Rugby Star Matt Dunning LOST 102lbs By Going On This Diet!

when you get these bodybuilders and they're doing these dirty bulks just tons of sugar tons of Co you have to be in a caloric Surplus what does a surplus means it means Surplus to demand it means that you don't need it to put on muscle then that goes into fat by definition when you're in a surplus especially when you're doing those carbohydrates you're putting down intramuscular fat you're putting in glycogen that's bringing in water weight so the muscles look bigger oh look at me I'm getting getting jacked putting all this weight and then you you go on to like lean protein and you cut out the carbs you cut out the fat which is what these guys do shrinks right down and they they lose all all this fat and they oh I lost all this m you know you didn't have it in the first place welcome to the plant-free MD podcast with Dr Anthony chaffy where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically hello everyone thank you for joining me for another episode of the plant-free MD podcast I'm your host Dr Anthony chaffy and today I have very special guest Mr Matt Dunning who is a former wabby rugby player and a recent convert to the con cornivore diet Matt thank you for coming on thanks for having me Dr chasy very excited yeah me too so for people haven't come across you and and what you're doing can you tell us a bit about yourself oh yeah um what I'm doing now or sort of what where it started yeah well both yeah just what you do now and everything like that bit about yourself yeah I guess um for people know I played professionally rug professional rugby from pretty much still school till I um could had to retire du to due to my body um played for sort of 15 years professionally in a just in Australia in the end um played for the warar little bit Western Force at the end and and the Wes for uh I think it was 45 tests um nice loved it Lov mafti just always wanted to play rugby was always a massive rugby uh loved it as a kid loved a lot of sports but uh my body shape really suited me for the front row in rugby from a very early age uh for those who don't know Rugby Union if you're if you're short and wide uh front row is a position for you so I uh I fell into it pretty early um and um yeah just loved it um and obviously through my Rugby career because I was I I played rugby at generally between about a generally about 119 to about 123 kilos so for someone who's I say I'm 6 foot but say 5 11 and a half whatever it is um you know obviously I was um rather large and I and for for someone looking at sort of professional athlete I would have looked more like a I guess a strong man or heavy power lifter I guess you I carried a little weight and and I needed two for the front row for those don't know rugby um you know the front of the scrum and loose head and tigh head prop you need to be you need to be big and you got to be strong so my my training virtually consists of um lifting weights obviously a lot of football training and um yeah it was uh I was I was quite Anor robic for my size um aerobic wasn't as good but I was very anerobic and um so I was able to sort of I was pretty much I ate fairly healthy um what I thought at the time was fairly healthy but I um I could eat a lot and I ate a lot so the amount of calories I burned and and still started at that we I was I was eating a lot and um took a lot of C drink a lot of caffeine as well and and different other you know painkillers and all all the things that go along with that and you know obviously um could obviously enjoy a drink too that at that weight cuz you know you didn't have to worry about weight so I I enjoyed my Rugby and um yeah loved it it was a great career and um I finished rugby uh sort of from a shoulder Recon um but I had a really bad ankles well so I was sort of limited to what I could do and I um stopped playing rugby and started working and obviously wasn't training and was still eating and drinking and um I probably lost about sorry I'll say this other way around I prob I went to about 130 kilos by um and but also probably lost about 10 kilos of muscle mass if that makes you know so i' lost a lot of muscle mass too so I was I was I was significantly overweight um just through lifestyle you know you you stop training and playing and there's no reason not to have a beer you don't have to run um so I got quite heavy and I filled in for a local rugby league team obviously rugby league wasn't my sport but I filled in for a local rugby league team and and um uh it lower level just fun I was after my shoulder healed from my Recon after retired and they took a photo of me and they put it up in the the local pub saying how good was it a former wabby played for the baral Wes rugby league and I uh I looked at the photo and it was just it just you know those real light bulb moments that if that's two years after retirement and I look like that um I also had a photo that I didn't I saw soon after that I didn't realize at the time a photo when I I mced the Force awards night a couple years after being retired and it was just a horrific photo like I was horrific um so I you know it was like a light bulb moment it was you know August 13 and I um someone messaged me about some and I won't say the name of it because I'm I'm very respectful for this program that I did I lost a lot of weight and I I don't to be critical of it because it in some way saved my life to lose as much weight as I did by doing it um I'll just talk about it being a really caloric deficit diet you know it was you know a couple of shakes a day one meal and then I virtually fasted two days in a row um for six days out of a four week 28 day cycle so was I was probably averaging not about calories but I was probably averaging about 300 calories a day which is for me was a massive deficit where i' come from so you know I lost 42 kilos in eight or nine months you know yeah probably n months I think it was so it was it it was massive for me to lose weight that way um and um yeah I thought I'd found the answer and I thought you know that's you know that's my life after football cuz you know seeing a photo of yourself so big you know at 34 um or 35 it was um you know it's a long way to go that keeps going the way it was going I wasn't going to see much longer so I sort of made some changes and it made some changes in that time too from when I lost the weight the whole thing about losing weight initially was I uh I didn't want to stop drinking and I didn't want to have to train you know after training that much I was sort of a bit over it but it was funny as I started the weight coming off and I started feeling better about myself I started training and started getting into some you know some boxing and stuff so you sort of get the get the bug again and I I actually started running again I hadn't run at all because of my ankle I I um had a really bad ankle it although that didn't end my career it was probably the reason why I was done I had ankle Fusion since um and you know and then I all of a sudden I was going through some stuff personally thought maybe just have a break off alcohol and see what happens with this and I you know and I lost even more weight and yeah and uh then met my now wife and um we've been together ever since and um yeah so it's just been a bit of a journey but the problem with that that way to lose weight although it was effective it just wasn't you know like the more and more I got into work and the better I got into my career um it became a lot more I guess you know it was more challenging mentally for my for me like I had know I was dealing with spreadsheet you know reading a lot of uh leces I'm in property you know and and for me it was pretty complex matters and you know long calls with lawyers and people well a lot smarter than me anyway so I had to sort of be in that that field and fasting just wasn't it wasn't working like it used to like I could fast for two days and I could physically perform okay but mentally I struggled um when it became you often I'd get you know my eyes would get dilated and I love fasting I still do it now and then now I've got some other stories about fasting it goes even more but anyway I just started doing that and I just figured you know I sort of slowly got out of it and sort of I sort of started going up in weight not it's all about weight but I just started not be to maintain it and tried VE for a while and ve just became vegetarian with sugar and processed foods and Diet Coke so it wasn't even real ve I was I guess it was just you know I was really poor and cutting a long story short sorry about this but I um you know kind long story short I um you know I um I also in that time after the weight starting I I tried some juice fast and some water fast long longer fasting but the same sort of issues came up and and then Co hit and we all know how fun Co was and by August 21 I was yeah I was back to about 113 kilos and I was sort of I sort of got a bit depressed in Co probably not depressed the wrong word I just got bit flat like was just like you know when I wasn't allow to go play golf my golf course that's when it really hit you know when they took golf off me cuz I couldn't well my golf course was outside the 10 the council 10 radius whatever it was and I you know it just was just flat you know so I um yeah I was 113 I went n this is like I've got to fix this like this this is this again so I went and did a 76 day juice fast just a juice and then of course got back down to 992 kilos and you know it works of course you're having not many calories and I got down to 92 by October and that that year 21 and and thought okay now just got to find a way to maintain it and um unfortunately obviously after Christmas I went back to eating you know a bit better but I was sort of 103 kilos my weight sort of just yo-yoed halfway back and I'm going how's this going to work you know what am I going to do I can't did this forever I was I was really flat like I was just going I want to be have a I had kids at this stage too so you know kids make life harder with eating cuz you've got to prepare and you know you're cooking their lunches or cooking their food and you just snack more it just you know I'm a bit of an All or Nothing person as you probably already worked out in the first five minutes but um I just you know I didn't know much about it and I was just I was really depressed and my wife started sort of a it was a sort of a keto diet it was sort of a way of sort of doing more that way and then I sort of I I don't read a lot but I listen a lot uh and I really listened to things and I started um listening to sort of ketogenic podcasts and YouTube made YouTube I'm not that near man of YouTube and I just saw this this looked like I loved hearing about not counting calories and sort of just doing things the right way and I was really skeptical to be honest but I I started doing it and and I wanted to lose some weight because I was about to have an ankle fusion and an ankle Fusion's probably well aware it's a pretty serious operation some of my age and um I wanted to be as light as I could and I did keto and you know I know it's not all about weight but it paints a picture of my lifestyle more than that I'm not trying to make it about weight um and I sort of got you know after my surgery I lost a few more kilos and I was back to 93 and I was very lame cuz I wasn't lifting or anything and you know I sort of just went my Merry way with keto loved it um I guess it was a dirty keto because you know I was I was having coffee and and having a lot of uh of and diet soft drinks you know I was I was a big I drank a lot of Diet Coke over the years especially when playing years I was um yeah some some times in my life I was probably drinking six or seven liters of stuff a day which is pretty makes makes me pretty sick these days but anyway yeah it's it's what it is right and um yeah and I love keto and I I got into it and um you know I did it for like probably about 168 months and and I was very lucky with the keeto because I met someone who you know I I I started keto in in early 22 and I and I and I don't know if it was keto flu I've heard stuff about keto flu and detox and and I agree with both I don't I don't know I'm not a doctor I'm just I'm an application guy I'm not a I'm not a I'm not a scholar but um you know I was really flat and I was feeling like absolute uh [ __ ] one day and I rang my wife and I said I don't what's wrong I'm depressed you know she has well have a banana like so I had half a banana and I said um ah it's I'm fine now it doesn't work any I just so happened to meet a guy called Alex McDonald who you know and um massive uh ketogenic and I thought it was ketogenic then but he was actually carnivore as well he just didn't wasn't too pushy on the carnivore because he was knew and um he said are you how much fat are you having how much salt are you having I said oh I haven't really looked at that Guess m it doesn't work if you don't have fat it's not high protein low car he said you know as you know so I did that and you know I had some challenges initially with him matter of fact cuz I'd start feeling a bit ccken I couldn't need not but that all happened I got used to it and got better and better and um yeah and it was just I just Ram with it from there and it just sort of progressed I sort of got to August 23 and um and I um I got more and more interested and started listening to your podcast in your YouTube clips Dr Shan Baka is Baker or Baka Baker Baker think it is yeah yeah sorry my my apologies here but and I just like I listened to people like um I was really interested when I listen to Jordan Peterson about his experience from from the from the the carnival like someone who had no background off off his daughter um I'll get this wrong I'm the worst with names but Michaela I think it was or MAA yeah and had her experience with um with obviously that being a really good uh I guess a Elimination Diet um and I thought I I'll try carnivore and obviously I was wary at first I was like I'm going to die like you can't just eat meat you need veggies and all this stuff I'm like is it going to work but I trusted Alex like cuz he sent me some stuff I remember when he said to me he goes we're at we played golf and he said do you guys really want to talk about keto I said yeah I'm asking you he said no no I'm really into this stuff so if you if you ask me I'll I'll tell you I said no no I'm Ken so I was so lucky to have him to sort of talk me through it and um yeah I went to of carnival still a dirty Carnival I was still having these really low really low low carb um protein bars um Massi ones and I was having yeah I was having the occasional um Diet Coke and often a bit too much and I was having um coffee and um but you know I felt great my energy was awesome and um you know I got rid of the bars um I sort of sort of talked to people about the bars and the and the and the and the and the sort of diet soft drinks and said um [Music] um is that like said is that going to trick me to raise insulin is that going to trick me to think it's sugar and Alex was really good he said maybe maybe not he said you have to do a test to see it and you could get a thing but he goes it could it could stuff around with your with your hunger and and how you you were and I said that makes sense that really made sense because often I love the fact I love the fact that for the first time in my life for someone who you know is an ex I'm extreme to say the least I'll eat as much like a labrador a certain extents I'll eat as much as you let me eat but to hear that once when the meat stops tasting good you full was like it was like a revelation because I've never had that feeling before so I was able to do it and I noticed when I dropped the bars and the and the soft drink um I was able to I was actually able to see that better and um yeah so I just sort of it sort of went and then I was I started training I started the same thing happened I started doing Carnival and I said and I obviously I wanted to see how I thought it'd be really interesting to see how hypertrophy training will work with Carnival like my training and and that so I got into training again um and I've been pretty into it since probably um yeah oh at least since October last year and I got into training and listened to more and listened to more and I've gone from and up until the end of the year I was drinking I was off the soft drink but I was probably drinking uh eight triple shots of coffee a day prob I was running on caffeine you know no sleep caffeine and just running on that and I got off caffeine on the late December between nth of December cuz the big thing about that was when I heard I think it might have been your podcast about or my wife might have told me because she was doing your program about um coffee in the muscle soreness and I want to see if that's true and yeah it was so I've uh so I'm LIF like it's funny I I I've I've extended myself you know pretty hard my lifting I listen to Everything I listen to what an he lifted you know five five um five uh exercises for each body part three times a week now there's a reason why he could do that but I thought another guy I listen to called um he I think he's natural bodybuild I believe he is there always people say that but he's a guy called Joel kellet he he's a really guy to listen to and um from both a training point of view and he's also no