We've Been Fed Too Many LIES About Our Nutrition... | Coach Stephen

I'm not going to let my education get in the way of learning new things because we learn all the time and the more I learn I don't know about you but the more I learn the more I realize I don't know and I think that's one of the things for those that don't believe or want to troll this Channel or put ridiculous comments in there you need to wake up you do need to wake up I believed it all and I absolutely was supposed to be the poster boy for the for the food guidelines and I guarantee that didn't work and it didn't work for me and it didn't work for the the hundreds of people that I [Music] trained welcome to the plant free MD podcast with Dr Anthony chaffy where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically hello everyone thank you for joining me for another episode of the plant-free MD podcast I'm your host Dr Anthony chaffy and today I have very special guest uh my friend Stephen got calling over from the UK goes by coach Stephen on YouTube Stephen how you doing I'm doing very well uh and it's nice to see you again and your lovely clinical setting there that we spoke about before we started my my historic white environment yeah um it's it's very clean as as El would say and that's all she likes it so that's good um so Stephen so for people haven't come across you or your channel can you tell us a bit about yourself uh yeah uh I'm 60 in about 3 weeks time and I've been at carnivore for 5 years um I'll start with a linear story if you if you don't mind because it took me a long time to realize about eating low carbon keto and then carnivore when I started off my journey as a teenager I was a semi-pro soccer player won a tennis tournament I think was tennis tournament I was pretty quick at 800 M at the 800 MET score record and this is not to say I'm being bigheaded this is just to say I was really interested in health and fitness uh I did a bodybuilding show in my 20s and I absolutely fell for the food guidelines didn't smoke didn't drink and did absolutely everything allegedly right porridge or as you call it oatmeal in the morning skimmed milk um fruit veg no red meat no saturated fat so you would imagine that I would be the poster boy for that way of eating and boy am I a poster boy for not doing that because as I got older things started to go wrong um I became a personal trainer then I became an advanced personal trainer I trained uh somebody to get to the Olympics uh a guy that was four stone overweight and a a chain smoker to become one of the top 20% of the marathon runners in the world so I knew my stuff when it came to exercise I wasn't doing anything other than the right things and allegedly doing the right things for nutrition but then when I got into my 30s uh things started to go a little bit South and I couldn't really work out what was what was going on and then I had an athlete come to me who was type 1 diabetic and this is where the story starts to take hold of where we're at now and I was really interested in diabetes and I wanted to learn more about it so in the end I became a specialist practitioner in obesity and diabetes and I can remember being in the in the lecture room and them saying about dosing insulin for instance that it's all in relation to carbohydrate intake and the more carbohydrate intake the more insulin you're going to need and I've just put my hand up and went well why not just reduce the carbohydrates Nob brainer to me and of course laughed out of the room absolutely laughed out of the room so anyway I continued with that journey and started to deal with clients that were diabetic and the ones that were doing really well weren't taking my advice weren't taking the doctor's advice weren't taking the practitioner nurse's advice were doing low carb and you would uh now you're hearing this in hindsight you'd want to shake me in my late 30s to say come on this is your wakeup call but I just didn't because um I was totally brainwashed I said that word properly grain washed I really believed in the whole grains and you know I had bread with bits in and every I absolutely believed it still cut oats everything I was doing everything I could to stop this weight gain I was getting now I was running um at least 10 miles a week so three times a week I was out running and I was not eating any fat and I was doing all the right things and I was just getting a little bit tubbier um I had quite a few things that started to worry me for instance I couldn't get rid of athletes foot I had a huge um terrible Mark here like someone had got a strawberry and smashed against my forehead and things were getting worse and worse I'd L lost my parents when I was young um my mother was into all the brand and um no red meat and that um so vegans out there she died of colon cancer she was doing the stuff that doesn't give you colon cancer apparently well she got it um I lost a girlfriend to breast cancer I lost my dad and they were all all following this way of life that was supposed to be really healthy so anyway get into my 40s and I start to get lower left quadrant pain and I'm nearly at this nearly the end point and I know it's a long story but it is worth going through I had lower left quadrant pain and I thought genetic that's it colon cancer for my mom colon cancer for me I was sitting in that room uh after the uh after the colonoscopy thinking this is it this is it I'm 40 yard I've done everything right and I'm going to die and uh that was another big turning point for me because uh that pain was excruciating they said there was nothing there so I just went on this bigger journey to try and find out what was going on and uh it it took me to age 50 uh then I had a coronary artery calcium scan of 639 and I spoke to the to the radiologist and the consultant and they mentioned this chap either Cummings and um that was pretty good because I I eventually ended up on his podcast not talking about this story strange enough but anyway um so yeah so I get to 50 and I discover Eric Berg and I think well there is something to this low carb all these clients are come in and doing low car maybe I should try that and to be honest that was a game Cher um and again I use the word game Cher properly because this game Cher wasn't full of propaganda this was a game Cher that actually started to make people healthier so I started to do it myself the low carb diet following um Eric Berg and I think at that point kimberry wasn't carnivore um he was he was low carb going towards keto and I did that and my lower left quadrant pane of evaporated my athletes foot evaporated this big stress spot that I used to get all the time that completely went um there's a couple of other kickers as well I've been deaf since I was 23 wearing hearing aids a lip read uh my hearing is atrocious and my audiologist was very surprised that instead of every single year where my hearing just got worse and worse it started to not do a hockey stick but it started the um the decreasing ability slowed down so that that was quite interesting but again there's a kicker when I get into to carnivore so all these things were getting better my training was getting better I recovered better from uh exercise obviously I've always been in the gym as you know still trained now still do personal training now but it's all online and it was just remarkable but um it didn't clear everything and obviously once I was in this space there's these influencer you know that you you see I don't know Anthony chaffy for instance and Ken fa and the steak and butter girl and all these people started talking about keto and then they started talking about Carnival so I went keto which i' sort of di my toe in for about two years and then at my 55th birthday um I'd now been qualified as a specialist practitioner and obesity and diabetes I was an advanced personal trainer and I'd also got qualified in photomy and I've been reading lots and lots of Bloods and I thought do you know what this is perfect because I can do all my Bloods uh and then I can go carnivore and see what difference it makes I'll do a 30-day challenge a 30-day challenge so I was 55 and I joined me Rx to uh eventually you know be an online coach there that was that was the idea so obviously um within three months my testosterone had gone up 30% age 55 just by going carnivore and absolutely every single thing that had worried me about my health completely completely resolved it absolutely everything I mean I don't take any medications I haven't for for over 10 years been to the doctor I don't get a cough and a cold all of those things and um so I started to to to coach people and it was it was it was fascinating because the people I was seeing in real life were just losing the weight but the biggest thing for me was it wasn't about body composition I now realize that's a side effect of being healthy because even people that weren't losing the weight initially were saying feel great I'm sleeping better mental Clarity is is is off the scale uh my joint pain is less my arthritis is better it just seem to cure so many things I know it's not a magic wand and I know a lot of people you know do have really big problems that are not going to be instantly resolved within six weeks but it you know having a 100 pound weight loss is Not Unusual when I was high carb up to ag50 anyone I trained I would celebrate like 7 pounds coming off and it would be hard and they'd always be hungry and they'd always be thinking about food now now I get people seriously you know uh I do meal plans and somebody said thanks for the meal plant I'm two weeks in I I've lost six pounds it's the easiest six pounds I've ever lost I'm absolutely stuffed I really look forward to eating and I don't think about food and that's really really common so it it isn't about weight loss that does tend to happen it isn't just about um feeling good about yourself or looking good naked or whatever you want to say it really is the thing that resolves your health that's it so that that's sort of my journey in a nutshell I feel the healthiest I've ever felt 5 years now Carnival I'm not going back I understand you know pretty much what's what's happening in the physiological sense oh by the way I've got an honors degree in uh physiology and Health Sciences which does definitely help even though it's mainstream that I learned from you can read those bits and then extrapolate to what really is going on so it's it's been a great journey a Learning Journey as I said to you before uh you know we started I'm not going to let my education get in the way of learning new things because we learn all the time and the more I learn I don't know about you but the more I learn the more I realize I don't know and I think that's one of the things that for those that don't believe or want to troll this Channel or put ridiculous comments in there you need to wake up you do need to wake up I believed it all and I absolutely was supposed to be the poster boy for the for the food guidelines and I guarantee that it didn't work and it didn't work for me and it didn't work for the the hundreds of people that I trained I've now got over a thousand clients that I've trained with Carnival and you know 150 success stories on video it it's it's actually quite an easy job because it works you know and it works it's that simple yeah you can make some mistakes you can get your carb Cravings back you know trigger event like something in the somebody dying in the family or something yeah it's not it's not um easy but it is simple and it's tasty and it's species appropriate that's that's the biggest thing I've learned we're eating the things that we should be eating so yeah um that's my journey so and it's nice to meet people like yourself who put themselves out there um you know you have a a big following and you have a lot of nasty comments and some complete idiots trolling you but it's nice that you just keep going out there you don't get nasty with it you just go with the facts and it's it's the easiest thing in the world to defend because it just is common sense just I just go with the common sense in the end it's common sense if you look at the stable isotop testing humans any decade any era any continent look at the long bones of collagen and you will find from those tests that every single human over the last 350,000 years have eaten at least 80% animal proteins and fats it's it's it's the way we've eaten for for those periods of time and it's it's just obvious that it works yeah so that's it yeah definitely um excuse me and and the vast majority of comments I get are extremely positive they're people that have have completely reversed diseases