uh so they don't have to pull casts or anything like that they have wider hips and um and they very small birth weight but then they grow very quickly right same as yeah okay there you go so it's it's yeah it's right there you mean you shouldn't have to be you know pulling all these things there's something wrong I you shouldn't be I mean you can breed you know British you know English Bulldogs if you want you know but it's not going to be you're not g to have a fun time doing it and so you know when you're when you're doing this as a as a working Ranch obviously it makes a lot more sense to have a cow that like you don't need to you don't need to you know do surgery and and procedures for it to get it out it should just be should just work be exactly I mean everybody here every everywhere everyone's so hung up on Angus and Angus is another Scottish breed Aberdine Angus and and I guess they've been bred for a northern American Market but back home there's they're nothing special whereas Highland beef is a premium beef like you my brother pre-booked like a um a prime rib roast from a highland cow months in advance for Christmas like that's how special it is like it's premium beef whereas but they don't do well in auctions because they have long hair and big horns and yeah whereas an Angus is black and sleek and it looks nice so it's been bred for that but they're not they're not that Hardy really yeah so what so when it's taken to auction why why is one doing so much better i' I've heard that before like the inoni has a has a a modeled coat and so like oh well that that's not that great why why what the hell who who's buying that who gives a exactly I don't know but I know that when you go to auctions they often like they'll they'll push like a black pen so it's they all look the same it's a nice herd it's aesthetically pleasing um you often get penalized for horns too because they're harder to handle um stuff like that the auctions they love them all red or all black whereas yeah our herd our um the guy who financed us when we like the it's cattle finance and he comes and checks the herd once year he laughs at our kind of mly crew because everything we have Speckles and we have different colors and we have white stripes and we have everything but it's it's the best beef out there I tell you yeah nice yeah that's funny that they just want that appearance but I mean does it I mean does it change the taste of the meat probably not I couldn't imagine it yeah that's very strange well I mean I think that's that's part of the you know the benefit of of being an outsider coming in saying that's dumb I don't care about that um and and just sort of changing changing the market and changing the game a bit and you find and if you're successful at it and you're showing that you know you don't need it to be just this one look that doesn't actually change anything it actually benefits doing these other things people are going to take notice and change if they want to survive it's it's adapt or die that's how it works in uh in in life and in business you ever think about Darwin's the theory that me maybe maybe we're the ones that are going to be left here because we're going to be the strongest and fittest yeah yeah all the vegans are gonna die off because they're not it's Darwin and and birth rates go down and sperm count goes down and uh I mean birth rates have gone down dramatically you know all over all over the world but you know and specifically there and and there's a lot of people saying well because we're destroying the environment doing this I'm not going to you know I'm not going to eat meat and I'm not going to have kids and fine you do that you know we'll see you in a generation or not you know not yeah and um I'll have nine kids and they'll they'll just rule this place you know and just fine and uh but yeah you know it could be and you know I mean I I think the the Saving Grace is that most vegans and vegetarians quit just like you did you know and and your Butcher and everything like that yeah and you do it and it's a you know it's it's something that you you for a while because you you've been told and conned into thinking it's the right thing to do for whatever reason and like you say the motivations are still the same you know I have the exact same motivations as any vegan does you know I don't want to harm people I don't want to harm animals I don't want to harm the environment uh I also don't want to harm myself or my kids or my parents or my patients and that's very important too and I think that you know that that all of those things are addressed by eating properly and and doing things in a model that works with nature and works with the world that we live in not the world that we want to live in yeah yeah I've I've had um I've often had discussions and they and some of the plant-base amongst us seem to get stuck on that I'm like um intent like you got to think about intent that we mindfully intend to process an animal yet that animal is going to feed hundreds of people and it's so much good in its life like it's worked in harmony with nature it is um been part of fire prevention and protection which is huge here it's nourished the soils it's reversed desertification it's enhanced water lands yet and that is my purposeful intent yet you're eating all this plant-based monocrops and you don't intend to do any harm does that make it any better like you don't intend to murder those rabbits and those hummingbirds and those Ammon and those bees and those deer like in like I'm from Scotland in the UK we have no natural Predators there's none there's no Predators at all so we call 350,000 deer a year to protect the CRS and Forestry 350,000 deer every year are called Jesus in in the UK because there's no no natural predator but I don't know it's I kind of get lost in my thought but the intent is that they don't intend to kill anything yet so much dies for that diet but the intent doesn't make it any worse or better yeah yeah exactly yeah I mean um that's the uh you know that that that's a point is that like with different policies and and you know political things well we want this to help the poor or we want this to help you know school kids or something