processed foods and he's pretty much keto there might be a little bit I don't know but anyway he um I saw what he did and he's lifting and I I sort of started pushing it and from a muscle point of view I I just didn't get sore like I didn't have the second day soreness I didn't have that look I still have when I lift the load too much I still have my got a bad left elbow um that flares up I got to get off the pressing for a bit um and it's interesting you know like my my my my physique has just changed totally by you know I haven't weighed myself since probably and that's the other thing too like you saw I was weighing myself for 10 years like I was it was living on a weight I was living daily weight the best thing my did is my young kids broke my scale so and I didn't I just didn't want to get that so I broke it so I stopped weighing myself and just worried about training and just you know and yeah it's been it's been amazing the I just really interested and I'm sort of interested now it's almost become a thing as how fit how how how fit can I get by just you know the carnival lifestyle which and my Carnival is probably 90% beef water and salt and then 10% other animals like or cheese or stuff like that so that's what I'm seeing at the moment and yeah I just been a massive fan of it and just uh enjoying the carnival lost yeah nice hope that wasn't too long I just tried to no that was great so you now that you've been doing carnal you've been doing carnal for about a year now is that right yeah probably since a yeah not quite yeah not not quite yeah you right yeah yeah and so you know how have you found uh the lifting you you've been sort of getting more into to the muscle hypertrophy side of things you know you're you know you're away from your Professional Day some people would say when we get into to middle age that we're you're not going to put on muscle it's not going to be as easy how are you finding uh strength gain and muscle gain uh with this approach hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and and you want nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option so I like this product not because it's just your meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25% off total all right thanks guys yeah well the strength guy um happen you know it's like anything you start lifting again you see instant results so I hav of lifted a lot I've I actually thought my elbow was a limiting factor but it actually I've actually found out I was doing a lot of circuit weights like longting and the problem with the way I lifted a lot was I was I wasn't training to fa for T failure I was traing training to fatigue so you weren't actually getting that so I'm a massive advocate in training to failure but train to failure under form I'm massive advocate of that I think I think that's where that that's the secret obviously I keep it in sort of that 12 to8 range or 15 to8 range just so I don't because I'm I'm extreme and I'll push myself so I feel that if I went lower than eight I will start lifting I'll injure myself like the form will go so that's where I've sort of gone and um yeah it's like I've got to the St now with Carnival occasionally think the other week I tried a a two-day fast CU I wanted to sort of lose a bit more weight quicker I feel like not that a plate but it's just the weight the body fat when I don't mean weight I mean body fat now I don't that but the body fat just slowed up a bit now I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or that's just it's natural but I definitely am still losing body fat and putting on muscle definitely there's no question there and me just being a bit impatient and that it's like and excited by it I just want to see what like it's I guess for me like it's not about being looking like a bodybuilder or doing that it's just I've just got really excited by Carnival because like I cop a lot of flack about it like and I'm not the kind of BL who is backwards in coming forward so especially the family members and people who know me I I antagonize and I probably I don't articulate the argument like like yourself or other people can I just I just say m i just told my brother plants are killing us you know that and I just laugh and walk off you know I just drop them M and I do that sort of stuff but um yeah s you know and so and it's almost like people are sort of having to go at you and sort of judging what you're doing and I'm not judging what they're doing um sort of makes you say well let's all right let's see what I can do and you know it's sort of funny I had one person start saying you know you're going to give yourself a heart attack you that people hassle me about have you done your Bloods I said I don't need to do my Bloods I said I know I've listened to people who I believe and I I trust and I I know I know what my Bloods will be like it's just you know I probably should get it done just for the sake of people but I um it's funny like the people who say stuff to me I said I said to one person the day I said if I criticized you because you were 20 kilos overweight and you were eating [ __ ] I would be rude but it's okay for you to criticize me about looking good and eating what I'm eating and they didn't like that very much was like you know what I mean it's just sort of so I've sort of got to that stage now I'm look I'm I'm look I probably am pretty sensitive but I don't show it but at the end of the day I'm just I just find it frustrating when and look I've always been an application guy like I'm always been very good if you give me something a program I can do it and I and I and I've always liked doing stuff some people love to be in a community when they train they love f45 they love CrossFit I like training I love training on my own just getting in and get done it's almost it's a bit of that rugby thing where I feel like when I train on my own if if I look St if I train to fatigue and drop a weight or I I I sort of can't go any further no one can see that I've you know I can sort of train them my limitations the opposite of what some people do so um yeah and I always thought I was pretty much like before I was sort of getting into especially carnivore and Kido I thought I was one of those people who said there's nothing new Under the Sun you know it's just application it is what it is just do it and you'll lose weight and that's why it was sort of hard with this caloric deficit way of losing weight and fit and you know whenever I played football so especially in season because we don't lose a lot of Weights if I did like a if I start my bench press started improving in season I'd that means I'm putting on weight cuz pretty much if I got stronger in season that means I put weight on um and it was sort of a balancing act in season so um no um yeah no but I've everything that I've heard from Carnival I've tried um so I've sort of lived myself and I believe it now because obviously I've lived it and it's just um yeah I'm I'm a massive fan of it obviously it's hard to be vocal though because it's almost like it's uh people just don't want to hear it and they just think you're stupid and you know I think um yeah it's interesting yeah and I love what I love hearing what you said said I there's nothing new Under the Sun but now this is making you more inquisitive about a lot of things like you know all the stuff you talk about about um you know the the cereal companies all the you know the the fiber all those things you talk about and you can you expl it better than me and they're the reason why we eat the way we eat not because it's correct it's just and so it sort of made me sort of second guess a lot of things and and be a bit more inquisitive everything but yeah it's it's it's it's it's it's really um yeah I find that yeah at times I get a bit flattened sort of I can't believe that a whole basis of our nutrition and our food has been based on and and I know there capitalism I'm not I'm not I'm all for capitalism but I didn't think that a whole Foundation of what's keeping like as you say the effectively kill billions and billions of people by telling them what's good to eat and yeah I sort of yeah it's sort of you know I just uh do my own thing now without you know it's tough with the I got kids now and my wife's you know trying to do Carnival and she she loves it but she she finds it the application sometimes bit challenging like a lot of people because eating the amount of food and the fat and it's hard with kids like how much cuz kids they still want sugar and that so I'm I'm not making the kids go Carnival and but yeah it's um yeah it's sort of my journey with carnivore and yeah yeah well it's the thing you know it's you know these companies getting in and and infiltrating the guidelines you know that's that's a private company but they're not doing what a private company is supposed to do they're they're getting involved in the in the government side of things and they're pushing the stuff out there so that's sort of corporate cature there almost fascism you know that marriage between the the you know private Enterprise and government where they're buying off politicians and and help you know sort of they're each rubbing each other's back and the government is putting them into a position to succeed whereas um you know there there would be so they're not beholden to the market forces and the the guidelines being corrupted and the policies being corrupted by these people that's that's the big problem it's not that they want to sell cereal they want to sell cereal and people want to buy it go for it the problem I have is that they're putting out information and paying people off put in the guidelines that cereal is really good for you and this thing that we've been eating since humans have been humans is not good for you somehow you know even though that that doesn't work for any other creature on earth and um you know it's that that's that's what bothers me and so that's the thing you know they have they have a huge marketing budget they make trillions of dollars a year as a as a as an industry and they have billions of dollars to flash around and splash around on on marketing and one of those marketing tools is these nutritional studies and paying off people at The Who and inserting their people in different areas and having that you know that uh that revolving door people in the FDA and the USDA and uh as soon as you get done you're you're a board member at fizer or Kelloggs or something like that and you're just all of a sudden you're just m minted you know and um that sort of corruption is the is what I have a problem with and so you know we just need to understand that if if the government didn't have so much power there wouldn't be any anything to sell they wouldn't have any any favors to sell you you know and and it would just they would just have to be out there and you know they can still put out these studies and that's a problem too because you can always find a study that says that you know Corn Flakes and cocacola is uh good for you uh but that's because they're paid for by Coca-Cola and Kelloggs right and so that doesn't actually tell you anything but because they're putting out the vast majority of these studies or paying people to do the studies and not even and not revealing that who's funding it which is you know illegal but they do it um you know that's that's a big problem as well so you know it's just a matter of sort of fighting back and just saying like well no that's not what that's not what is actually happening that may be what some study says but the stud's crap and you're crap for for p ping it out there uh knowing better than that um but yeah that marriage that marriage point would you sum that up perfect marriage between business government and and even the media now if all three of them get that that if that marriage happens that corruption that that's that is so powerful and yeah it's obviously been happening a long time but I feel like more and more today that three-way um getting together and presenting a view that they really they all work together they can do better for what they want to achieve is just it's hard to beaten and people's people just believe what they're told and not not putting putting them down always exactly the same like as you spoke about Kellogg cornflakes and weat PS I lived on wheat picks I thought I was eating healthy by eating like I ate 18 wheat picks with milk and sugar and like M at the Australian of sport they have like color codes for the for the food and and um and wheat piix was like green like a top color like that was that was a really good choice like there was no way you would have bacon and eggs um for um like it was just it was just so much like it was white bread there like I lived on pasta white bread um Subway I was eating Subway was a good choice I was having yeah when I was playing football like it would be it would be a lot I generally have two two and a half foot or way and occasionally I'd have three like I was eating like so much and thinking that Subway weat picks were good choices and and yeah and it wasn't because it was because I was told and I just believed what I was told yeah it was amazing you know they had that color coordination with the toughs came out with a with a nutrition CH and they sent this out to us in in the hospital so it came to our work emails and so these were like these were actual official sort of guidelines that they were trying to adopt and uh and they actually had like these these examples like green big bar and and then yellow you know Green was just eat as much as you want as much as you want whenever you want everything's fine yellow was you know eat in moderation red you know eat rarely or avoid all the meat was in the red right ground beef eggs were in the red U all the cereal and garbage was in the the green and the yellow and watermelon was 100 that had a score of 100 out of 100 so apparently that's the perfect food for human beings that's just if you just ate watermelon the rest of your life that would be perfect apparently and according to this and uh then canned peaches was in second place with 98 out of 100 points c not fresh peaches canned peaches in syrup right so that makes sense and then um Frosted Flakes was ranked higher than regular cornflakes the only difference is they added sugar right and so apparently the frosted sugar made that a healthier choice somehow and uh honeynut Cheerios were above normal Cheerios it's like what is wrong with you people um I mean that that's that's just like they're just they're just trying to mess with us at this point and just see what they can get away with like watch this put you know Frosted Flakes above normal normal Corn Flakes like see these idiots they they they'll buy it they'll believe anything we say you know and and people did you know you had these people you know these influencers going out online saying like oh well that's not you guys are misunderstanding like well meets in red but you know all these things are in green but that that that's different you can't compare in between different categories so that was red for the meat options but there' be green meat options or something like that it's like well no actually you can compare because green says e eat as much as you want red says don't eat ever and it's saying eat as much watermelon canned peaches and frosted flakes as you want and never eat eggs and beef so you're dumb right and um and and I swear these guys are just shills like a lot of these guys being actually caught out because they they've been paid to make a lot of these defense defensive sort of videos for those nutritional guide um recommendations or aspartame that was a big one that people people got caught on seed oils as well um and that these people just being paid paying paid to do this now you don't know that all of them are but people get called caught out for being paid for this without actually announcing that they're being paid for having a little blurb in there paid for by soand so collaboration with you know some sort of sugar company or whatever and so some of these people that got caught out on that you know that that got published out and so you have to sort of Wonder there are a lot of people that are doing this they all did at the same time there just just waves of people coming out in support of of the tough guidelines of aspartame when the U who said that it was a carcinogen um and then and then FDA was like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa you you can't say that because they're just getting there corporate overlords pulling their strings to tell them to make an official statement and uh and then the seed oils as well you get all these people exact same time just floods of people nutritionists and doctors and influencers saying well well no everything's everything's fine everything there's nothing to see here everything's fine but they're all doing at the same time you know so you just you you have to you have to wonder if they're getting paid I have to actually I think you you have to assume that they're getting paid until you know proven otherwise that that's that's what you do what's what's the motive other than that that's it you know what what are you gain out of this you know and um and you know maybe someone actually believes that Aspartame is fine you know that's fine but a lot of people got caught out for lying about it and or lying about it being just a of their