and illnesses and issues that no one else could ever uh think possible and then you get you other people say well all this can be explained just by weight loss from a calorie deficit it's like no idiot like you can't you can't explain you know The Disappearance of of multiple scleroses coron um you know uh and and getting people out of nursing homes with endstage dementia reversing schizophrenia and bipolar disorder and these sorts of I mean no you you can't actually explain that by uh by a calorie deficit and quite often people are going uh and and eating more calories getting um you know more energy dense food I mean I yeah I I see that all the time I I I did that I I was eating very lean meat not that much of it and a whole bunch of veggies soon as I stopped eating the veggies ate more meat more fat more calories I lost 23 pounds in in you know less than two weeks uh so no you know that's not what it is and people are are regaining their health long before they lose the weight too but um you know so those there's th those those people out there that that really don't want to look past or even ask questions or even you know they just don't care they're not inquisitive they just they just want to explain something away ah no it's probably not because of this they don't actually look to see if it's true don't actually ask somebody is like well did you eat less or did you eat more no I ate more okay that's interesting they don't they just assume W it's a calor calories in calories out can't possibly believe you must have been in a cal caloric deficit to lose weight that's the only way you can lose weight doesn't matter about your hormones or anything like that that's that's what is that that's just biochemistry you know that's not real science I have a survey damn it you know that's that's that's what matters so uh but yeah the vast majority of people have uh have been very very positive and so yeah you get the you get the occasional idiot but you know it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't cast a shadow on the amount of people that that are healing by this and you know I was actually thinking this the other day I was just like you know it actually just seemed this is like one of those things that just seems too good to be true you know and it just seems like this is just a some people selling this you know you know Doctor Who's its's you know magic cure all sort of thing and and I have to think myself as just like [ __ ] you know am I this is this really what's going on it seems too good to be true is it too good to be true and it's just like no I just there's just it just works every time and every time I apply it to a patient it has exact same results I can predict I can tell them what's going on with their blood work I can tell them what's going on with their abdominal MRI scan or their dexa scan I can tell them why there's fat deposited in in your visceral fat in your organs in your muscles can tell them why their their hormones are out of balance in these ways why their insulin's up why their leptin's up and all these other things are out of balance and uh and I say you you do these dietary changes these will all change and your life will improve in these ways and you'll get rid of your Crohn's disease and Hashimoto's antibodies will come down and all these sorts of things and then and then it happens every time and so it's um you even I'm sort of saying like I'm sort of trying like you know pinching myself okay is this is I'm actually seeing this like what's going on because it does seem too good to be true but it is true it just keeps happening you know and um so that's the thing I think that's what keeps us motivated is that just it it just works and it is true and it does make sense because this is what we've been eating this is what we're designed to eat and any animal every animal every organism should eat what they are designed to eat and nothing else for Optimal Health hey everyone really happy to announce a new sponsor for the show for everybody down in Australia Stockman staks who are delivering highquality grass-fed and finished pasture raised beef and other meats flash frozen and vacuum sealed tood door something that I've been enjoying a lot of myself recently as well they also have a great range of specialty items such as high fat keto mints and carnivore beef and organs mints with liver kidneys and beef art as well so use code chaffy today for free order of beef mints or another specialty gift along with your order at Stockman steaks.com DOA and I'll see you over there thanks guys yeah I mean there's a lot in what you just said there there's a couple of things I want to pick up on one one is the uh calorie thing but I don't deal with calories I I just deal with nutrients and I do talk about hormones uh there's a Instagram person out there called uh Karen miles who is a big fan and friend of Kelly Hogan and I think we've spoken not Kelly Hogan and I but Karen and I about undereating being a big problem in in the community and she put on19 pounds over the last couple of years even though she's carnivore and um she said well I'm going to track calories just to see and um she proved pretty much that by increasing her calorie I'm I'm not using calories in the way uh that I saying I believe in them but she did track them and and she increased the calories and her weight just Dro dropped off fact there it was it was in a spreadsheet she's just an Hest person nothing to sell no coaching nothing like that she just every single day in a spreadsheet said this is what I'm eating this is how much I've increased my food and this is the weight coming off it's you know just a fact and I think one of the things when I did my um uh diabetes training I had this gu's medical physiology textbook and I actually hijacked it for my personal training clients because if they came to me and said um they're not going to sort their nutrition out they still want to lose weight but they're not worried about their nutrition I don't believe in carnivore low carb I would say look this these I'll read you the paragraphs but these paragraphs will put me out of business right because it basically says you will increase your metabolic use of fat by reducing your insulin and you know this this is a proper medical physiology textbook and throughout it it just constantly tells you if you keep your insulin you're going to burn your fat and if your insulin's H you're not and puss this crosses over into diabetes because why do I tell diabetics to inject in different sites because if they inject insulin into a site they will gain fat it's that simple but the other thing is and this will tie in now to your calories if I have a type one I I say to them look before 1922 you could have eaten 10,000 calories and you would still have died you would have just wasted away because you have no insulin which absolutely proves that calories are rubbish as a metric because there's a person that's eating seriously 10,000 calories a day and wasting away because they don't have hormones uh that are adequate they don't have insulin to be able to store that energy simple as that soon as insulin was discovered they didn't know there was type one type two so they were still a bit mystified by it work for some people not others um and and that pretty much proves that hormones are driving fat storage not just fat storage though but muscle growth bone density it it's it's not a hormone to be scared of by the way I mean it is a hormone we need and bodybuilders you know they they want insulin to to grow muscle and stuff like that so I think there's too many pockets of common sense that proves that hormones play a big role because you got the type one diabetics proving that calories don't matter because the hormone's not there they're not gaining uh any muscle mass you know they're losing weight on 10,000 calories but it's it's one of those things that I've been interested in I put lots of experiments online um talking about uh for instance you can do an experiment a calorie the actual use of calorie is how much energy is given out to raise one liter of water by one degree Centigrade which is really quite handy to know it's about combustion so I don't think there's a naked flame in my body that's burning any of my food that's the first thing secondly so if you take a liter of water the reason they use a liter of water is because it weighs a kilogram now if you've got that in a kettle and it's at room temperature and you boil it up you actually put in 80 calories of energy into that water that water will stay the same weight that's exactly what happens now it's a kettle and people go oh yeah but you got Steam and you've just tricked yourself to people the believe in calories because that's the human body we're not a closed system so there's the thermodynamic rules that you you keep quoting are for closed systems so a bomb calorimeter if you make your Kettle a bomb calorimeter don't allow anything to leave it it will still weigh the same even though you put 80 calories in now you leave it on the countertop you walk away it loses 80 calories and it's still was the same because calories are a metric that measures heat that's it it's nothing to do with nutrition nothing to do with it whatsoever doesn't that doesn't happen in our body there's no netive there's no combustion that's not how it works it's all biochemistry it's so it it's so obvious as well because like you say I I've eaten more calories than I need I did a live experiment a couple years ago where I just um did uh three Mills a day lots of snacks all carnivore and I deliberately gained weight before the experiment started and I'd gained about 25s deliberately for this experiment first week of Ting but just Carnival Food I lost £4 then the following week I lost another 4 and uh I was saying look I'm eating 4,000 calories 3 and half th000 calories a day 4,000 calories a day I'm losing weight I'm losing the weight I gained from from eating stuff that allegedly is healthy you know so um I've now gone Carnival and it and it's taken that weight off so I think there's there's no sense in the calorie argument none whatsoever yeah no definitely I mean and you think about it as well I mean a lot of these things don't even get used for energy in the first place whether or not they would be burned we're not combustion engines as you say uh we're chemical factories these these chemicals get used chemically and they um and they're often used to make other molecules and other structural components of our body every single molecule that our DNA codes for is a protein and it has it's a string of amino acids you know add different you know carbohydrates and fats onto those things maybe but the backbone structure is is a chain of amino acids that's what the DNA codes for are strings or amino acids that's it and so and then you get you can um add things to those later but the DNA code is is for proteins for amino acids so the the proteins that you eat that those aren't being used for energy absolutely they're being used make your body your body is made out of protein and fats and you can make carbohydrates as well when you need when you need some of those so they're not even used for energy so it's like how what does it matter how much heat energy escapes from protein if you're not even using it as energy and you're not burning it and you know all you know and and and I mean it's just like it's it's so backwards to think about this um and yet yet people who purport to have taken Biology and taken biochemistry they don't even get it they they don't actually get that which is wild to me and um and just simply ignoring the hormone side of things makes no sense like you said a type 1 diabetic can't Store Muscle and fat cannot they'll waste away until they die it doesn't matter how much they eat and unless they get insulin and then people with an insulinoma are creating out massive amounts of insulin from a tumor they get enormously obese it doesn't matter what they eat everything they eat just gets stored straight into fat and they get horribly tired they have almost no energy they're feeling awful and so uh they're they're forced to eat just to sort of maintain their energy levels uh but they they really don't maintain their energy levels and and it doesn't matter what they eat they just get enormously obese and so the idea that your hormones just don't matter doesn't make any sense and if you're eating carbohydrates that's going to raise your your insulin and people forget that you we have you have people going around saying well you know you eat carbohydrates and Insulin goes up and that forces energy puts energy in the cells that's just a