The Sweet Lie That’s Been Destroying Your Health (Truth About Sugar)

[Music] you got into nutrition in college during undergrad. >> I would I was I'm curious to see like how how is your nutrition now compared to how it was when you were playing pro rugby? So it it uh it fluctuated because you know when I when I was first starting out and playing you know I was just eating what we were supposed to eat you know um you know mixed mixed diet with uh you know carbs and vegetables and protein and and a bit of fat and and that's what I thought was was normal. Um, but then when I was in in my undergraduate degree at the University of Washington in Seattle, I was I took a class on cancer biology. And so we were learning in cancer biology uh that plants use defense chemicals in order to protect themselves. And this is just a normal thing that any any botany class will tell you. Anybody who studies horiculture or botney can certainly tell you this that that plants have different defenses because they're living organisms and all living organisms have a defense against being against being eaten. And while animals can run away or fight back, plants can't. And so they need to use other methods. And one of those methods is by being actively poisoned, making defense chemicals. And you know, this is um this is something that can cause inflammation and and and screw with your body and your cells and precipitate cancer. So they're we call them carcinogens. So because this was uh you know cancer biology we were looking at mostly from a carcinogen point of view and we learned that Brussels sprouts had 136 known human carcinogens in them. White mushrooms had over 100. Spinach kale lettuce celery cabbage cucumber broccoli you name it. They had 60 80 over 100 known human carcinogens each and they and they were quite abundant. We know from the work of professor Bruce Ames at UC Berkeley published a paper in 1989 showing uh the the toxins in plants versus pesticides that were sprayed on them because because they were trying to make pesticides illegal. They're saying, "Hey, these are poison. We shouldn't use these." He's like, "Yeah, they are poison, but we've been using these for 80 years. We've never had a problem. So, you know, let's take a look at it." And he found that just the toxins that they knew about at the time, which were not as many as I learned about in my undergrad, that there were 10,000 times more naturally occurring poisons in vegetables like spinach than in uh the pesticides that we sprayed on them by weight. And that the naturally occurring uh toxins were far more likely to cause cancer than the pesticides we sprayed on them. So, they were really a drop in the bucket. Um, and this is why we still have pesticides because they were trying to get them illegal, but they're like, "No, actually, objectively, they aren't actually worse than the plant itself." And so, if you want to eat the plant, then you shouldn't have any problem with the pesticide. And I think, you know, we're using sort of different ones now. You know, the glycophosphates and things like that weren't uh I don't think tested at the time. So, that might be, you know, a different different argument, but certainly for what we were using at the time, they were specifically in that study were looking at AAR, which is what they use for apples at the time. So, obviously, different things can be different, but either way, we were blown away by this. And you know because your your whole life you're getting told that you know just vegetables are the are where you get all your nutrients. This is the most important thing you can eat very very healthy that meat's bad. And I remember thinking in my head I was like but vegetables are still good for you though right? And uh my professor just looked at us and and he just sort of shook his head and he just said I don't eat salad. I don't eat vegetables. I don't let my kids eat vegetables. plants are trying to kill you. So, I was like, "Right, screw plants." And I just stopped, you know, and I I defaulted into a carnivore diet just because I just did not want to eat plants. And so, I went to the grocery store like, "Well, everything has plants in it. Everything has vegetables. Everything has, you know, grains or or rice or whatever." And so, I just defaulted in eating eggs and meat. And this was, you know, while I was playing rugby and my my athletic performance and ability just went through the roof. It just absolutely shot to the stratosphere. I stopped drinking during the rugby season at the same time. And obviously that contributes, but again, you know, alcohol comes from plants. So that's not uh that's sort of in line with with that that whole thinking as well. But I I got to the point where I literally couldn't get tired. I couldn't run out of energy and I couldn't get sore. Like you know, I don't get sore anymore. A lot of people on a carnivore diet or even a keto diet notice this. They get much less sore. And you know, I attribute this to different defense chemicals causing inflammation and soreness and and irritability in your healing tissue that increases pain. And we see this in chronic pain patients as well that, you know, fibromyalgia is going away. They go on a carnivore uh diet or eating keto, but but carnivore seems to to help more. Uh