own valtion that they made these videos and they got they got in trouble for that and how no no I was just saying and so you know and since other people like just everybody at the same time there were all these people being paid for it and a lot of people weren't talking saying they were getting paid for it you just sort of have to assume that everybody talking about it at that time was was being paid to I just love and and you say it on you see it obviously but you see it on sort of the Facebook memes when you see it says uh it's a photo of a person and I won't go into detail but the person doesn't look very fit and they're old and they look unfit and they say you should need eggs and there's a picture of a ripped uh uh you know 50-year-old man saying as many eggs as you want and soort like who are you going to listen to like yeah I'm the amount of people who who are in charge of sort of telling us what we should eat um and more than that but what we should eat what we should consume and they are so aggressive and so hostile to the person who's saying the other like there so many things you see on Facebook when you see someone who's um you know thinks Carnival is dangerous and they look so unhealthy yet they're telling this guy who's 60 who looks 40 and is fitter than anyone I know that he's wrong and he's killing people and and they're yelling they're getting so emotional about it yet the guy who's doing that saying well you you eat whatever you want I'm just saying you what I know is true for me and what I believe is true you know it it's it I I don't know why and there a lot of subjects but food especially people are really it's like if you tell them what you think's healthy for you they take that as criticism to what they're doing and I I don't get it like um and I got a lot of people in my life who who who aren't who aren't Negative they they you know they don't believe it but they say well look it must be working look at you know you're looking fit you're looking as healthy I've got a lot of comments lately that so over my journey people have obviously seen me go a lot of close friends and a lot of people often when I lost a lot of white you're too skinny you look too skinny and I I always said that they just being you know they just know me as being the big joval but because I have friends who make fun of me I'll tell you this funny story he's a guy actually good M mind Phil wall he he says I'm the first professional athlete to lose weight get fit and stop drinking after they retired he says that and um and and they're saying but now like since I've done Carnival and yes I am lifting weights it says it's the best you've looked since you've lost weight because you don't look you not that I look I never look gone I'm still like I'm still 886 like I'm I'm not I'm not the V unless I yeah i' never look gone you know I still carry you know I still a naturally chubby guy but um they just said you look so much better and that has to be down the only things that I've done is is carnivore and and by lifting and yeah it's it's it's good to hear that and the and and the fact that I'm not weighing myself anymore I think that's so much more it's such a better like it wasn't fun living by the scale every morning you know I was dictated how I felt by scale so it's it's good to be able just to have and I don't have to worry about how much I eat I just eat when I'm hungry and and and I eat a lot of meat like I a lot of meat like if you know if I'm training um and I know some people don't eat in the morning they just eat two meals or one meal a day um I'll have 3 800 gram steaks a day easily easily like that's and I might even grab a bit of cheese if I'm hungry now I do notice I need more when the days I train and I do notice that um but it's sort of like like it's like and I and I love and I've got into it more the listening to the the hypertrophy and I guess the bodybuilding stuff it's all about bulking and cutting you know bulking and cutting but I feel I'm only saying this because I not I'm not a bodybuilder but it's like I've got something now where I can eat so much red meat I put on muscle mass and I don't put on it's not like I'm putting on fat as well and then I got to cut down I just it's like I can just go through my day and I'll just look my weight loss my fat loss is probably a bit slow but that's perfect you know it's just I saw Alex I don't know if he told you but Alex did a McDonald did this thing where he um he measured all his calories and everything he did I don't know if he told you but he did all that and just as a I've got it but I don't misquote him but he he he he up his claric intake immensely immensely and he went from like over like three or four months he put on like two kilos he did dexas and everything but he hardly put any weight and he upped it by so much and he didn't change his phys but he just he only did it just to show an exercise that you know if if if I was eating 4,000 calories a day and I know it's not about calories but it's it's sort of least a number of my old diet I I'd have to be 110 kilos I'd have to be you know what I mean and unhealthy and tired and living on caffeine to to to to stay up and um yeah it's it's I was I was I was just I just thought so much that the only way to keep my we under CW was caloric deficit and I found out that it's not the case and and I still listen to plenty of respected personal trainers and exercise theologists who still believe that and these guys are really smart guys like I it's like I listen to someone talk about training or or health and I and I listen to their exercise or listen to their Fitness training but then if they go and talk about macros of carbs I just I just don't want to hear it like it's just I know that's not true for me you know it's just like but the and that's the other thing I have learned over the last 10 years is that I I can I can take what I want and leave the rest so just because someone says something one part that I don't like doesn't mean everything they say says wrong that's been that's been a that's been unbelievable like if I heard someone say something stupid once I just turn off if I heard one thing I didn't was stupid I just disagreed with because I wouldn't listen to what they got to say but now I don't know why but I've got the ability now to say I love what you say about training ah I'll that's fine for you Carnival what works away yeah yeah I uh I do that as well you know especially with with carnivore because I you know I've sort of had to piece this all together before there were you know carnivore gurus and influencers and things like that so I I sort of figuring this all out for myself and reading studies and um you know making applications you know like all the all the studies on ketogenic diets they're all they're all animal based you know because a ketogenic diet is you you get rid of carbohydrates but then you have to replace it with fat and protein where does that fat and protein come from you you could technically do that from a vegetarian standpoint where you have to basically drink canola oil and take tons of supplements and things like that it's just it's just not feasible and so they don't you know all those studies actually replace carbohydrates with animal fat and protein so they replace it with fatty meat and you know maybe coconut oil and different things like that but it's meat they replace it with meat and some veggies whatever people want to eat that's what a carnivore diet is it's an animal-based ketogenic diet and so those animal-based ketogenic diets showing massive improvements in people's Health that's applicable that absolutely applicable to a cornivore diet it's it's an animal-based ketogenic diet that's what we're studying here so looking at things like that and then looking at other people uh Dr Robert lustig I really liked his work on uh fructose um you know he's not a carnivore that's fine he doesn't need to be but I really like his work on fructose and that adds to the adds a piece to the puzzle you know because that's really toxic that's really harmful that's it's causing addiction and it's damaging your body in ways that you know are similar to alcohol and so that's you know I take all those little sorts of things and add them together and people say like well why do you like this guy because you know he says this other stuff it's like yeah that's that's fine I don't I don't agree with him on those things you know but he does really good like these things that he's saying here on fructose is that's does really good work and so you know that's what I'm taking from him you know and I'm taking this from here and this from here put all this these pieces together to make this big collage of of ideas that all point to humans being carnivore and doing best on that I've got a funny story um it's quite it's quite interesting so when I was doing the juice fast the 76 day juice fast so I I had so I was you know had a lifestyle of you know overindulgence alcohol food for years and I never got Gap I'd never had Gap never and everyone tells you it's meat it's Seafood whatever but never got it and if anyone was get G it was going to be me the way I lived My Lifestyle overeating like it was just you know I still had ice cream like I had everything um so I did I did the 96 7 day juice fast and um I started obviously a lot of juice a lot of sugar and it was freshly squeezed juice it wasn't like it was like like I C it cabala juice carrot apple beetro apple uh lemon and apple but I but I didn't have the last Apple so it's a long story someone else named it and I went with it anyway so I had that I was having like a later and a half a day anyway it was sort of getting to the stage I was getting s of go oh I might have a frosty fruit so then I started having those Frosty fruit ice blocks as well so I was you know but still losing weight cuz I frost I was having sort of six or seven of them a day I got Gout yeah gout never had it before I got G and I thought my foot was broken it was the worst ever and so I've never touched the frosty fruit again I don't know if it was the frosty fruit of the juice fast who knows but I put it down to that I didn't have the frosty fruits which I imagine might have a bit of fruit toast I I stopped having that and I've never had G since and now I'm eating some days I probably have close to 3 kilos probably more like two and a half whatever but no no G like it's gone like it's it's funny how yeah how the the rhetoric is so it's just not right that's that's you know it's just we believe so many things in this space that's not true you know for me any and I'm not first I appreciate say that I don't claim to be a doctor I don't even claim to be particularly very smart you know a smart guy I just I've just really enjoyed the experience and this is this is true for me you know whether you want to argue with I'm right or wrong I just say well it's true for me this is what's I'm that's probably the only thing I'm close to being expert on and that's me yeah yeah well but it's a good point you know because it doesn't matter what studies say it doesn't matter what experts say what matters is what happens to your body in real life in real time and so say oh you're going to get gout you're going to get this and yet you're not and you don't and so whatever they say doesn't doesn't matter it's not applicable to you whatever's whatever's happening there it's um you know it's it's not applicable to you and everyone says well you're going to get gout doing all this and yet we have like millions of people doing this and no one's getting gout right well not no one but like the vast majority of people aren't there's some people that have had gout and suffered with gout and then they sort of get like a flare up or two you know as they go and then it goes away and it never comes back also people don't realize there are five causes of gal we only talk about the one with yasid crystals but there's there's four others and we don't tell that we now we're calling those pseudo gout and real gout is your acid but exact same presentation you have this horrible pain in your foot or ankle or joint of some description and you go oh that's gout the only way to diagnose that is by sticking a needle in the joint and and aspirating it out and seeing what what's in there and if there's U acid crystals okay that's uric acid gout but there could be oxalates in there that's another form of gout that people don't don't realize that comes from plant toxins these stupid plant yeah and so people don't don't really oh I got Gout well was it gout from uric acid crystals or was it from oxalates you know that you were either doing keto and you having a whole bunch of high oxalate vegetables or were you you know now that you've dumped all this out you know you've gotten all real stuff you're sort of dumping and excreting all this these oxalates I I I've see people sometimes they get gout and then they get kidney stones and they're calcium oxalate Stones it's like well that sort of tells me it's not uric acid gout it's almost certainly oxalate G gout right and um no one no one do does that though no one doesn't aspirate because it's bloody painful right you know it already hurts enough get once and that was that yeah it was bad yeah and and and imagine what you would have done if your doctor said he like hey can I can I stick this needle in your joint and uh and check it out he wouldn't go within a centimeter he wouldn't have go within 10 centimeters may' be buting him running away there's no way exactly yeah so you know it's just not going to happen so they don't they don't they don't waste their time but there there are five causes of gout and we just assume they're uric acid uric acid um you get these from from sugar from fructose from alcohol you can get them from purines generally from eating a lot of organs but you know these people aren't eating a bunch of organs you know they're eating they're eating just meat and and also when you when you get rid of all that other stuff you having having organs isn't going to cause isn't going to cause gout of any description so it's but you know the vast vast vast majority of people that do this and just come on to meet only they don't have this problem in fact that was that was a a treatment for gout since the 1800s was putting people on a pure red meat and water diet that was a cure for gout wow that's Dr J Salsbury writes about that in the 1800s and it was it was used for decades after him and um it just gets papered over gets papered over by all this this fraudulent uh study and research and dietitians you know I mean the the American nutrition and dietetics Association was founded by Lena Cooper who was a 7thday Adventist Church member who they're religiously anti- meat and so surprise surprise she was pushing a plant-based diet from the 1910s onward um and she wrote uh one if not the first one of the first um university textbooks on nutrition in 19 25 and uh that was plant-based right from the beginning and so that was that was part that was the University curriculum was this plant-based Dogma from these religious organizations who were trying to push this from a religious Viewpoint and you know why are we listening to this why are we still why are we still you know believing this oh well but that's that's what the nutritionists say well the nutritionists are fat and diabetic you know so like why why are you listening to them um I know I know nutritionists that that look at these sorts of things and look at these facts and they and they're just they're like yep that's complete crap one one lady said to me she was a a PhD candidate in um in nutrition and dietetics and she we we talked about all this stuff and went back and forth study for study back and forth and eventually like we were talking she just s sister sort of stunned and just said my entire education was a lie is just a complete lie like shown that you proven that it's just like it's just a complete lie and they were uh Uber plant-based at that point and as as they all are because you're learning this stuff go oh I'm going to be plant I'm going to do this I'm so smart I'm going to have the best nutrition and they were just you know they were sick and you know were taking tons of supplements that was that was one thing that that turned that sort of turned the tide for me they like well what supplements do you take and it really turned me back you know pull made me pull back because I was like I'm not on supplements what do you mean what do you mean what supplements am I on like well no you have to be on supplements everyone's on supplements but what supplements do you take I just like no no hold on like if you're eating your proper diet you should never have to take supplements and I don't I don't take supplements of any form and and and she took Tong and and it's like okay if if you're a nutritionist and you know what proper nutrition is for human beings why do you need supplements to fill the gaps if the primary if you know our if this diet that you're talking about is is the best diet for humans why is it deficient how can you how can you call a diet good if it's nutritionally deficient and that that really threw her and that really made her start thinking and eventually came through I had someone the this reinforc like I had someone C the other day and said um well Matt you're doing this carnivore but you you're taking supplements so it can't be good I said