normal thing no it's not a it's I mean it can do that that's actually not the normal physiology the vast majority of of animal life on Earth don't do that the vast majority of animal life on Earth don't take in exogenous carbohydrates they take in protein and fat and so they make their own carbohydrates and when you add in carbohydrates like to a cow or to a sheep they add in they start storing fat I mean we we do this in order to make cows fat you know people say well the Gladiators they eat a lot of grains and and I've saw the movie Gladiator they were all ripped you know like yeah right well that's not what the Gladiators back then looked like in fact they were called The Grain eaters and that's because they ate a lot of grains in order to gain fat because that was more body armor that gave them a p area of padding uh away from their major organs and major vessels like I I I learned that 20 years ago in college you know I mean and then you know that's not the nice thing about having a classical education is and a diverse education is that you you can pick up these things someone tries to you know pull some garbage like that like hold on a second no that's that's [ __ ] and it was taught that way it was taught that way to us that the the you know Roman gladiators were called The Grain eaters and they did that specifically to put on fat so they could be more protected that's how it was taught in my in my history class and so it's um it's just sort of silly when people say that and then you know I saw someone talking about how you know it can it can store carbohydrates and they're like it also stores protein by the way like they they just had the secret as everyone no one knew but they were just so enlightened and so educated on on you know the hormones and Physiology uh the problem is is that it actually affects over 100 different processes in your body and when you start raising it up because you're eating too much carbohydrates all of those systems get out of balance and and you can get very sick and you can have a lot of things go wrong um so you can't ignore the the hormones you can ignore uh any any description of of calories though energy levels and the amount that you're taking in certainly that that has an effect on your body but they're not calories like that's not that's not the the uh the way of describing it um I did I did want to know though when you said you gained weight you intentionally gained over 20 pounds um was that by adding in carbs or how did you do that yeah adding in carbs there you go simple as that yeah I mean when you go to diabetes for instance and again this is another moment that made me um ridiculed but to me it still seems sense uh I like to have a frame of reference so when they talk about sort of the uh concentration sugar in your bloodstream I'm like well what what is that and I said oh it's easy it's a teaspoon of sugar in five liters of blood approximately speaking right okay so why would you drink a can of Coke which has no n teaspoons of sugar if if you're telling me you need a teaspoon why would you deliberately put nine teaspoons in just by drinking a can of Coke and it was like well exactly what you just said well the insulin's there it'll do it all right okay so then why would you have a pizza and maybe do 15 teaspoons that seems like ridiculous and and there's no common sense answer it is as soon as you look at it like that it is ridiculous why are you putting something into your body in huge amounts that's toxic that your body has to continually detox and get it back to the level it's just it makes no sense and I think that's that's the thing the people that love carbs just don't want to listen to sense because they love carbs and part of it is that when I was 20 I look great I did a bodybuilding show so I think a lot of it is also the people that seem to love carbs are still relatively young or they've not had any problems so they think well yeah it works for me well it works for you for for a while but that old adage about you can't out Trin or outrun a bad diet is absolutely true it will catch up on you it will definitely do that your body does not have an infinite supply of beta and alpha cells in its pancreas you have limited capacity your receptors you don't want to stress The receptors too much I mean Dr Jason fun has a nice analogy about the Japanese tube trains where um they have Porters who push the passengers in to to this cram already crammed train well that's that's you know insulin pushing in or trying to push in more energy than it really requires it's absolutely ridiculous so what what does the body do well the scope go is two things your red blood cells so it sticks the sugar to the red blood cells and the other thing is it stores stores it in the fat rather than in your bloodstream so that's that's it that's the mechanism once your body gives up once it can't keep up once your insulin sensitivity I don't like the word insulin resistance because I don't think it is a resistant thing the cell is resistant to the incoming energy because it doesn't need it but I think it's more about sensitivity and the fact that you're just overloading the system and and that makes sense to me so the the people in that train in Japan are just going no we don't want anyone we know we're in here there's no more room for a person right well that's not pter resistance that's that's coming from within the train so I think that that that to me again is is common sense all this stuff about carbs being okay and I mean um there was some guy saying you know i' I'm I've got 400 grams of carbs coming in every day I'm great I'm doing well I'm bodybuilding it's it's working well for me and I just message and said yeah okay come back in 20 years and tell me how it's going that's it because I was that person all right so I understand why they don't listen because if you're feeling great and you're looking good you know you got your abs you know doing bodybuilding shows playing well at tennis and winning tournaments you do think you're doing great I do now look back and think I could have been even greater that's the other thing you don't know your full potential and this is you know just coming back to some real Basics about carnivore for instance I know you're a big proponent of being as clean as possible and being as strict as possible and I've done that I've gone 100% carnivore and I've been 95% carnivore and the difference isn't 5% you know if you you were really on this for a long period of time I'm not saying a couple of weeks but I I mean I was really strict for about 3 months and I felt amazing I felt absolutely amazing and people don't get that um my big pressure is you know social situations with the family you know everyone wants to eat a certain way and you know we've got elderly people in the family it might be the last Christmas I don't sit there and just have meat and all this and and and I think that helps with my coaching that I am in those pressurized situations where you don't want to be that person that's spoiling it for everyone um I do flip it around and say is it really that important I eat a potato really I mean can you just not be bothered about it but some some people really are bothered about what you're eating you know or you know Auntie Jane has made this cake from fresh you can't say no to that she's done it especially so I think that's the thing um so I'm I'm s like 95% most of the time I think and a lot of times when I want to be really sharp I just go to 100% but I wouldn't touch carbs and and I proved that with with the carb experiment from you know I gained 25 in 6 weeks really easily and I wasn't I wasn't picking out and these weren't even car I deliberately picked carbs that weren't uh you know wasn't Pizza it wasn't yeah chips or crisps or anything like that it was uh yogurt for instance you know like a fruity yogurt bit of fruit every so often uh dark chocolate which is really pushed as being um great for you um I went to caffeinated coffee that you know things like that which which are pushers not that bad oh boy inflammatory uh joint pains and and body fat was is incredible and and you know I documented Everything I Wasn't hacking it I wasn't like you know midnight having a pizza I I did what I said I was doing because I actually wanted to know I wanted to prove it to myself that the things that I used to think were healthy and not too bad actually are and they were and um you know there are people out there oh yeah I'm all right with yogurt yeah okay maybe you are all right with yogurt you're not thriving with yogurt I'm not an Yogurt by the way I'm just saying there are there are certain things that you know if someone is struggling with body composition the first thing I say is are you having Dairy and dairy is one of those things that weirdly has more saturated fat than any other types of fat all foods have u a mixture of fats you know so um you know Dairy falls into that weird category where actually there's more saturated fat than other types of f so if you look at RI eye you know and people come to me and they say oh I'm really worried about this diet all that saturated fat you know I'll show them a picture of reib bind they're right how much of that do you think is saturated fat we'll get into why they think that in the first place but I like to make it real so look that's 100 gram of rib right there oh look at that it's all fatty oh I know 20% and I'm like no it's two grams that is saturated fat out of a 100 and you're really worried about that are you you know this fresh food from this grass-fed cow you're worried about that okay what did you eat last week oh I had some poptarts I had some cereals it's like okay so all this stuff in a box with this big long list of ingredients you you're worried about this bit of steak I think that's that's the thing about this way of eating it can get very sciency but in the end it's it's down to Common Sense and this is what I do with the meal plans now I get people to tell me what they were eating and and I use it not against them but I say look you know I can remember when you signed up and you told me what you were eating and and tell me how many of these are actually healthy and invariably most people are eating eating crap sadly anyway um yeah I think I think that's you know it's interesting about the Bloods you were saying about the Bloods as well because with the photomy side I get a lot of people sending me Bloods I'm I'm open to interpreting uh you know their results and what I was Finding and I found this really early on even in keto was that um you know the normative ranges that that doctors want to see and I work in you know in combination with doctors who who had comments and I talk to the labs even you know this week I was talking to a lab about how they do their omega-3 testing in relation to saturated fat and how misleading it is what they're saying um so you know I would get the most common ones we stick on diabetes for a second is people would contact me and they'd say hey I don't understand what's happening my CGM is saying my daily blood glucose is fantastic you know it's it's absolutely great and um I'm doing the finger prick every so often to test that just the CGM is all right and yeah it seems everything is fine uh I've just had a set of labs and my fast insulin is fantastic my C peptide which is a proxy marker for insulin production that's really great um but my hba1c is gone up and I'm like yeah this is really common you don't need to worry about this but of course this has a red flag and they're called in because they're pre I mean I was pre-diabetic allegedly um and I have to explain to them that it's a calculation it's not a direct measurement it's just looking at uh an assumption of the life of the red blood cells and you know I I Bor you with this before we started but when I started with photomy there was some things that we had to talk about and hemolytic anemics they're red blood cells they don't last as long as they should and one thing you get from that is a fantastic hba1c because they're not they're not in the bloodstream long enough they don't get gated and you're told to ignore the hba1c and do the other tests like a finger prick fed glucose Z peptide all that sort of stuff so it's not a bit of a leap for me to go ah well if they can die too soon for this calculation they can also live too long and give you an artificially high and that's exactly what is happening EX exactly what is happening so Bloods to me you mentioned it it's like yeah if you know what you're looking at that's really great but if you don't you get a lot of these fce flags so if your hb1c is gone up I'm going to plug me