getting rid of their fibromyalgia, getting rid of their ridiculopathy, chronic pain in their shoulders, arthritis pain, people that uh you know, Dr. Sean Baker talked about how when he was just putting people on keto, they were getting ready to do like a total knee replacement, bone on bone arthritis, and then, you know, a month before the surgery, they say, "Hey, doc, you know, like I'm not in pain. Like, I don't think I need surgery just just from dietary changes." And so, I certainly noticed that like I always had very bad back pain, uh, even as a teenager. And all of a sudden, I didn't have any. I could just sprint nons. I had to work up to it obviously, but I did work hard. And so my my fitness just spiked and so I just had exponential gain and I was able to push myself and get fit enough to the point that I actually couldn't wear myself out. I could just sprint and sprint and sprint and sprint and could not get tired. And I remember thinking the amount of of work I was doing. I was like I could probably just sprint a marathon and just win it. And I was thinking I'm like that might be cool just like break a world record on that first ever marathon. But like I just thought the idea of just >> running for 26 miles just just the most boring thing ever. Yeah. And so I just never did it. But I fully regret it. And I remember thinking at the time like I'm going to regret this if I don't do it because I will never be in this good of a shape again in my life. And I never will. And so like it's um you know it is a shame that I did did didn't do that. But yeah, my my performance went absolutely through the roof. I was able to, you know, you know, push myself and excel, you know, far past any anybody else that I was playing with or against. And this was, you know, you know, was commented on by by people I was playing with that were like, you just like no one is as close to as fit as you and and uh and can do the things that I could do. But it was um it was when I went to England and was playing there and I didn't really have the same access to food and and meat. some of the meat was breaded and uh I I sort of started thinking, oh, was it is that big of a deal if it's breaded and it did it made a big deal and it made a big difference and I I remember thinking a few months into it like, you know, why am I not feeling as like super human as I normally do? You know, I didn't really know what was going on. I thought maybe I just wasn't working as hard or pushing myself. But that was the beginning of my decline, you know, nutritionally because I started slipping off things. started with, you know, breaded, you know, crumbmed meat because it was just easy and accessible. And then, you know, I was had had maybe started putting some like ketchup on things and all of a sudden one day I thought like, oh, maybe we can all make French toast. And I didn't even think about like why you're doing that. That's a plant, you know, and uh and you just slip off of it. And then it wasn't until like sort of 5 years ago that I sort of, you know, realized uh that, you know, humans actually are carnivores. this is this is just the kind of animal that we we are and this is the way we should be eating. And then I look back and like that's what it was. That's what that was the difference and that's why I stopped feeling as good is because I slipped off of it then. So now I'm back on it and I'm just feeling as as good as I did in my early 20s. >> Isn't it amazing how just like one small meal whether it's having cheesecake or ice cream or this and then you sort of make these concessions. Well, I had that last night so then today I can have the chocolate bar, the cookies and then it's like a just a snowball rolling downhill picking up negative inertia in the wrong direction. Yeah. >> Um, and so that's why I think it is good to be >> maybe not a zealot, but to to eat clean and to to not sort of have these cheat days and things like that. >> Well, I think that, you know, if you if you make an excuse once, you'll make it a thousand times. You know, if you you know, if you say like, well, you know, like you little things, you know, it's like, oh, you're going to miss your kid's birthday. You know, it's just like it's like, well, I miss it this year because it's a good reason. Well, then you'll you'll there are good reasons to do anything. And and you know, if you find a reason to do something, you can find a reason again. uh or like drinking, you know, if people, you know, uh don't want to drink. Like I don't really drink anymore. Um but you know, because I just feel so much better when I don't and I I prefer feeling great to feeling drunk sometimes. And u but you know, sometimes I will, but it'll be for a very specific occasion. And it's not just kind of a well, you know, someone twisted my arm, you know. Um but you have to be very careful that. I I would never drink during the rugby season because again like you make you make one concession like you'll you'll do it again. And so it was just like it was just hard rule. No during the rugby season I will not drink at all. And and and when I did that I was able to stick to it. And cheat days I think are you know probably a bad idea because you you know a lot of people you have to you know contend with like food addictions and you know