what what are you talking about he said yeah obviously taking supplements I said I don't take anything I have beef water salt and then you know 90% of time and I might have bacon and eggs bit of cheese now and then but you know chicken fish but pretty much stay and they were just Gob smacked they was possible for not to to be carnivore without taking said well where do you get vitamins I said look I said I'm I'm I'm not an expert on this but my understanding is I get all the vitamins I need from the meat and they said that's that's not true I said well that's for you to say I wish I was I wish I could retain a bit more of that and sort of go back at them a bit but i s like the people I believe the people I listen to that I trust you know listen to them but they won't listen like the amount of podcasts I've sent to these people of yourself and Dr sh Baka beger um and you know for for Mason and they just they don't listen they don't want to listen it's like they don't they want to say you're wrong but they don't want to listen to what you say mhm you have to listen to what they say because they come from a place of um I don't know what you call it Ivory Tower I don't know I don't know moral Authority yes that's that's perfect yeah so and and that were just Gob smack and and that's what you said like I don't need to take anything like and and if you ever see if you ever look into a guy called Joe Kell I spoke about before and he's I don't think he's full Carnival but he's he's no processed foods and he's meat and he's um he's definitely low low carbs to extent he I don't take anything don't take creatine I don't take anything I get everything I need from food and I train yeah and yeah I think he has a coffee one or two coffees a day something that's fine but it was just um and and that's why everyone believes he's he's on on on steroids and look I don't think he is people say but cuz they can't believe that you can look like that and be like that without they just because we've been lied to and what we've been told like every parameter of of Health Nutrition and training that I've sort of grown up with is as he said it's been flipped like you the the old saying used to be you can't be Arnold swartzenegger and Steve monetti at the same time you've heard that like it's a marathon runner and you have to get big and then you got to cut so it's the whole thing you can't do both well that's not true I I'm I'm doing it now I'm not going to look like I'm 45 year old man you know I don't want to look like that but I'm losing body fat and I'm putting on muscle and eating 4,000 calories a day that if I told someone that they would call me a liar they would say I am lying I'm I've got nothing to gain out of this I work in in in real estate on the ten side I'm a 10 Advocate I'm an advisor I don't do anything to this other than it's a lifestyle for me that I'm very passionate about that that's all it is like and then when I hear people say they say to me oh but the person you're listening to are they getting paid or they getting that what are you talking about the the people you're listening to are getting you know they're getting they're corrupt and getting paid and doing that yet you're saying about someone who helps people and might get money to cover cost to to do a like that's just it's just so ridiculous and they don't even get it like it's like oh the person you're listening to what's their motivation they're getting paid for it um so the person you're hearing information from it's just anyway got to be careful I'm not I'm not as good would I like yourself and people who are a bit more scientific they can stress their point without losing getting too over emotional about it like they get they lose their cool I get a bit I get a bit flustered by it and a bit that's why I don't get too hard in debate because I upset people yeah well you know it's um it is it is a bit hypocritical some people you know say it's like well you know you're saying this oh the big the big beef industry something like that like there there isn't any you know it's like it's a bunch of like individual farmers and ranchers they all sell their beef on an open market you know and um you know so and the these big food manufacturers they make far more money off of processed plant food that's where the margins are they make a massive amount of money on that and so it's um it that's that's that's what they like and they and then they make even more money you know off off the medicine that Pharmaceuticals that people have to buy to sort of keep them from falling apart completely after eating this high octane garbage um you know you're talking about how you you can put on muscle and lose fat at the same time it's 100% true and and for a long time people still say that that no that's impossible you have to put on fat and muscle and then you lose fat and muscle but you try to keep more muscle than you it's just like this is stupid you know this is I mean this is this is seriously this is this is basic biochemistry you know if you have if you eat carbohydrates that that's toxic to your body that high glucose is toxic to your body your body tries to detoxify it by lower by raising your insulin to lower that down insulin forces energy into different various cells and different tissues as well and this is how you get depositions in organs around your organs in your in your abdomen but also inside your organs you get deposition and you also get intramuscular deposition of fat you also get int in muscular deposition of glycogen glycogen pulls in water two molecules of water for one molecule of glycogen and you get fat um and so we see this in uh MRI I see this every time it's called myosteatosis you have fat inside the the muscle bodies and that's from carbohydrates and that's that we and we do this to animals we always wonder is like oh where does this come from it's like where does it come from in a cow like oh you grain feed them and they get this marbling you get that myosis so maybe that happens up no no no no you know and um you know and then you get like well what about this non-alcoholic fatty liver disease like oh what's happening we only see fatty liver disease in and alcoholics but now it's happening non-alcoholics oh what's happening uh how do you make it in a duck you know how do you make fua gr you stick a feeding tube down their throat pour grains down into their stomach right and that gives them fatty liver disease maybe that's happening enough n couldn't be couldn't not possible you know it's just like you know how St stupid do you have to be you know I mean how much in denial do you have to be that that the actual biological World actually applies to us and you know you do these things that apply to animals and you know they might apply to us as well dogs and cats you feed the meat they'll never get lupus they'll never get diabetes or cancer or any of or any of these other sorts of things right you give them kibble bunch of plant-based crap they get all those sorts of things right those are the same diseases we get those are the same diseases that that zoo animals get if you feed them kibble or if you feed them Cheetos or and this why they have signs of the zoo say don't feed the animals don't throw them your potato chips don't throw them the peanuts don't eat throw them the things that you're eating because it makes them sick what they get sick with they get the same damn things that we get have we figured this out yet right the food is causing the disease you eat the wrong thing your body gets deranged you give cats Cheetos and Captain Crunch they're going to get freaking lupus and cancer and diabetes right and same thing with us right why would we think it's anything different or you giving them you know the equivalent of of Cheetos and Captain Crunch which is basically their nasty ass kibble you know they're going to get sick right and the animals of the zoo get sick they get the same things we get myosteatosis cows get myosteatosis we get fatty liver ducks and geese gets fatty liver why do they get it when they're eating inappropriately and they're eating very specific things and then we saying no no that can't possibly be to us it is right there staring everybody in the face and and yet they're not they're not picking this up but when you get these bodybuilders and they're doing these dirty bulks and they're just having just tons of sugar tons of you have to be in a caloric Surplus what is a surplus means it means Surplus to demand it means that you don't need it to put on muscle then that goes into fat by definition so you're dumb like that's not putting on muscle you don't need a surplus by by definition you don't need a surplus to build muscle you need enough you need the right amount a surplus goes into fat right and so maybe the argument could say well maybe you don't know that you're quite meeting that unless you go a little bit above that maybe but you shouldn't be getting tanked up you shouldn't be getting fat as hell because you're far exceeding your your basic needs so when you're in a surplus especially when you're doing those carbohydrates you're putting down intramuscular fat you're putting in glycogen that's bringing in water weight so the muscles look bigger oh look at me I'm getting getting jacked putting all this weight and then you you go on to like lean protein and you cut out the carbs you cut out the fat which is what these guys do shrinks right down and they they lose all all this fat and they oh I lost all this m you know you didn't have it in the first place I've done Dex you can trick it you can trick a DEX by doing that yeah well that's it yeah I've tricked them I've done it I've heaps of carbs and I'm big and then you because it it takes water as muscle it's not right can't put on 5 kill of muscle in a day and you can almost do that to an indexa by by just having carbs and water it's so true Sor awesome yeah no but yeah you're exactly right and so you but you do an MRI and you'll see you'll see intramuscular fat you'll see that fatty deposition that myosis right and then you know I I I mentioned this on a on a post and uh you know in like the classic you know [ __ ] out there like Lane Norton was just like oh what is this it's just like dude you claim to have a degree in Biochemistry and you don't even know how insulin works like you need to give it back because you obviously cheated you know like this is like this is just you have a fake ass degree like I honestly don't I don't think he I don't know it it doesn't make sense to me that this guy has a degree in anything because he he doesn't know the first principles of biology and biochemistry but you know he's talking about oh how can that be true that's that's [ __ ] it's like it's basic biochemistry like this is just how that works and you know him not being a clinician you know I guess we can forgive him he doesn't look in MRIs you know so he doesn't see the myosis all the time but seeing is that he doesn't he should probably keep his mouth shut because he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about right and all these people saying that oh no no no you build this muscle and then you pull it down no it's not true it's not muscle in the first place you've never put on you put on some muscle but all that muscle that it looked like that's not muscle that's fat glycogen and water weight and then just goes away just as easily so now when you put on weight that's just lean body mass you're only putting on muscle and that's how the Golden Arrow bodybuilders used to do it cor 100% that's it and then it just went to this sort of Carby bulk sort of thing and and because people were just taking fistfuls of steroids they're like oh look at all these results I'm getting must be the carbs like really really maybe you know if you were do if you're eating the way that Ganda Vince Gonda and serge nbre were doing it before this mass mass mass uh abuse of steroids happened and they were getting freaking jacked you know then then you would have probably gotten even even better results be interesting that question for you that those bodybuilders have those the pot bellies the bubble guts is that because is that something to do with that too that's HGH well could be so you know a lot of times when they growth hormone their their organs actually expand Okay cool so they're just you know it's just like H it's like this HGH growth hormone gut and so yeah you can get that but at the same time you know if you're eating a lot of sugar and fructose you can get intraabdominal fat and that can sort of plump that out you generally see that in in the props you know power belly it was good for squ because it's that made you bit more stable yeah yeah exactly like you know and but it wouldn't be like a jiggly tummy it'd be just like it be Bode but it'd be hard yeah you know and i' see a lot of people like that that's yeah that's sort of that intraabdominal fat that's sort of pushing out the muscles you know um but yeah when you're when you're just just shredded and lean and you've just got that you know eight weeks or or like a you know five months pregnancy sort of belly you know that's that's often uh growth hormone yeah okay makes sense what you were saying before about the beef industry like how it's they're big and bad and they're pained this way and how they just I just so agree they just they just they keep their head down they're so petrified of being done by vegan people and by being criticized by the world or like they they cop it from everyone they just keep their head down and and go about their business of farming and they cop it from everyone and it's so unfair like like CU and that's the other CH I get about it it's like oh how can you just eat me it's too expensive I go no it's not not if you do it the way I do it and I'm really conscious I'm eating so much meat I have to be conscious on price and people say well you know doing I I'm lucky I know some people in De Meats who I buy my meat off so I can get like 60 85 kilos at once which you know I get um but I I buy Rum steak like it's I get it for like $11 a kilo so it's very affordable um you know I cut it up and because what I love about rump and it's a little bit chewy but I'm all right with that what I love about it is the fat is so well spread and I get a lot I get the right fat consistency with rump for sometimes I sometimes eat the Fat's a bit different and I I don't I still love it but I do that and I cut it up I freeze it and it lasts me you know however long and you know say I have 2 kilos a day that's 22 bucks a day to feed a grown man who's training 22 bucks a day when I was eating car having protein bars Diet Coke coffee I'd hit 20 I'd hit $22 before lunch this morning tea I'm at $22 you know before so it's not not affordable um and and what I do is and it's not for everyone maybe I'm a bit different but I I air fry my I don't know if it's good or bad but I air fry my um my steak sometimes because that I cut up and have cold the next day with salt and I hope that's right i' be interested to see if cooking an air fry is a problem or not compared to hot that'd be interesting but it's very convenient cuz I cook it and then cut it up and then take it to work the next day and eat it for lunch or and breakfast yeah yeah it's it it's true I mean I I remember um talking to someone you know back in you know 20 years ago literally 20 years ago and um and he was talking about how you know he was he was a big dude but he was talking about how he spent then in the 2000s in the early 2000s that he was spending $100 a week on protein bars just protein bars not the rest of his food right you know and you're spending that on steaks you know and you're getting perfect nutrition getting everything you need grown ass man who's who's you know lifting weights and uh and you know have full-time job and all these sorts of things this dude's a college kid just hanging out and you know just you know going to a couple classes and then lifting weights and he spent $100 a week just on on the protein bars 20 years ago right so double that today and and that's not all the other things that he's eating and so you know it's it's it's very affordable 90 90 gr Mass what's the name but the 90 gr protein bar seven bucks seven bucks so so seven bucks for 90 grams and I'm getting $11 even if it's $20 a kilo you can get rum steak in um in in warw worth for $1750 K now I'm not not saying it's grassfed but you know I really like what you say about gold and silver gold standard and silver I love that like it just because you can't have grassfed doesn't mean you don't do it yeah like sometimes I have gra finished and you know it's just it's affordable and and it's it's it's got I've got to we at both yes I'd love to just eat grass fit only but you know I I make I do what I have to do to make the rest of my life work and I'm not going to make my family suffer because I'm you know have to do this so um but yeah it's it's it it is like so it's just that simple it's mess like not 90 gr $7 a kilo even 7 20 even you know you can get lamb for $20 a kilo 20 $30 a kilo like it's and on that basis it's a lot more affordable as you said as as protein and I guess the argument is that if if you want to compare it to weight baks well gez that's um that's pretty bad comparison because I'm not I'm not putting that in my body anymore no and and wheat bcks I mean how much does that cost per kilo don't know I've had wheat