book now me book here is the guide to blood test in this context because it is important I mean I've got some case studies in there there was a you know another reading is the blood Ura nitrogen now that is basically uh impacted by protein metabolism it is impacted on the fact that those waste products are going to be higher now if you look at influences online doctors for instance talking about the blood Ura nitrogen going up they very rarely talk about the fact that it could be down to protein uh let me just shut this door that noise is anyway um if you eat more protein you're going to have more waste from protein which is what the blood Ura and nitrogen is nitrogen waste product of protein so it's going to go up now nursing websites know this so if if they're teaching people about photomy a nurse will always say if you have a high bu well just ask the the person the patient are they eating more protein it's normally just that no big deal but of course there's also a calculation based on that which is the glus filtration rate with Latin for ball of yarn because the kidney is full of these little balls of Y anyway um so it works out the filtration rate of the kidney based on these two readings and creatinine which is a waste product of protein metabolism so if you eat more protein it knocks out the GFR and it looks like your filtration rate of your kidney is low now that isn't the truth because the calc you've got this false premise at the beginning of the normative ranges are based on people eating 60% carbohydrates and generally you're quite sick so the GFR can flag up quite bad results and one of the case studies which I flash flashed up at the talk we did recently in the war on health was the this person saying you've saved my life they were they were having me up for dialysis or transplants and you were really cool and just said get a cystatin c test which is a much better marker of kidney filtration rate and um it was fine absolutely fine now that's happened that's repeatable uh and I could have literally filled that book with people worried about the hb1c and the blooda nitrogen uh which leads obviously to the GFR problem so I think when you talk about Bloods if anyone is getting Bloods make sure you get it interpreted by someone that understands carnivore or keto or the fact that the normative ranges are the best guess from many sick people eating 60% carbohydrates it's not about being optimal so you know sorry I've jumped on a little bit of a rant there but it is something I encounter all the time and you've got to be able to say look at the whole person you know and and the environment of a person what makes a person thrive is you know the way they eat and obviously things like light and darkness and getting out and about and activity and all that sort of stuff but the normative ranges don't do that they have no Nuance whatsoever they just paint everyone the same you know those ranges are not optimal I can't stress that enough and I like I'm using your platform because it it does bother me because there are influencers out there that apparently know about car addiction and all this sort of stuff that reckon the bit about the hb1c as BS H but it isn't I mean it's fact you can actually count uh you can do a reticular site count test which tests whether your red blood cells are uh being overproduced or under produced which if they're under produced in a way that you want because they're living longer which is fine because of all the other markers you you can test it so hemic anemic person you can use the reticular site count to say yep it is your red blood cells we need to do something about your bone marrow and we need to do something about production of red blood cells try and help you with this so um yeah big deal for me sorry about that but it's just it it happens all the time and I get people every week a bit worried about what their doctors said and you just think well actually these Bloods are great I mean the other thing is like the triglyceride level is um really you know much more important than LDL for instance and it's it it's constant that we're you know we're talking about this I mean the the 1977 food guidelines in the US and we followed in the in AT3 I mean all of that is based on on rubbish a rubbish premise isn't it I mean there's no randomized control trials on red meat at all incidentally I mean those food guidelines didn't even have a category for red meat it was just animal protein you know and it was it those those changes was based on a cohort of less than two and a half thousand men there wasn't even women in it so it's you know this is what we're dealing with we're dealing with these ridiculous studies um I think I think you said five I thought there were six but anyway six or five um there not many of those sorry not many in anyway not many well it's not enough so you've got two two and a half thousand or less actually people and two of those studies actually had cautions caution r t at the end one said something like um consume uh concerned about the potential toxicity of the Intervention which was removing saturated fat and replacing it with vegetable oil so you had a really big caution in that one uh and the other one was there's no place for lowfat diets in the treatment of heart attacks said that you know anyway um so when we talk about LDL I also get into you do realize that it's it's based on that and also the sugar research foundation's fraud um before that which I think you've covered on your channel many times we don't need to go over it but you know when you've got um people being worried about their health because there's influencers out there still saying stuff that's based on this fraud from the 1950s and the 70s completely provable you know the documents in Academia about this fraud yeah it it's it's amazing yeah no it is and and that's the thing it is it is demonstrably the case this is is not you know just us slinging arrows it's it's a matter of record it's published in the top medical journals in the world like the journal American Medical Association jamama you know they published the sugar research foundation's um own memos talking about how they were doing this in um you know back in the 60 years ago 70 years ago and um and that was published in the jamama in 2016 so it's like you know that's uh and you know for the amount of the amount that our society as a planet has boughten into this whole ideology you would think there would just be concrete evidence that that this was a case but no we're still arguing over this you know 50 years after you know well nearly 50 years after the um you know mcover report in the USDA declared unequivocally that this this was this was that for our health and this is this is still coming up and it was hot debated before that in the literature and outside of it and so you know the if the if the case was closed you'd think there' just be just this huge body of experimental data and evidence showing this but there's there's only that handful and they all show the opposite none of them support the cholesterol model of heart none of them not a single randomized control trial in existence Force the cholesterol part hypothesis and most of them go actually directly counter the largest one in 9600 patients it was like the Minnesota coronary uh heart study done by our good friend anel Keys almost certainly paid for by the sugar companies and they had 9600 patients they were institutionalized so that they couldn't go anywhere they you could perfectly control every meal that they had and they replace saturated fat with margarine and and and vegetable oils and what happened they followed them for years they perfectly controlled their diet they replaced saturated fat with margarine they lowered their LDL cholesterol and total cholesterol and as a result killed a lot of people with heart attacks and strokes and so um you know and what where was that you know why wasn't that taught in medical school why was it why were we taught the Framingham study which is a correlational study and um it's you know prospective cohort study it's that that cannot show causation and in fact showed no correlation whatsoever between uh cholesterol and heart disease um and in fact lower cholesterol was correlated with higher cardiovascular mortality rates but you know where was this randomized control trial that was done in the in the 70s why wasn't that out well that's because you know they didn't that was done by anel keys and he didn't want that showed the wrong thing and so they buried it for for 40 years and had to be uncovered by ramsten over the NIH and 40 years later and we're still arguing about this you know like you said this was a fraud and now they're saying well first it was cholesterol and then it was like well there all these different kinds of cholesterol and like oh okay well it's LDL that's good cholesterol and bag cholesterol oh well there's 100 different kinds of LDL all right well it's oxidize sdldl and okay well what oxidizes it it's sugar it's it's carbohydrates it's seed oils it's alcohol well it's you know and then the Apple be and you know it's just like it's just they're just shifting the goalpost it was never cholesterol it's never going to be cholesterol so well but what if it gets too high what if it get really high is there too high probably your body's not going to do it though just like your body's not going to physiologically put you into an alkaline state or an acidotic State overly acidotic state or over alkalin State uh because you'll die you know your body is going to control that and so if your body's left up to its own devices like you just fast you don't need for 5 days what happens your HDL goes up your LDL goes up triglycerides go down you know total cholesterol goes up so you know that's what your body's trying to do at homeostasis that's at rest you know you're not adding any inputs there that's what it's trying to do and so yeah maybe it can go five times higher than that maybe it'll do something but you know what it won't do cause heart disease because it does not doesn't matter what level your cholesterol is it it is not a cause of heart disease even if cholesterol is utilized or used by some inflammatory process or some pathological uh process going on in your body it's not the high levels of cholesterol that is driving that reaction it's something else that's damaging it damaging your body damaging the lining of your of your arteries and uh and driving that that reaction but it does not come from even elevated past where I would say they're good at that's it's never going to cause heart disease it'll do it'll probably do something else you know but it's not going to do that yeah I mean it like you say it's just a a long list of ridiculous assumptions I mean it all starts doesn't it in the 1900s and you had these Russians doing autopsies on people and going oh there there's somebody that's died and look there's some fatty deposits it must be that and everyone uses the analogy of firefighters at the fire you know it's it's it's probably there to to cause some sort of comparative thing and I I think I mean that's gone on and on and I think they just wouldn't give up on it so they fed rabbits those wellknown meat eaters um you know cholesterol to see what happened so you're giving the rabbit the wrong food uh I still didn't prove it even with rabbits so you know the problem with anel keys is he did one really good study which is the Minnesota starvation experiment he was the man wasn't he you know and he did well with that particular one and he had to be at the Forefront I think I think he ego is well documented so then he he's got the same Mo so he does a six six country study many people think this is interchangeable because he he later does a seven country study but he did the one to prove cholesterol heart disease he only included the six countries out of the 14 he looked at and then later on he did the seven country study uh which had 22 countries so here's a cherry picking guy that is that is the base of all these influences lately and um you know the 20 volumes of his studies if you read them you find out the saturated fat was coming from cake and ice cream so it's it's just not red meat at all it's just absolutely ridiculous um you know and I think there was a good thing Dr Malcolm Kendrick did with Zoe harkham and they they actually got the who um data for 192 countries and they looked at all CA mortality and cholesterol levels and heartless deaths and um it absolutely showed an in inverse Association so basically from2 countries wh documentation I can't share the graph because I think it's copyright but um the the higher the cholesterol