like that but then the policy does the exact opposite it doesn't matter how good your intentions are the results are bad and so you need to change that well no no no the policy is good because our intentions are good no the intentions are good the policy is bad keep the intentions change the policy exactly yeah yeah and then so so you guys run on a regenerative model is that right we do so we um yeah we um our Mentor is Nicole masters of Integrity soils um her book Is For the Love of soil and she's amazing and we've hosted clinics here with her to kind of get her out there into our area but she's amazing she's down in the States now and she features heavily in the movie to which we belong I don't know if you've seen that it's really good if you've seen kiss the ground and um sacred cow is along the same lines it came out two years ago and it's amazing it's to which we to which we belong and it's all about regenerative agriculture but yeah so we we moved here from the coast with Vats full of Graz on and um glyphosate and all sorts thinking we're gonna have to kill all the weeds and then before we did any of that uh Scott went to um a presentation that the local Farm Advisory Board went to and she was the speaker and he came home like completely going we got to change and and it was just this this he was just gung-ho on regenerative EG and I was just like yeah yeah whatever whatever you want to do love we will that's fine and the next year we hosted a clinic here and I had said to him you know I'm not sure I want to attend I'm just going to go and ride you'll be fine he goes no you have to you have to I okay I'll attend the first day oh my God I was hooked like it was just like mindblowing I was like wow like I'm so glad and it just it just makes perfect sense like it's n the soils otherwise you have nothing like if you don't look after your soils you don't have any food so no soils is no food um and you want to uh nourish what you do want don't kill what you don't want so instead of killing your weeds look at them and tell and see what they're telling you about your soil so if you see Dand lines and thistles EV everywhere everyone thinks it's weeds whereas I see a long tap route that is bringing nutrients from further down below to the upper levels for more plants so you kind of have to let them do their life cycle um and if you if you have your cows grazing there so we will uh bail graze over winter so they'll get the high organic matter high carbon content um the next year those dandel lines and thistles have gone because the soil is now nutrient dense so the soil's gone oh I don't need you and anymore you can go away else and they go dormant they're still there but they're not above the soil um and it's kind of mindblowing that if you actually think that are you in um I think she told Scott this are you in the Life business or the death business and it's like well the life I guess and it's like yeah you want living soils not dead soils and um we did a we did a study here in 2020 I'm losing track of time what's this 2023 so in 2021 it was a super drought year here it was really dry really hot we had no rain um and we did a h a study for the local forage Council and they came in in the spring they planted a whole heap of stuff in one of our fields to kind of see how they survived and they came in September expecting everything to have died and our fields are still Lush and green and they're like do you irrigate we're like no we don't but um we bail graze and we are increasing the carbon content of our soils and they were like shocked you sure you don't irrigate it's like we don't there's nothing there um and for every 1% so if you increase the carbon content of your soil 1% per acre that acre will hold an additional 80 to 100,000 liters of moisture wow just by a 1% increase in carbon and that's cow poop it's cow poop and hay so when we bail graze and all that organic matter and residue goes into the soils they hold so much water when it does rain and also we have like a um a diversified and varied root crop a root base so we don't where there's no monocrops and we don't till the soils like we don't plow and we don't cultivate and we don't roll so all the native grasses that are there they're still there but we do no till seeding so we Scott adjusted this 19 74 mccormic seed drill or something um but it just cuts a we slice and then it drops the seed in so we cover we um cover crop with pea and barley and alala and vet and sunflowers and turnips and radishes so our fields are full of all kinds of life so it has a very strong root root base so when it does rain it holds on to it all so no what we and we haven't had rain we're in Canada so it rains but we only get something like here 12 inches a year which isn't a huge amount interesting yeah we get snow but I don't snow doesn't count to your rainfall so we get snow comes in like December Snow's normally gone by end of April it's gone and then it rains a wee bit and then it doesn't rain July August September like it's pretty dry but um so our soils are beautiful and our grass and our grazing is Lush and green yeah and everyone everyone around us is kind of burnt yeah yeah well it is interesting when you have when you have one Ranch like you doing it one way and then everyone else doing it a different way and you just have you have the clear differences in your pastures and that's what U you know Alan Savory showed I mean he had his his land in Zimbabwe it's just this lush jungle wonderful it's in the middle of the damn desert and and he is not sorry Liv action all the animals he runs through yeah exactly yeah and um you know my friend down in Australia who had the inoni um cattle is guy named uh woli so was Wy Farm w l Ki um for people have seen our video together and he um and he was saying the same thing so he he does a regenerative model and he sort of moves the animal around does all these sorts of things and he's able to run you know three four times the amount of animal on the the same amount of land as his neighbors Doc and it's just always green he doesn't have to buy feed and doesn't use doesn't have to use antibiotics or chemicals or sprays or all this saves tons of money and he able to get much