B for long enough but yeah expensive be there as you said I I haven't bought we BS for so long now I wouldn't even know I pride myself and have never purchasing weat picks that's very yeah I think I've had a couple of them sometimes and I was ped and um you know years and years ago you know just had some out like a t- room or something I'll try these sorts of it was like it was like eating a sponge it was just like was like what the hell is this we only ate it because we thought it was so good for us yeah right like the taste like I know you know and it was I guess it was somewhat in those days affordable when you had my mom you just kids come home and just eat weat bigs some milk you know and I was having so much and I thought that was the good decision like never would I have thought when I was growing up baking an eggs for breakfast that was the wrong thing I was doing the wrong like oh you do it on Sundays but you can't have bon these like yeah it's just um yeah it's incredible and thank you so much for everything you do because without what you do and it's also good I I I I I listen a lot then I stop listening sometimes you know you listen a lot and you go through Page your life where you you know I'm listening to rugby league podcast or Rugby Union or I get into UFC you know YouTube does it takes me everywhere anyway sort of lose track and your mind's a funny thing right if you're not listening to all the time it's like you go to a service station go I'll bit hungry I I'll grab a protein bar and and it just start sneaking back you know that's always happened in my life just things sneak and then but if I consistently always sort of talk about it and listen to it it just reaffirms it no no I don't want to make that choice it's it's going to stuff it's going to stuff me up and and it's not like I enjoy the protein but it's just it's just about having food and just and often it's it's amazing how you know emotionally eating I I 100% identify with when I was in a carb diet like I would have most I would reach for food when I was you know pressure or stress or just had a feeling you know I I honestly that has gone away it I I and maybe may you know I don't know it's just my experience I'm not saying I'm a clinical Physicians I'll tell you why but I'm just telling you that that emotional eating is sort of gone I just I just eat when I need to eat and um and yeah I do eat breakfast lunch and dinner most days and occasionally I go without breakfast or or lunch I skip if I don't Train sometimes I just I just don't feel like eating so I skip it but it's not like I'm living on you know hardly any food anyway yeah imagine if you were you grew up on bacon and eggs probably would end up being a flanker oh problem I probably wouldn't have made it it would been too hard like the advantage about playing prop there's only so many people in the world whose neck's short enough and they're big enough and they're crazy enough to put their head in scrum yeah lucky it's it's it's a not it's like I call the seven foot footer effect so if you're seven foot seven foot your chance of making the NBA is probably 20% don't quote your numbers I'm sorry number but if you're 6'5 you're z z you got to be some serious basketball player so the fact that I was um able to do that it sort of helped me but um yeah no no doubt like I I went through I probably that was the thing when I played rugby I'm not naturally um 120 Kil I have to do unnatural things to to be that way it was interesting someone said to me once I so I was doing a bit of boxing training a mate it was no one serious and sunny bill was boxing said what are you box Sunny Bill I said are you crazy I said what do you mean I said well if I look like he looks I'm 80 I thought I said I'm 0 I'm 100 kilos I actually know I'm actually lighter than that now I'm probably 85 kilos I said he he's so much bigger than me but you're 120 but I was just pumped up I wasn't it wasn't like I was I had a lot of muscle mess and I was big but if I look like he does we're a totally different person in size you know it's um look it was a means to an end like the end of day I love playing the front row I wouldn't change the thing and I love the I love the I used to love scrummaging or be i c plenty of plenty of times when I got bued in the scrums but I loved it and um you I loved the lifestyle but um yeah no doubt like people say to me now that they don't they they just can't believe that I played in the front row and it's funny there were so many ex- front rowers who have gone the other way yeah and there's so many centers who've gone the other way so it's it's sort of like there's so many examples I don't know a guy called Phil vickory played for England he's he looks shredded now there's so many examples um Campbell Johnson played a few for the All Blacks but mly play he's you know he be he looks like he's 80 kilos like he's he's tiny so it's it's um it's funny um how we can be um what we're meant to be by just it's like we just it's like Carnival calibrates for me anyway it calibrates where I should be and I don't need to stress about things to to be where I need to be yeah I was I was going to say too um well first of all I'll say that yeah I've seen I've seen the same thing and um a friend of mine Craig's um friend of mine Olivia who who does helps me out with patreon she does the public health collaboration in London her husband Greg played for the the London sarens friendship so same thing so I met him I I knew he played with sarens he actually played with a buddy of mine Chris walls and a guy I played with in college uh Rod Penny he was actually a kiwi but he came over to the US and played a season I played with him then and so and I played with uh Chris um uh in the US Super League down in when we were playing onb back in San Diego and um so they played together over over the Sison and so I met him you know really nice guy he was in super good shape real lean and I was like thinking I was I was gonna ask him like you know what position he played you know like um and uh I was thinking like Center something like that and it was just like yeah when I was you know in the front row with sarens I'm like what and and that was the thing you know he he was the same thing so he's like you know he's like I I don't know how tall he is but you know maybe you know 510 you around your height a little shorter maybe and uh same thing but he was like 120 kilos you at that weight he was just a little Brick House you know and uh and now he's just just super lean run like super healthy and everything like that you know does does carnivore as well and uh just it's completely back the other way which is good because you can you can really go wrong you can be like you know some of the ex NFL players that just lose it and they just really get out of shape like you know like Refrigerator Perry like that guy was a that guy just turned into an actual refrigerator and uh some of these guys got really unhealthy after that well it's just and there's so many factors in in rug sporting people especially rugby and NFL I imagine but from rugby I can speak of so many examples of people who who live this lifestyle of professionalism and and when I played I was probably you know I was a I was professional I I was really professional n to5 that makes sense that we you know I I worked my butt off I trained hard now when you know I did what I did but I didn't put in that you know that after hour stuff where you did the band work looked after yourself you know I I'd go out and drink till you know with the guys and I'd do all that and it caught up with me you know I my body broke down I um retired at 32 because almost 33 because my body just couldn't do it anymore and you see the top athletes the the ones who who play Forever you see you see what they do after hours and what they eat like my understanding is LeBron James is eating very differently now than he ate when he was younger and to see into him I think it's a ketogenic I'm not 100% sure but I understand someone can look into thatly Bly and and it's interesting to see how much longer people can play when they look after themselves properly and look after their body and I think sport Sports not really interested in how long you play they're just interested in how you play when they've got you and they understand that that stuff's you know they don't really work on the when I was playing the D and the stretching and the stuff although it was there it was nowhere near as important as just get there get the work done run through a brick wall and uh we're finding now that that more and more players are finding it harder to adjust out of sport you know many reasons in in NFL is the the bad example I think and I'm not a massive fan but I understand of seeing players come out of that and just not adjusting from a food Al a whole lifestyle point of view um and there's so many factors in that and I'm I'm not saying it's all diet but it's it's one of the factors that um and and H and and then I came out and thought I was eating reasonably well and I I just ballooned because you start eating the calories I was in carbohydrates um and drinking alcohol and you take away that training it's just it just goes that's a w you think if you're if you're training two a day or three a day sometimes mainly two a day and you're not losing weight and you're big carry a lot of body fat if you stop training you know that it's gonna go it has to doesn't it it's just yeah you feel it's just obvious and so it's um I'm just glad that I um you just made some changes and it's funny how people criticize me now I've been so you say they they criticize me now about Carnival saying oh just another fed you've tried this you've tried that you do this you just this is just this week's one right that's what I cop all the time and I say that's the point right yeah that qualifies me it's taken me I've got this 10 12 year Journey whatever it is longer before like but I've got a 12 year Journey since I went from seriously obese and um and changed my life and I've I've done all this and and and live the non-sustainable and the up and down and the yo-yoing and the the up and and not being a to make it work you know um so I've actually and i' I've tried ve I've tried fasting I've tried claric deficits I've I've tried everything and I get the keto and I finally get the carnival and it's just like wow wow like I am I'm I'm not just a pig I'm self-regulate like I'm I'm self-regulating and my wife's just staying where it is and I'm getting fit and I'm doing it and it's not and I always thought I was a failure I thought I was what's wrong with my willpower I it's I'm all in nothing it's either don't eat or eat like it's just one or the other and there might be a bit of that but it's just it just makes sense to me real sense yeah and and that's the thing it's saying oh well you're just changing around it's just the the the meal of the day it's just like yeah that's the whole point I'm experimenting I'm learning I'm trying something new I'm not just saying nope this is the only thing I'm going to do I'm never going to change like I'm trying to find something that work I'm trying to find the best thing that works for me and so far this is the best one and um you know so I mean that that that takes a lot more honesty and guts to like try new things and to do that self- experiment and try something um that was one of the things that um I said to to Mayor KES Lord mayor KES they said well you you flip-flop you go back and forth and you change your mind on things he's like yeah you're supposed to when you get when you when you get privy to new information and new details you're supposed to change your mind you know you don't just go like no this is what it is and I'll never never going to change my opinion on this that's bad that's bad if you do that so he's like of course I change my opinion I get new information I'm going to change my mind on things it's it's irresponsible not to do that and you know I that's that's why I'm here today I got I got taught all the traditional nonsense I got brought up thinking that you know Shredded Wheat was the way to go and grape nuts even though it tastes like you're you're eating gravel and you have to let it soak in milk for 30 minutes just to like be just you know break your teeth you know know and um you that that's what I grew up with and that's what I went to school with I took nutrition courses they said all that sort of crap this you have to have this percentage of carbohydrates this percentage of protein this percentage of fat and all this sort of different makeup and in medical school they taught us the same lies I misrepresented Framingham study and all these other sorts of things and it uh you know and then I actually saw you know the real evidence on the subject I'm like well yep that's total crap nope that's uh that's wrong and you change your mind right because you have an open mind if you can't change your mind it means your mind is closed and you're you're not you're not going to do yourself any good the chances that you got it right on everything from day one just out of the womb you know zero you know so you have to be able to to change your mind and look and to evaluate new evidence you know I get I get people throwing things at me all the time you know and it's um you know it's interesting it's great great to think about these things but um you know no one's no one's ever thrown something at me that that um has has swayed you know my understanding of human biology you know like all the hard data shows that humans are carnivores and we have been and um for two million years plus and so you know that's that's all there is to it really I mean you you know zoologists don't you know don't like take a survey of what people's opinion are on on the diet of achiev or a panda you know they just look at what cheetah and pandas eat like what have these things been eating historically okay guess that's what we should feed them do they get sick no everything's fine great what have humans been eating every this is this is in the literature this is in the fossil record this is this is the best information that we possibly have besides videotape recordings of them at meal times is that they've been eating predominantly if not exclusively meat and so whatever we've been eating for the longest period of time that is least toxic and we're most used to that's what we're that's what we're going to be most adapted to eating we're be most benefited by eating and we're eating a whole bunch of plants that we have no business eating because we've only introduced these things into our diet at best8 to 10 thousand years ago but for many you know native Australians Native Americans 100 years ago you know for most of them you can't adapt to things in that time and they're getting horribly sick and we're saying that that's okay you know that's that's racist as [ __ ] making these people eat something they haven't been eating like this and and then telling them that this is good for them and going to their communities and say oh no no you really need to have this baby formula it's scientifically shown breast milk is scientifically shown to be the right thing for babies to eat not Nestle's formula give me a damn break and you know and then all these sorts of just nonsensical food half of the ingredients may not have even existed 100 years ago seed oil certainly are new on the market for you know and um all the refined sugar is much more prevalent we just wouldn't see this stuff in nature and and certainly not in the in the quantities that we're seeing now and you know all all these vegetables they're saying well if if we were eating plants which plants were we eating none of the plants that we're eating now in the grocery store even existed 50,000 years ago let alone 500,000 years ago right so how can we say that were supposed to be eating broccoli when broccoli didn't exist you know it's been it was it was uh you know H hybridized and bread from other plants that uh we only very recently started to eat so it's pretty wild that people people say these sorts of things but you know you point these things out you know to in in most people's defense most people will get it and be like you know what actually this makes sense and and um and to look into it more the vast majority of doctors I speak to um when they ask me about these sorts of things you know they end up saying like you know it makes sense you know stuff you're saying makes sense and they try it and you know a lot of people around my Hospital have like certainly started eating a lot more meat and not just going straight up cornivore or at least trying it out you know and so it's um you know and then they see the results and they see how much better they get and how much better they feel and um you know and it's it's nice to see it is growing um and eventually I think that you know the Nay I mean that's the thing you know it takes a lot of Bravery for people to to be in your position and and stand out and just be like you know what I'm going to do this this is what I feel is best for me and I feel good about it and and just weathering that storm because not everybody can handle that it's not fun it's not fun having you know insults and accusations and and and things uh you know thrown at you and people say you're going to die you're going to kill yourself especially your know doctors you probably saying this as well