the less lesses the death rate and what Zoe harkham and I think Malcolm Kendrick have said is when they've shown doctors the chart they've gone oh wow it's worse than we thought they can't even read the chart R worrying so uh I think yeah you know that is my pet hate at the moment and also you know with the Bloods there's Nuance to that because like you say they're trying to find other cul brids so you get into I like what you said about the oxidized LDL well what causes that yeah you're right it's sugar you know it's carbohydrate it's causing that but they forget that they just oh it's it's really bad because it's LDL you know so it must be fat based which is ridiculous in the first place but anyway so they use that and and I had a gentleman come to me and he said oh I'm at high risk of a heart attack because my PL 2 test or plaque test is is is called it's quite clever it's called plaque you know um apparently that's a that's a mark of high risk for heart disease now the problem is that's going to the force premise as well because you have that high when your LDL is high therefore it must be a problem now if you know a little bit about what the plaque test looks at it's an mzy that did grades oxidized LDL and I just said to the gentleman actually that's really good cuz your body is is trying to fight the oxidized LDL 30 years of vegan by the way just thought I'd throw that in um and three months later it had done its job because the oiz oio had plummeted it was back in the graen and and it was totally fine so I think that's that's the thing they're fighting two for nail to hang on to this it takes a big man to go do you know what I've got 20 years of material out there and I'm actually wrong right and I think that's that's the biggest problem we're facing and somebody said you know the rules won't change until everyone that did the rules has died and I think that's the problem we got too many people on a save face whereas IID have more respect for someone saying yeah I just realized I was completely wrong about odl and and I just bought into all the rubbish because there is too much evidence out there that that it isn't that and we're looking at the wrong things or mainstream medicine is looking at the wrong things so that's my take on that yeah hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want a nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option so I like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25% off total all right thanks guys no I I totally agree and that's great about the plaque test as well I love that about the reticul sites also um and I might get you to uh you know for Ju Just to go back over that again just for people that hear that because that is something that comes up sometimes I explain you know this sort of the same thing uh to you but it's very good um because I actually um didn't even think about it from a reticul side account but that that makes perfect sense and this is something that people can can go home and test and they say oh okay well look you know this is something we can do so uh but yeah just just a comment about Anil Keys um you know we did that really good uh you know Minnesota starvation study you know where first of all proved calories in calories out not a thing you know because he starve these people they're eating basically nothing and they were losing weight and then it plateaued off because their metabolism shut down and uh some of these people were eating so little calories that they if it were just calories in calories out they they would have lost more weight than they started with so they would have just popped out of existence and um and so that's the thing you know I mean you have to you had to have do done something good to get some authority to then sell to the highest bidder like you like the the uh on scrupulous bastard he was and um and you know and I think that he probably was in his element with the starvation study being some sort of you know evil sociopath that just hated people and just was probably very happy to starve them to death and and cause all sorts of harm to them and then he decided to sell his his favor out to the highest bidder to then go and become one of the greatest mass murderers of all time I mean he's responsible for probably billions of people at this point getting heart disease and and um and many hundreds of millions of people dying early of heart attack text I mean that's that's him and if it wasn't him it' been someone else and that that Tri that argument did not work very well during the nurg trials so I don't think it's going to really work for him um you know I've said this before but the only reason I'm I'm a bit upset that he and his Confederates who sold out the health of the world um are are now dead is that we can't put them on trial and execute them for their crimes against humanity because it's it's truly sick what they did to people and we just we really need undo their entire Legacy and throw their entire life's work in the trash because people say like well you know they've done some good work we don't know we don't know what was corrupt when the corruption started what was compromised and I you know I just think you just throw all of that out and um uh and just and just put them in the dust bin as a as a human being and just have them die in obscurity um but that's just my little rant about someone I hate so um which is probably not good for you to do that but um but so so can you you explain a bit so if someone if someone has a has been on Carnival for a while and they've been they've been very good about it and then you know their blood sugars are actually pretty normal and their hb1c is this little upper normal and and so that calculated uh blood sugar level is higher than they would think that that should be what can they do looking at their blood work to uh to see if this is normal or if this is actually oxid or or um laded hemoglobin yeah um well first thing look at the common sense if they've got a continual glucose monitor that is what it says on the tin it's continually monitoring your glucose all right I know it's not exactly from the bloodstream but we know it's calibrated and it's pretty good uh and many people that also do the fingerprint test and can can sort of collaborate collaborate you know with the the evidence they can say right this coming from my blood this is right so that's the first thing and that gives you an average and this is this is the first flag so they're like well my daily blood glucose reading is is great what why is the hba1c high so that's the first thing uh believe your blood believe the things you've been doing every single day 24/7 being constantly monitored pick your fingers every single day if you're worried about it and and and you'll see the average you can work the average out yourself you say all right actually I'm managing my blood glucose really well three times throughout the day after food whenever you want to do it just get a good handle on it for your own sake right but if you want to have the data well you can go and get a blood test and you can get your fasted insulin your fasted blood glucose and I think called C peptide measured now this so this is the next stage and C peptide is a great proxy marker for how much insulin you're producing because when the vesicle bursts open and off goes insulin off goes Cleaves off the C peptide and the half life of insulin is is much quicker than it is for Su peptid so you get this really good rating so you could say oh actually you know my blood glucose is good I'm not producing lots of insulin I still really want to know why is this wrong so then you could look at well how are they calculating the hba1c what are they doing well the big key is they are assuming the life of the red blood cell literally your hemoglobin is having bits stuck to it I mean you know that's that's very basic and they they're just looking at that now if your red blood cells are floating around for longer because the spleen is not looking at them and thinking wow the these are terrible red blood cells we can we can keep them for a bit longer your body is really smart it's making a million red blood cells a second right so it doesn't want to go through all that energy and uh recycling the proteins if it can help it because the body's smart so your red blood cells are lasting longer and like I say I can't get get into this enough because if people argue well this is s we say well hang on a minute if if I came in and I was anemic I was hemo hemolytic anemic what would you do oh well for that you would have a very great hp1c because your red blood cells they're dying so quickly there's not a chance to be located and so we'd do a ridiculous sight count and we'd actually prove to you that there's a huge turnover of red blood cells you're making too many you know they can't be living they must be being K what off in the spleen because you wouldn't be producing so much there would be other signs if they was sticking around for too long and you had too much blood that that that's wouldn't happen so I'll have a see well I'll I'll have a reticul it count test then please because I want to prove that my red blood cells are living longer and that's what happens that that is what happens every time what you said how predictable it is I never Panic as long as those other markers are okay um which they always are is your daily blood glucose good yes is your fasted Insulin good when you have the penel yes right okay go and get that reticular site count you will get push back you will get push back but if you ask for it you will get it eventually you might have to pay for it um you know in the UK it's very difficult to get but people have got it in the states it seems to be a bit easier there's it's cheaper to get a private test as well where you don't need a referral from a healthc care professional but but that's it I mean it really is that simple yeah um and then then you categorically have that I don't need to worry about that anymore because um the way we're eating is is so good for the body my red blood cells are great you know there there are other nuances you can look at like there's an RDW the sort of uh red red blood cell width and you can look at other things if you're worried about what's happening but normally I've yet to find anybody that's had the red blood cells living longer and any other problems yeah so you know you can do the complete blood count if you want um but I don't feel it's needed yeah you know that's it yeah yeah no I I yeah I agree it's um well you know I mean some it's the reassurance Factor you know I mean there are a lot of blood tests that it's just like yeah you probably don't well what about this what should I do that I'm like well it's not not necessary it's not really going to change anything that we do um but you know it's just sort of if you if you want to see and you want to check it's like i' I'd feel better if we checked it fine check it it's your dime yes and um and some of these things you know they they would be paying for themselves anyway and so if they want to pay for it I don't I don't care you know if they're interested in it um you know tell them I do have a I do have a video explaining it all on my channel as well yeah literally says should I worry my hba1c is gone up know yeah pretty straightforward yeah but yeah all all of that stuff's in the book all of what I just said it's all in there yeah so what other sorts of things are in that in in your book the uh um what sort of other tests and everything like that do you go through that people can can look for or or you know what what the things that that what are the things that the book addresses and so who is it who is it um who would it be good for right uh well firstly it puts in context because a blood test is a snapshot you know you woke up this morning you probably felt different to now and your body will react and if we did your blood panel now and we did it tomorrow it could be different so the first thing is it is a snapshot so you need really to see Trends so I'm not overly happy with one blood test if someone comes and says I've been doing this every three months the last uh nine months ah great we can see a trend because even dehydration can throw some of the numbers out but if you've only got one blood test it's still a good starting point but it's not the b or an endo because I can't work out what happened before and predict what's going to happen afterwards we've just one same with two we still don't really have that trend line you know so um so it talks about that talks about the context what blood actually is why why it's important and all that sort of stuff