more out of his land which is why why wouldn't you do that exactly and people say it's not people say you can't feed the world on regenerative agriculture but of course you can absolutely people are almost scared like we encourage people that try it try an acre try a past year experiment until you feel confident to kind of move it on a larger scale like I did I did a reel in the summer and we um we have a 20,000 acre range behind us so we open our gate and we push the cows up and they stay up in range for the summer and then they come back around about now and um and we went into range to check them and I took a video like I was sifting the soil through my hands like it was just dry and blowing away because it's just the range it's not like hours and then I just hopped over to the other side of the fence into our field and I couldn't lift any soil I could only rub rub it and it was wet and thick and dark and it's just it's like a meter two meters difference but because it had been bail graze and it was like functioning and active soils the difference is is astounding and that's where the whole 1% of carbon comes in it's crazy yeah is it able to sort of do that same principle on that that range land as well or you'd have to you'd have to sort of chop pop it up and fence it off and things like that i' have to fence it or I'd need a lot more cows like a lot more cattle we can see where they have been like when you're kind of riding the range and you're seeing all the regrowth H all that regrowth comes in bright green because of the nitrogen in their pee um so we can see the range the range this year has been thicker than previous years but it's not to the same extent as our pastur at home which are condensed because we run them through so like we probably put we probably move them in the spring when we're uh like three or four times a day like we'll put I don't know a hundred animals into two acres and let them eat and then we'll open like we use the Gallagher for fencing systems then we'll open up an end of a fence and they'll move in and then we'll move the fence around and um you want them to eat a third leave a third and stomp a third and then by the time they've rotated did all the way around again that first pasture is now longer Greener thicker and we'll push them through again so they can go through three or four times a season whereas if we hay we would only get one cut of hay we wouldn't get another cut whereas we can Grace five times yeah yeah right well that's the thing with with grasses is that when they get down to a certain length they grow like four times faster and so you grow it up all the way to the to the end it's it's just growing slower and slower and slower you cut that once and then you start the growth cycle over where if you keep ping it down obviously don't overgraze it it goes too low it's not great but get it down to that little sweet spot and then they grow four times as fast so I mean it makes perfect sense so how how much land you have how many how many animals can you run in and through the the different pastures with doing that model we have we have 520 Home Acres um and about 140 of it we graze actively rotate them through so we when we moved here to this Ranch it had not been farmed for like 50 years someone had had bought it they dropped a house in it like this and um but they never lived here it was like a holiday home and it was never it hadn't been farmed since I don't know the 60s or something like it's not so it's it was pretty F we had no worms in the soil we had no beetles or insect life like it was just dead um and we put so we have a really strong hot wire system and we have two it's very long so we have two parallel fence lines that are connected to Mains and then these Gallagher we kind of hook off it so we can split our long fin or our long pastures into lots of pastures M so our our herd when they're all home is probably I don't know 300 350 or so um and we can rot them through our 140 Acres quite a few times before they move into the our Eastern Area and then up into range okay yeah interesting constantly being moved and we um and we we plant so much dive Verity that it's not just grass they on it's brassas and sunflowers and pea and barley and yeah Sudan grass and all sorts yeah really good and you said you could move them multiple times a day even we do so if they eat it down we want to move them before they overg graze so if they like a cow's tongue wraps around the grass and pulls it out and it leaves the right length if that makes sense and if they eat it too far the root base will stop growing for I think it's something like I don't know why it's they say but they say 17 days and then once that's reestablished itself then the grass will start growing but if you eat it too short you shrink the root base so want the cows to pass over it once and then we'll move them but if we put them into too big an area they'll cherry pick and then they'll just eat the best pieces and they won't eat the things you want you don't like they won't eat the thistles or the dandelions which you want them to eat to keep them under weed control and then you move them so we want them it's like a balancing act they have to be in there long enough to eat what you want them to eat but not too long that they overg graze okay interesting so do you what do you think is a future for ranching do you think it's a model like this or what do you what do you think the direction that ranching needs to go in is I mean I'd love for all ranchers to go regenerative but with the lobbyists for a big a I don't think that would ever happen I mean if you've seen kiss the ground I think one of the statistics in that is that if every farmer in America Embrace regenerative agricultural practices they would save1 billion dollars annually wow so who would lose that1 billion dollars and annually I mean it's the same with I guess big Pharma and big whatever that big a is not going to let us all do this but with white oak pastures and polyface farms and things it's more it's becoming more more acceptable um it would be a great model because it's cheaper because you're not having to you don't need all the Manpower you don't need all the ma Machinery you don't