um yeah that's hard that's hard for people to stick to and they Oh no I got to I got to get away from it um but by you doing that and you getting the results you're getting you know you're going to be turning people's heads you're going to make them start thinking about this and then they're going to start asking you questions about it and uh then they're going to try it themselves and you're going to see that you have this big sphere of influence that's going to just radiate out from you uh you probably you'll probably start seeing the evidence of that before too long where people start coming up to you and letting you know and all of a sudden you know Kathy at the office has dropped you know 40 kilos and hasn't really said anything because she didn't want people to give her [ __ ] about it but then you know she comes up and tells you that that's what happened she did it she feels so much better and she's off her meds and all that sort of stuff like it'll start happening and more and more people will start start doing this around you because you know results don't lie you know it's um it's just like you know it's just like any game it's just like oh you guys suck and you just point at the scoreboard like who won you know I don't no Med no medication I don't take any medication yeah I don't take any anything um and everyone tells me he said I just cop it constantly and I just the good thing I'm armed with I'm armed with a 15E football career where I CAU plenty of it I CAU plenty of it online and the and there's plenty of back page sometimes front page articles about my behavior and some of it was deserved so too much but um yeah I'm used to it and I look I it's it's it's almost a little bit of motivation to keep me doing it and you know and it's not about proving people wrong but um I'll be lying of say a little bit of interest you know proving people that because you know sometimes you know people just see you as the I want to say the word but was it unintelligent football How would do you know how are you I'm just interesting that it's like people can say this the company line I CAU of what right to eat and you can have no no training no nothing but you can say that and your they'll they'll put they'll put athletes or anyone to say the company line up in lights you're a doctor and you say something different and you're wrong and you're kill like it's just it can't be both ways it can't be both ways like you know it's it's like in society that this whatever the norm is that has to be true because it's not true what else is not true I don't know maybe that's it you know what else isn't true and people are just people are scared of that and and I guess food is you know people are very protective of their food you know very protective hey everyone really happy to announce a new sponsor for the show and for everybody down in Australia Stockman Stakes who are delivering high quality grass-fed and finished pasture raised beef and other meats flash frozen and vacuum sealed to your door something that I've been enjoying a lot of myself recently as well they also have a great range of specialty items such as high fat keto mints and carnivore beef and organs mints with liver kidneys and beef heart as well so use code chaffy today for free order of beef mints or another specialty gift along with your order at Stockman steaks.com and I'll see you over there thanks guys yeah well you know I mean no one likes to to think that they've been doing the wrong thing or feeding their kids the wrong thing or their parents the wrong thing yes and so you know it sort of shatters their their world a bit and um and that's understandable but you know what's uh what's what's worse than having fed your kids the wrong thing and yourself the wrong thing for all this time is is keeping your head in the sand and continuing to do so you know once you once you find out they're like oo actually this isn't good for me this isn't good for my kids I need to change this instead of saying no no no no I refused to believe that so then you continue feeding your kids things that are bad for them and can potentially hurt them like you know that's on you at that point I mean you're just following you're following the best advice that you can up until the point and then you find out alternative information you know you are responsible for your your it's your responsibility to to evaluate that and to really seriously think about it and see like okay do I need to make a change if not for my sake for my kids sake or my parents sake you know if you're parents are sort of getting older and sort of moving towards nursing home sort of uh situations then you know you it really is uh important that you evaluate these sorts of things differently and we have people that are actually reversing Alzheimer's and and dementia and getting people out of nursing homes and getting them back home independently you know it's absolutely wild putting them on these diet and that's actually sorry is that around I don't know a lot about this I'm asking the question is that around that diabetes 3 is that what they call it is it is that what they're talking about is I don't know be interested to say is that that's really amazing because that's that's game Chang like you know I've seen personally and I've seen not Parkinson personally but I've obviously seen it and to reverse that through diet is just incredible that's why what they call diabetes 3 or is that not a correct Alzheimer's is now being called type three diabetes yeah okay and then yeah PCOS poly cystic ovarian syndrome that's being called type four diabetes oh wow I've I've I've come to start calling cancer type five diabetes wow you know and that's because um when your insulin goes up it stops autophagy people say you need to fast at least 72 hours and go through autophagy what is autophagy autophagy is you're turning over older zombie cells these different sorts of things aren't working right maybe pre-cancer but also they swap out the in internal organel inside the cell so the different sort of working parts inside the cell are called organel sort of like the organs of the cells and um autophagy um you can replace those things now people say like well when you're starving yourself and you're not eating anything your body needs to scavenge and gets these old things and uses those as energy that's complete garbage because what happens is they they take those little mitochondria that are all damaged and broken they chew them up up and they take those resources and they make new mitochondria so it's not that they're actually using energy they're spending energy they're not taking that and cannibalizing it to then burn his energy that's not what happens they replace it with a new better faster stronger younger mitochondria or other sorts of organel as well and so that's just normal housekeeping and so that's just your your normal what should be your normal housekeeping on on swapping out these older damaged mitochondria and other organel and cells and things like that when your insulin is up when it's elevated it blocks that it blocks autophagy so now you can't replace these damaged mitochondria these damaged organel these pre-cancerous cells these zombie cell these other sorts of cells that aren't just that aren't working properly and so they build up and they get worse and one of the things that Professor OT warberg who's a Nobel Prize winner and medicine and Physiology showed 100 years ago uh or at least solid 70 80 years ago was that if you have healthy mitochondria you cannot get cancer W because it's the mitochondria being damaged that cause cancer because the mitochondria are like the workers inside the cell they actually move around inside the cell they create energy ATP but they go to this receptor dump out ATP to turn it on to shoot out this neurotransmitter then they go over here and turn this shootout ATP to stop this process and then go over here and go over here and they've got hundreds or thousands of these things in your cells running the cell like little Factory workers or Sailors on a submarine just going around and you know running the ship right and so when they slow down and start breaking down things starts getting disorganized you start getting signals late not enough power you know day late and a dollar short they're getting there a bit late they're not able to produce as much energy things just start slowing down and getting a bit clunky but it's the mitochondria when a when a cell's trying to to divide it's um have this signal says hey we're going to divide now if things aren't right it's the mitochondria that stop it but it's not like they say they have to give the approval and okay if they have to physically stop it there something going on they no no this isn't happening and they prevent it so if the mitochondria are damaged and just shelled then which is what happens it's called crystallis Isis with the cristate which is like the internal membrane of the of the mitochondria is just gutted it's just destroyed and they're just these just floating ghost ships you know they're just they're just dead they don't they can't do anything um when that happens they can't stop the cell from dividing so it just starts dividing and dividing and dividing and get unregulated cell growth and division which is what cancer is um also when a cell is too damaged and it needs to shut itself off and just kill itself right it's just become too damaged because it hasn't been able to go through autophagy and be able to replace these different sorts of organel it's the it's the mitochondria that action that apoptosis when that signal comes out saying hey no no no shut it down shut it down that signal goes to the mitochondria who then have to go and kill the cell you know they're gutted they don't work so they can't do that so these cells can't kill themselves they can't stop themselves from dividing right so that's that's cancer also you know cancer cells because they don't have mondria they require 400 times the amount of glucose that that normal cells do and that's because mitochondria damaged so and and when you when you um make energy without without mitochondria it sort of goes into a more primitive way of doing it with like the procaryotic cells which are cells that don't have mitochondria and they start this sort of substrate level fermentation which is which is sort of pretty junky our cells aren't designed to do that anymore so they're kicking off a bunch of free radicals and it's going hitting other mitochondria damaging them hitting the DNA mutating those and causing more and more damage and more and more problem and gets more and more and more disease so if you if you just have healthy mitochondria the whole time there's other things that damage mitochondria but the important thing about insulin and autophagy which is why I call cancer type 5 diabetes is because you can damage your mitochondria from a lot of different ways a lot of plant toxins will Dam damage your mitochondria like Cyanide and um and that's a plant toxin that comes from plants and U radiation can uh seed oils can Omega 6 lenic acids can um that's the plant version of omega-6 a lot of other things can tix disease genetic disorders they they damage the mitochondria so a lot of things can damage it but if you have low insulin all the time and you're able to go through autophagy constantly you are much better able to to to recycle out those mitochondria before they get so damaged that they can't function properly and you get other sorts of metabolic distress and dysfunction but also cancer and so you'll keep those cancer or those um mitochondria healthy so that you can never form cancer cells in the first place and that's why I call that type five diabetes because if your insulin is low all the time you'll always be going through autophagy you'll always have healthy mitochondria you won't be able to form cancer just like OT warberg showed uh Professor Thomas Caffrey from Yale and um well he did post talk at Yale now he's at Boston College really bright guy he um I did an interview with him if people are interested in the whole cancer um biology side of things should watch that interview that I did with him um he continued OT warberg work and he actually proved what OT warberg showed in other ways sort of physiologically biochemically in the cells which we have different technology now now we can go in and we can actually pluck out the nucleus of a cell we can take out the mitochondria we can put in other cells we can swap it around so you know warber wasn't able to do that now we are now we can so he did something called the nuclear transfer studies which is he took the nucleus of or the nuclei out of uh cancer cells now first of all uh we talk about well cancer is a genetic disorder right well actually no it doesn't look like it is because you can have a tumor that has all these billions of different cells in it and not all of them have genetic changes only some of them do and so some of them have no genetic changes whatsoever and there entire cell line there's actually entire cancers that we know about they don't have any genetic changes in any of their cells right so how can this be a genetic issue if there's no genetic changes whatsoever right we think that the that the DNA runs everything right it's like well that's the center that's the brain well no actually it's the blueprints the mitochondria are the brain mitochondria The Architects and the builders who using the blueprints to you know build build the building right the blueprints can't build the building right you got a bunch of aliens looking down on people you know building a building on on a construction site you have all these people looking this Maps going that oh that's the brain of the operation everyone centered around the blueprints and then they go off and do what they're told from the blueprints right well no actually that's what we thought we looked at the nucleus and said oh that's where all the information is right well that's where the information is that's not where the brains the operation are that's the information and and you have all these different things coming off in the there's different ways that that different proteins get built from the DNA but it's the mitochondria that use it and do something with it so when when we sort of discover DNA they just said oh everything's DNA now but warberg prior to that had actually shown that it was mitochondria and they just sort of washed Away by saying no everything's DNA now but there are entire cancers that have no genetic changes whatsoever and other cancers don't have genetic changes in each individual cell most of the cells are actually normal but they all behave as cancer why is that every known cancer has damaged mitochondria everyone and so he did something called the nuclear transfer study she took the nuclei out that actually had the genetic changes the genetic Hallmarks for cancer and this is actually what taught was taught to us in in in uh medical school was that you know you have this one little tick and all of a sudden that's full cancer and just goes crazy and it's just monoclonal it's just a clone of itself and it just spreads throughout the body but that's actually not true a lot of those cells have no genetic changes and a lot of these cancers don't have genetic changes at all in any cells so he took the cancer cells the the nuclei from from cancer cells with genetic changes and took those and put those into cells with normal mitochondria normal cytoplasm did not behave as cancer they could clone them into into rats and frogs right then he took the mitochondria the damaged mitochondria out from the cancer cells put those into a normal cell with otherwise normal DNA and everything like that and what happened they did behave as cancer couldn't clone them they just died then to sort of just put the nail in the coffin he took healthy mitochondria out of normal cells and put those into cancer cells suppress the cancer thereby showing that if you have healthy mitochondria you can't have cancer so this is a mitochondrial metabolic disease not a genetic disease and that's why I call um that's why I call cancer type five diabetes Well it's like I was just thinking when you were saying that it's like we're told our whole life and everyone believes you are what you eat right mhm people who made that saying was on the premise you eat what they say is right right for you you know mean mhm you are what you eat but if Carnival is right well that can't be right because as you said like the problem is the problem for the world is if if Carnival is right people are in trouble of losing a lot of you know the pharmaceutical companies the food industry like because if we if we and you know I'm not a doctor I don't know but if we are what we eat and Carnival's R A lot of people are out of business yeah there is that yeah well know but it is funny you know oh you are what you eat okay so are you broccoli yeah then why do you want to eat broccoli uh you know what I am meat I'm made out of meat and I'm trying to build to maintain meat so what do I need to eat I need to eat meat that actually is true right so um you know and I certainly don't need to eat carrots because I'm not I'm not a carrot and I don't need to do that so the moderation everything's kind moderation but it's why would you have I think I heard you say in the podcast everything's okay in moderation and you said something