and then it just gives you the basic sort of what you want as a carnival keto or low caror what test you really want and it then says right if you're worried about your liver these are the things you need because very often Bloods come to me and I'm like you're worried about your liver but they haven't done ggt for instance it's really crucial to understand to do a differential diagnosis your doctor needs that to be able to look at the other 3M Zs that they normally look at uh so we talk about that you know if you're thinking about a specific thing like liver or kidney health or you're looking at glucose if you're looking at LDL these are the on thyroid of course that's that's a big one so it just talks about those in general and then the sort pitfalls for each type of panel um in the context of the way we're eating so it explains the normative ranges and their limitations basically the limitations of normative ranges then it gets into common misconceptions or misinterpretation of results that are flagged and therefore you're freaking out and why would that happen and then it gives you the it gives you the equipment and the knowledge to be able to say ah if you do this test this will actually be the killer test that we need to do so for instance with the GFR you do the Sy I'm giving away all my details I don't mind actually by the way I'm cool with all this if if your GFR is low and you're eating a lot of protein get the systa in SE test that will probably put your mind at rest which happens time and time and time again I'm not saying people don't have kidney problems or any of these things the idea is to to know a bit more in the context the way we're eating so so that's it really I mean that's it each panel has a killer test that's often missed so thyroid the classic would be not doing reverse T3 not doing both antibodies that would be classic um or just the TSH which isn't even the thyroid hormone tells you nothing really just tells you what the thyroids been told to do then then tell you what it did so it's it and it's plain English that's the idea it's not a thick tone it's referenced um you know there's a bit of fun in there sort of all all the myths about blood you know whether it's blue or red or whatever you know it talks about that at the beginning to bit a bit light it then gives you reference ranges American and sort European ranges but there's also that disclaimer that it does depending on the labs this is a big problem I'm I'm facing because I'm worldwide M some Labs have slightly different reference ranges but that also shows what a mockery it is because they've got different ranges so how are they doing that are they basing it on a database of the people they've seen in the area and then you get into you know I don't get to woooo but you know that where you live and what your genetics especially from your mother's side you know your your environment makes a big difference to how we interpret the results this is already known and actually publicly put the test if it's kidney for instance if you're you know European or if you're of African descent it's different you have to look at it even though it's the same blood you know the same lab and you're living in the same country it can be different and I think that's you know that's one of the big things that you know we talk about diets a lot but I do believe there's you know a lot more we could be thinking about like environment you know you're big with the the plants and fruits and stuff like that I so am I we're not designed to eat that but we're also not designed end to live in another environment and just um take over what the way those people are living so I couldn't live in central Africa easily like that you know and I think that's another thing we have to get the context of well where were you living what's in the environment has that changed your Bloods temporarily you know just to make this really basic for people this is what I say in the consultation if you go to the Garden Center to buy a plant it will have a list doesn't like shade you got a it minimally you've got to do this You' got to do that it likes the sun it likes lots of water you have to feed it every 3 months well that's because that plant is from an environment which you have just artificially taken it from and put it somewhere else but that's the same as humans you know if you're in central Africa you know that's the um the L zero type which is latitude zero your Bloods are going to be different because your mitochondria are absolutely geared up to movement not heat so we get into like you know decoupling the mitochondria and all this sort of stuff so if you've come from that area and you're now living in Britain rain cold your mitochondria are not programmed for heat which they will be I mean that's the thing we're adaptive as a species so somebody come into this way of eating it's exactly the same if they've been eating in giving their body this environment and also maybe the you know a bad environment generally not getting getting out not doing activity not seeing sunlight all those sort of things you look at the bloods in the full context of the person if someone comes to me and says you know my my 9 to5 job is sitting in front of a computer then I go home and I sit and watch the television and I'm on the couch my Bloods I want you to interpret okay well I'm actually going to include those other things which not many people do because we can look at so many different tests to work out what's going on um you know CRP is a really good one and people say I've got real pains in my knees what's causing that you'll love this right so we do an h hscrp and it's 0.5 right there's no inflammation in your body from your CRP but I reckon that something you're eating is doing it and because it's something you're eating or like coffee that you're drinking we're not going to get a big CRP but we're going to get a lot of joint pain so it you get into really personalized nutritional analysis of the Bloods and you can actually explain right this blood test tells me you haven't got inflammation but you have right so and that's that's the idea of it because you're very experienced at this right I reckon if someone walked into that room now apart from saying you need some pictures up on the wall once they've told you what's going on I reckon you'd be a to say well my gut feeling is this you would you would know that because you know the environment you've seen lots of people doing this way and I think that's the thing I'm quite passionate about this maybe that's coming across that Bloods are not numbers they are people people first number second and it should be that way around if there's a clinical presentation of a problem and gout is a classic because I've had people with huge levels of uric acid and no gout and I've had people with no uric acid to speak of and their gout is terrible well then you can look at them and say right okay what you doing you having a lot fruit yeah I'm having a lot of fruit okay right okay well let's just take that out let's see what happens you don't need more expensive blood test you know and I think that's the thing I might be shooting myself in the foot because you know people do come for consults about Bloods but you know try some common sense things first if you've heard Anthony chaffy talk about the inflammation effects of caffeine knock it out your diet or coffee take it out your diet see if that works save yourself for Fortune do something like that and this is where Carnival is brilliant because it's the total elimination of foods doesn't mean you can never eat them again you could go lion you right okay I have now established it is food that that's what's brilliant about this they go lion wow everything clears up pretty much right okay now don't be stupid and start introducing everything introduce one thing you like pork used to eat a lot of pork put pork back in see what happens ah put pork back in it's great great six weeks I can you it's great I feel great right it doesn't seem to be pork he let's do the big one let's put the dairy back in four weeks later you know inflammation brain fog whatever I'm not anti-dairy by the way it's just a common culprit of course there a problem so that's it and then you get that informed consent within your own personal space right if I want to feel a bit groggy for three days I am going to go and have that I'm going to piig out I'm going to have um some yogurt and I'm going to really enjoy this that and the other my auntie's house at least I know that when I stop it you know by Wednesday I'm going to be fine again and I think that's that's the thing I want to live in the real world I don't want people to think I'm never going to have this again I really really like my yearly carrot cake on my birthday right have it just except that tomorrow you're going to ache a bit and then it's going to be gone so yeah I've gone off the blood test but the blood tests are important because they they reveal things I mean you know it's not always a better roses people will send Bloods to me and I'm like wow okay you do need to do this follow-up test you do need to do this because this is not a good look so something like uh the liver enzy doesn't happen a lot uh and it very well I don't have it with people that are Carnival for a long time normally it's when they've come to Carnival and it's the first three months so it's probably something from the past you know these mes that the liver mes don't look good in in relation to each other actually that's another thing it's not necessarily sometimes the absolute value or one thing it's you know with liver enzymes you tend to do like a a gra a visual graph and then you can see uh the ratios very easily and then you can go right okay you need this test because we just want to rule this out it's it's more that than um anything else so you know um very rarely you do a melonic test for B12 but some people might come in with incredibly High B12 but doesn't seem to be working for them um so you can do a test which is not a standard panel that actually looks at whether that B12 is actually getting into the cell or whatever so yeah there's a lot lot to it sorry I was going to give you a short answer but I long answer no that's great but it is yeah it's a passion of mine yeah no yeah no that's great and it's and it's important to say these things you know I mean like you said these the reference ranges they're different in every single lab why the hell is that because it's you know and you we as doctors and we as patients look at this and go oh I'm I'm in the range that's the optimal range that's where I'm supposed to be but that's not what that is that that's not an optimal range that's just the average range for the community and but we're treating it as it's an optimal range but it's not an optimal range so we need to recogn I flip that very quickly can I just sorry to interrupt Anthony but that that's the other thing that's the flip of it is you'll get them and they'll be perfect and the doctor will say there's nothing wrong with you and you go but I'm in agony yeah you know so that is the flip yeah and that happens too people will come and I'll say your Bloods are perfect in inverted cumers so what's what's wrong so that that's a that's another way of looking at it as well and and that happens that does happen yeah absolutely i' I've I've spoken to many people who said that that you know they go to their doctor and and everything's fine their doctor says yeah no look everything's fine it's like yeah well I don't feel fine so like obviously you're just not you're just not seeing what's going on and so and that's another reason why I think that would absolutely revolutionize medicine just that if we actually used optimal lab ranges um that we were treating as optimal lab ranges right U because retreating is optimal but they aren't optimal and so if we started doing that then all of a sudden your doctor saw just like all these Reds just like oh oh oh God oh God you know they would they would have to they would have to get up do something well they at least have something to go on they say okay well look all this is out like we need to figure out what the hell is going on here um but you know the problem is is is that they don't and so that was it was funny there was um I had a patient that was talking about that and her her GP um you know was all excited after our consultation and or or the patient was excited about our consultation went to their GP and said oh look they explained all these reference ranges I was like oh no no that's ridiculous and I was like well then why is it is it different in England and Spain and down