carbohydrates are certainly addictive. Fructose actually is chemically addictive. It gives a dopamine response to the um addiction centers of your brain just like cocaine or meth gambling and uh and we can we can measure this. We can track this and you know because dopamine is an excitatory molecule turns your neurons on and when your neurons are on they're actually being damaged and they have to turn off cyclically to uh heal themselves. Um it's why sleep's so important. um you can actually permanently damage or even kill different different portions of your brain due to excess excitation. So this is how you know when they say like oh you're going to you know pop holes in your brain if you do these drugs that's really what they're talking about is that you're you have this constant dopamine hit and you're just keeping these neurons firing all the time and eventually they die off. And so we actually see in MRI studies that people that are addicted to methamphetamines and they kill these areas of their brain those their you know uh functional MRIs you give them a a hit of amphetamines or whatever this this area of the brain will just you know barely twinkle but you give that same dose of amphetamines to someone who's metabolically unwell who's who's a sugar addict same barely twinkle. So it actually kills the same areas of your brain as meth, you know. So this is a real drug, you know, and it and it's really addictive, even though it doesn't give us a big high. You know, people think that, you know, a drug is only as bad as the high it gives you, you know, but that of course isn't isn't true. You know, something can be very bad for you and not even get you high. Like arsenic will just kill you. I I don't I haven't heard anybody, you know, you know, dosing arsenic for fun, you know, but you fructose is one of those. It's it's it's highly toxic. It's highly addictive. It breaks down in the same byproducts as alcohol. So it causes same damage, fatty liver disease, cerosis, diabetes, heart disease, and it's even implicated in cancer and Alzheimer's. So this is a really, really bad drug. And so having a cheat day for a highly addictive, damaging drug, I think, is a bad idea because all you're going to do is just get yourself addicted again. It's going to make you want that more. You're going to be addicted again. Then for the next few days, you're going to be thinking like, I really just I really just want that drug. It's like having a having a cheat day for smoking or for cocaine, you know? I mean, like that's just called a weekend, I guess. You know, you just do drugs on the weekend, you know, but that's the same as a cheat day, you know? You one one day a week, you're eating all this crap or you're doing drugs or you're drinking alcohol or you're smoking cigarettes, you know, and so you do that on the weekends. Fine, that's better than not doing it every day. But what you're doing is you're keeping yourself addicted and you're hating your life all throughout the week and you're thinking about this. And by the time you're actually coming down off that and you're actually probably getting to a point where you're not going to miss it too much longer, you redaddict yourself. And sometimes you you'll binge on it because you know, oh, this is my day, so I'm really going to go after it. So, I think those are counterproductive to have a cheat day because after a couple weeks, you you stop having the addiction and you can just move on with your life and just not miss it. Like, I I really don't care. Like, I like candy. Like, who doesn't? But I don't miss it. I really don't care at this point. It's a great way to reframe this hyper palatable processed food that it is really there's an underlying addiction that's woven into that because you know during co especially you would see uh Chick-fil-A and Jack in the Box you know we're hearing about how this virus is dis disproportionately impacting obese and diabetic and hypertensive people but people would still feed their addictions by going to the fast food >> which to me made no sense knowing the biology but then I started to think okay well people are still going to binge drink and do this so there there must be something phys or psychological here uh an addiction of sorts. So yeah, I definitely want to speak to that more and talk about honey and fruit, >> but um you know going back to sort of the uh to to sort of putting a button on the the physiology of rugby, >> you mentioned your recovery was better and and we encourage exercise so much. Do you think that you're just reducing sort of the background smoldering inflammation >> by eliminating some of that amunologic noise, so to speak, by >> getting rid of the processed foods and and some of the plant chemicals? And that's why your recovery was better at that time. >> Yeah. And and uh I think that's that's the main uh factor there is yeah you're you're not limiting yourself. You're not getting all these plant toxins that are causing a whole bunch of inflammation and stopping your body from healing properly. And also you have an abundance of proper nutrition. You have a lot of fat and cholesterol and protein as you're giving your body exactly what it needs and you're not giving it any of the crap that that screws you up. And so yeah, it's um you know that uh you