like smoking or or drugs you don't have them like it's bad for you it's bad for you it's not moderation yeah well I um yeah I always try to I always try to take those sort of silly statements and extend them out to theal conclusion right so it's like okay you know so smoking in moderation drinking moderation with heroin in moderation child abuse in moderation adultery in moderation genocide in moderation everything in moderation every probably not everything in moderation like some things in moderation you can get away with and it's not going to harm you too much but no not everything in moderation thank you very much there's some things that are just bad and you just don't want to do them you want to avoid them yeah I like that yeah I like I he say that and I just like that that's that was good yeah um so I was I was going to say too so you said that your your wife is sort of on board too but not necessarily kids well what How's your family taking this what are they what are they sort of doing how they're doing yeah my family's really supportive my wife um is is working on Carnivore she's speaking to a s of a a lcab high fat dietician and working with them um yeah but she's she's really on board and you know I'm a and I think and I don't want to make generalizations but I'm a pretty simple I'm a simp I'm a pretty simple creature I feel I feel like I'm a push bike and my wife's a Ferrari like so many things that to to work there you know I'm just a push bike so I think in some ways I'm a simple guy and and I keep things simple it makes my life easy and you know but you know but the my wife definitely is is on board and she's just she's just struggling she did the 30-day with you the 90 day I think it was and she really enjoyed that she did that really enjoyed that and she's just working on it and she just look at look look my my but I think on the same token my journey my used my journey was a 12year journey to get you know and and even I started keto in January 22 so I've really been over two years to get here it hasn't just you know although I started carnivore in I didn't just start carnivore flat in August 23 I had a lot of buildup to it you know and had a lot of evidence of other things not working so I was they caught the gift of desperation I had that I tried it all and so I had that gift of desperation so I was able just to run with I was willing to try anything you know to a certain extent so um um I think it's a journey and and I was so glad Alex who sort of helped me with keto he didn't push Carnival he he knew that it wasn't the way to sort of get me into it he got me into it through ketogenic keto diet and and I could cope with that because I was having because I thought I had to have green vegetables you know I'm right actually I'll tell you a funny story he actually sold me on the on the keto the the selling point and and I don't drink anymore but I used to be a big drinker so I really uh he gu and whether it's true or not I believed it he said uh one potato is the equivalent of 32 pure blonde beers the low cal beer you know in in sort of carbs or whatever it is I went wow and if if you say it like that to to a guy like me and many of my friends it's like I know I'd much prefer 32 pure blonde beers than one potato now whether it's right or not I don't know but it just Pro it just put a point to me that well I you know um sty you know carbs aren't good for me they're not good um and nether I'm not saying that like you're not going to have food to but you know it was able to get me started and get I don't need those vegetables I stick to my green veggies I have my um I have my meat I have my my my my high fats and and yeah I I didn't do it properly at all it was it was protein bars there was D Coke at times um there was some you know bad choices that way but what I didn't do is I didn't I stayed away from carbs I just I just that's what I stayed away from um and it it was just a process and my body adjusted and I adjusted and and my mind adjusted like that was the harder thing to change all the stuff we're talking about now to change that to think everything you thought was one way and now it's the other way that took time and I've listened to to so much like I listened to a lot of stuff and um as you can see I'm I don't actually um articulate it as well as you guys often like I know it but I sort of don't totally understand understand it but um you know I'm passionate about it and and I'm passionate about it for me you know because it's it's done so many great things for me and I think it can do a lot of great things for other people and you know um my my my not advice is the word but I guess if you want to try it just have a go and you know if if you if you are a little bit worried get get a a dietition like my wife's done and who's a low carb and just do it with someone to help you like you know I think you need someone to help you sometimes my kids too my kids like funny I had my birthday and I had a keto cake one year like a few years ago when I started and the kids could not stand the keto cake like it was just it was like cardboard to be fair it was terrible anyway so my latest birthday in December I got a steak cake so I had a raw steak and then I blew a candle out it was really cool my family do that for me and so my my six-year-old turned six and so he wanted a steak cake for his sixth birthday and he loves he's a he loves steak um he's a big me eater um but yeah look I'm not I'm the same I don't push it on the kids I I I encourage it I like them to have meat I like them to have eggs they atat a lot of them too um but on the same token um you know they they still have you they're still kids and you can only encourage them I I think telling a kid you can't do something is just making them want to choice so you got to be careful there too but um all you can do is encourage and just show them the best you'd be the example right You' be the example and say this is what I do for me and this is why I do it hopefully they make the right choices you know hey everyone if you need a little extra help getting started on a carnivore diet and my online resources that I have for free aren't enough for you you can go to www.how carnivore docomo challenge where you'll have online Resources Group support weekly Zoom meetings as well as the ability to chat live with my s Simon Lewis and the others in the challenge who can help you and support you and give you extra advice and help you along the way so if that sounds like something that would be beneficial to you then please go to howc carnivore docomo it and you know especially if if you're raising them from birth you know you just you got you know it's easy you know but um you when you're sort of coming into it later you just have to sort of ease into it and and you know and and exactly what you're saying you know say hey this is how I do it this is why I'm doing it and I think it'd be really good for you and they you know they they're you know kids are designed to model their parents' Behavior once you get past a certain age then they designed to rebel against their parents and sort of pull away and sort of thinking about things for themselves but especially those early years they they really just like laser focused on you about what what's Dad doing I want to do that and so you can you can get a lot of good done there and then you know you can also you know you guys buy the groceries you know there just a little bit less and a little bit less and you know and and certainly no crap and sugar and all that sort of [ __ ] you know that that just goes away and it's just like a little bit less now a little bit less carbs a little less carbs and now it's just sort of you know meat and veg and now it's sort of a little less veg and then it's just all of a sudden they're just asking for steak cakes for birthdays you know and then you're just you're Off to the Races and you know it's it's pretty obvious too like and I think they're starting to experience now but I said someone someone said to me is there is there any side effects of Carnival I said probably one side effect and I haven't had too bad because I haven't swayed I reckon if you swayed off carnivore and ate crap after your body had eaten so well for a long time you would know it you would like your that would be the side effect and it's not really a side effect it's just showing you what that does to you and I think the fact we do that with kids and then occasionally they go to a party and have an ice cream and kids are smart right they they if if they've been feeling great and then they have something to eat and they feel really bad after it they blame that thing that they they're too pure like it's like my um my son won't eat Magnum ice cream because he had one at Christmas when we were away with the family and he got really sick and had we had um took to hospital because he had just need to drip you know couldn't vomiting and he won't have Magnums because he thinks that's what it was now whether it was or not I don't know but what I'm saying is that if they eat well and then they eat something that makes them sick they know and looking back the amount of times that I went to parties as a kid and gorged on soft drink sweets chips and I'd wake up at night and vomit like because I just ate crap like back and go I I sort of I sort of say it's just it's so obvious now that I was eating so poorly and it was just um yeah and I it's just yeah it's just it's just my I've said enough of it but it's just like it's just I'm just glad that I've uh and just I said I'm grateful for people like yourself and other doctors and who uh who are able to just help her because without that how would I have known or changed it takes one it just takes people to start doing this and and as you said it's not as long as you know you can make the decision like no one's saying do eat this or don't eat this but at least at least eat what you eat by knowing the truth don't just don't eat like there's nothing worse than eating or taking it's like smoking when it was back in the day like years ago they they had ads saying it was good for calming your nerves and it was good for you like that's like that's terrible if they knew that was bad for you and then there'd be no one who would disagree that what they said was smoking that it was so bad it was good for you and then people died and became addicted no one look back to that now and says oh that was all you know they said that was terrible so I don't know how it's any and so at least if you know you can make choice you want like there's plenty of people who know there certain things bad in their life but they choose they make the choice because they they'd rather do that that's fine but at least no you know sorry yeah no you're right I I I even saw um on tour I saw I was reading up on the tour to France and the seeing what what they were doing and and in the early days they were actually eating like a ton of meat but it was basically like they the tour to France was like up through the mountains but it was like on dirt roads back then they weren't even paid and they were on like single gear bikes right the these these were these were some badass dudes right and and they were going through this it was just these trudging on dirt roads and um and they would basically you stopped at like any sort of roadside in like that's where you stayed like wherever you ended up yeah you know like for the night like that's where you that's where you stayed and and whatever they had for food that's that's what you ate and they would just they would eat drinking tons of wine and they're having lots of chops that was a big thing for a while was it's just tons of chops you know you know as we eating tons of chops but they'd have some other stuff too and they thought hey you know you need you need the chops you need the the meat for energy uh but then they'd be just boozing their asses off uh and then they'd all smoke in the morning they'd all smoke a lot of cigarettes and drink wine because they thought that that um smoking cigarettes would get your cardiac rate up and it would open up your lungs we like oh I got to open up my lungs get it ready for the day so I'm going to smoke some cigarettes and that's going to help me be an athlete that's what they were being told right and then you know one dude came in and he started just crushing it just started killing everybody just winning just every year I think he's moreing like know more of these things than sort of sort of anybody and and he um and he was the one who first started just cleaning up his diet and or not clean up his diet but cleaning up his ax he wasn't wasn't drinking wasn't smoking and then he started introducing like a bunch of carbs and that's what like took over like oh let's model what this guy does oh do a lot of carbs well you know really what he was doing was not smoking and drinking two gallons of wine every night you know couldn't be that carbs are so great you know and U you know they even said there was like there was a list one of these guys that said um that it was like so specific you know it have like you know like 47 chops and this many this and this many this and this many this and a lot of wine and it was like and the person uh discussing this was just like you know given the amount of detail on how many of these individual items he had it must have been an insan insane amount of wine a lot of wine he couldn't even keep track of how much he had you know they were just they were just guzzling this stuff and just waking up you know hung over to Hell still drunk most likely and then getting up on a on a single gear bike in the in the freaking Mountains on a dirt road and just and just going and crushing it you know I mean that's like something that people you know spend years of training and steroids and blood doping to even survive and these guys are doing it on a freaking one gear bike in the dirt and drunk off their ass you know like it's just you know you have to I honestly am just so impressed by these guys honestly be able to do that in those conditions drunk as hell smoking cigarettes the whole time like I mean those guys are my my heroes now yeah um so just just one other question too was um you know have you have you spoken to other other athletes about this as well have you try try to talk to sort of the next generation of players about fixing up their diet in this in this way because there actually are a lot of players that are moving to this there's a lot of pro Aussie um rugby players um certainly in League they're changing to this there's some all blacks that are doing carnivore now um and um I I heard that the Frank brothers were and like one of the Franks was a prop he's like 38 just got signed Owen's playing yeah so Owen was Owen was Owen's one of the the greatest TI heads I've played against oh was a fantastic he still is he's fantastic he's 38 so I well I played against there's not many left that I played against so only few so there's James slipper there's Owen Franks and Owen was uh you know he's a 100 test all black he's there was kyl hymon before him and then Owen Franks like the the you know the Legends and you know Owen Franks gets talked about by current English pops of what he did you know and um didn't know he was Carnival so I that makes sense I'll have to reach out to him cuz he's got he does a lot of scrum he do lot of scrum stuff online calls it iron iron bark and sells products for w of scrummage and and individual work it's really cool with Jason the All Blacks coach scrum coach so um no I haven't like it's sort of I guess because I'm not involved in rugby as much these days um just with a small family a young family and I got big kids and little kids 24 and 21 and six and five so i' got my hands full and um you know I work I travel a lot for work so a lot for work and so that's the other thing too the good thing about traveling is that that's why I have a a lot of bacon and eggs sometimes because you just can't get steaks for breakfast but anyway but I think I'm really Keen to hear that like I'm really Keen to hear more about professional athletes trying it I think it's going be a game changer because in you know other other than front rowers most people want to stay as lean and as big as possible you know that you know not many not many people in sport who want to carry excess body weight you know so if you can especially in league if you can build up as mass mass as possible without K last because you're such a game of a brutal game with such an aerobic capacity the 10 meter all you know run running backwards I don't know if You' run backwards but when you're 125 kilos and you run backwards it is one of the hardest things to do on your legs barring soft Sand Hill runs that's crazy so I'd be really Keen to see I think it could change a lot of players and I and I want to um I actually want to go to Team I think I think if a team could get someone in and and just you know to get everyone byy in it might be difficult but if you could get a whole team to do it it could be it could be incredible like if you could get them to do it and prove to them that it's not going to limit their their performance it's actually going to help their performance and I think the great thing is I've listened to um like the stuff that I listen to that makes me think it would be and I'm not an expert but the whole thing that Alex told me about and you probably could say is