the street at a different L well you know the you know the environment matters for B12 okay you know I I guess just you know I guess you know you know thiamine just doesn't matter in in Hungary you know it's like it's just like just like everyone has berry berry then no one has berry berry I guess you know it's just it's it's it's a very very close-minded way of thinking which it's just stupid really because it like it is an average that's not you know if people are sick in one area and the blood tests you know show that and um you know that doesn't mean that's normal You Know You're just showing that they're sick you know and then we're just saying no no it's normal because everyone's doing it everyone yeah well everyone's you know blind and have you know have their limbs chopped off well that's normal because everyone everyone does that you know so it's uh it's fine in Rome everyone had lead poisoning well that's normal you know you're supposed to be sick you know it's like no it's not normal it's just it's just it's just the norm just you know people have it but no I think that's I think that's uh very good to point out that these um that you have to be you have to understand the lab ranges and and what they are they're just they're just averages and and and to to understand the lab test especially in the context of changing your diet as well it's very important um I was going to say as well you know we were talking um you know before we h on is a bit of a non Seer but I I really like something you said when we're talking about um fiber and and saturated fat and I was sort of talking about I sort of um ranting about oh yeah yeah some some doctors that were going off about the keto diet oh is a keto diet any good and these guys literally had no idea what they're talking about I think everything they do is scripted they're almost certainly paid shills um they've done things on o zic and um you know talking about oh hey yeah was is good and we'll talk to an endocrinologist oh how great that is I'm like are you being paid by OIC you know like I bet you are and then they did some things for like Prime energy drink about oh hey you know is this good or blah blah blah and it's like you you guys have to be getting paid for this I mean this is just this is I mean you're just embarrassing yourselves at this point but they said that um that the ketogenic di is good well you know there some some uses for diabetes hasn't really been shown for mental health or anything else but you know is like longterm I mean it doesn't have any fiber so it's not going to be good longterm like yeah it's all about the microbiome and all that sort of stuff and I mean failing to realize that ketogenic diets commonly use uh fibrous vegetables and in fact a lot of people think that's exactly what you're supposed to do you're supposed to have a lot of vegetables and um and so they they didn't even realize that so I mean that That's how little research these guys put into their their videos which is a shame because they have a big Channel and a lot of reach and they clear Al just phone it in for these these videos which is just Reckless um but you made you made a very good point about the uh the fiber side of things and how um how they're bit mutually um they make some mutually exclusive uh statements the same sort of people um yeah seem to contradict if you go into that yeah well I mean we were talking about fiber and and I often use what is fiber so it's an indigestible polysaccharide so it's it's lots of sugar you can't eat and these people don't like that sort of basis but um the big thing they always says well it makes short chain fatty acids your your Fiber goes into your system and then they make these short chain fatty acids well what is a short chain fatty acid it's a saturated fat so these people are also the ones that tell you saturated fat is bad so you need to get your act together guys is it good or is it bad is the fiber producing sat fat that's good and therefore saturated fat is good or is saturated fat bad and therefore fiber is bad I mean that's actually the consistency I'm always talking about common sense yeah so which one is it and that's the thing every single person that seems to push fiber also is one of those people that think saturated fat is bad and yet their biggest selling point for fiber is that it makes short chain fatty acids for the bacteria and that is a saturated fat it it's literally clueless and I see I would never come on here and think right I'm going to say something and then at the end of it I'm going to say something completely contradictory to what I said earlier and if I did and I played it back I'd be like wow that makes no sense I've just said something that's nonsensical I can't go out one of those things has got to be true so they've got to they've got to drop one line they can't have both simple as that yeah definitely and and um and the other thing that these guys failed to understand too is like where's the evidence that you need fiber for your microbiome anyway you know that's assuming the fact that's not an Evidence there's no there's no actual hard data showing that you know I mean I I you know there may be some some uh associative studies there's no there no experimental data showing that fiber in all situations improves the the composition and diversity of your microbiome um if anything it would be you know U plant-based processed food diet that is lacking in fiber and then eating more whole food diet that has more fiber and oh more fiber better microbiome it's like okay was that is that the case in carnivores if you're only eating healthy meat right so where's that study oh wa yeah there was one with just looking at the Inuit and looking at their microbiome and it's extremely healthy and diverse and so well there goes that theory that you have to have uh fiber and then what is happening in the real world with people that are trying this they're going on a on a clean omnivorous diet with plenty of of leafy green vegetables and fiber or even like a clean keto diet with plenty of fibrous um vegetables and they're dropping all vegetables all fiber only going meat and their microbiome is actually improving Ben is Adi just talked about this a couple weeks ago that he's been he's been clean keto for years and he got his microbiome tested and it was all right lot of meat lot of fiber lot of plants no sugar no crap average sort of microbiome and the suggestion was eat more fiber eat more leafy greens eat less bread meat eat you know eat less meat in general and that's the recommendation but what's it based on right it's based on nothing and so what did he do he did the exact opposite of what they recommended he got rid of all fiber got rid of all plants and only ate meat and mostly red meat and you a few months later he had an exemplary microbiome with beautiful diversity and all the microbes that you wanted and in perfect levels so you know again literally zero research on the part of these guys and but you know that that pushes out these false narratives and then you get you know these internet um you know these internet professors that you know saw one video by by these uh by these guys and then they they they just assumed that they're correct and they' that without any evidence either being asked for or provided you know I looked in this study there's no there's no studies listed showing anything backing up anything that they said there's absolutely nothing to show the veracity of the claims that they've made and we can just see in in simple real world terms that does not happen what happens is when people drop plants and fiber and only eat meat their microbiomes improve and if doesn't agree with the experiment is wrong it doesn't matter what your theory says yeah and I think that you you hit the nail on the head there about like the diversity because actually the definition of a healthy gut microbiome this is honestly true because I've looked into this is the microbiome held by a healthy person so you get this Circ there's no actual definition and when they do the the labs and I'm speaking to a lab about this actually I mean 50% of that matter that's going to be uh sampled is unknown it's still unknown there's so many bacterias that are unknown and unclassified so it's a it firstly it's a really big guess secondly there is a problem because they also base some of their testing on previous assumptions about say saturated fat so just going off the microbiome but if you look at omega-3 if you have a higher levels of saturated fat or evidence of saturated fat in your um in your sample because because the mainstream says saturated fat is bad for you you get a bad score on your omega-3 simple as that it's nothing to do with an absolute level of Omega-3 um so a lot of testing lacks that Contex I mean I haven't got into those other tests yet and you know I am looking at those now and talking to Labs about that because I've done Bloods for years and years and years you know I felt I could get into this uh you know I used to offer the private blood tests in the clinic before the restriction and stuff and in thousands of Bloods well I haven't done thousands of of microbiome tests and omega-3 tests but I have lots of clients that are starting to do that and I am seeing Trends where it's still basing uh the results or the conclusions on assumptions not on absolute levels and on no actual facts because when um not challenged is possibly the wrong word but when I approached the lab for sort of confirmation of how they've arrived at this conclusion it's never forthcoming it they can't do it they can't do it and you know uh and again it's an industry I'm not knocking it's just something I'm interested in like the hair analysis you know I deliberately did some test hair analysis at the same time as I did some poop and saliva tests and stuff like that and they do not they don't match up at all uh and according to my hair analysis the last thing I should be eating is red meat so you know it's wrong I mean it's categorically wrong flat out wrong and some of the foods that I should be eating more of allegedly when I did eat them I had the worst Health ever uh now that's an N equals one but let's double that because my wife did it at the same time exactly the same thing things he definitely categorically does not you know thrive on she should be eating and my one just to get a bit more personal up until age 50 I was hospitalized three times from meeting Cod where it wasn't in the list of ingredients by the way I'm not an idiot I didn't eat cod three times over my life and get hospitalized um Cod was putting these fish cakes and stuff like that and not listed well apparently Cod is the thing I should be eating I should be eating tons of cod but I've been hospitalized I mean seriously Hospital the last time it was so bad the junior doctors I I I was in a sort of uh on a bed with a you know a thing curtain around me and the doctor would put his head in and look at me all right okay like that second one B about the fifth one I'm like could you just tell me what's going on and they said oh yes uh the consultant said You' got to go and see this guys this is horrendous you know so swollen and stuff but anyway according to my hair analysis that's the food I should be eating but I can categorically Say It Isn't So I mean it it's interesting that you're getting into this because the the testing is is very nuanced and is the P the person has to go first you treat the person not the numbers the numbers can help you uh they certainly can you know indicate Trends uh but if your premise at the beginning is incorrect and again I mean you know philes Scott and Ben I think you're doing a thing with them I did their war on health talk and uh I went into chat GPT and I put in what is the average speed of a a male of age 30 over 100 meters how long should take for them to run that now chat GPT said 10 seconds oh yes that the reaction is exactly right now there's my false premise there is my falce premise that people should be running an average M should be able to run the 100 meters in 10 seconds right what as soon as you believe that from the mainstream then everything else is is skewed so if I have somebody come in you know you come in as a a client of mine and I say Anthony how quick are you over 100 meters I can do it in 14 seconds I'm like oh what's wrong with you wow in reality that's pretty quick and and you just have this you know this domino effect and you know going back to things like L when you start with fraud you have this huge domino effect of rubbish data and you make all these conclusions about people you know the the joke was I know I put a slide up