know that that was a big difference for me like the day after a game normally for me I was I was just absolutely pieces. I was sore because I would play very very hard and I would I would again be very very physical and so I really made it a point I I mean there' be some games I would play in the back row so like you know seven or eight. I really loved open side flanker. That was that was always my favorite position. But I um I would go at it in a very defensive mindset. And so I was I was really focused on just making as many tackles as I could, just really terrorizing people. So I would make sometimes, you know, 30 to 40 tackles in a game at at you know, very high impact and, you know, then running the ball and doing other sorts of things. And so that takes a lot of toll on their body. And I I would sort of almost pride myself like how crippled I was like the days after that. like that's how hard I was going. But it really did take a lot out of you and it was it was very painful and difficult to to just be alive and and you know go to school and do anything. And so once I I switched to that like the next day all of a sudden I I was feeling better. I was like, I could go for a workout. Whereas it was usually until like the Tuesday that I was I was still recovering and especially if we we would go out drinking after the game. Like I would only drink drink that one day a week, but I would still be like feeling like I was running booze out of my system like on the Tuesday night practice and then after that I'm just starting to get back to normal. So it took a long time to get this stuff out of out of my system. And I basically have recovered from the damage I did to myself that on that Saturday night by the Saturday game. And so just by eliminating that nonsense out um the alcohol out certainly but also the rest of the plants like Sunday I was feeling better you know and I was feeling really good and actually not only did I not feel as as damaged but I actually felt like I was already improved like like Saturday was a really good workout and now I'm already stronger >> and then Monday I was even stronger and Tuesday I was stronger and faster and so um yeah just just you know I I I think that that has a lot to do with with what not to eat as much as what to eat. Because I see a lot of people now that I that I help out or talk to online, you know, they're saying that like, "Oh, well, I'm doing this carnivore diet, but I'm not getting the same results you are. Oh, I wish I would." And you talk to them and and quite often they think of a carnivore diet as as um you're just eating a lot more meat. And that's and that's great. You know, that's certainly, you know, part of it, but they're still having, you know, some things that they shouldn't and they're sort of holding back their their results. And it's just a little bit actually ends up doing a lot physiologically and metabolically. And so it's just sort of eliminating out those last little bits. Then all of a sudden they they get this explosion in results. So So even a little bit of these plant chemicals and obviously you know very little carbohydrates will derail your metabolism and get you out of your primary metabolic state which is taught to be a fasting state which I disagree with. I think that's our primary metabolic state. I think that's where all of our heavy machinery comes to bear. Uh that's the the biochemistry biochemical um uh position of most animals in the wild and including humans who were just eating carnivore, you know, like the inuit and and so forth. But um eliminating out those the last vestages of plant toxins and carbohydrates I I think makes make a huge huge difference. Yeah. And so that has takes a huge toll on your body. And so um you know that is probably one of the the most important parts of recovery >> and and usually obviously it varies person to person but what would examples of those foods be for people? Is it is it fruit? Is it grains? Is it sweet potatoes? Like what do you find? Is there any commonalities with that? Hey guys, just want to take a second to thank our sponsor Carnivore Bar. I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat. For those times that you're out hiking, road tripping, or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat, fat, and salt if you want it, the Carnivore Bar is a great option. So, I like this product not because it's just pure meat, but also because I want the carnivore market to thrive as well. And the more we support meatonly products, the more meatonly products there will be available in the mainstream. So, if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind, check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off, which also applies to subscriptions, giving you 25% off total. All right, thanks guys. So, so quite often, you know, people will still have, you know, little things and uh, you know, like have coffee. A lot of people like coffee and uh and they'll like sweeten it with different different sorts of things. A lot of people, you know, will have like different sort of treats with a lot of artificial sweeteners. And I think that's a hard one for people to give up. Or even energy drinks. You know, a lot of people like energy drinks and they gives them energy, you know, but but these things do other