that you can only carry two two and a half thousand calories of glucose or glycogen just qu that but you have like a like lean people might have 100,000 calories of fat on them so you got unlimited fuel tank versus a tank that you know two and half th000 calories is not a lot that's not going to last you a game of football I wouldn't imagine all like I wouldn't thought you know a high rate as a big block so what could that do and you know the fact that Alex ran five marathons in five days fully vastard prove that um I was speaking to him earlier and I I said you've got got to prove that it can because the qu I've seen him do another podcast where they question well you've done that but how would it go on a leite performance like running him in in in three hours or you know or whatever like running them faster and he was saying I don't know about that I said and he goes well I should what if I did it on heart rate I said that's a great idea if you could keep your heart rate for a certain rate faster or on even on Carnival you would prove that it's actually not only and you've probably got many examples I'm probably going silly me saying of how it doesn't limit Peak Performance and and I believe it wouldn't but I just don't no it doesn't yeah exactly right so it would be incredible to see the first players doing it if you know Owen Franks is doing it 38 that's incredible like as a a tiad prop who's played you know and let's put this in context he he he deoen Super Rugby in 1920 so we're not talking about someone who deboed late and having a 14 year career we're talking about someone who's done 19 years in the front row at tight prop and if you know rugby tiad prop is the most important position on the field and the second most is reserve tiad so it's a very important so for him to do that I actually I feel like having a chat to him about it I'd be really interested to chat to him yeah well do I mean this this is like so I haven't talked to him this is just some what someone told me that he was doing and so you know um but I do know of others specifically have who have come out and been more public with it and then I know uh carnivore Sports Medicine doctors who have worked with uh multiple players that just want to sort of keep it Hush Hush because they don't they don't want other people knowing you know yeah this is this is this is this is free performance-enhancing drugs right this is this is legal you know I I I I work with some Elite athletes who have literally and they're already Elite athletes and they will double their testosterone in six months on a carnivore diet yeah right I mean how can you how can I mean that's just that's insane you know people cheat in order to get that and that's just one hormone you bump that up but everything else is coming up too everything else is increasing improving and their energy Dynamics is as well so yes you know as was in lead AET you can definitely do that Professor Tim NOS from um South Africa he's been showing this he've been doing uh clinical crossover trials and keto athletes and carb athletes showing you get the exact same output and in fact you just have an unlimited tank yes for the people that that are on on a ketogenic uh metabolism and uh Dr Paul Mason does a whole video on Athletics and ketogenic uh and ketogenic metabolism he actually shows studies in humans where they actually found that um that you replenish that ketogenic athletes replenish their own muscle glycogen and liver glycogen from their fat stores faster than carb athletes drinking sugar water right so yeah 100% it's better um as far as the sub three hour marathon um these two ladies just did his mother and daughter um both carnivore both fasted didn't didn't eat anything the entire race they both ran sub three-hour Marathon they're the first ever uh sub three-hour mother and daughter Marathon team or whatever and they did it fasted on Carnivore right so and and and they're chicks right so yes yes this this can absolutely do it my personal experience I remember I said to someone and they they're getting a bit hard on me they're questioning me but sort of doing it antagonized I said I said I I don't want to say this but I feel like I found the elixir of life like it's it's like like the way I've trained since I've been carnivore no muscle soreness and as you said that's what apparently steroids are supposed to do stop muscle soreness so you can train more more volume they probably do a lot of other things too don't me I don't know much about them but um I am the the the issues I'm having are joint issues and they're just that's age and I've got arthritis I'm not having any issues with my muscles like I have like you I would do a hard chest day and someone will grab you under there at footy training and a don't do that it it doesn't happen and and that's so my experience I'm not a I'm not a high performance athlete anymore I'm got a fused ankle I got shoulder Recon snap do killes you know I got a million things wrong with me um so I can't say from that but I see how I perform in the gym at training to failure and it's it's incredible yeah yeah I don't I don't get sore anymore no unless I one couple of coffee sore for two days wow you know and um that's why I don't I don't drink coffee you know I gave it up for that raising coffee too but the other thing was too the cramps I was cramping with coffee in carnival now that's you know eight triple shots of coffee that's I'm extreme but since I stopped drinking coffee the cramping has changed massively like Mass like um yeah it's been a big that and that's a real big reason not to go back cuz I I don't want to cramp up like yeah no yeah definitely not yeah I mean coffee is it dehydrates you and it strips magnesium out of your body so it's this like this perfect storm for cramping you know so yeah and that's that's probably one of the thing that that pisses off people most on on the Internet is when you say about cramping you say I don't cramp it's like sh you cramp you know it's like I don't actually you know like all you have to do is stop eating plants for two weeks and you'll see as well you don't you don't get sore or sorry yeah you don't get sore yeah you don't get sore afterwards that pisses them off when I tell them I don't get sore you know it's it's funny to me that that that's the one that triggers people the most yeah yeah like people are like as I said before I think it if you don't want to go full way just just start making changes so you're getting closer to it you know like it's just you know if you want to have a cup of coffee have like I had coffee like it it'll happen over time but it doesn't mean you don't start something because there's one part of it you disagree with you know like it's just just do it with the way just like I I don't understand people who who they have to have it perfect it has to be 100% they believe in or they won't try it like if something's going to make you better try it what have you got to lose try it and and make your own mistakes have you ate Frosty fruits and get gout you know have coffee and cramp up you know and then go well I'm not going to have cop anymore you know make make all the like that's the best thing I've done with this I've made all the stupid decisions you know have too much diet cake which is terribly for you and that's terrible stuff you know I've done all that like make a mistake so you can you can get to where you need to get and geez it's like what you said like or just because you can't get grass fit doesn't mean you don't do it like be don't be crazy you don't be crazy yeah definitely I'll get a bit passionate yeah well um that's awesome man thank you so much for that is U are you on social media or anything like that how can people find you yeah I'm on link de I'm not on social media as such I haven't really got Instagram or Facebook I I I don't you know like I as I said I I I'm I'm not really in this space other than living the lifestyle i' I've got a you know before I'm not an advocate maybe I am maybe I don't know but I'm I'm not you know I've got a full-time job I've got a full-time job that travels and that takes up my time I got family kids you know I get up at 4:30 or 5 so I can trained for an hour and a bit you know an hour and a half you know I I I can't train during the day at night I have to get up early to train and and I have to fit this in around like I think that's what's making it good for me is that I'm hopefully I'll prove that you can be in the best shape of your life um by doing you know by virtually eating meat walking lifting weights maybe walk five or six times a week lift weights four to five times a week drink plenty of water and eat carnivore and you can get in the best shape of your life and still have a full-time job that's 10 hour like you're the biggest like there's no one else I need to convince more than that like how many hours like you I should I feel silly saying how much I work compared to yourself so like you're you're a surgeon the hours you work and you can still do all that um and and as you said you don't even train that much these days because you haven't got time yeah love that you I you know I put on a lot of work you know previously you know as you did you know so you have that that sort of basis there but uh yeah but but you you keep it you know that's that's the other point that's really worth saying yeah it's you how often do you see people train they do six months hard work on and they stop and they just lose it all yeah exactly same to happen with with Carnival does it experience doesn't no and and when I first came back to carnivore sort of six seven years ago I was I was just lifting all all all day I mean I was I was Lifting for like three four hours a day playing I was back and I was 38 and I felt so good I was like yep going back playing rugby and I went back and started playing with the Seattle my Seattle team in Seattle who had just gone fully professional they just said the mlr the major league rugby I started back in in that um and just felt amazing just felt fantastic you know felt like I was 22 again and uh when I was doing carnivore and you know playing at a high level and I was just at a dead Sprint the whole time with all these guys was midseason I was completely I hadn't played a full season 3 years just come back from doing humanitarian work in Bangladesh was totally out of shape you know overweight everything like that but I lost 10 kilos and 10 days and then I just felt like a superhero all the inflammation was out of my body couldn't get sore like yep time to play some rugby and I was just and I thinking about I was just like like well I haven't really run you know maybe I should ease into this like screw that I'm just going to go full on you know I could just go as hard as I I I could just push myself to to the limit when I was 22 my body just kept giving me more so I'm like I'm going to do that now this is a dead Sprint the whole time and it was keping up kept up with everybody was was in it you know we're doing like little scrimmages and things like that like you know no one had a step on me and felt great and two weeks later so I like one two three four fifth training into it right so i' had four full trainings and then we went in and we had a fitness test and I was like all right moment of truth let's see how good this diet is yeah and we did the modified bleep test and I came in uh top five out of 92 people midseason you know and that that was my fifth training and and what what was your weight when what was your weight at that stage too what did you play at what that stage so at that point I was 243 pounds and I know it was 20 243 sorry put that in context for people like you how many kilos that's about 110 111 yeah 110 kilos people realized the people who the best beep test results not done a modified one but the old Beep Test M halfbacks always win they they're the highest and they they the runners so to come top five in a beep test says you're fit but to do it at0 kilos is incredible people people have to remember that that you know and a modified be just wrong but it's stopping starting too isn't it it's you started a little bit Yeah and um yeah but sort of the same thing yeah you can go come back and you all that stopping and starting at some obviously a lot harder the heavy you are yeah you think if you had been 10 or 15 kilos lighter your beep test would have been off so like you would have been through the roof you're about so it even just shows how fit you were at that weight well it was just it was just all diet because I I was I was out of shape I was really out of shape and you know people were saying to me it's like oh hey you've been sitting in pretty good shape no I'm completely out and I was still visibly overweight I mean I was still visibly had extra fat on me wasn't was wasn't all toned up I had I had some muscle on me but like it wasn't anything like it was and but I was like I was just lifting weights constantly and I was training and I was back in training and I just started shredding up I started getting you know I I got I got down like 6% body fat and I I just put on just a ton of muscle and but I weighed 243 the whole time so it's just basically and so all the fat that I was losing I was replacing with muscle to to the to the Ounce it seemed like because my weight my scale only went to the nearest pound but it was was 243 every single day I'd get up I'd pee and I'd check the scale it was 243 on the nose there wasn't a single day it was 244 or 24 or 242 it was 243 every single day it I thought it was hilarious so I checked it every single day because I thought it was so funny that it was exactly the same every single day but I was just visibly transforming in the mirror and I was just eating tons of of fatty red meat and I just felt great I just felt like a superhero so you i' go to training i' I'd lift weights for 3 to four hours hours a day and I'd listen to books on tape and lectures and talks and things like that that I was interested in while I was just lifting the whole time couldn't get sore couldn't run out of energy I was I I would I would cap myself at like 20 sets so I do like 20 sets of bench 20 sets of dips 20 sets of flies 20 sets of of uh deadlift 20 sets of squats you know 20 sets of shoulders because I could and and I was I wouldn't get sore you know and I was just like all right well just just go crazy crazy on this and I felt good doing it I felt I get I got more energy I felt better as I was doing it so I was just like I sort of didn't want to stop I just sort of capped it there because I was just like I had to have a limit somewhere because I I I could just keep going and I felt good doing it so that was my cap and so I I put in a lot of work especially in the first few years and then when I was back in sort of full-time Hospital medicine then it was just once a month once every two weeks something like that but it maintained you know it didn't it didn't go anywhere what what your white now what your white now um I'm a little lighter now so I'm probably like I think last time I weared myself I was like 103 or something like that you know out gy that's like yeah like like that's not a lot of weight like thinking you lifting three or four like three or four hours a daying eating and you virtually not doing much training all you like you're not far off no like like that's not P seven K that's not much at all like and to be able to lift that load in a day of like it's just people will say that's impossible to do without enhancement Dr for drugs you can't lift that you just they call what they call it junk volume it's just people say that but I totally believe it because I've experienced and I can't like I haven't the time to do it like you and I'm and I have a few limiting factors like my if I lift too much my elbow goes or my you know the joints you know and that's you know the end of the day you can't I'm sure the joints are getting better through having Carnival but the end of the day it's going to take time and my joints are going to need time to to get better but um yeah that's that's that's just really cool I love those stories because it just helps me get more more motivated to keep going and and keep doing it yeah well you definitely keep doing it and uh it just keeps oh I'm not I think you've heard from now there's no there's no there's no I'm not gonna stop doing it yeah awesome well Matt thank you so much man it's been an absolute pleasure it's great to getting to to know you better and talking to you about all your experiences and I appreciate you sharing it with everybody it was great lovely to meet you and thanks for having me on I really enjoyed it not a problem at all everybody else thank you so much for watching I hope you enjoyed it and if any athletes are in the house you know let us know what your experience has been like uh with the carnivore diet or if you're thinking about it uh let us know down in the comments below thanks a lot see you next time hey guys thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say if you like it then please like And subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcast and if you're on YouTube then please hit that little bell and subscribe and that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out which should be every week if not more and if you can share this with your friends that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing thanks again guys