of Phil escort just slightly behind us say bolt you know it that's not true it's just ridiculous it's absolutely ridiculous but that could be taken as fact and if it's I mean chat GPT everyone talks about how you know bad it is and it is really bad but it's supposed to be the allseeing artificial intelligence that can answer any question right so a novice out there were going oh really wow I'm really really slow I mean I take 19 seconds that's really bad and that that's sort of analogous of what we've been talking about with the Bloods and stuff like that or you these idiot doctors if you believe something and again going back to you know this false premise there's also this SP you know it's healthy by proxy because oh this food is really good because it it lowers your risk of cardiac uh disease okay so well you know well how did you get to that claim oh because it lowers LDL oh okay so what you're saying is you have no proof MH because you're using the pro see just because it lowers LDL you've you've got to believe that LDL lowering is good for your heart for that food to be worth it and that happens I mean that's there's hundreds of examples of that where they say that's going to lower your risk of cardiac disease and uh it's all based on the fact it lowers your LDL yeah definitely so um just speaking of what you mentioned at the beginning here that um you know after lifetime of doing it right and doing everything the right way that you had you were sick and you had a CAC score U you up over 600 6.9 yeah yeah how how um has that changed you've gotten that chested since then like how are you doing now right okay uh the reason I'm a bit flushed is because I played soccer right and I'm 60 right now at 23 I was told i' being a wheelchair by 50 I was shown very convincing images that I was going to be in a wheelchair by 50 I was also told my hearing wouldn't get better and I did say i' save a kicker to the end all right so um here I am at 60 playing Five side soccer coming in doing an interview no problem no problems whatsoever no sign of a wheelchair fif uh you know 50 I should have been in a wheelchair 60 I'm not uh but I am still flushed so you know I can get out there right now the CAC due to the restrictions there's a huge waiting list for for scan so I haven't had a a scan I was going to have another scan but I'm going to wait until the waiting list that's gone down because I'm not going to take this for biohacking purposes I can't take the place that somebody else who might need it because they're seriously ill I can't just I can't jump the queue like that there's too big a waiting list as soon as that waiting list from the NHS has gone down then I will just pay for a test and I I'll come back and tell you but what I can definitely tell you is my hearing slightly improved no so this audiologist same machine um like I say so you know not straight away because obviously he wouldn't be old enough but uh 23 I had these things and it's just getting worse and worse and worse and worse and then it started to slow off but it was still getting worse then when I went carnivore had a tick up I'm not saying my hearing is great I still need my hearing aid still need the kit still need the subtitles but um so my audiologist who is now a friend and you know I was texting him and stuff like that so we you know years and years and years the reason I say that is cuz even though he knew me he would not believe that eating this way could make a difference and I said to him look I'm really boring I do the same training I eat the same food you know I live in the same area uh I don't do smoking or drinking the only thing that's changed is what I'm eating can that is the only reason can only be that it's like it just can't be well I think it is I think it's localized inflammation just gone down my us station tubes whatever it is the mechanisms I mean this is my honors degree was all in this I was very interested in the sematic centy part of the brain and you know uh descending Pathways and ascending Pathways of pain and all that and hearing was one of those things and perception so it's really interesting for me um that a simple thing uh has helped I I think it's just down to the localized um inflammation just just improving from the environment that I'm eating and I think um it would have been nice to have that data but obviously that's data it's really difficult to get and the NHS are not great at giving you your own medical records and things but it's it's it's provable by um I just show you actually I have an app on my phone for my hearing aids and um this isn't actually it wants me to do an upgrade but anyway let's getet that right so so there's the app I can't really show you but MH that's that's the volume I used to have it right the way over to where the speaker is and now it's it's not even halfway yeah so not the most technical uh thing there doesn't look great but that's never happened you know that so even now that's better than it was even a year ago because it was you know it was full full blast and then it was like 34s and it starting to Edge to sort of halfway and it's only in the last year it's gone to less than half and I used to have to do different things all the time like in the car because the noise of the car um people with hearing aids would get this you know dialogue is not as easy to pick up mechanically you know with amplifiers and that as like car noises or background noises so if I was in the car I'd have to actually take it right down to zero to make it bearable to be in the car so this is like the reverse I can leave it on on the same thing so when I get out of the car I can still hear and what used to happen was I'd have it right down low so the car noise didn't upset me um and then I would get out of the car forget that I'd done that walk into like the petrol station to pay for the gas and oh hang on I've got turn my hearing aids up I can't hear anything well I don't have to do that anymore so you know not a big deal but it but it is a deal uh that is a big difference to me um and you know 11% of adult males uh allegedly have hearing loss so there's probably more people interested in that than you realize so yeah I think for me I've gone from worrying about my heart thinking I've got colon cancer uh thinking that I wouldn't walk by the time I got to 50 to realizing I've been completely and utterly lied to all all my life about training and nutrition and I got to 50 to to realize that you know I need to wake up look at the common sense of what's being told to me I mean even in this Walk of Life if you say something to me I've never heard before I'm not just it's anony it must be true I want to find out I'll find out about it and um you know I think that's that's that's the way I'm living my life and I know I did a jokey thing about you know I'm not going to let my education get in the way of learning new stuff I think that's that's what I love about listening to you and people like kenberry and Zoe harkham you know Kelly Hogan all of sha Baker is I'm open Ben bman and the list is endless you know I just want to keep listening to to everything reading books I also deliberately listen to what the other side is saying because I think we need to know what science they're presenting what they're you know what their take of on things is um you know we're animal lovers right Richard Smith and I did a thing about vegans versus carnivores and and we were saying we love animals I don't hate animals but I I know for a fact that carnivore kills much less uh of the animal kingdom than being a vegan yeah and that's that's something that vegans need to look at and and actually be open to what are they saying only this morning I put something on social media uh which was a picture of some cows in a in a you know Dairy facility I said look I'm a carnivore I hate this picture this is this is awful this video I'm an animal like I want them out in the grass I do not want them uh tethered by the neck with stuff attached to them just milking them constantly in this this atmosphere of boredom I said but you're filling up this thing with the answer is to go vegan well it isn't the answer is to go to the food producers and say let's clean up the whole operation so if you want to be vegan I'm I'm I'm okay with that you want to do that and you have your own reasons but don't pretend that you're not killing animals don't pretend that is the elixir of life and good for health because it's it's it needs supplementation for you to be proper and healthy I don't care if someone thinks that I'm talking out of my ass as long as they've researched it can give me a good reason why I am but they can they never do they just get really personal and I just feel that it's it's something that it's very divisive and that's deliberate the food producers love it because while we're arguing they can get on with their terrible practices they can they can spray gly glyphosate over everything they can let Bill Gates block out the Sun and buy up all the Farmland you know how ridiculous you know so for me it's it's been the best thing I've ever done going carnivore because not only has it made me feel healthy and opened up my mind to you know a lot of things it's opened up my eyes to the entire world and the politics I used to be really upset with Shawn Baker when I first was at me Rx which is now cuz I used to think he talked about politics too much and it's so intertwined the food production the politics uh Pharmaceuticals control of human beings you know it's it's really opened up my mind to um what's really going on and I do put that down to carnivore and I I definitely think a lot of vegans are malnourished and not getting energy to their brain because they can't see it they just can't see it they can't see that animals die to produce veg I grew for it in veg and it was like Fork knocks I killed everything in the vicinity because otherwise I'd have nothing to eat so I've been there um but you see it's it's pernicious isn't it you know all the you know this is bad and methane and it and it gets into people it brainwashes them and we need to say look methane is recycled there's no extra methane if you're into science you understand you can't make methane out of nothing it's it's a cycle it takes 12 years so yeah emissions from a cow you could say if you look at one year there is a problem but there isn't if you do it over 12 years it's a net zero and and and vegans don't even want to listen to basic science you know the water cycle the methane cycle CO2 you know it it's um it's really fired me up actually and I think at 60 I should be maybe you know put getting my pipe in my slippers and sitting by the fire but I just feel I'm going to be more and more active and I can't wait to get to 70 cuz I'm going to be running 100 meters in 10 seconds yeah well I mean yeah it's just it's average after all you know yeah absolutely yeah that's great well Stephen that that was great I really appreciate that that was absolutely wonderful and U I think everyone's going to really really appreciate that you know especially going into all the details about the blood test and things like that because it's something that comes up all the time it's it's a very practical issue that people are rightly concerned about and need to and need to know more about so thank you very much for that um how does everybody find you can you tell us your your channels and social media where people can find more yep uh my website is the UK carnival.com uh I have an app on Apple and Google when you can just type in the carnivore experience uh Richard Smith and I also have a community a school Community SK and that's just called the low carp School um Richard Smith's pretty cool guy so that that's a really nice Community um I have my books on Amazon or I I'll give Anthony links for the ebooks which is my stand store so yeah the UK Carnival or you can look at coach Steven or Steven Thomas Bachelor of Science uh my YouTube channel so yeah there plenty of places to find me perfect we'll put those links up in the description people can can click down there and find your work Stephen thank you so much much it's been a pleasure well it's been an honor thanks for having me on hey guys thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say if you like it then please like And subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcast and if you're on YouTube then please hit that little bell and subscribe and that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out which should be every week if not more and if you can share this with your friends that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing thanks again guys