things in their in their body as well. And obviously they have a lot of artificial sweeteners. And then there's been a rise in people eating uh fruit and honey and and having just being just fruit from honey and meat and uh and that's nice. I'm sure that's enjoyable, but you know, the fructose is a harmful addictive substance and it causes harm in your body. And so I don't think that that's necessarily the right thing to do. In fact, I I I feel very strongly that it's the wrong thing to do because it's um uh you know, it's still fructose. And so, you know, people will argue, well, in the matrix of the fruit, maybe it's better. But there's actually no objective evidence to suggest that that's the case. That's just something that someone said because they hoped it was true probably, but there's no actual evidence for that. And in fact, there was a study that just came out um that Dr. Baker told me about that they put people on isocaloric uh diet and they just had uh one group and it was a you know randomized control trial where they had one group eat like you know four or more pieces of fruit a day and the other eat less than two a day and these were people who already had u you know metabolic disease and fatty liver. Uh so it's a you know it's a specific cohort but in the in the group that was eating the same amount of calories but eating more fruit they had worsening of their metabolic syndrome they had worsening of their fatty liver disease you know so the the idea that fructose and fruit or honey somehow acts differently is is well it's just not borne out by the evidence and it's has nothing necessarily um to suggest that it's so you know I mean that I know Dr. Soladadino said that he was in a discussion with Dr. Gundry from um you know the plant paradox and he and Gundry was saying look you know fructose is really bad this is it's a bad guy and uh and and Paul said that we said he challenged me say okay well you know can you show me a study that shows that the fructose in honey and fruit are as bad as you know the fructose in in table sugar or whatever oh I don't have one was like okay but do you have a study showing that it's not as bad as the other ones you know so there's no evidence one way or the other but Now there is evidence showing that the fructose in in fruit is is uh causing worsening metabolic syndrome, worsening fatty liver disease as well u versus less fruit isocchloric. And so you know I think that that is is a major one that's holding people back. I've spoken to a lot of people because this is an addictive substance. A little bit of fruit and honey can turn into a lot of fruit and honey very quickly and that is a is a very big problem. And so I've I've spoken to a lot of people over the years who have um listened to that advice and say, "Oh, I can eat fruit and honey." Like, "Okay, I'll do that." And then they start eating a little bit and a little bit more and a little bit more and then all of a sudden they start eating grains again. They're eating pasta and within six months they're eating pizza and ice cream on the couch and they've gained all the weight back and they got all the health issues back again. And uh and they don't even realize how they got there. And so I think a lot of people especially that come to to a carnivore diet or a ketogenic diet through looking for a better outlet because they have some sort of serious chronic illness or food addiction. I think it's vitally important for them to really steer clear of these sorts of things because it can it can really lead you down a bad path. Yeah, it's a good a good point because a lot of people do come into this because they were morbidly obese or have a lot of lot of excess fat to lose, you know, and and being aware of like, >> you know, that'd be analogous to telling someone who was an alcoholic like, hey, look, you can drink on Saturdays, man. You're good Monday through And so it's yeah, we need to be aware of the uh that addictive element, which is which is important. Um, some people would say, and I, so I will have fruit periodically. I mostly if it's in season, like when berries come in season, but I don't, it's not like a staple, especially I'm not going to have like dried mangoes in January, you know, when we have some apples, you know, I'll eat that. But it's really for me, and I would love you to critique me. Um, it's around exercise. So, for hiking, if I'm doing a lot of working out, you know, maybe I'll have like an apple in the post exercise window or bring some on a hike with me or something. So, that's sort of the context that it's in. But I feel like a lot of people are not exercising enough to sort of metabolize any of these things. What What are your thoughts with that? >> Yeah. Well, I think that that's um if you're going to do it, that that's certainly the way to do it. And you know, fructose has been shown to be one of the the better ways of replenishing your liver's glycogen levels. So, it's a very quick way of doing that. But when you're on a carnivore diet or even even a ketogenic diet, your body's going to be replenishing your liver glycogen, muscle glycogen pretty much constantly. You know, there were studies from wolves back in 1981 looking at this and the idea was you have to eat carbs in order to burn carbs and say, "Okay, well, what