need all the pesticides and definitely cheaper and easier it's not harder you just have to get your head over that you're not relying on science you're relying on nature yeah and and then sometimes that's the smartest thing you can do is is just let systems work on their own as opposed to trying to micromanage them and uh yeah and that that's the that's the old adage of um so sharp you'll cut yourself you you're just trying to figure out everything and you end up just working against yourself you know EX exactly yeah and the other the other um I think if more Farms did direct to Market and they more Farms like focus on a local market and by local I don't mean in town but local could mean if you're in the states all of the states like instead of importing beef from Australia and Argentina and Brazil whatever and China you're just using your local market and it would I I I I think that's people kind of get a block but if you support your local market you're strengthening your local economy and you're providing food SEC security that people are so used to just going to the store and buying whatever that they forget that it might not always be there that they take it for granted but supporting local I think is one of the best movements the farm to far Farm to fork and local movement I think would would solve so many issues and so many problems yeah I I definitely think so as well and and you also like you say you're just supporting your your local ranchers and you're supporting that business and you're supporting them and giving them more money because they're going direct to Consumer and they're not being gouged by the by the the the big agricultural Packers and things like that as well so if you had um if you had to talk to someone you know who was getting into ranching for the first time or or someone who's been established and as a ninth generation cattle rancher but sort of doing old model what what would be some tips for them to you know to succeed the way you guys have um in a direct Market environment yeah I mean how do how do you how would you I mean so someone who's never done that you know and they say okay well director Market sounds great but I have no idea how to establish that because I was taught how to you know do the Cal calf model and that's what I do um how do I do a direct Market model how do you build up that business what what are some tips for get people started in that um to build up build up the business like you you have to embrace social media like I know I know that's kind of like seems crazy but it's a necessary evil and it is not going away anytime soon like social media you can reach thousands and thousands of customers almost instantly and save yourself years and years of word of mouth and print advertising and you know but social media is is here to stay and you really have to embrace that um and then um one of the things that I teach so I I um I started a program to actually teach farmers and ranchers to do this because we need more farms and ranchers selling direct is identify your ideal customer that if you want to start doing this you got to price it right and your customer is not is not a high school dropout who wants to buy two $2 a pound ground from Walmart they're not your customer because that's never going to pay your bills that you need to create a customer whether that's an avatar or whether you're like identifying who you want to sell to and for me and this is who I speak to through my so socials is someone who's health conscious someone who's environmentally conscious someone who understands buying quality and doesn't you know like some of our customers they literally save up for months to buy a quarter of beef from us because they know that that is the best bang for their Buck like they're not you they're not the affluent people you might think they are they just understand that quality comes at a price so and then um family so I think there's five there's health conscious environmentally conscious um understands the benefits of cattle to the environment um quality over quantity and price and that's who my target so for anyone who wants to sell beef or anything direct whether it's lamb or pork or chicken whatever um know your ideal customer and know your worth that thinking that they won't pay you because they get it cheaper in Walmart is not the right mindset to have because they will pay you because nobody wants to eat from Walmart yeah it's easy but it's not good for you yeah well that's my advice perfect well I think that's good advice well Amy thank you so much uh for taking the time out I know it's late there and I appreciate you coming on and and speaking with us and and giving us an idea of what it's like getting into the ranching game and and how to hopefully fix it up and change it so thank you very much thank you it was a pleasure you're welcome and how do people find you where your socials and websites and things like that um so our Ranch page Instagram is um why kahore Ranch it's a bit of a mouthful it's w AI k i k a he eii why K it's um Marie my husband's AK kiwi nice and um the website you can get just by WK ranch.com perfect um and then my other entity is um sell beef direct just as it sounds cell beef D there you go well perfect well I'll put those up in the show notes and people can can check it out there and uh Amy thank you so much I really appreciate it thank you that was awesome hey guys thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say if you like it then please like And subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcast and if you're on YouTube then please hit that little bell and subscribe and that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out which should be every week if not more and if you could share this with your friends that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing thanks again guys to show is that that meat is bad you shouldn't eat meat you should eat fruits and you say when you eat more fruits and vegetables people automatically think you're eating that instead of meat right that's not the case you're eating it instead of processed garbage and if you're eating it instead of meat you will have poor health outcomes just like the akiu