about wolves? You know, they don't carbo load before they chase caribou for 10 hours, you know, they they just they just go and and they found that, you know, do they even have blood sugar? Do they even have glycogen?" And they found out, yes, they do, but it's it's rock solid. You know, it doesn't change. And so, no matter what they're doing at rest or activity or after activity, it's it's very very stable. And so this means that your body's constantly replenishing what they're using as a fuel source. Uh which is great. And so I don't I don't think you necessarily need to. I mean you you play with it yourself. If you feel better and you feel that that's giving you something, you know, go for it. But like you say, you know, fruit is seasonal. And fruit is also very different now. It's been it's been, you know, modified through, you know, selective breeding and GMO practices more recently to be very sweet. And so like an, you know, a natural mango is not that sweet. has a lot of fibrous uh components to it's very very tough to eat and it's got a big old seed. So, it's not the same sort of thing as the mango that we would get at the store. And so, that's certainly not what our ancestors, the mangoes that we have now or even the apples that we have now are different are different beasts compared to what we would have found in the wild seasonally. And the idea that we have to have these things now, if you want to have these things and you find that they benefit you somehow, I go for it. You know, like uh I feel great without them and I I feel that I perform the best just just pure meat. But, you know, I've spoken to people and they just they just really feel that that's something that adds to them in their workout, fine. Go for it. You know, that that's I'm I'm I'm very much in favor of adults, you know, living their own life, you know. >> Um, but the idea that you have to have carbohydrates, that you have to have fruit or honey, uh, that to me I think is is is a big stretch because, you know, the people living in the ice ages did not have access to fruit or honey. And um you know and people say oh well you know people were mostly living towards the crater. No they weren't. There's a lot of of uh uh archaeological evidence of actually you know after we we came up with fire people migrating north during the ice ages >> you know Dr. Bill Schindler, who you know we we saw at um KetoCon, he was talking about this very specifically and that is what the fossil record shows is that when the ice was coming down, humans were moving up, >> you know, and um so there was no fruit and honey going up, but there were mammoths >> and they liked mammoths and you know, people crossing the land bridge across the you know, the Bearing Sea from Russia over to Alaska to populate North America, >> you know, where where was the fruit and honey there? you know, so the idea that you need it uh is completely fictitious. You know, if you want it, go for it. But, you know, the the argument that, oh, you're going to screw up your thyroid, you're going to get electrolyte imbalances, you're going to mess with your hormones. Well, then how did we exist during the ice ages going north? And how do the Inuit How are the Inuits alive now? How am I alive now? >> You know, um low thyroid is devastating. It can be fatal. And um when a pregnant woman has low thyroid that is very very damaging to the child. You get a you get a condition called cretinism uh which is uh very obvious. They have short stature. They have a you know changes physical changes to their facial characteristics and they have very low intelligence. They they it really damages the development of their brain >> and so you know and you call someone like oh you cretton or something and that's what they're referring to. Like all the best insults are are actually like medical terms and things like that. Like idiot that actually means uh someone who has an IQ of in the range between 0 and 30. >> Imbbecil is 30 to 30 to 50 and then [ __ ] was uh yes 70 to 90 or something like that and um or sorry 50 or something like that. Yeah. And so so now you know and that's uh and that's like been all the insults now. changed those since then because they they've had these these negative stigmas and things like that. But uh yeah, so that cretinism is a very devastating uh congenital uh uh condition. You would have an entire population of people with cretinism in that in those conditions if car if carbohydrates uh caused that you know but you don't and you have these people living generationally and perpetually without that. And so that's clearly not happening. So that that doesn't even really pass the smell test. And and there, you know, with all the different, you know, who guidelines on eating and and all these different sorts of, you know, governmental uh uh recommendations, the all of these people are still agreed that there's no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. You do not have to eat carbohydrates at all in your life. There are multitudes of examples of entire civilizations that have never eaten carbohydrates. So, that's certainly not the case. You do not have to eat carbs. And I would argue that it's you you're better off without them, but if you want to eat them, great. But you certainly don't have to have